Mr. President, Stop the War!
Akber Choudhry October 5, 2009
#113 Posted by ahmedmadani on October 9, 2009 6:03:06 pm
Re: # 102 Mr. T , now leave general president he is gone. Still it has not entered you head the real thing. Musharaff is just head of army not it is general Kayani. The fate of this bill will be decided bye kayani and not by American Kicked up BB or her husband. Please note that no where in democracy general talk openly and with selective leakage. Not Gilani and Z company has to beg for generals approval not other way. Still keep in mind the power in Pakistan flows from Guns. So you do not try to trouble gen President. Nobody Govt can survive if you touch Musharaff. Please leave him , we have new not rising but at Zenith Gen. Kayani. Kayani is Musharraf today. Hope you stop attacking president and do not anger Sindhi population by attacking son of Sindh Dharati.
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#112 Posted by akberc on October 9, 2009 3:28:46 pm
@Kranath
We have over 8 years of hindsight on 9/11 to gain some kind of preliminary historic perspective:
Was 9/11 a war on the way the West lives, started by a highly organized Islamist organization with sleeper cells everywhere, and supported by Saddam Hussein's Iraq?
Or, was it a crazy plot that slipped through lax security, lazy intelligence responses, and badly designed buildings exponentially increased the damage and loss of human life?
Prosecutions for terrorism are at pre-9/11 levels, a great many people who were arrested have been released, and al-Qaeda has been determined to be more of an ideology than an international organization. Iraq was a dud, Guantanamo a sick farce. Since 9/11, the ratio of successful anti-terrorist to false and unsuccessful attempts is about 1:1000
But it has given a license for extrajudicial violence to governments worldwide - China, Russia, Israel, Pakistan, Saudi, etc. etc.
Pursuing Quixotic wars against phantom enemies, and by bombing civilians will never get us anywhere and will fan flames of extremism and terrorism everywhere.
That is why 9/11 was, most likely, a one-off event whose terrorist success was far worse than its planners' best hopes, and it was one of history's tragic events, and a turning point.
But after 8 years and a million killed or wounded, isn't it time to move on? And make the world a safer place using tried, tested and rational means?
That was the thrust of my article, and that has been the verdict of the Nobel Committee today.
We have over 8 years of hindsight on 9/11 to gain some kind of preliminary historic perspective:
Was 9/11 a war on the way the West lives, started by a highly organized Islamist organization with sleeper cells everywhere, and supported by Saddam Hussein's Iraq?
Or, was it a crazy plot that slipped through lax security, lazy intelligence responses, and badly designed buildings exponentially increased the damage and loss of human life?
Prosecutions for terrorism are at pre-9/11 levels, a great many people who were arrested have been released, and al-Qaeda has been determined to be more of an ideology than an international organization. Iraq was a dud, Guantanamo a sick farce. Since 9/11, the ratio of successful anti-terrorist to false and unsuccessful attempts is about 1:1000
But it has given a license for extrajudicial violence to governments worldwide - China, Russia, Israel, Pakistan, Saudi, etc. etc.
Pursuing Quixotic wars against phantom enemies, and by bombing civilians will never get us anywhere and will fan flames of extremism and terrorism everywhere.
That is why 9/11 was, most likely, a one-off event whose terrorist success was far worse than its planners' best hopes, and it was one of history's tragic events, and a turning point.
But after 8 years and a million killed or wounded, isn't it time to move on? And make the world a safer place using tried, tested and rational means?
That was the thrust of my article, and that has been the verdict of the Nobel Committee today.
#111 Posted by meenug on October 9, 2009 3:10:29 pm
##HamidM, you have stated at various times that ALL Pakistanis care about Kashmir. That is commendable. But who did the actual fighting in Kashmir?##
Similarly what is yr point on 45 million Uighiri moslems brothers of yrs rotting in China on the same line?
Similarly what is yr point on 45 million Uighiri moslems brothers of yrs rotting in China on the same line?
