Can’t we too break the wall?

Thank God Yousef Saeed wrote on this issue. You are an idealist, like me. Realistically speaking, I doubt Pakistan, India, Bangladesh will ever unite.

I strongly believe that partitioning South Asia like that was a terrible mistake that could have been avoided. I`ve read a little bit on it. When South Asia was about to gain independence from the British, it was an opportunity for us to build a bright future, to plant seeds. Instead, in our impatience, we chose to self-destruct.

I`ve been reading and thinking a lot about what happened around 1947... The Congress thought it was representing all Indians. It wasn`t. The Muslim League thought it was representing all Muslims. It wasn`t.

The reason Pakistan was born, I believe, was because the British heard the voice of the Muslims that said they wanted a separate country. Since the British decided it was OK, it happened. The papers that officially declared India and Pakistan as separate nations, (I understand from what I`ve been reading), were signed in 15 minutes. Hundreds of thousands of lives were destroyed in a matter of days just to realize this vision of a ``pure Islamic state``. WAS IT WORTH IT???????

Also, for some illogical reason, the British decided to give Kashmir to India instead of Pakistan. Why were we still allowing the British to make such critical decisions after all the effort we put into kicking them out? They couldn`t care less about the aftermath of such decisions. The South Asians have to live with it.

What a mess!

In any case, I think all of us idealists who believe that India and Pakistan COULD some day reunite, those of us that are South Asian at heart, must unite. Let`s create an international organization. It`s especially easier for those of us who are not living in South Asia to feel South Asian. We are not subject to the poverty and voilence that perpetuates hatred for the ``Other``. Those of us in North America and Europe especially are in a powerful position. We can make a difference back home by speaking up as well as putting our money where our mouth is.

saafreen@hotmail.com

Yousuf Saeed,You have the right instincts but please don`t use the term ``UNITE`` because it implies a huge monolithic CENTRALIZED empire. I know, this is not what you are saying. You rightly point out that REGIONAL AUTONOMY should be ABSOLUTE. The Centre MUST NOT EXIST except as a co-operative body such as exist among the African countries, the Latin American countries or the Arab League. NEW DELHI and ISLAMABAD based centralized states MUST BE ABOLISHED. Then, AND ONLY THEN, is it going to be possible to de-militrize the Subcontinent. The real enemy of peace, progress and prosperity in the Subcontinent are the Central Governmental authorities of Hindustan and Pakistan. Instead of these two, there should (AND ULTIMATELY WILL) be 20 or 30 smaller regional states that are carved around ethno-linguistic lines and are run on economic priorities and NOT IDEOLOGICAL FICTION.If all revenue is raised by locally and spent locally and the accountability is also at a local level then things will begin to improve. The President of the US has no business whatsoever in running the affairs of Colorado, for example. And the Governor of Colorado has no say in who should be the mayor of Fort Collins or Durango. This does not diminish the security of the United States. However, the prime minister in Islamabad or New Delhi interferes in the affairs of a small town in a far off province. This is an imperialist colonial setup, and it MUST BE ABOLISHED. I applaude you for having the courage to say that this emperor is running BUTT NAKED....SR

hats off to you for expressing such a bold and (at least as far as pakistani`s are concerned) controversial idea.my gut reaction is to say: no! no! no! (in fear, not horror or anything else) because i shudder to think what would happen to the already marginalized provinces/regions in the two countries. Of course, as you say, and SR elaborates, a strong, dominant center IS NOT AN OPTION. State/province level autonomy would, conceivably be more egalitarian and engender greater accountability.On the other hand, having no center at all, makes smaller autonomous regions much more vulnerable to exploitation and trickery by large multinationals (excuse my bias against big capital). for one thing, completely autonomous baluchistan, for eg., might end up competing with other regions by ignoring environmental or labour standards. (i know a lot of this is still happening in our part of the world, in spite of the strong centers) but the POTENTIAL for abuse is greater when small states/provinces are confronted with large multinationals that have annual revenues many times higher than the `puny` GNP of these states. I dont know...what do other people think of that?

Re: Bhupindar Singh. Bravo Mr. Singh! You have hit the nail on the little buulseye on the head. I think that we should work towards the establishment of friendly relations and respect towards each other. I am Pakistani, born and raised. Pakistan is my country and nation and no other beyond it. So for me, it is not a plausible idea in the least. Anyway, if we are to work towards unity, shouldn`t we first re-unite with East Pakistan first? Its all well and good to talk and speculate on such matters, but speaking for Pakistanis, I donot think there would be many who would support this before or after Pokharan/Ghauri.

