This Should Do It

or by referring to sex, am i giving into the military-industrial complex? incidentally, living in a theocratic, puritanical society like Pakistan, am i even allowed to refer to sex?

shahbaz, please help.

slink... just dinner? i thought we`ve been talking about sex? :)))

re arif: a `brilliant commited relationship` eh? she`s a lucky woman :)

so...wanna do dinner?

shandana

re arif
phew!! thanks

I realise where I screwed up Ms Zehra Rizvi. It was shahbaz who had declared himself a slut and not you. Whoa....Apologies once again!

Re: BG

Just read your response to Shahbaz. Good stuff. Why was there a need to apologise?

Re: arif

You are exactly where you should be. I realise the word ``committed relationship`` evokes images of chains and shackles in some people but there are also a great number of us who believe in it. Not all of the younger generation is warped (by my own defn).

In fact, thank you for summarising what I have been trying to say but obviously failing aptly, seeing that no one understood what I wrote.

Sex can be that scratching of an itch. It can be something more when it is taken to a higher plane. Simple.

Communicating an emotion-How true.

Whatever emotion that is communicated in a short-lived affair usually is pretty fast fading as well. No one can argue with that...

last unrelated comment -- apologies to everyone

KAFIR, i would be interested in reading about your experiences.

shahbaz, i would respond if i knew what you were talking about. i think i got lost somewhere after the first line.

but having re-read the offending piece that sparked off this extensive debate, there is a sense of disquiet about the story. it`s not the celebration of sexuality that it seems to be at first glance (at least to men. it was interesting how women saw through the facade more easily than the men did). Rather, there is a note of desperation, of hysteria, of defensiveness as if the protagonist realises how empty the whole act is but hopes the bluster will help convince herself that this is what she really wants. looking at it from the other side of the mirror, i`ve had my share of sexual encounters, some meaningful some not, but now am in a brilliant committed relationship and the sex means more than scratching an itch, it`s a way of communicating an emotion. does that make me hopelessly out of touch with these times?

re kafir
okay, i will admit -- to shatter that hetero stereotype -- that i have a wonderful relationship with my husband, who is one of the most decent human beings i know (and he was born and bred in pakistan, thank you very much). also, my father was an amazingly progressive man (another pakistani). so, there are success stories, they are just not as ``interesting``, that`s all ;-)


re shahbaz
puhleeeez! whatever you call it-- advice or plea-- the fact is YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to tell anyone what they should be doing with their lives.

first of all, please READ what i said my problem with sex is. (eg, kafir`s and my discussion). i dont have a problem with sex, but its marketing as a be all and end all. and the use of sex for power, abuse and control. when i said, been there, done that, i meant that sex is a part of life. not life itself as much of popular culture and advertising would have us believe. and in all this sexual packaging and imagery, who ends up being the vacuous-looking, mouth ajar, wide-eyed, passive vessel, that has ``do what you want`` written all over her face? show me a woman who is sexually assertive (and that doesnt necessary mean promiscusous), secure, strong and independent, whether her thighs are too big or her breasts too small -- and i will cheer her on. but an object is an object is an object...disempowering, not a reason to rejoice.

AND second of all, just because i have said i distrust men in general doesnt mean any of the things you are assuming about me. hell, you dont even know my name! where is the basis for all those offensive assumptions?

stick to the discussion. personal attacks, even if warranted, dont make for good discussion. at least i try to disagree without being disagreeable.

re slink: `i also know an awful lot about chilli chips.`

Ah! This should make a good subject next time.

May I also suggest Fish & Chips.

Re:zehra

Alright lady. I went back to all the past messages and found not what I was looking for. I must have read in passing last week and replied in haste with a mistaken idea of what you said. For that I apologise.

In anycase, you and some other have misunderstood what I was trying to say. To put it simply-Sex is not as big a deal as people here make it out to be. It can be something basic like taking care of an itch. Or it can be something else if you want to cover it with tender caresses and kisses. But at the end of the day, it is still something that has to be done. A Need. I doubt if the character SM wanted to portrary was busy getting too emotional abt the men she encountered. And if the character did, she pulled herself together and bloody hell moved along.

Loving men? But from a safe distance, I see now;)

sabrina.

ps:might reply to shahbaz if i find time later...

RE: Shahbaz

wow....you have possibly pin pointed what desi women are afraid of in terms of their sexuality. it is frightening for me to see that if the word sex is said, the negative reaction to it. it is not as if i go around preaching for everyone to have sex or for young children to etcetc. i have not have sex and i do not plan to till i get married. if my husband asks me to not move, make a sound or lie still, i will divorce him on the spot. sex is not something that one should submit to. it is the act of joining two people together, physically AS WELL AS emotionally. the emotional compound is so damn important, and its not sumthing that people realize. sex is not purely physical. ( this is sounding like your aunts romantic notions i suppose, but im young, naive and unadultered at this point, lets leave it that way and put down this hopeful wishful response as a fault of my young age.) also, the comment you made about hijabi women...to some extent i do agree. they are bundles of repressiveness. my saying this is hypocritical since i myself wear hijab. i do not however identify with the average, typical hijab wearing woman. ( i gave up grouping myself with others. it did not work. i was/am too `liberal` for the hijab wearers and for the non hijab wearers..well they couldnt/cant really see past the hijab ). It is wrong to go malign a normal human function that Allah has for us to enjoy and bond with. thank you for your reply, and i love you too man :)

re: sabrina

your response made little sense to me. i have never identified myself as a slut and i will ask you to refrain from name calling and vague observations about women you dont know. If sex is unappleaing for you and is something that you will not enjoy and be therefore a vessel for your husband, then by all means, be it so. for those of us who have romantic notions about sex not just being sex but actully making love, let us be. i do not buy into the market that is run on sexual imagery. televison or movies have not given me this view. i do not feel that by openly admitting to loving men and possibly enjoying sex that i am liberating myself in any way or that it makes me stronger. They are in fact, just true statements that i was happy somone else was also stating. if the character in the story is shown as insecure or weak, that is her problem. she and i have something in common...we love men and we fall in and out of lust easily. that is where the similarity ends. i am a very spiritual person and see god and beauty in most everything.

``howzz that?`` thazz just fine.

z. rizvi.

Re: Zehra

Slut-Sexually immoral woman. A derogatory word.

I ask you to give me a term equivalent to the above that describes the male.

You took the character at face value. And in doing so confused her voice as that being one of an independent woman. There is much more to independence than creating waves with superficial boldness in conservative societies where women are forced into the defensive, when innocent desires like enjoying male friendship gets them the label sluts. Which might send some women into wanting to carry that label in combat mode.

Engaging in a normal sexual relationship is healthy, IMO (islamic moralities aside). Most relationships IMO, fall into varying degrees of commitment, by the individual`s own standards. I gather from your response that these women lay open to the label slut because they engage in the sexual aspect of a relationships as well? So that that these `strong` women are sluts. Right on logic, huh? Most of these women will present you with a stinging slap. Enuff said.

Howzz that?

sabrina.

re shahbaz

unsolicited advice appreciated, but i dont think so. dont take distrust of ``men in general`` so personally ;-)

You are NOT 22!!!...:)

re anotherwoman: did i have a scathing reply for you the first time?

as for who is stepping on who`s toes..i think we all get a turn.

shandana (waiting in line) minhas

re critic: i never claimed to be an authority on anything including sex/men&women. i`m glad you enjoyed reading it, but i think it`s pretty harsh of you to judge (not just me but all 22 year olds out there)by those of my articles that you`ve read.

i also know an awful lot about chilli chips.

shandana