Waziristan Operation is a Faux Pas

#119

Dude, you have no clue who I am or what I stand for. Hold a mirror to me?

The PuffedUP Madrassa Alumnus screams from the rooftop as to what he is. He suffers from verbal diahorrea, a terminal case of Foot-in-the-mouth disease.

Does it make me a "Bigot" if I don't buy his snake-oil?

[Sigh] Now be a nice boy and run along. I don't have any more time for you...

#119

Dude are you his mouth piece? Mind your own business.

# 120
The exhalted PuffedUP one...you have anything to refute about that educational institute in the great city of Newark, NJ called NJIT? I think it is a *Fine* school don't you?

Anyhoo, I just checked their website...I see that they mention several distinguished alumni including Wally Schirra the astronaut. They also mention this young Bangladeshi girl who graduated recently and hot a job at a Wall Street firm. I thought that was really nice of them. They also mentioned a Indian guy who opened an on-line wine business and was successful.

I mention the above because, I looked for your name dude -- everywhere -- nothing. Perhaps they are not aware that you claim to have won the "Person of the Year" award from PC magazine in 1988. Being the weekend and all, decided to check it out. I found out that John Crawford was given the award in 1988 for the Intel 80386 chip design.

I am now trying to check through friends at Intel if you worked with John Crawford and if so in what capacity. Rest assured I will report what I find out. So far it does not look good for you. But it won't be long.

I was amazed at what info is available on the net. I now have your address and phone number. :-)

Re: # #116 and 118
CoolAl, Is there any limit to your shameless bigotry and intolerance? Are you totally incapable of a civil discourse?
You bring nothing but shame to the people and religion you purport to represent.

I guess it is hopeless to expect any better from hate-filled low lives like you.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 118

CoolAL,

are you angry with Riaz because he holds the mirror to your face...and punctures your puffed up Hindutvs ego like a pin punctures a balloon...or do you have something else against him?

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Re # 112

pavocavalry, please peruse what a scholar writes about

Amad Shah Abdali:

www.geocities.com/scn_pk/warisshah.html

'Afghan invaders and Waris Shah'

Rejoinder by Brig (R) Haroon Rashid

This is in reference to an article titled “Afghan Invaders and Waris Shah� published in “The Dawn� of 22nd July 2003, (National Pages).

The Article by one "STM" writing under 'Punjabi Themes' abounds in baseless derogatory, incriminating and vituperative remarks, some of which tantamount to naked abuses to the race of Afghans known for their valour and religious pursuits. The irresponsible accusations as under have hurt the feelings of millions -- Afghans and non-Afghans alike.

To quote Waris Shah according to the author:

“Wang Kabuli kuttian gird hoyan dow dow alalhisab laga gayyan.�

A dispassionate perusal of the article, testing its salient points on the litmus of the logical inferences drawn from the relevant historic facts, shall help us in validating or rejecting the author’s acrimonious comments and the accusations of his ‘Sufi’.

Salient Points of the Article in question

1. Nadir Shah Afshar, Ahmad Shah Abdali and his two successors, called ‘Turks’, invaded India under the lame excuse of ‘strengthening the Delhi Rulers against the Sikhs and Marhattas’. Nadir Shah massacred and devastated Delhi.
2. They committed inhuman atrocities on the locals, particularly Ahmad Shah Abdali when the latter invaded the Punjab and defeated Shah Nawaz Khan, the Governor of Lahore.
3. Waris Shah volunteers to join Shah Nawaz Khan against Ahmad Shah Abdali.
4. Ahmad Shah Abdali mercilessly plunders Lahore after defeating Shah Nawaz. His lust for loot was limitless.
5. Waris Shah rejoices over the so-called defeat of Ahmad Shah Abdali at the hands of the so-called Mughals near Delhi.
6. The whole of the Punjab was devastated by the Afghans.