Interesting, Saeed.BUt I dont see the need to break the national boundaries - we DO need to break the wall - of disrespect, prejudice, paranoia. Cultural exchange etc. etc. needs just that and needs it desperately. A majr reshaping of the map of south asia isnot necessary.believe me just getting the nations in s. asia (in particular, and all over the world in general) to recognize common grounds and respect differences is all thats needed and is already as utopian and idealistic (and unlikely??) as possible.specific to Pak and India though such an integration has far more risk (of discrimination etc.) for the newly integrated minorities and very little for the religious/cultiural majority. But cultural exhange, awareness, at grass root level (dont rely on the govts.) is only beneficial.

No we cant break the wall and dont want to. Pakistan is our country and we do not wish to wipe out our identity just because it`s the politically correct statement to make as far as the Western world is concerned. India is a religous not a secular state that upholds only the rights and aspirations of Hindus, the Sikhs are also fed up with the discrimination and regret not having claimed Khalistan in 1947. The Muslims in India are treated as second class citizens. I dont know what inspired you to write this but with due respects one should look at reality on the ground,you should also keep in mind that for many Pakistani`s even the thought of unification with India is extremely repulsive.

Re Imam Din:I think you can make your point without abusing someone else`s faith. It would not hurt me a littl eif someone called my prophet and my God ``Ugly`` and name-tarnishers.

Re: Mishra Speak for yourself Mr. Mishra. Where inheavens name did the Irnaians and the Arabs come in? I have lived for three years in Iran, and I have always been treated with the utmost respect. Even here in the US some of my very good friends are Iranians and Arabs besides Pakistanis of course. The only ones I find I cannot get along with are the Indians who try to strangle my national identity and try to convince everyone that we are the same. Well WE ARE NOT! I see that the dream of an akhand bharat has a new face one that is euphemistically called ``unity``. I pray a thousand times that this never comes to pass. I am Proud to be a Pakistani. Like I said before, it is a historical fact that we are two separate entities. We have been even since pre Islamic times. The concept of an akhand bharat cannot change that.Like I said before, we have much more in common with the afghans than with the Indians. That there is no afghan satellite TV or films at this juncture to prove this in unfortunate, but that is fact. Therefore, if we want unity with someone at all, we should look towards the Afghans rather than the indians.Pakistan Paindabad Forever!

Re HassanI agree with you and disagree with you (on some of the issues). I agree that a lot of times Indians assume, dismissively, that we are the same. But when one person or group assumes that another person or group is the same as her/him/them, the assumption usually goes: you are like me and not necessarily I am like you. The difference is subtle, but important. For instance, a Black woman once told me that one of her White friends told her, in a complimentary sort of way, ``I feel we are so alike, I never remember you are not White!`` Of course, the white woman thought there was nothing wrong with what she had said; and of course, the black woman found this statement offensive. The white woman, by saying we are alike, was implying that her friend was like her (white) and therefore not black - she wasn`t implying that SHE herself was like a black person.Its happened to me tons of times: A lot of Indians ask me if (unless they have already assumed) I am Indian. I say no. They ask me where I am from. I say from Pakistan. And 3 out of 4 times, they say, ``It`s the same thing.`` And, I feel offended. I ask them if they have ever been to Pakistan and know what it is like. I tell them that culturally I have more in common with Afghans and Iranis than with Malyalis or Tamils. Of course, the assumption is justified if people are from Rajhastan or Punjab. Punjabi`s from both sides of the border have more in common with each other than they do with Balochs or Tamils.Having said that, however, I would like to say, that there so many cultural, racial and ethnic similarities between people all over central asia, the middle east and the sub-continent that its impossible to draw lines and put people in neat little boxes labeled ``these people have more in common``. I know South Indian music, language, cuisine, etc. is vastly different from my native region, but some of my closest friends are South Indians. Obviously we do share more than a few things. Culture, heritage, race, ethnicity are not linear continuums. They are all over the place across time and space and surprisingly you find similarities where you least expect.We must recognize that there are differences AND there are similarities. To deny the similarities is as problematic and dishonest as to assume that we are `all alike`. Re SR and Yousuf SaeedI still havent heard anything on the potential for more abuse by giant corporations?