#109 Posted by stuka on October 9, 2009 2:31:38 pm
"...... today urstruly's people killed over fifty innocent pakistanis, including women and children in peshawar because they want to impose wahabism in pakistan"
This is a lie. Today HamidM's people killed over fifty innocents because they have harped on religious identity to meet their own geo-political imperialist needs while hypocritically enjoying the good life themselves.
HamidM, you have stated at various times that ALL Pakistanis care about Kashmir. That is commendable. But who did the actual fighting in Kashmir? Not you. Not the generals, nor even the majors and captains who speak English and eat in their mess. It was the Jihadis who have sacrificed and given their lives. When the time came for you to stand by them, you sacrificed them to American drones. Either be honest in your kanjarpan or be honest in your Islam. Stop straddling both worlds and blaming everyone else for your misery.
This is a lie. Today HamidM's people killed over fifty innocents because they have harped on religious identity to meet their own geo-political imperialist needs while hypocritically enjoying the good life themselves.
HamidM, you have stated at various times that ALL Pakistanis care about Kashmir. That is commendable. But who did the actual fighting in Kashmir? Not you. Not the generals, nor even the majors and captains who speak English and eat in their mess. It was the Jihadis who have sacrificed and given their lives. When the time came for you to stand by them, you sacrificed them to American drones. Either be honest in your kanjarpan or be honest in your Islam. Stop straddling both worlds and blaming everyone else for your misery.
#108 Posted by meenug on October 9, 2009 2:14:13 pm
Before the prophet-hood of Mohammad, the Arab society and the world in general was living in bliss of its kind.......as and when this prophet of doom came......the hell was let loose by him on infidels......
It was the birth of Mohammad in 570 A.D in the city of Mecca which brought a unique change in the view of a Supreme Deity among Arabs and in a significant segment of world Humanity. Allegedly, at the age of 40, when Mohammad was meditating at Mt. Hera, he received a revelation from his god, whose name known as Allah. And while he was preaching to his contemporaries about Allah, most of his contemporaries found that the type of god that Muhammad was preaching was so different, so creepy and eccentric. They had believed all their lives that the supreme deity or deities were morally perfect but this god of Muhammad, Allah could lie (Quran 3:54), Allah could instigate violence (Quran 9:111), and even was a debaucher (Quran 44:51-54, Quran 78:31-33). It was apparent to Muhammad contemporaries that Allah, the god of Muhammad, possessed an inverted sense of morality and was a lie.
They were not used to such kind of deity in history and they did not expect to counter one in the future. But the events were moving so fast and they were not prepared to handle the situation and in their disillusionment, they were conquered by Lie, only to experience catastrophes in their own lives then and in their children lives today.
The overall message is, when you let the lie win over, it will breed more lies to affect the future generations.
The lie about God was followed by a lie about Humanity
Book 033, Number 6427:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Mu’awiya that (the Holy Prophet) said: Every new-born babe is born on the millat (of Islam and he) remains on this until his tongue is enabled to express himself.
Apparently, according to Islam everyone is born being a Muslim. And Muhammad’s exegete was that just as the child submits to the physical laws of the nature in which he is born into, his soul also submits naturally to Allah. But, the child does not proceed to be a Muslim as he grows up because his parents will somehow teach their child the knowledge other than Islam.
But if we follow this logic, then everybody into this world would have been a Muslim. Because the first man on earth, according to Islam was a Muslim, and certainly taught his kids about Islam as this is the only knowledge that he knew. How then that not everybody into this world a Muslim? I mean by the same logic, isolated communities were supposed to be Islamic. American Red Indians and Australian Aborigines, prior to the colonization of these isolated continents the Europeans should have been Muslims. But they weren’t. It seems then that we are not born into this world being Muslims. We are born being Humans and grow to be Humans unless Islam intervenes, unfortunately, to make us Muslims. Obviously, lie begets lies and this is another lie of Islam. But do lies of Islam end there?