Relevant Historic Facts

The Afghans played a very important role in the medieval history of India. The poverty of the soil, lack of economic and sustenance resources and the struggle for existence made the Afghans to leave their home-land and descend into the plains to sustain themselves. They made their first expedition into India in 705 AD, when their contingent from Khurasan, then under the rule of Abdul Malik Hijjaj bin Yousuf joined Muhammad bin Qasim to Sind (Henry Priestly, “Inhabitants of Afghanistan� p- 25.). In the Punjab the Afghan settlements can be traced as early as 10th century. Most of the Afghans who accompanied Sultan Mahmud of Ghazna and Sultan Shahab-ud-Din Ghori remained behind on the newly acquired land and founded their settlements all over the Punjab and Sirhind (Denzil Ibbetson, “Tribes and Castes of the Punjab" Vol-II & III., also see Rita Joshi “The Role of Afghan Nobles during the Reign of Jahangir�). The country between River Beas and Sutlej was once called the Afghanistan of Punjab (Afghana-i-Hoshiarpur). Subsequently, the Mughals used the Afghans to neutralise the refractory Rajputs.

While describing the historic events I shall only quote and refer to non-Afghan writers and scholars to have an unbiased view of the events.

1. Nadir Shah Afshar belonged to a clan of Tatar tribe which is of Turk origin and has nothing to do with the Afghans (S M Lateef, “History of the Punjab�, 1891, p-194). In fact Nadir Shah was a bitter eliminator of the Afghans. His same obsession became the cause of his invasion of Hind. During his siege of Kandahar a large number of Afghans had fled and took refuge in Hind. Nadir Shah sent his confidential agent, Ali Mardan Khan as ambassador to the Court of Muhammad Shah, the Emperor of India, to prevent the influx of the Afghans to Hind. Nadir Shah was determined to extirpate the whole race of the Afghan fugitives from Ghazni. He requested Emperor Muhammad Shah to expel those Afghans who had already found an asylum in Hind. The Emperor promised to do the needful but due to the Marhatta menace he did not take any concrete measures in this context. Nadir Shah reminded the Emperor three times, but to no avail. Ultimately he decided to invade India. (S M Lateef, “History of the Punjab� p-198-204).

2. Ahmad Shah Abdali, except for his invasion of Punjab when he came to punish the debauch, licentious, and carousal Shah Nawaz Khan who had killed his religious mentor Pir Sabir Shah, had been asked time and again by the local Muslims of the Punjab and Sirhind to protect the latter from the atrocities of the Marhattas and Sikhs. Throughout his life he had been fighting against the latter’s menace to the Muslims of the Punjab. After him even his grandsons had been invited by Tipu Sultan to come to the rescue of the Muslims of Hind. (Mir Hussain Ali Khan Kirmani, “History of Tipu Sultan�, 1864, translated by Colonel W. Miles, p-182). Lack of money and the local intrigues were the main causes why they did not respond to such calls in time. I shall quote two instances out of many of Ahmad Shah Abdali’s struggle against the Sikhs and Marhattas.

a. In 1762, Ahmad Shah Abdali arrived first in Jandialah and then Lahore. The Sikhs fled to Sirhind. With Shah’s presence at Lahore, the Sikhs got slack, thinking that he had no intentions of their pursuit. His sudden withdrawal to Lahore and the rumours that this time he wanted to advance beyond Delhi had made the Sikhs complacent. They did not speedily march into Malwa hills as usual. The Shah soon made them repent their blunder. He had come to know about their presence near Maler Kotla. He sallied out from Lahore at the head of his troops with utmost precaution and secrecy. He, covering a distance of 150 miles in about 36 hours, caught the Sikhs unaware and unprepared near Kot Rohera. Joined by the Afghan chiefs of Maler Kotla, Ahmad Shah on 5th May 1762 cut their route of retreat and surrounded them from all sides. Suddenly a panic seized them and general stampede followed. In the evening when Afghans stopped at a pond to water their horses, the Sikhs availed the opportunity. They fled towards Hariana and Barnala leaving behind about thirty thousands dead. Historians variously estimate the Sikh’s casualties from 12000 to 30,000. The survivors were wounded to a man. Tahmas Khan a servant to Mir Mannu and author of “Tahmas Nama,� who took part in the battle, places the Sikh dead at 25000 while Rattan Singh was told by his father a figure of 30,000. 5th May 1762 is remembered as `Bada Ghallughara' or the biggest holocaust in the Sikh History. Views of various non-Afghan writers are given below:-
i. “Tarikh-i-Ahmadi�, as quoted by S M Lateef, the Sikhs suffered 30,000 killed.
ii. Captain Murray, it did not exceed 12,000.
iii. Rai Kanhia Lal, the Sikhs killed numbered about 24,000 men.
iv. Sir John Malcolm, the Sikhs lost more than 24,000 men.
v. Arjan Das Malik, places the Sikh dead at 25000.