Re: Hamid Shah * *Why is it that this forum tends to support Anti Pakistani feelings more than True nationalistic feelings. * *What are Nationalistic Feelings? Can you give an example? It appears that you consider yourself a Pakistani. Can you please elaborate what you consider a forum that would suit your taste?The writer, Yousuf Saeed has a point of view that he expressed - should he be prevented from wanting to explore this issue? * *either the founders of this site are ``AHMEDIS` or some awfully anti Pakistan motivated group. * *Now, about Ahmedis. Would you feel better if Ahmedis were exterminated like Jews? Is that what Pakistan needs to progress? Is that your idea of an ideology? I am sure you dont believe that so why spread hate. Havent we had enough of that. Please dont give religion a bad name by fomenting hatred and contempt. Leveling accusations and criticising others is really not a pleasant habit - it is bad for you and distasteful for the readers. I am sure you know that it is unIslamic too. Co-existence and co-operation are virtues that we have ignored in our march to progress. It is not a bad thing to occasionally consider extending hands of friendship.

Re: BG I see your point my friend. As you said that that when someone says that we are the same donot necassarily mean it in the vice versa. Whenever this has happened to me, I always tell the Indians ``Then you won`t mind if I call you Pakistani``, and everytime there smile has dissappeared and they have quickly changed the subject. This is, quite irritating, but in a way quite funny too. The only reason I get along better with middle easterners is that when I say, oh you`re virtually Pakistani, they genuinely feel happy about that, and that gives me a feeling of much greater closeness to them. But then again, who your friends are is a personal matter based on your preferences, but this was just to show a point.Best RegardsHassan

No thnanks! WE have NO intention/aspiration to be called `bharati` citizens, to alter our names to sound less islamic in order to get good jobs/higher education in `Mother India`, see a temple built at the babri masjid sight like a slap in the face of the muslim `citizens` of India, try for the rest of our lives trying to justify the fact that despite all the discrimination and third class status accorded to us we still `love my India`( case of `sour grapes`, i presume!). No thanks I would take pakistani `mushkils`/frustrations anytime over losing my self respect and having my religious identity used as a measure of my `incompetence`.And as for all those who do want `bharat maata`s asheervaad`, do all of us a favor, Go to India!Experience it first hand and then write all of us poor pakistani souls whether your dream really came true or did the expereince leave an ashy aftertaste! Ciao!

Re: Usman Qazi I can only speak from my own experience, and what I have seen is this. All pakistani punjabis do not touch hindu punjabis with a yard pole! The only sikhs they come near are the ones who are rooting for khalistan. This excludes american born people. The mutual dislike is so very famous here, that even CNN remarked that it was ``visceral``. That is the nature of all the Pakistanis. A test of this is try calling a Pakistani ``Indian`` and see his response.... Fortunately, I have four or five sindhi friends on whose behalf I can speak. They feel comfortable only with the Jains of Kacch because they are unhappy with the Indian federation. Rajastanis they say, make them feel uncomfortable always trying to tell them about the freedom of Sindh etc. while when the conversation turns to freedom of Rajhastan, the subject is quickly changed. I really do not see any signs of ``unity`` in that (Alhamdolillah). The Sindhis and Punjabis like the rest of the Pakistanis, have the same general dislike for the Indians. Same is the case with Urdu speaking Pakistanis. The same for the Baluchis and the Pathans. Infact, the Afghans in the US who came through Pakistan also dislike the Indians!!! That I think is the most telling example of how many poles apart we and the Indians are. Re: Born to Be and KHWhat can I say? Bravo chaps! You make this Pakistani prouder still!!!

Hey, what`s all this Indian and India bashing? Puhleeez, gentlemen, calm down and argue on the issue.I am as offended by this kind of `we are better than you` rhetoric as by Indians assuming that South Asia=India. And, feel proud of having more in common with secular, open-minded, progressive Indians than I do with narrow-minded, intolerant Pakistanis!

Re: M. Aliani I have the following questions: 1.Are you calling me a liar? 2. Aren`t you generalizing about the Sayyeds? 2a. Do you hate Sayyeds or any other classification of Muslims thereof? 3. Can you give any examples to support your arguments or this merely self righteous fluff? 4. Do you know my Pakistani friends? 5. Are you Afghani? 6. Do you know the 13 Afghanis that I know all of whom hate India but not Pakistan? 7. Is Punjab in the former USSR?

Re: M AlianiOne last question: ``It is strange you have the term `his`.......`` Are you just trying to demonstrate your wit or do you have something useful to say?