The Woman

its a little vague ....I am not sure abt the real theme behind it :)

OHHHH this is SOOO good.....its like you f*cking took the words out of my mouth in exactly the correct way....im not kidding. The WAY you wrote it, the whole CONCEPT of taking the issue in that way....i love it. Im saving it on my pc so i can make my freinds read it too....

one great poem!!!and so very realistic.

Asif --

True. It is not a purely Pakistani issue. Rape does happen all over the world.

But I think that Haris has merely reflected upon his own character and its shortcomings. And he happens to be a Pakistani male.

If only everyone in the world would do the very same -- start with themselves.

Haris,

you wrote ``So today i stand with my head down in Shame, for i am the Pakistani male the culprit the person to blame the oppressor .... ``

Man, don`t downgrade the Pakistani people. Its not a single country`s issue. It happens all over the world. Its a world`s issue.

Sent a chill down my spine. Very nice.

Tahnoon,

What graciousness to top off wit and intelligence :) Now that you clarified, I did not think that you were feeling threatened individually. I was reacting to the somewhat common assumptions about aggressive, over-the-top feminists just out to get men.

Let`s hear from the woman who wrote the poem. Umair, is there some way you could request her to respond? TP and I seem to be speculating (as best we can) on the meaning of the poem on our own!

BG,

In that specific context, duly noted and acknowledged. Mea culpa and apologies to ``woman`` if that was the way it was intended/was the assumed ignorance on which it was based.

Will endeavour to be more polite in the future.

Tahnoon

re: implied threat, I quote: ``Feminism is not about hunting down and killing men - its about respect and equality for women. Isnt rape about neither of those?`` :-)

``Not that this poor woman was individually and
unfortunately raped with tooth-brushing regularity but that all these social strictures had conspired to subject her to a sort of steady state rape over her lifetime.We are then informed that these so transcended the physical act of rape that compared to these terrible injustices the act itself was almost liberating.``

Tahnoon, I think you are mis-reading the physical act being almost liberating. I read it as: the state raped and enabled raped of women as a collective, through its laws. and the individual woman screamed when she was raped, because that is when she was physically raped.

Yeah, a lot of people know about the screwed up laws, but I dont think EVERYONE knows just because you and I do. And, I thought, writing a short, powerful poem was a new way of presenting a somewhat known theme, which if written into a long and tedious essay might have forced many to tune out.

Huh, was I implying that you were feeling defensive? I dont recall.

something that is half baked deserves to be condescended to? see, that`s the kind of circular illogic that I know you can do better than ;)

BG,

Lets parse a little bit of the poem to add some clarity to this discussion. ``They said`` in each of the verses painting the analogy tell us that this is a social commentary. Not that this poor woman was individually and unfortunately raped with tooth-brushing regularity but that all these social strictures had conspired to subject her to a sort of steady state rape over her lifetime.
We are then informed that these so transcended the physical act of rape that compared to these terrible injustices the act itself was almost liberating.
I did not comment on the author personally as you imply, BG, rather I said that this analogy is a steaming pile of horse droppings. I maintain this to be the case. Rape can be taken to mean several things…. none of them carry a moral value. Poetry assigns moral significance to simple definitions through context and analogy. In this case the poem suggests a particularly repellent reversal of what I concur, is a disgusting, specific and violent crime and a puerile knee jerk feminism.
I acknowledge that the injustices described are pertinent and need to be corrected. To point this out is neither particularly insightful, nor especially new on this forum. After a while the ‘wailing and rending of hair’ becomes farcical. Not to put too fine a point on it but my reaction is ``I Know! Please stop whining and contribute something constructive before everyone tunes out through sheer exhaustion``.
To suggest however, that ANY social legislature exceeds the horror of actual rape, whether marital or not is a revolting example of pointless grandstanding.
You suggest that I reacted the way I did because I felt threatened. You’re wrong. I am offended by the use of victims (of anything) to advertise an ideology. That someone of obvious talent would choose to do so with primitive word games adds to the offence.

Re condescension: I didn’t do so consciously but anything this half baked deserves to be condescended to.

Re Asim:
If you re-read my earlier post, you will find that I in no way suggested that rape was not a terrible thing. Quite the contrary. Incidentally I have never been nor will I ever be a Sahib. Please feel free to use my name absent any embellishments.

Tahnoon.

Tahnoon, who said, ``this does not in itself excuse confusing such a horrible experience with a feminist agenda. Your sentiments may be ``nice``, but the analogy is utterly divorced from reality.``

Hey, there, hold on just a minute. I think the poetic lisence in this instance is completely valid and appropriate. Rape, like any other word, can be and is stretched to accomodate many nuances of meanings. It is not always a physical violation. In any event, the author was on the mark when she talked about marital rape (not being recognized) and about rape requiring the evidence of four male, adult Muslims, otherwise its not even sex, its zina. Incidentally, marital rape can be pretty horrifying. Usually occurs in extremely abusive marriages. I dont want to get graphic, but I have worked with women who have survived such abuse. Imagine, having to live with your rapist years and years and being raped and abused by someone who is supposed to love and protect you, in a space (your home) which is supposed to be a haven. I dont think the author is divorced from reality. If this piece of writing is part of a feminist agenda, it is not automatically illegitimate. Feminism is not about hunting down and killing men - its about respect and equality for women. Isnt rape about neither of those?

And what`s up with this condescention: ``your sentiments may be `nice``` ?? Tahnoon, I know you can do better than that ;)

A well constructed poem with excellent imagery.

But.....

I was going to fill this space with a quote from one of the psychology sites regarding the impact and consequences of rape for a victim but realised it was both redundant and rather too graphic.
Suffice it to say that while I fervently hope that no-one has to discover the difference between a social statement and the awful consequences of being physically violated for themselves, this does not in itself excuse confusing such a horrible experience with a feminist agenda.

Your sentiments may be ``nice``, but the analogy is utterly divorced from reality.

Elegant, depressing, tragic!!!! a veritable account of undeniable facts. It hits one straight in the face, and more aptly, it tugs at the heart of hearts with a enormous impact..

simplicity at its best in being result-oriented. Hats-off to ``woman`` for such an insightful, and brilliantly simple narrative which speaks volumes in spite of being concise......

Regards

Asim

EXCELLENT. POWERFUL. COMPELLING.
More! more ! more!