Reconfiguration of the South Asian Polities

Just some general commentary that can come up in any article such as this one, and possibly this is tangential but that is afterall what makes for good conversation. Reading the reply that DL has written brought this to mind. Why are human rights seperate from Women`s rights? We are also human afterall, are we not? It has been interesting to notice that there are some modern day feminists that take offense to the fact that womens issues do not come under human issues. that in congress a woman will be given a `womans issue` to chair or deal with ...to keep her silent or to give her something to do..she is afterall in congress now isnt she? I`ve met a couple of congresswomen who have been making the move towards humans rights including ``womens issues`` as well. As one of the former congresswomen put it, if men were to get breast cancer, it would be of national concern and a human rights issue...at this point womens health, education, and touchy feely issues are handed over to women while men take care of big macho things liek the ways and means commitee or the finance comittee. There are other women however who like to have the heading of womens issue to stand exaclty for that and to have it be distinguished from other rights and issue. This is to facilitate them in funding and to also allow women nationwide to feel good about their own cateogry of living i suppose. I am not sure what is the non economical response that was given to that.

just a thought...women being human...therefore having human rights..or we start a man`s rights commitee :-)

z.rizvi

Islam does not give anyone the right to judge each other. Allah makes that judgement and the Quran is very clear on that matter; Lakum Din-kum wa liya Din, to each individual, his own religion.
And it should not be a matter of perceived right that Muslims pass judgement on the faith of other Muslims.

whose Islam is it anyway ?

fundamentalist, wahhabi, sunni, or merely reactionary -- an emotional escape from the realities of frustration; economic social and intellectual?

endless dialogue that invariably centres on the impact of `islamization` on women and human rights.

maybe its time some of us introduced the concept of studying islam in all its breadth and all its depth, to fight the instinctive ignorance that seems to have inexplicably associated itself wih this religion.

maybe we could even show that Islam was supposed to emancipate. it was never meant to oppress. whatever happened to `go to the ends of the earth if you have to to educate yourself` ?

but what good will that do?

as some of the responses to this article indicate, the ability of the human mind to reject reason inspite of the grandest exposure to rational thinking and its inability to rationalize reason and religion -- remains unchallenged.

Okay ArtZ

I take the edginess out and ask you the question in a format you would like:

``When does a place become the land of Allah ?``

Also another if you will:

``Do Muslims believe in any national boundaries ?``

regards

Ashish

All of us who have lived in Pakistan have heard of Islamization for soo long .. i dont think anybody really cares anymore. Rather than implementing basic Islamic principles such as a free judiciary, and basic human rights, the government is coming up with another `Just add water` approach to ending the problems. Instant solutions never work. It takes a lot of Hard Work (need a definition Mr. Sharif?) to get a recipe right. I say, stop treating the masses as ignorant half wits Mr. Sharif, you are just a fascist using Islam as a billy club to knock everything down which stands in your way.

My sources from inside Pakistan tell me ... that even Nawaz Sharif is a front man for `Abba Ji` - our current contender for Father of the Nation ( move over Mr. Jinnah). He makes presidents, he makes the decision for time day and date to test the Nukes. I hear people had to apologize to him for blowing a few on thursday ... it is apparently not a `mubarak` day to test nukes.

Hypocrites. Stand them in a line and shoot one bullet so it goes through all their heads. ( thats an interesting engineering problem). But alas im not a violent person.

Re: Sunni:

Who are munafiqeens? with most humble of opinions .. i do not see how u can figure everything out by reading our nicknames on this discussion board.

I really suggest u avoid statements like these ..the high and mighty attitude generally results in a swift kick in the butt rather than an interested audience .. If u have a point to get across, do it rationally, dont alienate yer readers in the first sentence.

Peace.

Re: Ashish

``When exactly does a place ``become land of Allah``. After you kill all the kafirs or does it all belong to Allah anyway and the faithfuls of Allah can claim it anytime.``

Same point different scenario ... your statement is a bit edgy ... doesnt help discussion :) i am however prepared to discuss with you the `Land of Allah` question if u truly are interested :)

Re: Amin Saleh and Zehra

Im trying to think if there is any possibility that either of u is my long lost twin my Mom never told me about ... our thoughts have many parallels. :)

Re: ysmallik

True we need to go back to the books and re-interpret them for this day and age.

ArtZ

RE :Amin Saleh & Z. Rizvi

I appreciate your candid and pragmatic view. Sometimes I wonder why people endorse those ideas which even they don t follow. I don t know when that day will come when we shall stop expecting others to follow all the laws and regulations whereas we will follow them according to our comfort.

With due respect to KURAN and all religious books, my personal opinion is that these books have certain things which were written to deal with the problems which were prevalent at the time of writing. Now our social structure has changed, our problems have changed. We are now living in a global village. So we should review these books now according to new situations. But instead of doing this, our leaders are using this as a mean of their survival.