Islam goes on to lie about historical facts
Moslems, as well as others, under the influence of Islam lies that everybody is born a Muslim and everything is Islamic in nature and have continually striven to disregard historical facts. It is this irresponsible and dogmatic attitude of Muslims to deny historical facts that, for instance, that the Holocaust never happened or that Palestine has always throughout history been an Arab and Muslim land, that is the fueling contemporary conflicts in the Middle Eastern politics. It is really baffling, with numerous archeological evidences indicating that the Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the monarchy beginning with the ancient King Saul, followed by King David, who established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E while his son, Solomon, building the Temple, popularly known as the Solomon’s Temple, yet there are dimwits today and their supporters, who defiantly deny these facts.
In my opinion, the peak of Islamic disregard with history is evidenced when the undisciplined and dishonest prophet of Allah, Muhammad, lied by claiming that a Jewish man, by the name of Yeshua was not crucified by the Roman Authorities, 2000 years ago (Quran, 4:157), a fact that is reported by credible historians of antiquities such as Tacitus, Josephus and Luke, among many others, that the man was crucified as a matter of fact. While this mighty look like a small matter to some of you, but it is really important especially when it comes to the credibility of Allah, Muhammad and the Quran, which is supposedly an error free and infallible book. It means that if Islam can get a simple historical fact wrong, how can it get it right with other complex subjects such as life, death and eternity?
It also lies about scientific facts, and about specific groups of people such as Women, Jews or even animals.
Islam lies about the sun that it sets in spring of black muddy and hot water) (Surat Al-Kahf) 83 – 86 and that the Earth is fixed (Quran 31:10). But these are just science subjects dealing with the physical nature of the Universe. We can forgive Islam for these, but we cannot and should not give it chance today to lie about people.
How can we reconcile with Islam today when it lies about women being deficient in intelligence, being equivalent to dogs, being crooks and useless creatures? Check out to read this article which explains in details how Islam lies about women and Jews: http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/08/14/does-allah-really-value-women/
Conclus ion
So far we have seen that Islam’s foundation i.e. Allah is based on lies and sustained by lies. But we have yet to answer the question of what on Earth is the Lie here for. What is the ultimate purpose of Islam? The obvious answer by experience, in a nutshell, is that the Lie is here on Erath to destroy Humanity and that includes me and you. But the primary victims of a Lie are the ones who are letting themselves to be deceived and they are Muslims. It is a fact that ever since the advent of Islam so many Muslim lives were and continue to be destroyed just to sustain the Lie. Everyone is required to be conscious of the sufferings of Somalis under Al Shabab’s terrorism, the plight of Afghanis under the Taliban, Gazans under Hamas rule and Iranians under the Khomeinist regime.
But also we cannot afford to make mistakes done by Muhammad’s contemporaries, in being complacent to let the Lie triumph over truth. To do so is to make a fatal mistake of being irresponsible for not learning the history about 9/11 American, 7/7 British and 26/11 Indian attacks by Muslims, among many others.
It was the birth of Mohammad in 570 A.D in the city of Mecca which brought a unique change in the view of a Supreme Deity among Arabs and in a significant segment of world Humanity. Allegedly, at the age of 40, when Mohammad was meditating at Mt. Hera, he received a revelation from his god, whose name known as Allah. And while he was preaching to his contemporaries about Allah, most of his contemporaries found that the type of god that Muhammad was preaching was so different, so creepy and eccentric. They had believed all their lives that the supreme deity or deities were morally perfect but this god of Muhammad, Allah could lie (Quran 3:54), Allah could instigate violence (Quran 9:111), and even was a debaucher (Quran 44:51-54, Quran 78:31-33). It was apparent to Muhammad contemporaries that Allah, the god of Muhammad, possessed an inverted sense of morality and was a lie.
