This Should Do It

man this was great

i mean very amusing .loved the i-couldnt-care-less attitude!

Wanted a detailed retort ( on Shandana`s piece and on a few others` ``liberated falderal``..but all I`ll say is: if one starts playing the kid to the tune of our desires/fanatasies, the difference between

human(es) and beasts would remain to be an iota

( as it is perhaps today )

WOw..some people are blessed here!

may the Almighty guide us all ( I know you dont believe but I do believe in guidance!)

Allah haafiz

Hi! Just wanted to say it was refreshing. I really enjoyed your work. It was so funny, but also it was liberating. It`s nice to know that not all women want/need to be what is a ``proper young Pakistani/Muslim.`` Those women tend to make me want to slit my wrists when I am forced to converse with them ( Which, if I`m lucky, I can limit to once a year). I just hope you can be this bold when speaking to anyone in person. And, even if this work is fiction, it gives me hope that not all Pakistani women are tight assed and fake, and full of (innocent little girl come save me) ideas. For a Pakistani girl who has very little interaction with Pakistani`s and has very ``liberal`` thinking. This was a good read.

`You Should do it`

Hahaha. You`re nuts. Totally nuts.

Just found this site today, and wow, you have changed my whole attitude about PK women. I did not think that there would be one capable of such brute honesty. I wish I was :)

If you are around let`s have dinner and be brutally honest

Baber

Well for what its worth, i`ll put in my 2 cents. I liked the piece because the woman portrayed showed self confidence in herself, and that at least to me is the only type of woman i can ever respect. I detest demure characters who allow themselves to be dominated by men. They practically invite patriarchial males to abuse they by adopting the personality of doormats.

Shahbaz has it right on male masturbation, and also on one of men`s greatest fantasies being to have wild, uninhibited sex with women who are equally into it, and especially with multiple partners. Sexually aggressive women who know how to take/share control during sex, who are not ashamed (as Paki society teaches them to be) of their own bodies are what normal men want. Passive chicks for the sickos.

Shahbaz, you should visit Le Trapeze in NYC. You`ll love this club. Take a girl with u, no singles allowed.-:)

Some people mentioned that sex the first time around should be an emotionally powerful/charged experience. Well, it certainly is/should be one of the memorable ``firsts`` of life.

Repression of desires only leads to headcases in life, people who have missed out on living. I pity those who fantasize, but are afraid to act out their fantasies and go instead into denial.

comments ?

I like the disclaimer !

This one I liked for its honesty. I find it very difficult to believe you are not a ``nymph`` as you claim.

Shahbaz:

Nahhhh. I`m paying. Which means YOU owe ME.

Being in the Land of the Pure will do that to ya!

- B.

shahbaz, have you ever heard of the word `sophistry?`

Also, i don`t know if you noticed before you were carried away by the flood of your eloquence that the word `proper` was enclosed in quotation marks. That usually means something, no?

peace.

Hey Shahbaz...

Wanna do - er- dinner?

- Bina

correction to be made

WHY do you feel an experiance with a virgin or MUSLIM Woman would not be satisfying?

sorry bout that..i felt, belatedly, that there is no reason that being muslim should keep one segregated from pleasure ;))

one more thing shahbaz

WHY do you feel that an experiance with a virgin would NOT be satisfying??? au contraire, i think it would be something memorable. that is, if she is sexually aware of herself. i see you doing something in your writing that you might be doing conciously. you are confusing the issue of being a slut with being a senuous, aware female. being proud of ones sluttiness?...no i dont think that is sumthing ot be proud of at all. one should respect their mind body and soul...and being called a slut in NO way will do that for you. on the other hand...being proud of ones sensuosness or reveling in THAT..yes that makes more sense. inadvertantly, while trying to defend these sexually aware women you , yourself are labeling them as sluts. it is so very interesting for me to see the way language can misinterpret our thoughts and feelings...but then agian, what other mode of communication do we have??

just wanted to add that bit in with my response ;))



rizvi

Shahbaz

I really admire your candid nature and the way you are saying it like it is.

