Saima Shah June 22, 1998
#11 Posted by SaimaShah on June 26, 1998 11:13:05 pm
Re: Temporal
Thank you for your comments. Saira is more than Saira. She is the representative of a unique form of the exploitation of innocent. The fact is that the very means of protection for women i.e., marriage and husband can sometimes become her worst exploiters.
The Judge protects when you know your rights and their legitimacy. Money is a facade of protection. The best facade going but still, a facade. True power is of knowledge.
PS: I have left a reply in Ajrak.
PPS: I am looking forward to the poem.
Re: Mujtaba
I echo your question, `what scares parents/society to give away their daughters without giving any right of divorce?` A man can divorce a woman in 30 seconds, unilaterally. A woman, only if the man agrees. Can we then say that we have justice?
If anything, this kind of power has been given to men so often that it makes some of them as small, as arrogant and power drunk as Saira`s husband.
There is nothing shameful about being a woman, a daughter or a divorced woman. //Women can make mistakes and live lives of dignity//. Unfortunately, they have to constantly fight for this right in our culture. But they must believe in this right...that`s the crux of the story.
I don`t totally agree with your citing the Prophet`s life and action as an example of female liberalism. Also, Islam`s current legal code is heinous in its injustice towards women, It needs drastic revision to bring it in line with modern ideals of justice.
Islam has many humanitarian features but rights of women are sadly neglected.
Thank you for your comments. Saira is more than Saira. She is the representative of a unique form of the exploitation of innocent. The fact is that the very means of protection for women i.e., marriage and husband can sometimes become her worst exploiters.
The Judge protects when you know your rights and their legitimacy. Money is a facade of protection. The best facade going but still, a facade. True power is of knowledge.
PS: I have left a reply in Ajrak.
PPS: I am looking forward to the poem.
Re: Mujtaba
I echo your question, `what scares parents/society to give away their daughters without giving any right of divorce?` A man can divorce a woman in 30 seconds, unilaterally. A woman, only if the man agrees. Can we then say that we have justice?
If anything, this kind of power has been given to men so often that it makes some of them as small, as arrogant and power drunk as Saira`s husband.
There is nothing shameful about being a woman, a daughter or a divorced woman. //Women can make mistakes and live lives of dignity//. Unfortunately, they have to constantly fight for this right in our culture. But they must believe in this right...that`s the crux of the story.
I don`t totally agree with your citing the Prophet`s life and action as an example of female liberalism. Also, Islam`s current legal code is heinous in its injustice towards women, It needs drastic revision to bring it in line with modern ideals of justice.
Islam has many humanitarian features but rights of women are sadly neglected.
#10 Posted by gsm on June 26, 1998 8:15:42 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with Sabrina. ``Living with
someone`` is equivalent to ``being married``, esoterically speaking. Living with someone has a lot of merit to it and is commonsensical. And common sense to an uncommon degree is what is called wisdom. What does signing a piece of paper mean anyway?
someone`` is equivalent to ``being married``, esoterically speaking. Living with someone has a lot of merit to it and is commonsensical. And common sense to an uncommon degree is what is called wisdom. What does signing a piece of paper mean anyway?
#9 Posted by sabrina on June 25, 1998 10:56:14 am
``At least the educated woman,liberated(finacially secure of course)women, should set the example by refusing to marry 33 year old `boys` thrusted on them.Instead, lead an independent life or do the impossible go for a live-in relationship``-Analyzer
I believe you have missed the whole point. Here is my take on the main idea in the story. It was not so much that women are being forced to marry, or that they are in abusive marriages (which is a factor that should not be ignored) but that women need to have some sense of self-worth before they can fully appreciate married life. Otherwise, marriage is stifling, oppressive and worse still it kills the spirit for life. A burden. Note that Saira was not abused-little petty arguments are usually not grounds for divorce at face value. It appears frivolous. But that she did not want to continue tells that this woman`s heart is/probably never was commited to seeing it work. It was merely something to do-get into the next stage of life. Is that her fault, the story seems to ask? As did the Judge to Saira. She came out with a no in the end.
