A Prescription for the BJP's Revival

Re: # 563
You support for a feudal democracy translated into the ultimate oppression and extreme contempt for the poor.

Your hatred of Musharraf is based on your misguided idealism for democracy that is resulting in the quiet violence against millions of rural Pakistanis on a daily basis.

Economic of of less than the population growth is the real disaster you are ignoring in your ode to Pak democracy in the current situation.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 562
Mr. Haq
You praise General Musharraf for being secular and you prescribe less freedom of information. You find Musharraf's economic achievements laudable but you do not like the growth of the selfish middle-class. Do you notice the inherent flaw in your line of thinking?
You present your deep information of the intelligence sources by telling us that Mujib, Indira Gandhi and Bhutto broke Pakistan without mentioning the treachery perpetrated by the so-called federation of Pakistan and the mass murders and rape of innocent bengalis committed by Pakistan army. You think that the people are misguided and ignorant when they vote to remedy their misery. You sound like somebody at a great distance from reality in Pakistan. Your contempt for the common man is borrowed from the British goras who ruled India. There is a saying " Angrez left but the left their off-springs".

Re: # 559
malik, you are repeating the half-truths that are often used to justify feudal democracy in Pakistan by Pak liberals and pseudo intellectuals.

1971 debacle was the result of an election where Bhutto and Mujib were elected by ignorant, misguided people who voted along regional/feudal/ethnic lines. This election strengthened the hands of these politicians who engineered the breakup of the country with India's help for the sake of gaining power.

You should read and understand a lot of classified stuff that has now been documented about the treachery of Mujib and selfishness of Bhutto and opportunism by Indira Gandhi, the three main culprits of collapse of Pakistani state.

I do agree that Zia was a bad dictator who brought ruin to Pakistan by aligning himself with the Mullahs and used US help to perpetuate his own power. Zia also left the legacy of Sharif and Bhutto who were extremely corrupt and incompetent. Sharif was clearly groomed by Zia and he is a creature of Zia's military. Had Zia not killed Bhutto, the PPP would not have rebounded as it did. Instead of killing Bhutto, Zia should have killed the feudal system to emasculate the PPP.

But Mushraraf did a great job of reviving the moribund Pak economy after the lost decade of the 90s which was characterized by massive misrule by Bhutto and Sharif in the name of democracy. His economic liberalization was a brilliant move that brought tons of foreign investment, created millions of jobs and helped Pakistan achieve very high economic growth rates.

Musharraf's real mistake was that he was too benevolent in liberalizing and proliferating the media and aligning himself with the Chaudhrys. That's what led to his downfall, when he as unable to control the chaos on the streets unleashed by the media that he helped create.

Musharraf was the most secular Pak leader who emerged from the middle class and he tried to control the Mullahs the best he could. And he significantly expanded the middle class that also contributed to his downfall because the selfish middle class cares more for its right to protest that for the poor people's right to jobs and bread.

The real conflict in Pakistan comes from the fact that we have the vast majority of the people at the lowest levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs who are stuck under the terrible feudal system, while about 10-20% are at higher levels seeking personal liberties and political rights and are willing to accept a feudal democracy in return.

And because of the Western obsession with democracy and pressure on Pakistan, the 10-20% end up getting their wish at the expense of 80-90% who remain stuck in slavery under their feudal/tribal masters.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Riaz.....good for you...you are only one in the world who can understand this phenomena.

Go for it tiger(T)

Re: # 556
These poor misguided souls you talk about, and their victims are obviously a problem for the world and for Pakistan, but their impact is considerably less than the preventable but quiet violence of poverty, disease and hunger that takes place in India and other parts of the world without getting headlines on a daily basis. For example, 1000 Indian children dead everyday from diarrhea alone does not make headlines, but a few city folks killed by terrorists is guaranteed to feed the corporate-owned media frenzy.

The 24X7 news cycle only focuses on the exceptions rather than the norm. The tabloid reporting by the proliferating cable/satellite channels distorts the reality of the situation by taking away attention from the much bigger threat of poverty hunger in places like India and sub-Saharan Africa.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 558
There is the educated middle-class of Pakistan and the poor. Do you think they could participate in the decisions that affect their lives? Please tell me about the strength of the economy these dictators built after killing all dissenting voices. After the great rise of Ayub came the gravest debacle of 1971. After Zia, Pakistan was economically on the brink and after Musharraf, Pakistan is on the verge of extinction. Baloch want secession. There is a war in Pakhtunistan. The economic stability of Musharraf era was poisoned by the the insecurity and instability the military leadership created. Military has only one option in Pakistan. They must withdraw from their encroached political and economic positions. Lands rewarded to the military and those owned by the feudal lords must be allocated to the rural poor.