In the absence of Ahmad Shah Abdali from the Punjab, whenever the Sikhs got an opportunity they literally devastated the whole country, subjected the Muslims to many outrages, indignities, and hardships. They committed sacrilegious outrages to the Muslim mosques and shrines. On one occasion they chopped off ears and noses of all Muslim butchers of Lahore and expelled them from there. (See S. M. Lateef, “History of the Punjab�, 1891, p- 285-6).

b. As for the Marhattas are concerned the Third Battle of Panipat is the biggest proof of Ahmad Shah Abdali’s desire to liberate the Muslims of
Sirhind and Punjab from the Marhatta’s clutches. The incident on which Waris Shah rejoices is the massacre of a small Afghan contingent at Delhi at the hands of Sooraj Mal Jat and not the Mughals. The Marhattas army easily occupied Delhi where the small Durrani contingent that held it was cut to pieces after a spirited defence. Kanjpura on the banks of Jamuna River, sixty miles to the north of Delhi, was next besieged and the whole Afghan garrison was killed (Also see Syed Altaf Ali Brelvi, Life of Hafiz Rahmat Khan p-108-9). Ahmad Shah was encamped on the left bank of the Jamuna River, which was swollen by rains. The massacre of the Kanjpura garrison, within the sight of the Durrani camp, exasperated him to such an extent that he ordered crossing of the river at all costs. S M Lateef, “History of the Punjab�, p-235, quotes "Tarikh-i-Ahmadi", and writes:

“The Shah is said to have recited some verses of the Holy Quran, and, having blown them on an arrow, discharged from his quiver into the river. Raising then the cry “Bismillah-i-Allah-o- Akbar� meaning, ‘in the name of God the great God’ he plunged into the river, followed by his bodyguards and the troops.�

The Durranis crossed the Jamuna on 23rd October. Ahmad Shah, along with other Afghan chiefs of Hind, rushed to punish Marhattas. The Afghans caught the advance guard of Marhatta army at Sarai Sanbhalak (For more detail see S. Altaf Ali Brelvi “Life of Hafiz Rahmat Khan�,p-107-28). The Marhattas retired to Panipat. The Marhatta force consisted of 300,000 men, including 55,000 Marhatta Cavalry, and had three hundred pieces of cannon The “Gul-i-Rahmat� and the “Tarikh-i-Najibabad� by Akbar Shah Khan give the number of the Marhatta forces at three lacs. In local tales common among the people of Panipat the number is raised to nine lacs, which seems an exaggeration.

Ahmad Shah had 40,000 Afghans and Persians, 13,000 Indian Afghan cavalry and 38,000 Indian Afghan infantry, with 70 pieces of cannon borrowed from the Indian allies. According to the best accounts the number of Marhattas slain numbered to about 200,000, while 22,000 prisoners, 50,000 horses and an immense booty fell into the hands of the victors. News of the defeat flashed throughout India, couched in this code: “Two pearls have been dissolved, twenty-seven gold ‘mohurs’ have been lost, and of the silver and copper total cannot be cast up�.(Lieutenant General Sir G. Macmunn, “Afghanistan –From Darius to Amanullah, p-70.)

The Marhatta Peshwa or the king died of despondency. They retired beyond Narbada, never to recover their power. Rudyard Kipling in poem “With Scindia to Delhi� wrote:

“The children of the hills of the Khost before our lances ran,
We drove the black Rohillas back as cattle to pen.
It was then we needed Mulhar Rao to end what we began,
A thousand men had saved the charge; he fled the field with ten,
I held by Scindia, my lord, as close as man might be;
A Soobah of the Deccan asks no aid to guard its life;
But Holkar’s horse were flying and our chiefest chiefs were cold,
And like a flame among us leaped the long lean Northern knife.�

3. About Ahmad Shah Durrani, S M Lateef writes,

“After the victory at Panipat, the whole of Hindustan lay at the mercy of the Abdali conqueror. But he had no wish to ascend the vacant throne of the Mughals; so after remaining at Delhi for a few days and arranging the affairs of India, he returned to Punjab, which had already been ceded to him, and with which he appeared contented.�

