Hindu Mathematics – How Original Was It?

Re: # 199
Talking about achievement, India is one of the largest nations of underachievers. It shows up among worst in all sorts of rankings related to poverty, literacy, health, sanitation, income, human development etc. etc. So don't let this talk of systematic discrimination against Indian Muslim and their relative poverty and illiteracy go to your head.

On poverty-hunger-index, Pakistan ranks at 45 well ahead of India at 62, and it is included in the medium performing countries. PHI is a new composite indicator – the Poverty and Hunger Index (PHI) – developed to measure countries’ performance towards achieving MDG1 on halving poverty and hunger by 2015. The PHI combines all five official MDG1 indicators, including a) the proportion of population living on less than US$ 1/day, b) poverty gap ratio, c) share of the poorest quintile in national income or consumption, d) prevalence of underweight in children under five years of age, and d) the proportion of population undernourished.

In the context of unprecedented economic growth (9-10 percent annually) and national food security, over 60 percent of Indian children are wasted, stunted, underweight or a combination of the above. As a result, India ranks number 62 along with Bangladesh at 67 in the PHI (Poverty Hunger Index)ranking out of a total of 81 countries. Both nations are included among the low performing countries in progress towards MDG1 (Millennium Development Goals) with countries such as Nepal (number 58), Ethiopia (number 60), or Zimbabwe (number 74).

The World Hunger Index of 88 countries published by IFPRI last year ranked India at 66 while Pakistan was slightly better at 61 and Bangladesh slightly worse at 70.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

#82 Riaz Haq

Looking at your Vedic quotes, I thought here is something worth reading on maths in ancient times in India.

Once again I'm cheated by your Islamic handicap of shouting at nauseum that muslims are best. Please learn something from Budhhism(if you have problems admitting that buddhism is also a hindu- Indian philosophy).In Indian faiths, we're told not to bring down other faiths as you can always learn something and that's how 1 billion learn and live together. If you really want to find things horrible in Indian metpahysical past, there are aplenty. It was nothing like Islam where everyone has to follow the same path. Look for Trantric literature. Its followers will do everything opposite to recommended a life with ascetic values so they get more of money, more of sex ... Like it or not they are also part of Hinduism. You'll definitley enjoy it. However you don't need to mention here. I've plenty from Vedas also on other subjects. Vedas are not Quran. I'm a perfect nastik who have existed since at least 900 BC. A Nastik means lietrally one who does not believe in Vedas. Nobody killed or maimed Nastik Sages. There were aplenty and especially those who contributed to natural sciences.

On your other favourite subject of sanitation; in my village most of the houses have toilets of late but still village elders encourage youngsters to go to fields, like they do themselves, for early morning walk and toilet. Find reasons for yourself. I do not care what you think or shout.

Now if you permit, can we get back to the proposed article. If you really have to talk of your favourite obsession, go to some other thread please. I eagerly look for some good reading. Please others, don't be distracted by these culturly depraved pirates.

196, So u remain a whiner wherever u are. Blame somebody else for under-achievement.

Punjabi Muslim contribution in freedom struggle:

Hanged : Sikhs 93, non-Sikhs 28 i.e 80% of the ppl hanged (in Punjab??) are Sikhs

Imprisoned for life : Sikhs 2147, non-Sikhs 449 i.e 80%

Killed in Jallianwalah bagh: Sikhs 799, non-sikhs 501 i.e 70%

Same source as below.

Conclusion: Muslims tho in majority were on govt rations, under-educated, under-employed, under-everything incl freedom struggle.

Why they were under achievers? Make ur conclusions.

Same applies to Muslims left in India. U conveniently blame Hindus em masse tho there're case of wilful victimisation but that's marginal & well within the range of possible individual and group bias.

Get some education u Pak Worldwide Alumni.