Re: # 557
Military rule is never ideal. It has a lot of flaws. But you have to put in context of the alternatives in Pakistan.

Feudals are far more corrupt and incompetent than the military folks, and unlike the military, they have absolutely no real empathy and connection with the poor and the middle class, other than to be their masters.

Regardless of the spin you hear, the facts and the data amply demonstrate that Pakistan has experienced real and accelerated economic growth under military than under civilian feudal rule.

The interruption of the military rule has always brought disaster in Pakistan because the feudal politicians have created tremendous chaos, first by violent protests on the streets that mainly hurt the poor, and then by their horrible misrule that hurts everybody.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 552
Have you seen the 33 years of military rule or misrule? State of governance is miserable. There are no civil institutions in Pakistan. The feudals and the clergy are manifestations of military power, so are the ethno-fascists. The climate of extremism, extreme poverty and lack of security did not happen in few months of civilian rule. Pakistan military involved in the conquest of Kabul and other over-reaching militarism which brought Pakistan to the brink of another disaster after 1971. The size of the military should be reduced drastically in the next few years so Pakistanis could see some government focus on the issues concerning them.

Re: # 553 Riaz, mian, you should first think of the opoor souls being sent by your kind, ilk, relatives to kill and kill others.

these poor boys are sold for a few dollars to kill across the world all in the name of the religion you hold dear.

You should be ashamed of it and forget the Indians for a moment.

get over the fact that you are a used condom(T)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

The UN estimates that 2.1 million Indian children die before reaching the age of 5 every year – four every minute - mostly from preventable illnesses such as diarrhoea, typhoid, malaria, measles and pneumonia. Every day, 1,000 Indian children die because of diarrhoea alone.

http://motherchildnutrition.org/india/index.html
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 551
Count all the dead from hunger and malnutrition (currently 2 million children die each year from hunger in India) and you'll end up with more than 100 million dead in Shining India.

Many more die each year from disease due to lack of basic sanitation.

Many remain illiterate and unable to make a living and live in deep poverty and squalor in Shining India.

But, as I have said before, there is no human right more fundamental than the right to food, which is lacking in India.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 548
Just as individuals have to make choices, nations too have to choose from the various options available to them.

There are three power centers in Pakistan: Feudal/Tribal chiefs, military and clergy.

Feudal/tribal chiefs literally "own" the rural poor who live on their vast tracts of farm land. And since the rural poor make up more than half the population, they vote for their masters to rule in a "democracy". These feudals are selfish, incompetent and corrupt. They are mainly interested in maintaining the feudal system that guarantees their power over their people.

The clergy are not too different from the feudals. They have no economic agenda other than to enrich themselves. They fear a well-educated population that will ignore them and hurt their business. So they keep preaching the most retrogressive version of Islam to maintain their own power, and some are willing to commit acts of terror in pursuit of power.

The military has its own interests but it consists mainly of the middle and poor classes who have focused on industrial growth, and own a number of civilian businesses from cereal and cement to finance and construction, that requires human resource development for the skills they need.

The only one of three power centers that has any interest in human and industrial development is the military.

Given the choices Pakistanis have, I believe military rule offers the best hope for an industrialized, educated and prosperous Pakistan that will hopefully lead to a real democracy with a mostly middle-class population.


Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 537 shankar
[...I'm not condoning what the Chinese have done in their history. Such things have happened in many countries...]

Really? which other countries have killed 20 million of their own people and tortured and murdered millions in "re-education" labor camps?...

Here's a 2003 report I was referring to:

Dell said it had received some complaints about the technical support through the overseas support center, with one executive saying that customers reacted unfavorably to the fact that Dell had changed how it handled those calls.

Newspapers located near Dell's Austin, Texas headquarters reported that customers were complaining not only about having their calls answered by technical support staff who spoke with accents but also about receiving scripted responses to their questions rather than one-on-one support.

Dell's own online user forum is rife with recent complaints about attempts to reach Dell for technical and nontechnical customer support.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/32248.html

It may well be that Dell is back in India since the 2003 decision to pull out.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts