Please spare the poor animals this Eid!

Dear Wasiq

Before calling my opinion a hoax, if you are interested I can send you the entire bibliography of the research papers on such experiments published in scientific journals such as Nature, Behavioral Biology, National Wildlife, American Scientist, Canadian Journal of Botany, Journal of

Parapsychology - just to name few. I have many of these papers with me if you are interested. You can also get these references from the book I had mentioned earlier. In any case I am not arguing about the validity of these. I was just trying to

show the futility of the debate on which method of slaughtering is least painful etc.

Yousuf

What has shocked me most in this entire debate is the argument that muslim way of slaughtering is the least painful for the animal, especially the reply #125 by Satrangi that talks of an experiment by some Dubai scientists proving that Halal method is least painful. Those who believe this I would invite them to read a book called The Secret Life of Plants (Peter Tompkins & Christopher Bird) - Penguin, which concludes how

living organisms including plants are more sensitive to pain and suffering than even humans.

I would briefly qoute here one experiment: One US scientist Clee Backster connected an ordinary potted plant to a galvanometer with electrodes to see how it would react to different situations.

Firstly, he decided to burn the plant`s leaves and see its reaction on the graph. He went out to get a match and came back to realize that the galvanometer had already recorded a very steep

curve of the graph - at the very moment he had thought of burning the plant! Does it mean that the plant could read Backster`s mind and gave a shriek in terror. Of course such experiments

were later confirmed by many others and this book is full of them - proving the extra-sensitivity of living organisms.

So to me, Halaal or Jhatka, it makes no difference as far as the pain is concerned. Though I am not saying that we should stop consuming even plants as they percieve pain. After all as a race ``superior`` to other organisms in the food chain, we have an ecological right to consume them. But the least we can do is to kill them in the needed quantity only and not in excess, as happens during qurbani.

You seem to be a person who takes pride in abusing and bad mouthing others and are also arrogant. ``Full of sound and fury signifying nothing``` best describes your current writings. You accuse me of

``following mindlessly``, even though I put a lot of thought in what I follow. I take your remark as a compliment. For as Imam Ghazali said `` When faith enters reason departs``. You also accuse me of not thinking about the articles of Islam. For the past 2o years I have been a student of Islamic theology and am currently memorising Quran and also have spent countless hours contemplating each and every aspect of our faith.

Asalaamu Alaikum

I dont understand what kind of a muslim you are. How can anyone crticise such an important commemoration of our faith. One of the wisdom behind the animal sacrifice is that some people raise these animals for 3-6 months before Bakr Eid and they get kind of attached to the animal and yet on the eid day they sacrifice the animal. Why????? Simply because Allah, our creator commanded us to do so. Thelife of the animal is not created by us but it is by Allah and you have to follow Allah no matter how hard it is on you.

Besides modern research shows that even plants have emtion e.g;they also cry. So why dont you stop feasting on those poor little lettuces, cabbages and those cute tomatoes?

Asalaamu Alaikum

I dont understand what kind of a muslim you are. How can anyone crticise such an important commemoration of our faith. One of the wisdom behind the animal sacrifice is that some people raise these animals for 3-6 months before Bakr Eid and they get kind of attached to the animal and yet on the eid day they sacrifice the animal. Why????? Simply because Allah, our creator commanded us to do so. Thelife of the animal is not created by us but it is by Allah and you have to follow Allah no matter how hard it is on you.

Besides modern research shows that even plants have emtion e.g;they also cry. So why dont you stop feasting on those poor little lettuces, cabbages and those cute tomatoes?

Asalaamu Alaikum

I dont understand what kind of a muslim you are. How can anyone crticise such an important commemoration of our faith. One of the wisdom behind the animal sacrifice is that some people raise these animals for 3-6 months before Bakr Eid and they get kind of attached to the animal and yet on the eid day they sacrifice the animal. Why????? Simply because Allah, our creator commanded us to do so. Thelife of the animal is not created by us but it is by Allah and you have to follow Allah no matter how hard it is on you.

Besides modern research shows that even plants have emtion e.g;they also cry. So why dont you stop feasting on those poor little lettuces, cabbages and those cute tomatoes?

Asalaamu Alaikum

I dont understand what kind of a muslim you are. How can anyone crticise such an important commemoration of our faith. One of the wisdom behind the animal sacrifice is that some people raise these animals for 3-6 months before Bakr Eid and they get kind of attached to the animal and yet on the eid day they sacrifice the animal. Why????? Simply because Allah, our creator commanded us to do so. Thelife of the animal is not created by us but it is by Allah and you have to follow Allah no matter how hard it is on you.

Besides modern research shows that even plants have emtion e.g;they also cry. So why dont you stop feasting on those poor little lettuces, cabbages and those cute tomatoes?

...I wonder if he eats meat. I bet you he does.

Wither his concern for ``poor animals`` there?

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i am with you, i have also given up on this ritual, we can better things with our time and money.

#Noor

Good to see a well read believer.

Basis of my argument was:

http://www.submission.org/Ismail.html

I hope that explains everything.

Shamsi

``shamsi@hotmail.com``

Well well well...shamsi sahib, here`s the quote from a(l)Saaffaat: Starting with aayah 103:

He said: ``I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!

``O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!``

So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.

Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: ``O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!`` (The son) said: ``O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!``

So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),

We called out to him ``O Abraham!

``Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!`` - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

For this was obviously a trial-

And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:

Hope that sets the record straight.

Noor

Why sacrifice goats and sheep when Serbs still walk the streets? Shame on you all! Find better uses for your knives ...

#Noor



I find the spirit of slaughtering more barbaric than the slaughter itself. Glorifying a god that asked someone to slaughter his son just for the kicks of it, and a person who was ready to kill his son because god told him so....sorry..I cannot understand this. And shaytaan , the voice of humanity and kindness in this myth, is pelted with rocks...

______

A

hem.... you sure have gotten things mixed up. By Eid Qurbani, you are not glorifying ``God``, you are learning to sacrifice a belonging, a virtue I believe, In rememberance of the will to sacrifice his beloved son Abraham had. ``God`` did not tell Abraham to ``kill`` his son, that;s biblical; according to Koran, it was a dream to sacrifice something beloved, and a ram was sent to save Abr. son`s life, a miracle within itself.

Pelting on stone is again a `ritual` rememberance or Satin`s everlasting efforts to disarray the believers.

Then my friends, I realize that (some of) my fellow chowkies are pretty agnostic, and don`t buy religious arguments. Ah Well, just my 0.03 $ anyway.

Okay, I resisted the temptation..but not any more. So I will reiterate what I said a year ago about this...

I find the spirit of slaughtering more barbaric than the slaughter itself. Glorifying a god that asked someone to slaughter his son just for the kicks of it, and a person who was ready to kill his son because god told him so....sorry..I cannot understand this. And shaytaan , the voice of humanity and kindness in this myth, is pelted with rocks...

Funny, I guess this emotionless medium does not rightly convey the sarcasm in my speech. About pork, I wouldn`t know. If you think that pork and it`s relatives are delicious, good for you. I would stick with my steak and lamb(mutton).

You did not get me. I don`t sacrifice goats as it ``the thing`` to do. I do it as an Islamic ritual. I won`t try pork, or slitting a swine. How can you corelate? jeeeezzz. Sir jee, if you think this practice is barbaric, please refrain from it. I will not call you an infidel.