They were not used to such kind of deity in history and they did not expect to counter one in the future. But the events were moving so fast and they were not prepared to handle the situation and in their disillusionment, they were conquered by Lie, only to experience catastrophes in their own lives then and in their children lives today.
The overall message is, when you let the lie win over, it will breed more lies to affect the future generations.
The lie about God was followed by a lie about Humanity
Book 033, Number 6427:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Mu’awiya that (the Holy Prophet) said: Every new-born babe is born on the millat (of Islam and he) remains on this until his tongue is enabled to express himself.
Apparently, according to Islam everyone is born being a Muslim. And Muhammad’s exegete was that just as the child submits to the physical laws of the nature in which he is born into, his soul also submits naturally to Allah. But, the child does not proceed to be a Muslim as he grows up because his parents will somehow teach their child the knowledge other than Islam.
But if we follow this logic, then everybody into this world would have been a Muslim. Because the first man on earth, according to Islam was a Muslim, and certainly taught his kids about Islam as this is the only knowledge that he knew. How then that not everybody into this world a Muslim? I mean by the same logic, isolated communities were supposed to be Islamic. American Red Indians and Australian Aborigines, prior to the colonization of these isolated continents the Europeans should have been Muslims. But they weren’t. It seems then that we are not born into this world being Muslims. We are born being Humans and grow to be Humans unless Islam intervenes, unfortunately, to make us Muslims. Obviously, lie begets lies and this is another lie of Islam. But do lies of Islam end there?
Islam goes on to lie about historical facts
Moslems, as well as others, under the influence of Islam lies that everybody is born a Muslim and everything is Islamic in nature and have continually striven to disregard historical facts. It is this irresponsible and dogmatic attitude of Muslims to deny historical facts that, for instance, that the Holocaust never happened or that Palestine has always throughout history been an Arab and Muslim land, that is the fueling contemporary conflicts in the Middle Eastern politics. It is really baffling, with numerous archeological evidences indicating that the Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the monarchy beginning with the ancient King Saul, followed by King David, who established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E while his son, Solomon, building the Temple, popularly known as the Solomon’s Temple, yet there are dimwits today and their supporters, who defiantly deny these facts.
In my opinion, the peak of Islamic disregard with history is evidenced when the undisciplined and dishonest prophet of Allah, Muhammad, lied by claiming that a Jewish man, by the name of Yeshua was not crucified by the Roman Authorities, 2000 years ago (Quran, 4:157), a fact that is reported by credible historians of antiquities such as Tacitus, Josephus and Luke, among many others, that the man was crucified as a matter of fact. While this mighty look like a small matter to some of you, but it is really important especially when it comes to the credibility of Allah, Muhammad and the Quran, which is supposedly an error free and infallible book. It means that if Islam can get a simple historical fact wrong, how can it get it right with other complex subjects such as life, death and eternity?
It also lies about scientific facts, and about specific groups of people such as Women, Jews or even animals.
Islam lies about the sun that it sets in spring of black muddy and hot water) (Surat Al-Kahf) 83 – 86 and that the Earth is fixed (Quran 31:10). But these are just science subjects dealing with the physical nature of the Universe. We can forgive Islam for these, but we cannot and should not give it chance today to lie about people.
How can we reconcile with Islam today when it lies about women being deficient in intelligence, being equivalent to dogs, being crooks and useless creatures? Check out to read this article which explains in details how Islam lies about women and Jews: http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/08/14/does-allah-really-value-women/
Conclus ion
So far we have seen that Islam’s foundation i.e. Allah is based on lies and sustained by lies. But we have yet to answer the question of what on Earth is the Lie here for. What is the ultimate purpose of Islam? The obvious answer by experience, in a nutshell, is that the Lie is here on Erath to destroy Humanity and that includes me and you. But the primary victims of a Lie are the ones who are letting themselves to be deceived and they are Muslims. It is a fact that ever since the advent of Islam so many Muslim lives were and continue to be destroyed just to sustain the Lie. Everyone is required to be conscious of the sufferings of Somalis under Al Shabab’s terrorism, the plight of Afghanis under the Taliban, Gazans under Hamas rule and Iranians under the Khomeinist regime.