4. Abdul Karim Alvi, the historian, narrates an interesting conversation here. When Mir Mannu presented himself before Ahmad Shah, the latter sarcastically asked him, “How is it that you did not present yourself before the threshold of your lord before this to do him homage?� “Because�, replied Mir Mannu, “I had another lord to serve.� “And why,� rejoined the Shah satirically, “ did not your lord and master succour you at this moment of your distress?� “Because,� answered Mannu boldly, “he was sure that his servant would take care of himself�. “And supposing,� continued the Shah, “I had fallen in your hands, what treatment would you have shown to me?� “I should have severed your majesty’s head from your body and sent it to my king�, was the reply. “And now that you are at my mercy, what do you expect of me�? “If you are a merchant,� said Mannu,� sell me: if executioner and tyrant, cut off my head: but if you are a king show me kingly generosity and pardon my life.� The Shah was pleased with the dauntless spirit of the youth, and conferred upon him the title of ‘Farzand Khan Bahadur Rustam-i- Hind’.

5. Mountstuart Elphinstone wrote about Ahmad Shah Abdali:

"His military courage and activity are spoken of with admiration, both by his own subjects and the nations with whom he was engaged, either in wars or alliances. He seems to have been naturally disposed to mildness and clemency and though it is impossible to acquire sovereign power and perhaps, in Asia, to maintain it, without crimes; yet the memory of no eastern prince is stained with fewer acts of cruelty and injustice."

"… He treated Moollahs and holy men with great respect, both from policy and inclination. He was himself a divine and an author and was always ambitious of the character of a saint. (“Account of the Kingdom of Caubul� 1815)

7. Ahmad Shah Abdali was a distinguished warrior, religious, generous and a kind-hearted king. He was a true Muslim and never believed in pomp and show of the royal courts. Unlike his contemporary kings and rajas, he did not even have a crown. His devotion to Islam further added to his simplicity and service to God. Being an accomplished poet and writer himself, he once wrote:

“I capture every province with the aid of God; It is with his help that I go everywhere without failure. Yet I, Ahmad, consider the world worthless and unimportant. I shall leave the world behind and go the next, armed only with my faith.�

Inferences Drawn

1. Nadir Shah Afshar was a Tatar and not an Afghan, hence Ahmad Shah and his two successors nor any other Afghan could be held responsible for the deeds of the former.
2. Surprisingly the author and his Sufi does not say any thing about the brutalities of the Sikhs and Marhattas on the Muslims of the Punjab, rather rejoice over the massacre of a small Muslim Afghan garrison in the Delhi Fort and Kanjpura. Furthermore, they are ignorant of the complete victory of the Afghans over the Marhattas, which is worldwide accepted and appreciated as a classic strategy of the Afghans against a force many time superior to them in men and material.
3. The pages of history bear out that Ahmad Shah Abdali was a kind-hearted person, prone to clemency and forgiveness. He spent his life in chasing the
Sikhs and the Marhattas so that Muslims of the Punjab and Sirhind could live in peace.
4. There is no evidence that Ahmad Shah Abdali ever looted the Muslims of Punjab or elsewhere for whose protection he used to come from Kabul and Kandahar.
5. There was no dearth of Muslims in the Punjab and Sirhind, yet they looked for the Afghans to shield them against the Sikhs. Certainly the Afghans were not super human beings, nevertheless, the trust reposed in them by the former clearly shows the Afghans’ gallantry, chivalry, the will to fight for their co-religionists, the acumen to administer the conquered territories, and perseverance and steadfastness to bear the hardships of war and weather for their Muslim brothers in the Punjab.
6. I have not been able to find the answers as to why:
a. Waris Shah should rejoice on the massacre of the Afghans who, according to the author, had been invited by Shah Waliullah of Delhi and fought for the Muslims.
b. Waris Shah should call the Afghans ‘the thieves’; a thief steals, while the Afghans were the conquerors and could get any thing by force if they wanted to.
c. Waris Shah and the author should close their eyes to the Sikhs’ ‘Satnami Movement’, their atrocities committed on the Muslims in Lahore and elsewhere and as reported by many historians of the time.
d. Waris Shah should abuse the proud race of the Afghans as ‘Kabuli Kuttian’
e. Waris Shah should join a debauch, who had Hindu and Sikh keeps, a licentious and a pervert, a killer of a religious and pious man, and fight a Muslim who came to punish such an enemy of Islam.