but tell me...what do you think..REALISTICALLY speaking..would the reaction of men and women around me be, if i were to come out and say yes i masturbate. i mean..theoretically speaking, i should be accepted for who or what i am and what i do..but if i were to masturbate and be aware of my body ( a heady experiance if there ever was one..tha tis not induced by drugs and alcohol) most men would see me ONLY as a sex object and most women as a `slut`. i do think that masturbating is a healthy normal activity and one that most men and very few women indulge in. i had once had an idea, a foolish, naive notion, about teaching the women of pakistan about themselves and who and what they are and what they are really capable of. a: who am i to do so? and B: if i started preaching masturbation i would prolly get stoned on the streets or raped repeatedly by men who dream about `sluts`. you talk about realism my friend. i find that you live in a very unreal world where social norms and regulations mean nothing. you say to go out and find your own niche and people like myself. its hard to do when i, myself am so many different people. i am sexually aware of myself, but/and i wear hijab. hijab to me symbolizes a protection. i do feel like a rare gem or jewel to be protected. does this mean i cannot flaunt and better yet, shimmer in my sexuality? yes, in a way it does. can i help it that i am still seen as sexy even within my protective hijab? no..because that ALSO is a part of me. its not as easy for the rest of us, wanting to be so many differnt things and wanting to do so many differnt things to just go and find ONE place to fit into. i wish it were as easy as that. where would i house my south asain counterpart, my conservative part, not so conservative part, traditional part, more liberal part, american part, student part, 20 yr old going on 30 and 20 yr old going on 5 part?? what i find myself doing is splitting my niches into sub niches. makes for a more diverse lifestlye and gives me the choice to be whom i want to be any given day. i blame most of it on my piscean nature :)

thank you for your response however, it was heartening to read...i will say one thing however..a penis isnt all that neceassary :))

take care

z.rizvi.

incidentally, shirley manson (garbage`s lead vocalist) is in person a very gentle, very `proper` woman. the stage act is, well... just that... an act that`s designed to promote a certain image and shift more units. Which, to me, makes it slightly more ironic. Love doesn`t make the world go around any more, it`s all irony these days.

re, zehra... i don`t think wordsworth would work. i have a feeling shandana might not care for him too much. perhaps an autographed terry pratchett might do the trick?

Re: shabaz

i LOVE this line...where`s it from?? ``this is the noise that keeps me awake, my head explodes and my body aches`` ..talk about describing an aroused and frustrated person with this sweet aching delicious pain...do tell where you got this from :))

also....sex being this primitive and instintic, animal lusty hunger thing for you..well it is for most everyone..however most don`t choose to describe it as such. it is easier for men to say it as it is, but society norms and regulations lead women to be more conservative about their views because of the negative response they can draw...take for example my being called a slut just cuz i said i loved men :)) Realistically speaking ( realism being sumthing you stressed about in your response) women do NOT like to have bad reps and protect themselves becasuse a bad rep leaves you open to all types of attacks both physical and verbal...not many women i know like to be put in that position :)) it would be great in an Ideal world if as a woman i could just say it as it is and not have to worry about being labled a slut, or being notorious for my promiscuity which may or may not be a myth. realistically, this world we live in is NOT an open place and one, esp a woman should be careful about whom they trust and what they say. what a depressing place to be.

confusing the issue of lust with euphemisms about emotion and such...well...sex IS going to be a very emotional act for me...i think it is for most women. it is a different prespective all together. i dont feel that saying that it IS emotional that i am covering up in any way that i enjoy sex or that it is not an insticnt and base lust. it will be enotional as well..and that is looking at it realistically :))

re; arif

are u gonna buy her flowers too or no? i would suggest a nicely bound book of wordsworth`s poems...guaranteed to melt any heart :Þ

regards

z. rizvi

or by referring to sex, am i giving into the military-industrial complex? incidentally, living in a theocratic, puritanical society like Pakistan, am i even allowed to refer to sex?

shahbaz, please help.

slink... just dinner? i thought we`ve been talking about sex? :)))

re arif: a `brilliant commited relationship` eh? she`s a lucky woman :)

so...wanna do dinner?

shandana

re arif
phew!! thanks

I realise where I screwed up Ms Zehra Rizvi. It was shahbaz who had declared himself a slut and not you. Whoa....Apologies once again!

Re: BG

Just read your response to Shahbaz. Good stuff. Why was there a need to apologise?

Re: arif

You are exactly where you should be. I realise the word ``committed relationship`` evokes images of chains and shackles in some people but there are also a great number of us who believe in it. Not all of the younger generation is warped (by my own defn).