But also we cannot afford to make mistakes done by Muhammad’s contemporaries, in being complacent to let the Lie triumph over truth. To do so is to make a fatal mistake of being irresponsible for not learning the history about 9/11 American, 7/7 British and 26/11 Indian attacks by Muslims, among many others.
#107 Posted by meenug on October 9, 2009 10:18:39 am
@RiazHaq:
@@@@@@These and other similar myths perpetrated by Indians (both Hindu and Muslim) have been thoroughly debunked by Brass in his book published in 2005@@@@@@
Myths? tell me how myths they became?
And as I have said before, she is a educated Muslim mohtarma herself - what better fact can you have than your own member of Ummah....Brass never took mohtarma banu head on neither was he able to puncture her writing/facts.....If you have any, bring them on....
@@@@@thorough research published by an independent foreign scholar with no ax to grind@@@@@
Here is a thorough research on Islam, its Prophet and Islam by such an independent foreign scholar with no axe to grind, would u accept one of them for us to lock horns with each other?
Craig winn, Ibn Warrick, Salman Rushdie, Taslima nasreen, Ali sina, Anwar shaikh, Daneil pipe, Robert spencer, Abul kaseem, Amil Imani, Edward Cline, Sami Alrabaa, Mohammad Asghar, Lennard James, Ali Khalaf, William Gomes, Muhammad A. Khan, Nonie Darwish.........Of all these choose one of your liking, because none of them are Indian citizens......and you have luxary, as many are muslims......Just choose one name and I would always quote him or her for further communications with you on this.......waiting for your reply.
@@@@@@These and other similar myths perpetrated by Indians (both Hindu and Muslim) have been thoroughly debunked by Brass in his book published in 2005@@@@@@
Myths? tell me how myths they became?
And as I have said before, she is a educated Muslim mohtarma herself - what better fact can you have than your own member of Ummah....Brass never took mohtarma banu head on neither was he able to puncture her writing/facts.....If you have any, bring them on....
@@@@@thorough research published by an independent foreign scholar with no ax to grind@@@@@
Here is a thorough research on Islam, its Prophet and Islam by such an independent foreign scholar with no axe to grind, would u accept one of them for us to lock horns with each other?
Craig winn, Ibn Warrick, Salman Rushdie, Taslima nasreen, Ali sina, Anwar shaikh, Daneil pipe, Robert spencer, Abul kaseem, Amil Imani, Edward Cline, Sami Alrabaa, Mohammad Asghar, Lennard James, Ali Khalaf, William Gomes, Muhammad A. Khan, Nonie Darwish.........Of all these choose one of your liking, because none of them are Indian citizens......and you have luxary, as many are muslims......Just choose one name and I would always quote him or her for further communications with you on this.......waiting for your reply.
#106 Posted by wiseguyin on October 9, 2009 10:06:12 am
@t32
[[ ... 1947 has been harder on indians that most people in pakistan realize ]]
LOL .... Yeah Right :)
[[ ... 1947 has been harder on indians that most people in pakistan realize ]]
LOL .... Yeah Right :)
#105 Posted by tahmed32 on October 9, 2009 10:00:47 am
dana-e-raz: 1947 has been harder on indians that most people in pakistan realize.
#104 Posted by wiseguyin on October 9, 2009 9:55:44 am
@Dana-e-raaz
Your comparison would make sense if majority of Indians were supporting the Maoists (including sections of the army
and government).
And non-maoists were subject to degrading laws, abduction of thier women, and forced conversion to Maoism.
I REALLY think there is a god after all.... I was enjoying the start of my long weekend yesterday ... with 7 Orcs dead. And hoping for a nice weekend ...And lo and behold:
50 more Orcs died today :D
"I understood for the first time in my life what doomsday would look like, " said Noor Alam, who suffered wounds to his legs and face and was at a hospital overrun with other casualties.