Re : Sunni

If you can explain your endorsement in detail , then we all can debate.

Regards

At the PSA of Rutgers University, we got involved in a discusion about whether Pakistan should be an ``Islamic`` govt or be the democracy it is. MOST people in the room Immediately spoke up for the Islamic govt. They like MR Sunni (you, sir, have issues you need to deal with, since when do YOU decide who is the right Muslim? ) all felt that Pakistan, since it is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, needed to be ``more`` islamic and follow in the sunaah yadda yadda yadda. Being the loud mouth I am, and being plagued by rational, non zealous thoughts, I raised the question as to how many of them, both the men and women in the room, would be willing to practice hijab? For the women that would require covering their heads and for the men to throw away the gillette equipment and grow beards. No more red streaked hair, no more tight black pants, white t-shirts and platforms. and for the `pakistani islam`, no more opinions for the women to have. Was this a possibility?

The irony in all this was , I was the only woman in hijab there defending democracy. I heard absolutely ludicrous staements like, ``Hazrat Mohd. was able to bring about Islam in a era of immense ignorance, and if we can`t do that much then what good are we?`` my answer to that was to look around the room and say..``anyone of you who thinks he/she is ANYWHERE near the caliber of our Prophet, raise your goddamn arm``. My presence at PSA meetings was since then met with groans :) ( I had sworn i would keep quiet, but i just cant help myself, its the political scientist in me).

Pakistan is a such a place where I really dont feel the peole will be able to tolerate a taliban-like govt. What is sad is all the talk that goes along with this...everyone is willing to say yes, we should have an islmaic govt, but it is only in theory for these people. When it comes to practice, I do not see paksitanis giving up their lavish parties, alcohol and debauchery. Hell, pakistan wouldnt be pakistn without all of it. It would, Might, be a beter place, but how many would wanna go vacation there?

On an ending note, if people do not think they can practice a certain dogma, it should NOT be repeated. This is probably the one thing that completely pisses me off. The way people will fervently stand for all good things and not practice them when it comes time to put words into action. We could very well have a Gideon ( Margret Atwood`s ``A Handmaid`s Tale``) on our hands if people will let theories as such rule them.

Z. Rizvi.

I think whenever we see a name that seem to have Hindu origins we get all defensive (or should I say xenophobic). There were a few comments in Wag the Dog that were immediately compared with the conditions in India.

While I don`t think fanaticism happens overnight, it certainly build itself up with rhetoric. And mind you fanaticism does not lead anywhere. There are short term emotional gains (feel good) but in the long run any fundamental imbalance can hardly be rectified with emotional ploys.

Islam is a complex religion as any other and if you get two individuals together you will get two response to the intrepretion of definitions.
And more if you include actions by the said individuals.

In such a situation, where there is hardly any agreement on the interpretation of Quran, much more on Sunnah, how can a law be drafted on such ambiguity. Ambiguity gives rise to self interest actions.

I think before such a law is passed, consensus should be on the key aspects of Islam that would fall within the framework of an Islamic Law and such sweeping laws should be avoided.

re afrasiyab
you`re on point: what is this `arain` connection?

re safdar
no matter how `wishy washy` this ammendment sounds, i would loath the day it is passed. it can ONLY make things worse for minorities and women. the tragedy is that if a good law is passed, its benefits dont translate to the masses if the government is corrupt and the enforcement mechanisms weak. but, if a potentially dangerous law/ammendment is passed, you can bet its going to be abused to persecute the vulnerable in the same incompetent, corrupt society. so, i wouldnt be complacent about this ammendment.

re faraz
i`m not that optimistic about pakistan. but, i hope your right :-)

Re: Ras

IMHO, a ``simplistic approach`` HAS TO BE a big part of the solution. A good place to start would be the cultivation of values such as Honesty, Fairness, and Trustworthiness etc.

Re: Sunni

I feel that statements such as ``a muslim like myself`` and ``comments written by Munafiqeen (muslims in the outside, non-muslims in the inside)`` are a bit arrogant.

Interesting observation Safdar.

I agree with you. All the signs point to war. There will be war. Although the reasons may seem to be religious fanaticism, that is but the ``effect``. The ``cause`` was,is, and will always be economics. All you religionists forget that we are human beings first. And as a species we organize ourselves in certain social orders. family, neighbourhood, city, race, religion, country, etc. etc. If there is not enough for everybody then the ``differences`` start bothering us. Brothers fight, ethnic groups fight, states want autonomy, countries go to war and still new countries are formed. None of these provide solutions because they fail to recognise the social evils of the time let alone address them.