The only thing that comes to my mind is “Birds of a feather flock together.�

Brig (R) Haroon Rashid
The writer is a scholar and author of the ten-volume book collection ‘History of the Pathans’ (2002)

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Re: # 112

Agha Amin...of course...#98 and #111 are Pashtuns point of experiencing it...#112 is the Hindu/Marhatan...third is the British, Mountstuart Elphinstone, who wrote of Ahmad Shah:

“His military courage and activity are spoken of with admiration, both by his own subjects and the nations with whom he was engaged, either in wars or alliances. He seems to have been naturally disposed to mildness and clemency and though it is impossible to acquire sovereign power and perhaps, in Asia, to maintain it, without crimes; yet the memory of no eastern prince is stained with fewer acts of cruelty and injustice."

Re: # 113
Pavo,

I gave you the view of Yoichi Shimatsu, an independent outsider, a respected editor of Tokyo-based Japan Times, who has no ax to grind and knows the Indi-Pakistan issues and LeT well.

I know you have your own biases and your mind is made up. So I don't expect you or your kind to pay heed to anything that conflicts with your own pre-conceived notions, which I consider completely misguided and dangerous for the entire region.

But regardless of your own myopic thinking, there is clear realization in the world, particularly in the Obama administration and European leaders, that Kashmir can not be allowed to fester for too long, as evident from the recent William Burns statement in New Delhi. Burns said earlier this momth, “It remains our view that the resolution (of Kashmir by India and Pakistan) will have to take into account the views of the Kashmiri people.�

Until there is a resolution of Kashmir issue to the satisfaction of all parties, there will be more attacks like the Mumbai and parliament attacks, even if Pak government tries to crush LeT and other Kashmir groups. Radicalization will intensify on both sides of the border, making a nuclear confrontation a real possibility. As Stephen Cohen recently said, "Not a few Indian generals and strategists have told me that if only America would strip Pakistan of its nuclear weapons then the Indian army could destroy the Pakistan army and the whole thing would be over. This of course is both silly and dangerous—and could lead to a catastrophic misjudgment when the fifth India-Pakistan crisis does come. We were close to one last year, I have no doubt that the people who tried to trigger a new India-Pakistan war will try again."

I hope the "New Delhi's institutional inertia against Kashmir talks" as Yoichi Shimatsu puts it will not lead to mutually assured destruction in the Subcontinent.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

this is to clear the lies and utter b______t being stated by characters like riaz haq about kargil.

there was no let at kargil.all regulars and disgrace musharraf abandoned them:--

Kargil-A Military AnalysisPosted: Feb 16, 2008 Sat 07:12 am Views: 392 Interacts: 0
Kargil-A Military Analysis

15 June 2003

A.H Amin





Kargil stands as perhaps the final military effort on Pakistans part to settle the Kashmir dispute by military means.

Analysis has mostly centred around political aspects of the operation while the military aspects have been largely left to the imagination of the public.Lately it has been claimed that Kargil was launched to bail out Mujahideen as a last resort ! This is an insult to the memory of the Pakistani armed forces "Volunteers" who died in that Himalayan wasteland without a funeral and in circumstances of unimaginable misery !

Kargil operation cannot be understood unless the personalities and motives of the principal characters are examined ! Every action in history is the final culmination of a personality's self perception,ambition and subconscious as well as conscious urges.

In this context the Kargil operation was born out of two key factors ! One was the personality of general Pervez Musharraf and the second was the unceremonial manner in which Nawaz Sharif ousted General Jahangir Karamat Musharraf's predecessor army chief of Pakistan Army.

Musharraf as those who have served with him know which includes this scribe also has always been an intensely ambitious man ! One hallmark of his personality is that he wants to stand out as a great military commander ! Propelled by an enormous ego wherever he served he endeavoured to do something extraordinary ! However fate did not allow him the glory in battle which his other coursemates like shabbir sharif achieved ! In 1965 Musharraf was a subaltern in an artillery unit which saw little action apart from supporting operatiions by indirect fire ! The 16 SP unlike 3 SP which fired on Indian tanks with direct gunsights at Chawinda stayed in conventional artillery role ! In 1971 Musharrafs commando company was not involved in action ! Nevertheless Musharraf compensated for this lack of combat laurels by achieving laurels in army courses and in various command assignments ! His final opportunity came when he ascended to the post of army chief in a situation when the army was in a subservient position vis a vis the civilian head of state , something which was regarded by the military herarchy as worse than blasphemy !