Paki army stooges like Riaz ul haq muat be sent to prison for their role as bhaands of a Jehadi army-


OTHER PROOF FOR 2.4 MILLION HINDUS KILLED IN EAST PAKISTAN

Since the 80 percent of the refugees in 1971 were Hindus,a similar proportion of the dead are likely to be Hindus also. The official Bangla Desh government estimate puts the number of Bengalis killed at 3 million. 80 percent of 3 million put THE NUMBER OF HINDUS KILLED AT 2.4 MILLION which is close to the number of Hindus missing calculated comes above.

SUMMARY & CONCLUSIONS

1. Independent accounts indicate that Hindus from East Pakistan were special target during the 1971 army repression. HINDU HOUSES WERE PAINTED WITH YELLOW "H"s, THEY WERE ROBBED OF THEIR LANDS AND SHOPS, AND THEY WERE SYSTEMATICALLY SLAUGHTERED.

2. 80 percent of the refugees to India in 1971 were Hindus, THUS IT WAS A HINDU REFUGEE PROBLEM.

3. NEARLY 2.5 MILLION HINDUS WERE KILLED DURING THE 9 MONTHS OF PAKISTANI ARMY REPRESSION OF EAST PAKISTAN IN 1971. THUS IT WAS A HINDU SLAUGHTER IN 1971.

Re: # 193
You are making Jinnah's case here for Pakistan, better than any Pakistani could have made it.

But then you are suggesting that Indian Muslims do not deserve any better than they have it now, based on the figures you show about Punjab as being representative of the population of entire India.

Fundamentally, a bigot you are, and a bigot you shall remain!!
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

HINDUS IN EAST PAKISTAN WERE SPECIAL TARGET OF PAK ARMY

In the summary of his report dated November 1, 1971 Senator Edward Kennedy writes (6):

'Field reports to the U.S. Government, countless eye-witness journalistic accounts, reports of International agencies such as World Bank and additional information available to the subcommittee document the reign of terror which grips East Bengal (East Pakistan). HARDEST HIT HAVE BEEN MEMBERS OF THE HINDU COMMUNITY WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF THEIR LANDS AND SHOPS, SYSTEMATICALLY SLAUGHTERED, AND IN SOME PLACES, PAINTED WITH YELLOW PATCHES MARKED "H". All of this has been officially sanctioned, ordered and implemented under martial law from Islamabad. ..' (emphasis added by author of this article).

Sydney Schanberg, pulitzer prize winning journalist (of 'Killing Fields') was New York Times correspondent in Dhaka in 1971 at the time of army repression and during the 1971 Bangla Desh war. In his syndicated column 'The Pakistani Slaughter That Nixon Ignored' Mr.Schanberg writes:

"I covered the war and witnessed first the population's joyous welcome of the Indian soldiers as liberators .. Later I toured the country by road to see the Pakistani legacy firsthand. In town after town there was an execution area where people had been killed by bayonet, bullet and bludgeon. In some towns, executions were held on a daily basis."

This was a month after the war's end (i.e. January 1972), ... human bones were still scattered along many roadsides. Blood stained clothing and tufts of human hair clung to the brush at these killing grounds. Children too young to understand were playing grotesque games with skulls. OTHER REMINDERS WERE THE YELLOW "H"s THE PAKISTANIS HAD PAINTED ON THE HOMES OF HINDUS, PARTICULAR TARGETS OF THE MUSLIM ARMY." (7) (emphasis added by the author of this article).

Thus two independent observations one dated prior to November 1, 1971 and other in January 1972 confirm that Hindu houses in East Pakistan were marked with yellow "H"s and that Hindus were particular targets of the Pakistani army. The situation thus bears an uncanny resemblance to the predicament of Jews targeted by Nazis from 1939 to 1944, with similar out come.

MOST OF THE REFUGEES FROM BANGLA DESH WERE HINDUS

Senator Edward Kennedy in his report gives following details about the the refugees from Bangla Desh in 1971. As of October 25, 1971, 9.54 million refugees from East Pakistan had crossed over to India. The average influx as of October 1971 was 10,645 refugees a day (3). Hence the total refugee population at the start of Bangla Desh war on December 3, 1971 was about 10 million (5).