ANY PHILOSOPHY, RELIGION, IDEOLOGY, ``WAY OF LIFE`` HAS ADDRESSED SOCIAL EVILS OF A PARTICULAR TIME IN A PARTICULAR PLACE (SOCIETY). Today we are moving towards a global ``society``. Telecomm, media, coupled with a global economy have made this real. The evils of today`s global society are poverty economic inequalities. Look anywhere in the world, if a particular regions economy cannot support the populace there is social unrest. In fact, countries even go to war over what ideology should be used to address this social evil of economic depravity. (Capitalism v/s Communism).

As far as Mr. Sunni is concerned. You send a chill down my spine. A question for you though. When exactly does a place ``become land of Allah``. After you kill all the kafirs or does it all belong to Allah anyway and the faithfuls of Allah can claim it anytime.

regards

Ashish

Peace be upon those who follow the guidence.

It is interesting for a muslim like myself

to read articles and comments written by

non-muslims and Munafiqeen (muslims in the outside, non-muslims in the inside). They seem to be exteremly afraid of what will happen if the law of Allah is applied in the land of Allah. For the rest of us, the MUSLIMS, we do believe that Mohammad peace be upon him is a true messenger of God, thus his laws as he said will work until the day of judgement. He was no liar, we believe. It is also funny how ANY Islamic movement that tries to reform or explain Islam as it was understood by the companions is right away labelled ``wahhabi``! If returning to Islam is a wahhabi, then I guess that makes the people of Pakistan some of the best Wahhabies on the earth.

May God bring forth Islam back into the hearts and legislatives of the muslims all over.

All thanks due to God alone,

wassalam

This is in reply to the Indian PM`s comments made very recently about the 15th amendment in the constitution of Pakistan.

Sir, humbly, very humbly, might I just say this,``Look who is talking.``

As far as Mr. Udaya Kumar is concerned I believe his assessment of Pakistani Government`s flirtations with Islam are definitely off base. I don`t know where he gets the idea of Zia and the Arian connection and how is he interweaving all of that with Islam and Pakistan.

The spreading of fanaticism in S. Asia can be blamed on Afghanistan and the Taliban as much as it can be blamed on BJP and the Babri Masjid demolition in India.

What makes the situation in South Asia even more precarious are the evolving events in India. News reports state that Muslims in India are becoming more and more frustated with the BJP Hindu fundamentalist government, which is dragging its feet in indicting the ruling party of Maharastra, which according to the recently tabled SriKrishna report was responsible for inciting Hindus against Muslims, leading to over 2000 deaths (mainly Muslim) in the Bombay riots. The NYT recently published an article on the preparations underway in Rajasthan and Ayodhya for the construction of Ram Mandir at the site of the Babri Mosque. The Hindu fundamentalists are determined to build a temple at the site of the mosque, and the current ruling party (BJP) are responsible for the destruction of the mosque in the first place. (note: NYT states that there is no historical evidence that the Mosque is the birthplace of Ram). In South India many Muslim youth are turning to militancy as an escape from poverty and to correct wrongs (imagined or otherwise) by engaging in terrorism.

All these events are pointing to more violence ahead. Secular India may not remain so. In light of these events, India`s concerns over Pakistan`s Islamization seem warranted. After all, BJP/Shiv Sena fear that the global nature of Pakistan`s and Afghanistan`s Islam, may lend support to Muslims all over India, making the Kashmir `insurgency` seem pale in comparison. As alluded to in the article this will lead to more stubborness on the part of the Hindu fundamentalist government, which may now feel justified in promoting anti-muslim sentiments and supporting violent elements in India.

India is the place to watch for trouble in the coming months. Pakistan has declared itself Islamic God knows how many times. The talibaan succeeded in Afghanistan because they practised what they preached (no matter how senseless). Pakistanis on the other hand are mostly talk- And I forsee little change in everyday life for most Pakistanis (good or bad- you decide) as a result of the Islamisation amendment (which in itself sounded very wishy washy).

Peace.

These simplistic answers to Pakistan`s problems

will just not work. To strangle Sufi Islam

and impose the Wahabi version from the top will

backfire on Mian Sahib and his friends.

To be more descriptive, Pakistan does not need the Zia Legacy.

This well written and polite article skims over

the top of the problems that will arise out of

this experiment of political expediency. It also appears that the aid from ``friendly Islamic ( and non-Islamic?)countries`` does come with many strings attached.

Two questions come to mind:

Is this the ruling elite`s latest attempt to

use Islam to avoid the current material problems in Pakistan? Or has the Pakistani Elite finally eaten grass?

Ras

Re: Faraz

I hope you are right about the people of Pakistan not putting up with a Taliban-like government.

According to a recent article in the Friday Times, `` We can either all become part of an America-hating, West-bashing ``Islamic civilisation`` which eats grass and lives happily ever after in a rogue state whose nuclear weapons have been ``taken out`` and whose army has been ``knocked out``, or we can become part of the moderate Muslim state our forefathers dreamed of building in the sub-continent half a century ago, with a vibrant economy, a united and creative society and a modern, affordable, professional army.``