The forced retirement of General Karamat by prime minister Nawaz Sharif was regarded as a personal defeat by the Pakistani military brass and by Musharraf who felt that he would be a far weaker army chief under a strong prime minister who had asserted civilian control over the military machine !

These two factors were the fathers of the Kargil operation ! Ambition accompanied by a perception that the Pakistani public must be convinced that the soldiers were better than politicians.

Kargil at the military level was the brainchild of three men i.e General Musharraf the army chief ,Aziz the then army Chief of general Staff and Mahmud the then corps commander 10 Corps ! Musharraf and Mahmud were motivated by intense ambition to achieve military glory and Aziz was motivated by his Kashmiri ancestry plus military ambition.The person they selected to execute the operation was again one distinguished by out of proportion ambition i.e Major General Javed Hassan , author of a book in 1990s that claimed that India was on its way to disintegration and in which mughal king Humayun was resurrected from the grave to fight at Second Battle of Panipat !

In November December 1998 just one month after Musharraf's elevation to the post of army chief volunteers were asked for at the army level for an operation in Kashmir ! Many thousand volunteered including both officers and men from various units !

At no stage did any Mujahideen enter Kargil ! This is a piece of fiction and has no veracity !



These were attached to NLI units in the 80 Brigade sector for training.The principal idea of the plan was to infiltrate four battalions of NLI (Northern light Infantry) stationed in 80 Brigade Sector into Kargil Heights overlooking and dominating the Srinagar Ladakh road the lone Indian link with the Siachen and Leh Sectors ! The idea being to cut the lifeline of Indian supplies to Leh and Siachen Sectors ! Indian held heights in Kargil were to be occupied in February 1999 while Indian infantry had abandoned these heights at the approach of winter snow as an annual routine since 1948.In occupying the heights no fighting was involved ! The real issue was that of supplying Pakistani troops holding these heights which was far more difficult from the Pakistani side than from the Indian side !

Plans were kept secret and even the Commander 10 Corps Engineers of was not allowed to enter the Operations Room in 10 Corps Pindi.

The distance involved in reaching the heights varied from 15 to 35 kilometres from Pakistan side over mountains as high as 13 to 19,000 feet .To do this each battalion was divided into two parts , one acting as porters taking supplies forward and one half occupying the heights .

The heights were occupied as per the plan but the four units while doing so were severly exhausted ! In March-April the Indians discovered the Pakistani presence and reacted severely ! Severe fighting continued till July once the Indians finally re-captured the heights after Pakistani troops had been left to the mercy of Indian artillery and overwhelming troop concentrations as a result of the Blair House Accord !

A brief military examination of the plan reveals following weaknesses.(1) Failure to assess strategic repercussions of the operation at geopolitic and national strategic level .(2) Logistic failure in incorrect appreciation of supplying the troops . (3) Failure to understand that by occupying the heights the Indians were driven into a corner and had no choice but to retaliate , not for glory as was the Pakistani military's case but for pure military survival . (4) At a more subtle level the use of the Chora-Batalik Sector as a future spring board for Pakistani operations against India was sealed since Indians heavily fortified this sector for any future war.

The Pakistani planners failed to assess that war as an instrument of policy is no longer in vogue at the international level and their temporary military success would only bring greater international censure and a negative war mongering image without any corresponding military gain at the strategic level.

This scribe interviewed a former commander of FCNA and 10 Corps about logistics and General Imtiaz Warraich replied as following :--

" We initiated this operation but failed to support it with comprehensive operational planning and above all buildup for essential logistic support without which no operation can succeed"......'" the principal reason for our heavy casualties and lack of progress was unimaginative and callous logistic operations to support the units".

At one point the sepoys who had volunteered to fight and had come from many other infantry units to the NLI units refused to act as porters carrying supplies over 15 kilometres and were so exasperated that they defied Javed Hassan's personal orders in unit durbars to carry supplies and when Javed Hassn threw his cap on the ground threatened to march over it unless they were not employed as porters ! One such volunteer told this scribe that we had volunteered to fight ,not to act as porters ! The same fact was also mentioned in ISI chief Ziauddin Butt's secret report to Nawaz Sharif prepared by an Engineer officer on Zia's staff in ISI !

The failure to assess the "Enemy" factor was another strategic planning failure at the highest level .I asked General Warraich this question and he stated " Capture of Kargil Heights would totally stop all Indian movement to Leh and Ladakh Sectors unlike Pakistan in Siachen and Indians had no option but to do and die " !