Sen. Kennedy further mentions that Government of India had set up separate refugee camps for Hindus and Muslims where possible, i.e. refugee camps of Hindus were located in Hindu majority areas and similarly Muslim camps were located in Muslim majority areas. THE COMMUNAL REPRESENTATION OF REFUGEES WAS 80 PERCENT HINDU, 15 PERCENT MUSLIM AND 5 PERCENT CHRISTIAN AND OTHER (8).

This means that 8 MILLION OF THE 10 MILLION REFUGEES WERE HINDUS (8). Other fact that corroborates this is that when Sen. Kennedy had asked several Chief Relief officers in charge of refugee camps what was needed most urgently, their reply was "crematoriums".

THE MISSING 2 .5 MILLION HINDUS

Several agencies indicate that the brutal Pakistani army repression killed 3 million Bengalis. This estimate is even given by the Government of Bangla Desh (5). However no religious mix of the dead is easily available.

Let us therefore look at the population demographics for Bangla Desh which is given in Table I.

TABLE I

Source : Based on Information from Bangladesh Ministry of planning, Bureau of Statistics (9)

YEAR


Total Population in Millions


Hindu Population as % of Total


Hindu Population in Millions

1941


42.00


28.0


11.76

1961


50.84


18 .5


9.41

1974


71.48


13.5*


9.655

1981


87.13


12.2


10.633

* Encyclopedia Britannica (10) gives 13.5% figure for 1974, where as Government of Bangla Desh gives 13.5% for 1971 and total population of 71.48 million for 1974 (9).

Since Hindus and Muslims in Bangladesh have similar socio- economic and educational backgrounds, the birth and death rates for these two groups must be very similar. This means that the Hindu population must grow at the same pace as the total population growth rate. Hence any unusual drop must be accounted for by influx of Hindu refugees and mortality rate from non natural causes. The expected Hindu population, the emigration to India from E. Pakistan and actual populations are listed in Table II.

Table II

YEAR


Hindu Population of East Pak/BD Actual (9)
(millions)


Expected Hindu Population in Absence of Strife
(millions)


Refugees from E. Pakistan to India(8)
(millions)


Hindus Missing
(millions)

1941


11.766


-


-


-

1961


9 .41


14.24


4.12(1947-58)


0.711

1974


9.65


13.23


1.11(1964-70)


2.477

Thus if 1947 partition had not resulted, the Hindu population of East Pakistan area should by 1961 have increased proportionally from 11.76 millions in 1941, to 14.24 millions (11.76 * 50.84 / 42 = 14.24). The official Indian Government records indicate that between 1947 and 1958, 4.12 million (Hindu) refugees crossed into India from East Bengal(3). This means the Hindu population in East Pakistan in 1961 should have been 10.12 million (14.24 - 4.12) compared to the actual 9.41 million. The missing 0.7 million Hindu population can be accounted by several hundred thousands killed in the riots in 1947 on the Bengal border, plus the refugee influx from 1958 to 1961. 1961.

Let us now look at Hindu population in East pakistan from 1961 to 1974. With proportional increase the Hindu population of 9.41 million in 1961 should have increased to 13.23 million ( 9.41 * 71.48 / 50.84 = 13.23 ) by 1974. However the actual Hindu population as per Bangla Desh Census data for 1974 was 9.65 million. Of the 3.58 million shortfall only 1.11 million can be accounted for since Government of India's record indicate that 1.11 million (Hindu) refugees crossed into India between 1964 and 1970 (3) i.e.PRIOR to the 1971 crisis.

THUS 2.47 MILLION (13.23 - 9.65 - 1.11 = 2.47) HINDUS FROM EAST PAKISTAN ARE UNACCOUNTED FOR FROM THE 1971 PAK ARMY REPRESSION.

OTHER PROOF FOR 2.4 MILLION HINDUS KILLED IN EAST PAKISTAN

Since the 80 percent of the refugees in 1971 were Hindus,a similar proportion of the dead are likely to be Hindus also. The official Bangla Desh government estimate puts the number of Bengalis killed at 3 million. 80 percent of 3 million put THE NUMBER OF HINDUS KILLED AT 2.4 MILLION which is close to the number of Hindus missing calculated comes above.

