Water Buffaloes

Really well written article, which conveyed the intended message, of desi women swearing not to be involved with the desi guys, brillioantly., This is so very true at Universities, and even in business and job scenarios.

Indeed the fact that these women have compartmentalised themseves into such rigid beliefs that they would much rather end up making catastrophic mistakes with some ``foreign2 dude, rather than being caught dead with desi dude. I still could not understand it. At university, i was amazed and a trifle disconcerted to see that the British Pakistani girls, would endure all sorts of abuse and name calling in public by their supposed boyfriends, of the ``ungrezi`` type, but would go to the extent of ridiculing anybody asian to let them a friendly hand to get out of the abyss..

The counter measure by the desi dudes was also to swear by Hanif Qureshis, vivid books, to ever even bother to talk with such girls.. The result both parties lost out on possibly good relationships, who knows might have led to harmonious households and what nots..but then again, people are themselves to blame. i always say herd mentality and peer pressure is somewhat like AIDS, and is socially transmitted. One should have enough resolve to try things for oneself, and not go by ones best friends sincerest advise.

On a tangent, Hanif Qureshi has published yet another book, which i am currently reading, and it is good too. it is called intimacy, and is about the trials and tribulations of an asian man with two kids, who is considering leaving his British wife of 6 years.... In fact if anybody on the other side of the Atlantic wants to get a feel of the social interaction betwen Pakistanis and the Britishers, in almost all walks of life and everyday life.. then i might recommend reading his previous books, including ``My beautiful Laundrette``, which was indeed nominated for best picture as well. Really witty and delightfully intensive narrative, involving real life people, the stories touch on the cultural perception and the divide which can not be bridged by better education,better status in life, or a better job.

Regards

Asim

Waheed Malik,

Why do I have a nasty suspicion that you are baiting the women? c`mon, yaar, I could see that from a mile. Eid Mubarak :)

Anita,

(I apologize to Shan for this complete and utter tangent) So, you are calling me `good` because in your opinion I am being bad!! You have to admit, this is pretty funny :) No, I am not `running away`. I just never meant to go in that direction. If you wanted me to, you should have just asked, not dared me or patronized me. Anyway, I have lost interest, so see ya in another section :) Eid Mubarak!

re: HK

Well-said. Refer you to my cousin marriages article. Freedom of choice, to marry whoever we want. I am all for that.

re: Bad Girl

Thank you for clarifying the emphasis. I very much care what ``the guys`` think, and yes, of course I was being patronizing, especially since in this discussion, you seem to be running away from the label:)

BG: ``Either one can repeat the platitudes about the DEARTH of right desi men (and women?)`` This is what I said, emphasis on DEARTH.

AZ: ``The trouble isn`t that you think this is nuclear grade material, it is that the guys do.``
Frankly, I haven`t EVER much cared about what ``the guys`` think ;)

AZ: ``I was merely making you go through the mental exercise of what the label represents in the context of female empowerment.``
Wouldn`t you say that`s a bit patronizing, Anita ;) ?

Re: Bad girl

Agreed that this is a very complex issue and my questions do not address all the subtleties involved. I was using simple survey type methodology in the hopes of starting a discussion on what many Pakistani women expect/are looking for, in a spouse. However, these are no platitudes. If one at all cares about the lot of the Pakistani woman`s status in marriage, this is dead serious business.

The trouble isn`t that you think this is nuclear grade material, it is that the guys do.

As for the label, ``Good`` vs ``Bad Girl``, I was merely making you go through the mental exercise of what the label represents in the context of female empowerment. Incidentally, you may wish to check out Elizabeth Wurtzel`s new book about ``Bad Girls``

Anita

Well, I actually dont agree that its nuclear grade material. Either one can repeat the platitudes about the dearth of right desi men (and women?), or try and go beyond into the realm of a very complicated social and psychological space of gender, sexuality, culture, and `relationships`... didn`t Waheed Malik say something similar?

As for calling me calling me good or bad -- think about why you want to lable me other than how i lable myself ;)

Re: Bad Girl

Bad Girl, it seems you are not so bad after all. We`ll have to start calling you ``Good Girl``:).

Since you used the word ``right`` desi man, I took the liberty of expanding on what ``right`` might mean to ``emancipated`` desi women.

I confess to this being a not so subtle dare. I was testing waters here - trying to see if you would touch this ``nuclear grade explosive material`` in view of your self-proclaimed ``bad girlness``:)

Anita

Shan-daar!

Anita,

I was remaining true to my original statement and sentiment. I say what I want to when I want to. If it does not meet up to anyone`s expectation of what I should/could be saying, well, I apologize for disasppointing them but not for saying what I want to.

`chickening out`, c`mon anita, daring me won`t work ;)

Okay so BG knows two desi men who fit the bill, and I know two. Khan Sahab is the fifth one since he passes 4 out of 5 (your point about #5 is well-taken:)). That still makes marriage-worthy (I am reminded of Elaine`s from Seinfeld`s sponge-worthy concept here) desi men a rare breed.

Waheed Malik Sahab, I agree that women who brought up their sons with the ``mera laal`` kind of philosophy are somewhat to blame. And yes, whether you were being facetious or not - men do rule. I am trying to find out how many are willing to accept a co-ruler.

Bad Girl, I was expecting more spunk from you on this one. Some unity in the desi female cause. You chickened out.

Anita

Waheed, chill out yaar. I did not want to dump on all desi men. just made an observation that most desi women i know would prefer to settle down with the right desi man, without going into the probability or difficulty of that coming true.

by the way, two of the most awesome men i have ever known in my life are pakistani. i judge other pakistani men and western men by that yardstick, none other. And, yes, they both grew up in Pakistan, one of them in fact, in one of the most parochial and traditional of pakistani sub-cultures. what do you say now? :)

Re Anita and Ideal Desis

I must confess that I dont fit the bill. I do very well on 1 through 4, no problem. But after seeing my high scores in 1-4, I end up violating 5 :).

Interesting there ARE ``ideal`` desi women (from the non-ideal desi mard`s perspective):

1. Loves to cook and doesn`t mind cleaning (and expects her husband never to do either).
2. Thinks of Equality in Marriage as the right to shop by herself.
3. Considers (as mom always did) child-fostering to be a ``women only`` profession.
4. Is aware that her husband is threatened by a smarter woman.
5. Feels her husband to be god`s gift to women more than her husband himself does.

And as long as they exist, few desi mards will ``fit the bill`` for 2 obvious reasons: being brought up by mothers like these and a ready supply of brides like these.

I wish I could say its just ``a vicious circle``. But there are several.

Re: Anita Zaidi

You rasied very interesting points and I encourage you to write an article on such issue. Then dabate would be very interesting, I bet;)

I agree with BG that most desi women here would prefer to settle down with a nice desi man who fits the bill. The problem is that it is the rare desi man who fits the bill. How many desi men are out there who:
1) consider their wife an equal partner in the marriage?
2) do not think that they are getting married to get a free cooking and cleaning lady, to wait on them, ready to come to attention and serve them in whatever capacity necessary?
3) want to share the job of child-rearing?
4) are not threatened by an incredibly smart lady?
5) do not think that they are God`s gift to all womankind?

I haven`t met many. But may be they are all hiding somewhere, now revealing themselves on Chowk. So let`s see - which mard here fits the bill:)

Very courageous and festive piece of writing. Strictured very well on `Desis` demeanor and released his own exasperation using `Nadir`. Well done.