Lust for glory and honour in battle are perfectly reasonable aspirations as long as they are accompanied by commensurate military talent in the generals who are at the helm of affairs ! This was sadly lacking in the Musharraf team who planned the operation. Their egos were many times larger than their real military talent !

By promoting an intensely ambitious man to the rank of army chief Nawaz did a favour which could only be repaid by betrayal ! The plan was based not on sound military reasoning but on burning ambition and an unrealistic desire for glory by men far away from the heat of battle ! No one above major level died , yet in a report to the military secretarys branch Javed Hassan recommended retiring 75 % of officers involved in the operation below colonel level !

The prime minister was not fully briefed because of ulterior motives ! Had the operation succeeded it would have been projected as a proof of Musharraf's Napoleonic brilliance and if it failed as it did Nawaz Sharif would have been made the scapegoat !

The operations planners were distinguished neither by loftiness of thought,nor audacity in the conduct of battle athe operational or strategic level.Thus boldness at tactiacl level was sacrificed because of operational and tactical timidity at the highest level.

No one appreciated that the army men who were employed , and it is a fiction that there was a single Mujahid in Kargil , had flesha nd blood ! These men mourned by a few hundred families were sons husbands fathers and brothers !

The Kargil operation at the military level is a watershed ! Idealism that propelled many hundred to die in those Himalayan wastes is buried for good ! Now there is a new breed which dominates the army ! The ones who aim at going on lush UN secondments or to KESC,WAPDA or as well paid consulatants !

What can one conclude ! It was the human heart that failed in Kargil and this heart which failed was housed in the ribcage of men sitting in the GHQ and not on the rocky pinnacles of Kargil ! Once the supply lines were closed under Indian threat of a counter attack , these brave men all Pakistan Army regulars were abandoned to die , pounded by artillery fire , bayoneted by overwhelming numbers , weakened by starvation ! Who can hear their cries ! Our ears are covered with heaps of lies ! Truth died at Kargil ! What remains is a body guard of lies!

Agha Amin

note on ahmad shah abdali and durranis:--

1-while ghilzais were the real liberators of afghanistan the abdalis were collaborators of persians.
2-ahmad shah abdalis golden moment was when his master nadir shah afshar was assasinated and he bolted away with the persian treasure.
3-defeated by mughal emperor mohammad shah rangeela at sirhind in 1748.
4-looted delhi many times in between 1749 and 1761.mir and sauda have written numerable poems on his style of looting.defeated the marathas in 1761 not because they were a danger to muslims but because the marathas had begun expanding into punjab and he perceived them as a long term threat to afghanistan.
5-looted punjab many times.
6-confirmed many sikh chiefs on his line of communication from lahore to karnal as chiefs of states of jind ,patiala,kapurthala,farid kot etc so that they should not loot his loot rom delhi.

a great pashtun hero no doubt.

his lifes best biography is by ganda singh.
--------------------------------------------------

SHAH GARDI:--

1-17 JANUARY TO 22 FEBRUARY 1757:--

timur shah son of ahmad shah married to mughal emperor alamgir 2 daughter--100 wives of wazeer intizamuddaulah carried back by ahmad shah--all houses in delhi numbered and tax imposed on each.thousands of women raped

2-31 MARCH 1757 TO 10 APRIL 1757

durrani again sacked delhi--married 16 year daughter of emperor mohammad shah--handsome boys and pretty girls seized and taken to afghanistan--head of naqshbandi family has left a detailed account available in national archives india and at india office library london

3-14 TO 27 JANUARY 1760

delhi again looted and raped--mir dard has left a detailed account

4-29 FEBRUARY -23 MARCH 1760

delhi again looted by abdali.tahmas khan miskin has left a detailed account

5-29 JANUARY 1761 TO 22 MARCH 1761

after defeating marathas at panipat , to recover the costs of war delhi again subjected to loot and raoe by abdali

THIS IS NOT CRITICISM AT ALL.

THIS IS HOW BUSINESS WAS DONE THEN.


Agha Amin

Ahmad Shah Abdalii's Life

Ahmad Shah Abdali was devoutly religious, and wanted to honor God and his instructions, according to his Muslim faith. He was knowledgeable in religion, and Sufism held great influence in his life. He followed two great religious leaders, Shah Fuqirullah of Jalalabad and Mian Mohammad Omar of Peshawar. It is said that some 17,500 followers of Mian Mohammad Omar Sufi aided Ahmad Shah's army in the famous Panipat battle near Delhi, India, as did warriors from almost every Pashtun tribe, bringing them victory.

Ahmad Shah Durrani firmly believed in Pashtun ways and promoted Afghan family character. During his reign, building national unity was stressed to such a degree that tribal feuds gradually and steadily faded. His policies stressed equality, and freedom for individuals were expanded. Friendship treaties were formulated with neighboring states based upon the principle that freedom is a natural right of all races.

Ahmad Shah Abdali steadfastly supported the Pashtun code of honor, customs and characters under the essence of Islam. The Afghan ruler accepted other cultures by inviting the right to coexist in the land of Afghans free of any discrimination. His only terms were that others should appreciate Afghans and be no threat to their independence.

Ahmad Shah was not only a heroic warrior but also an elegant and charming poet. His poetry and prose are classics with political, religious, humanitarian and national overtones.

Ahmad Shah wrote tender, powerful, simple, and sensitive poetry. Like other oriental poets, his poetry speaks of grief, satire, bitterness, joy, reverence and humility. Ahmad Shah wrote some 2,500 poems.

A compilation of Ahmaed Shah's Diwan exists, as compiled by Professor Habibi. The book is a monumental volume of magnificent poetry and prose Ahmad Shah wrote in his native mother tongue, Pashtu.

The well-known nineteenth-century thinker, Sayyed Jamaluddin Afghani writes in his famous book, Tetmat-al-bayan fi Tarikh-al-Afghan, (published in Arabic) that Ahmad Shah took great interest in all his tribes and considered them all for strengthening national unity. He gave equal attention to all of them. He formed a nine-member council that represented each tribe from around the country for the purpose of advising him in all affairs. The council was powerful and heard in all matters pertaining to the country and building and maintaining national unity.

Ahmad Shah was famous for being a just and fair leader. It is said that during his reign a lion and deer could live together and drink from the same well. During Ahmad Shah's reign there were administrative posts such as First Minister, Finance Minister, Controller, Tax and Revenue Minister, Chief Justice, Chief of Army, Minister of Defense, Interior Minister, ambassadors and others.

Historian Ghobar writes in Persian that Ahmad Shah Abdali predominantly spent his life with the sword, gun, battles and politics. His character and morals were supreme.

The public considered him a high religious personality. He advised his sons to treat criminals with respect and not to look down upon them. He taught his children not to bow their heads or backs during greetings. They were also encouraged to stay in contact with the learned and prominent.

English Colonel Milson writes that Ahmad Shah Durrani was constantly in contact with all his tribal people and their leaders. He sought their opinions in all national matters and followed Afghan traditions with keen interest. Milson witnesses that Ahmad Shah expressed to his nation, "I am your King. My duty is to keep you independent, preserve your pride and dignity, and to secure your prosperity and unity."

Re: # 108

The simplest way to interprett an american leader is to take the opposite meaning of what he/she said.

Certainly this is surgical operation which has no other option left.taliban cancer of terrorism must need this operation.Pains of this operation should be tolerate because all medicated agreements and negotiation had failed.
This is need for survival of nation.

Re: # 107
Hersh has categorically rejected the rumor about Cheney's involvement in BB murder. Dawn published its retraction weeks ago.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Waziristan Operation-Coverup for Benazir ?

It is possible that waziristan operation is a coverup for benazir assasination.

Its quite clear after seymour hershs revelations and siskinds book the way of the world that Benazirs murder could have been the handiwork of a special assasination squad organised by Dick Cheney and professional assasin General Mc Crystal now commanding US forces in Afghanistan.

On the other hand one obscure Mehsud commander has suddenly emerged who accuses baitulla of benazirs murder.

It appears that baitullah is the bad dog for the whole benazir affair.blame baitullah and get over the affair.

what a tragedy.

one is at a loss to understand what the much trumpeted waziristan operation will achieve.

its a sheer wastage of pakistan airforce bombs and expensive cobra helicopter rockets each costing in between a 50,000 USD tp half a million USD per bomb or rocket,while baitullah conveniently relaxes in birmal in paktika province in afghanistan.


Waziristan a cover up that suits all including pakistani politicians and americans.

an undoubted failure no doubt.

Agha Amin