SUMMARY & CONCLUSIONS

1. Independent accounts indicate that Hindus from East Pakistan were special target during the 1971 army repression. HINDU HOUSES WERE PAINTED WITH YELLOW "H"s, THEY WERE ROBBED OF THEIR LANDS AND SHOPS, AND THEY WERE SYSTEMATICALLY SLAUGHTERED.

2. 80 percent of the refugees to India in 1971 were Hindus, THUS IT WAS A HINDU REFUGEE PROBLEM.

3. NEARLY 2.5 MILLION HINDUS WERE KILLED DURING THE 9 MONTHS OF PAKISTANI ARMY REPRESSION OF EAST PAKISTAN IN 1971. THUS IT WAS A HINDU SLAUGHTER IN 1971.

4. ALL THE ABOVE BEAR AN UNCANNY RESEMBLANCE TO THE PERSECUTION & HOLOCAUST OF JEWS BY THE NAZIS.

5. INDIAN GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED 'SECULAR' MEDIA DELIBERATELY HID THE SINISTER TRUTH OF HINDU GENOCIDE IN EAST PAKISTAN.

6. In any internal political problem of an Islamic country, Hindus (or minorities of other religions) become the scapegoats and will be liquidated at the first chance the Islamic Government gets.

7. WE HAVE LEARNT NOTHING FROM THE HISTORY AND WITH THE 'PSECULAR' MEDIA WE WILL LEARN NOTHING.

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Some home truths for the whiners. Do some introspection as to why Muslims lag behind in our region. There's no suppression and discrimination in Muslim-majority Punjab.


In undivided Punjab (pre-47)

Lahore dist:

Muslims were 10.28 millions and they paid land revenue Rs. 82,897/-

Non-Muslims were 6.68 millions & they paid land revenue of Rs. 98,813/-

1. Landholdings 65% non-Muslims the remaining by Muslims

2. Electrical Connections: Muslims 74, 790 a nd non-Muslims 81,525

3. Tax paid for urban immobile property:
Rs. 924, 358 by non-Muslims &
Rs. 396,189 by Muslims

4. Sales Tax :
Rs. 519, 203 by non-Muslims &
Rs. 66,323 by Muslims

5. Out of the 97 banking branches only 7 were run by Muslims.

6. Of the Rs. 100 crore bank deposits only 1 crore belonged to Muslims

7. Out of 215 factories in Lahore 167 were owned by non-Muslims

8. Total investments Rs. 6.05 crores Rs. 4.88 crores by non-Muslims

9. OUT OF 16 COLLEGES ONLY 3 WERE RUN BY MUSLIMS

10. Out of the 40 High Schools only 13 were run by Muslims

11. Candidates appearing for University examinsations only 28.51% were by Muslims.

12. Several Public libraries and hospitals established in the Lahore were by non-Muslims

13. Of the 5332 shops in Greater Lahore 3501 were owned by non-Muslims

14. Of the 80 Insurance offices, only 2 were owned by Muslims

15. Of the 12 Arts & Science colleges in Lahore only 1 was run by Muslims

16. Of the 15 professional colleges, exclusing 3 run by the Govt, all were run by non-Muslims

17. Of the 12 allopathic hospitals NOT EVEN ONE WAS RUN BY MUSLIMS.

18. Rationing enumeration: Muslims (53.9%), Hindus (34%), Sikhs (10%) & others (2%).

Tho being close to 45% Hindus were less on govt rations.

Source: PARTITION OF PUNJAB by Dr. Kirpal Singh (1988)

Riaz, Where did I say India is Shining, U Whiner.

U wanted facts and I gave hints (undivided Punjab, pre-47 Sindh employment, entrepreneurship data) and the present state of Pakistani, Bdeshi Muslims in UK. Why they are in the lowest rung there (unemployed, under-employed and under educated etc.,)?

U cant handle facts, I think. Go ahead and continue with ur randi rona.