What does it all say? Don`t get married to `boys` parents recommend, look out for `love` and enter `live-in relationships`? It does not change anything. It is all inside-Be someone you can live with first and then all else follows naturally.
It has nothing to do with refusing 33 year old men. It has to do with finding self-worth; make yourself proud of You.
I believe you have missed the whole point. Here is my take on the main idea in the story. It was not so much that women are being forced to marry, or that they are in abusive marriages (which is a factor that should not be ignored) but that women need to have some sense of self-worth before they can fully appreciate married life. Otherwise, marriage is stifling, oppressive and worse still it kills the spirit for life. A burden. Note that Saira was not abused-little petty arguments are usually not grounds for divorce at face value. It appears frivolous. But that she did not want to continue tells that this woman`s heart is/probably never was commited to seeing it work. It was merely something to do-get into the next stage of life. Is that her fault, the story seems to ask? As did the Judge to Saira. She came out with a no in the end.
What does it all say? Don`t get married to `boys` parents recommend, look out for `love` and enter `live-in relationships`? It does not change anything. It is all inside-Be someone you can live with first and then all else follows naturally.
It has nothing to do with refusing 33 year old men. It has to do with finding self-worth; make yourself proud of You.
#8 Posted by temporal on June 24, 1998 9:39:25 pm
DOES THE JUDGE REALLY PROTECTS US?
Saira is more than Saira.
She is our inner self. Lowly peasant, clerk,
unskilled labourer, trembling middle order officer,
student, babu, almost anyone of the spineless multitude in the sub continent.
Money, and the power that comes with it is the sole nourishment for the spine. When the judge is looked in the eye it is this spine alone that provides motivation for protection.
Good read, Saima.
P.S. One of these days I expect a response to my query on the AJRAK inter act.
P.P.S. I am searching for a poem by Ikbal Khan on a similar subject. Shall post it here if I can find it.
Saira is more than Saira.
She is our inner self. Lowly peasant, clerk,
unskilled labourer, trembling middle order officer,
student, babu, almost anyone of the spineless multitude in the sub continent.
Money, and the power that comes with it is the sole nourishment for the spine. When the judge is looked in the eye it is this spine alone that provides motivation for protection.
Good read, Saima.
P.S. One of these days I expect a response to my query on the AJRAK inter act.
P.P.S. I am searching for a poem by Ikbal Khan on a similar subject. Shall post it here if I can find it.
#7 Posted by SaimaShah on June 23, 1998 4:50:17 pm
Re: Amin
As ever, thrilled with your compliment. So, how about you writing something for chowk?
Re: Pete
Thanks for the wonderful appreciation. It means a lot to me. I feel though that Chowk houses much that is good/novel. I hope you find it interesting as well and keep telling us what you think.
As ever, thrilled with your compliment. So, how about you writing something for chowk?
Re: Pete
Thanks for the wonderful appreciation. It means a lot to me. I feel though that Chowk houses much that is good/novel. I hope you find it interesting as well and keep telling us what you think.
#6 Posted by SaimaShah on June 23, 1998 4:44:48 pm
Thank you everyone for so much appreciation. It is rather generous of everyone.
Re: BG
Thank you. Here`s to more Saira`s without Saira`s pain. One of the real question that I want to ask I guess is that `why is it that a woman`s happiness is not legitimate?` there are of-course rams for you to pick up on female circ. and the `moral` denial of the pursuit of selfish happiness for the sake of social stability. How about BG on this one?
Re: Amber
Interesting comments and Thank you for your appreciation but I don`t think it is women who don`t understand morality. I think it is morality that does not understand/(forgive) women! In other words, a woman is a social commodity rather than an individual. Saira`s `obstinacy` is a tongue in cheek slant on the fact that individualism in a woman is NOT tolerated easily. Many matkas have to be broken before enlightenment!
Re: BG
Thank you. Here`s to more Saira`s without Saira`s pain. One of the real question that I want to ask I guess is that `why is it that a woman`s happiness is not legitimate?` there are of-course rams for you to pick up on female circ. and the `moral` denial of the pursuit of selfish happiness for the sake of social stability. How about BG on this one?