Now if only humans would stop being politically correct and ... well ... Human .... and stop Orcs immigration and start deportation of Orcs ... our chances of survival will increase...
i hope HE is listening again :D
Your comparison would make sense if majority of Indians were supporting the Maoists (including sections of the army
and government).
And non-maoists were subject to degrading laws, abduction of thier women, and forced conversion to Maoism.
I REALLY think there is a god after all.... I was enjoying the start of my long weekend yesterday ... with 7 Orcs dead. And hoping for a nice weekend ...And lo and behold:
50 more Orcs died today :D
"I understood for the first time in my life what doomsday would look like, " said Noor Alam, who suffered wounds to his legs and face and was at a hospital overrun with other casualties.
Now if only humans would stop being politically correct and ... well ... Human .... and stop Orcs immigration and start deportation of Orcs ... our chances of survival will increase...
i hope HE is listening again :D
#103 Posted by Dana-e-raaz on October 9, 2009 9:46:37 am
Disgusting derogatory comments from bharat25t, a_r_j_u_n279 should not find place in serious discussions. Many Indians are getting overtly intoxicated by relative successes of Indian economy, but they should also understand that India ranks amongst those countries that have worst form of poverty of more than 70 % of its people.
Pakistan has not gone anywhere. It is still there with all its problems. Wait till the Indian army launches operations against maoist armies in 9 states of Bharat. Only then will they realize what has really happened to Bharat.
Pakistan has not gone anywhere. It is still there with all its problems. Wait till the Indian army launches operations against maoist armies in 9 states of Bharat. Only then will they realize what has really happened to Bharat.
#102 Posted by tahmed32 on October 9, 2009 8:53:50 am
#96 dont worry - With "shining sun" Musharraf now seeking dinner receptions from 3-table Pakistani khokas in suburban virgina (a step down from weekends at Camp David), the Pakistani forces have been permitted to go after the taliban. And they dont need your begging Obama for help - they can send these woman-beating and beheading thugs to hell without anyone's help.
#101 Posted by Kamath on October 9, 2009 8:40:01 am
I honestly think that the The author's observation and writing, "..The destruction of the Twin Towers was a fluke mass murder by a bunch of terrorists.." is a schizopreic bizarre statement. What a rubbish people think and right.
Kamath
Kamath
#100 Posted by major on October 9, 2009 8:16:13 am
Re: # 96[...please, get a spine and stop pandering to the pussified fringe ...]
Yeah, stop pandering and bomb pakis ... not that you are not doing that already, but do some more of it... (T)
Yeah, stop pandering and bomb pakis ... not that you are not doing that already, but do some more of it... (T)
#99 Posted by RiazHaq on October 9, 2009 8:12:20 am
Re: # 88: menug: "..shows that in over 95 % cases the riots were initiated by Muslims. Her thesis has been published in a book entitled 'Politics of Communalism' (1978)."
These and other similar myths perpetrated by Indians (both Hindu and Muslim) have been thoroughly debunked by Brass in his book published in 2005. I'd be inclined to accept the conclusions of thorough research published by an independent foreign scholar with no ax to grind than any Indian whose views would always be subjective.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
These and other similar myths perpetrated by Indians (both Hindu and Muslim) have been thoroughly debunked by Brass in his book published in 2005. I'd be inclined to accept the conclusions of thorough research published by an independent foreign scholar with no ax to grind than any Indian whose views would always be subjective.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide
#98 Posted by swapnavasavdutta on October 9, 2009 7:18:49 am
hamidm2, why do you want 8 million more, Kashmiris?
You can't even take care of your own people!
You want aid, you want Amrika to take care of these
killers, and yet you want more people?
You can't even take care of your own people!
You want aid, you want Amrika to take care of these
killers, and yet you want more people?
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