Pakistan threatens to kill, rape, and enslave non-Muslims

In accordance to centuries-old Islamic injunctions. "Pakistan Taliban Threatens To Kill, Rape, Non Muslims," by Jawad Mazhar for Worthy News, June 15:

LAHORE, PAKISTAN (Worthy News)-- A loose Pakistan-based umbrella group of factions linked to the militant Taliban organization has threatened to kill or rape all non-Muslims to enslave their children and take away their properties, unless they meet tough conditions.

In a letter, seen by Worthy News Monday, June 15, the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) said non-Muslims should “embrace Islam�, or pay an Islamic tax known as 'Jaziva Tax' [jizya] to Muslim rulers, or leave Pakistan “forever�, if they don't want to be harmed.

Implementing Koran 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And being true to the words of Muhammad: "Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war...When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them....If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."(Sahih Muslim 4294)

“If the infidels rejected this suggestion they would be killed and they would be responsible for it�, wrote TTP leader Muslim Khan.

And, "The women of these disobedient infidels would be enslaved and raped according to [an Islamic ritual] Mut’a," he said.

As for concubinage, Koran 4:3 says, “Marry [i.e., copulate with] such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice, then only one, or what your right hands possess [captive women taken in war].�

Under Mut’a a Muslim man can, in theory, marry a woman for several hours and after having sexual intercourse can divorce again by saying three times "I divorce you". The children conceived would be converted to Islam, enslaved and forced to work for TTP, the group added in the letter.

The letter was received May 27, by residents in the Jafferia Colony neighborhood of Lahore, the capital of the Pakistani province of Punjab...

Re: # 185

Not only do you continue to be personally abusive toward me showing your inability to handle arguments in a civilized manner, you also show your extreme bigotry in abundance by blaming Indian Muslim victims for the consequences of systematic and brutal discrimination in your "secular democracy" aka "Shining India".

Your attitude is no different that that of the racist American southerners or Afrikaners in South African Apartheid regime. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for your despicable behavior. People like you are a terrible blot on your own nation that deserves better.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Paki Jehadi alumni Association has no place to hide its terrorist apologia.....

Paki Alumni Association Jehadi mullahs are part of the jamaat of jehad festering rodents who are part of the starved jehadis who take pride in kidnaping innocent hindu girls for forced and coerced "conversion' so that they can ultimately keep them in their harams-

April 11, 2009
Pakistan: Eighteen Hindu girls kidnapped and "converted" to Islam

One of these girls, after allegedly converting freely and marrying her abductor, was soon thereafter hurled to her death from the third-floor of a building. This story is also revealing of the psychology of kidnappers and ransom-seekers: "Three Hindus were kidnapped in Salih Pat. The kidnappers demanded Rs1.5 million as ransom. When the relatives sold their property to pay the ransom money, the abductors increased the original amount to Rs2.5 million. As the poor relatives were not in a position to pay the ransom, the abductors killed Mahender Kumar on the Hindus’ religious festival (Holi) recently 'as if to present a ‘gift’ to us.'"

"Minority legislator speaks up on kidnappings, conversions," by Imtiaz Ali for The News, April 10:

Increasing incidents of kidnapping of Hindu community members and “conversion� have caused concern in Sindh. Approximately 30 to 35 minority members had been kidnapped; one of them was killed. Seven are still believed to be in the custody of abductors. Around 18 Hindu girls had been converted to Islam; one of them was reportedly killed this year.[...]

KIDNAPPINGS: Three Hindus were kidnapped in Salih Pat. The kidnappers demanded Rs1.5 million as ransom. When the relatives sold their property to pay the ransom money, the abductors increased the original amount to Rs2.5 million. As the poor relatives were not in a position to pay the ransom, the abductors killed Mahender Kumar on the Hindus’ religious festival (Holi) recently “as if to present a ‘gift’ to us,� Sewani said. Two were still in their custody.[...]

RELIGIOUS CONVERSION: Around 18 Hindu girls had been kidnapped and “converted� this year. Some of the events might be the result of love affairs. “We do not have objections over their becoming Muslims but we have objections over the method through which they had been ‘converted’,� Sewani said.