Re: Amber
Interesting comments and Thank you for your appreciation but I don`t think it is women who don`t understand morality. I think it is morality that does not understand/(forgive) women! In other words, a woman is a social commodity rather than an individual. Saira`s `obstinacy` is a tongue in cheek slant on the fact that individualism in a woman is NOT tolerated easily. Many matkas have to be broken before enlightenment!
#5 Posted by BG on June 23, 1998 3:24:19 pm
Saima, too good, yaar.
I `love` the judge, I mean the way you have depicted him. Its so true. I am so glad Saira`s judge is diminishing. Its just that he keeps sustenance from the outside, so its a game of constant vigilance. We all have to watch out.
And, to whoever said, thank God for something other than nuclearesque issues -- aye.
re that clause in the nikah-nama: most maulvis just cross it out without even asking what the doolhan-doolha want. guess that`s standard industry practice. i had to ask for it to be left intact. and, though my in-laws and husband were supportive, i was made to feel like a criminal, a deviant to have insisted for a right that men naturally have!
regards,
BG
I `love` the judge, I mean the way you have depicted him. Its so true. I am so glad Saira`s judge is diminishing. Its just that he keeps sustenance from the outside, so its a game of constant vigilance. We all have to watch out.
And, to whoever said, thank God for something other than nuclearesque issues -- aye.
re that clause in the nikah-nama: most maulvis just cross it out without even asking what the doolhan-doolha want. guess that`s standard industry practice. i had to ask for it to be left intact. and, though my in-laws and husband were supportive, i was made to feel like a criminal, a deviant to have insisted for a right that men naturally have!
regards,
BG
#4 Posted by Amin Saleh on June 23, 1998 1:05:13 pm
Brilliant as usual.
Your comment on the Nikah Nama (In paragraph no. 7 of the Nikah Nama (marriage deed) it was clearly asked, ``Does the groom give the woman the right of divorce?``) made me realize that even after 5 years of marriage, I really did not know what was on it. Except for having signed the contract, we never give it a second thought on what we are actually signing. I think the whole process should be done well before the nikah ceremony (something like a civil marriage before a religious one) which would give both sides to contemplate on the contract.
The only thing we discussed was Haq-Meher, in the context of why people put ridiculous pittance of an amount in there or put a fast depreciating currency like Rupees. But today I don`t know what was actually put on our Nikah Nama.
Anyway, a touching story.
Your comment on the Nikah Nama (In paragraph no. 7 of the Nikah Nama (marriage deed) it was clearly asked, ``Does the groom give the woman the right of divorce?``) made me realize that even after 5 years of marriage, I really did not know what was on it. Except for having signed the contract, we never give it a second thought on what we are actually signing. I think the whole process should be done well before the nikah ceremony (something like a civil marriage before a religious one) which would give both sides to contemplate on the contract.
The only thing we discussed was Haq-Meher, in the context of why people put ridiculous pittance of an amount in there or put a fast depreciating currency like Rupees. But today I don`t know what was actually put on our Nikah Nama.
Anyway, a touching story.
#3 Posted by amber on June 23, 1998 12:49:20 pm
Very nicely written Saima!
I am sure that your message will help some Sairas who have been condemned to the hell of self conflict and self inflicted pain by the Judge. We women are at fault when we mistake injustice and maltreatment for moral and religious obligation. Though we are equally wrong when we fail to differentiate between obstinacy and upholding our self esteem.
Best Wishes,
Amber
I am sure that your message will help some Sairas who have been condemned to the hell of self conflict and self inflicted pain by the Judge. We women are at fault when we mistake injustice and maltreatment for moral and religious obligation. Though we are equally wrong when we fail to differentiate between obstinacy and upholding our self esteem.
Best Wishes,
Amber
#1 Posted by Osama Ahmed on June 22, 1998 9:20:09 pm
Finally!
For a long moment I thought the stream of ``nuclear waste`` would never end.
Incredibly well-expressed.
Welcome back, Chowk.
For a long moment I thought the stream of ``nuclear waste`` would never end.
Incredibly well-expressed.
Welcome back, Chowk.
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