“First they kidnap the girl, marry her and subsequently she is presented before the court. We demand that first, the girl should be kept at a ‘neutral place’ then it should be decided as to whether she had been converted. How we would be convinced that she had not been converted under duress as there are incidents that girls were kidnapped for ulterior motives. One Hindu girl who was reportedly converted and married in Sukkur, was thrown from the third floor of the building on Eid-ul-Azha day and died. Her husband was arrested but later released on bail,� he said..

When are the Paki Alumni Association jehadis stop abduction of hindu girls for forcibly converting to them and keeping them in their harmas forcefully following the footsteps of their Profit??

Hindus protest at 'Muslim abduction'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3039486.stm

About 500 Hindu women in Pakistan's Sindh province have been protesting at what they believe is the abduction of a teenage Hindu girl by a Muslim youth. The unprecedented protest has been taking place in Jacobabad district, about 500 kilometres (350 miles) from Karachi. Hindu leaders told the BBC the protests would continue until Soni - the 16 year-old girl - was found. Soni's father rejected suggestions she had eloped with a local Muslim shopkeeper. Police say that on 26 June, a formal complaint was lodged that Soni, daughter of shopkeeper Ashok Kumar, had been abducted three days earlier by a Muslim. Engaged Head of the Hindu Panchayat in Jacobabad, Babu Mahesh Kumar, said their demonstrations would continue until they knew where the girl was. Ashok Kumar told the BBC his daughter was already engaged to a Hindu and denied reports she had run off with the Muslim man, who is said to have a shop in the area where the Hindu family lives. The investigating officer, Mohammed Akram, told the BBC the Muslim man had gone to Balochistan and police were unable to detain him. A local Hindu leader, Kishan Lal, said this was the fourth case of abduction of a Hindu woman in the district during the last year. He said about 20 women had been abducted throughout Sindh province over the same period. The Hindu population of Sindh is estimated to be more than 400,000. Community leaders allege that the women who are abducted are forced to convert to Islam and marry their captors.

Hindus in Pakistan used a slaves & tortured
www.dawn.com/2003/10/20/local26.htm
HYDERABAD: 13 farmers picked up, tortured: HRCP
Bureau Report

HYDERABAD, Oct 19: The Qasimabad police picked up 13 liberated Haris, including Mannu Bheel, and took them to the police station where they were severely tortured on Sunday. A press release of the Special Task Force, Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Sindh, said that a police mobile of the Qasimabad police station in a raid at the Adal Noonari Goth, Ghanjo Takar, Unit No12, Latifabad, picked up 13 Haris. Their names were ascertained as Mannu Bheel, Mithu Bheel, Rano Bheel, Sawai Bheel, Bai (wife of Mithu Bheel), Panna (wife of Mehru Bheel), Damo Bheel, and Mehru Bheel. The remaining five were children. They were blindfolded before being taken to the police station where they were severely tortured. According to the HRCP, these people were being forced to give a statement that nobody had kidnapped them or rather the family members of Mannu Bheel. However, they refused to give any such statements. Later, they were taken to the Latifabad Unit No8 police station where the DPO, investigation, Pir Fareed Jan Sarhandi, told them that they had been taken into custody "due to some misunderstanding". They were released about 12pm. It may be recalled here that nine family members of Mannu Bheel, including his old parents, wife and children, were kidnapped from Jhuddo on May 2, 1998, by a landlord of Sanghar. FIR No35 of 1998 was registered at the Jhuddo police station regarding it.

Only recently, the Sindh governor, Dr Ishratul Ibad, had directed the regional police officer, Hyderabad, Ghulam Mohammad Malkani, to recover the kidnapped family. The RPO had appointed the DPO, Investigation, Pir Fareed Jan Sarhandi, as inquiry officer. The HRCP press release further said that the SHO, Qasimabad, had told the Haris that they had been taken into custody under the orders of Pir Fareed Jan Sarhandi and they should give a statement that Mannu Bheel's family had never been kidnapped. t will be relevant to point out here that Mannu Bheel has been on hunger strike ever since Jan 19 in protest against the kidnapping of his family members.