In fact, thank you for summarising what I have been trying to say but obviously failing aptly, seeing that no one understood what I wrote.

Sex can be that scratching of an itch. It can be something more when it is taken to a higher plane. Simple.

Communicating an emotion-How true.

Whatever emotion that is communicated in a short-lived affair usually is pretty fast fading as well. No one can argue with that...

last unrelated comment -- apologies to everyone

KAFIR, i would be interested in reading about your experiences.

shahbaz, i would respond if i knew what you were talking about. i think i got lost somewhere after the first line.

but having re-read the offending piece that sparked off this extensive debate, there is a sense of disquiet about the story. it`s not the celebration of sexuality that it seems to be at first glance (at least to men. it was interesting how women saw through the facade more easily than the men did). Rather, there is a note of desperation, of hysteria, of defensiveness as if the protagonist realises how empty the whole act is but hopes the bluster will help convince herself that this is what she really wants. looking at it from the other side of the mirror, i`ve had my share of sexual encounters, some meaningful some not, but now am in a brilliant committed relationship and the sex means more than scratching an itch, it`s a way of communicating an emotion. does that make me hopelessly out of touch with these times?

re kafir
okay, i will admit -- to shatter that hetero stereotype -- that i have a wonderful relationship with my husband, who is one of the most decent human beings i know (and he was born and bred in pakistan, thank you very much). also, my father was an amazingly progressive man (another pakistani). so, there are success stories, they are just not as ``interesting``, that`s all ;-)


re shahbaz
puhleeeez! whatever you call it-- advice or plea-- the fact is YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to tell anyone what they should be doing with their lives.

first of all, please READ what i said my problem with sex is. (eg, kafir`s and my discussion). i dont have a problem with sex, but its marketing as a be all and end all. and the use of sex for power, abuse and control. when i said, been there, done that, i meant that sex is a part of life. not life itself as much of popular culture and advertising would have us believe. and in all this sexual packaging and imagery, who ends up being the vacuous-looking, mouth ajar, wide-eyed, passive vessel, that has ``do what you want`` written all over her face? show me a woman who is sexually assertive (and that doesnt necessary mean promiscusous), secure, strong and independent, whether her thighs are too big or her breasts too small -- and i will cheer her on. but an object is an object is an object...disempowering, not a reason to rejoice.

AND second of all, just because i have said i distrust men in general doesnt mean any of the things you are assuming about me. hell, you dont even know my name! where is the basis for all those offensive assumptions?

stick to the discussion. personal attacks, even if warranted, dont make for good discussion. at least i try to disagree without being disagreeable.

re slink: `i also know an awful lot about chilli chips.`

Ah! This should make a good subject next time.

May I also suggest Fish & Chips.

Re:zehra

Alright lady. I went back to all the past messages and found not what I was looking for. I must have read in passing last week and replied in haste with a mistaken idea of what you said. For that I apologise.

In anycase, you and some other have misunderstood what I was trying to say. To put it simply-Sex is not as big a deal as people here make it out to be. It can be something basic like taking care of an itch. Or it can be something else if you want to cover it with tender caresses and kisses. But at the end of the day, it is still something that has to be done. A Need. I doubt if the character SM wanted to portrary was busy getting too emotional abt the men she encountered. And if the character did, she pulled herself together and bloody hell moved along.

Loving men? But from a safe distance, I see now;)

sabrina.

ps:might reply to shahbaz if i find time later...

RE: Shahbaz

wow....you have possibly pin pointed what desi women are afraid of in terms of their sexuality. it is frightening for me to see that if the word sex is said, the negative reaction to it. it is not as if i go around preaching for everyone to have sex or for young children to etcetc. i have not have sex and i do not plan to till i get married. if my husband asks me to not move, make a sound or lie still, i will divorce him on the spot. sex is not something that one should submit to. it is the act of joining two people together, physically AS WELL AS emotionally. the emotional compound is so damn important, and its not sumthing that people realize. sex is not purely physical. ( this is sounding like your aunts romantic notions i suppose, but im young, naive and unadultered at this point, lets leave it that way and put down this hopeful wishful response as a fault of my young age.) also, the comment you made about hijabi women...to some extent i do agree. they are bundles of repressiveness. my saying this is hypocritical since i myself wear hijab. i do not however identify with the average, typical hijab wearing woman. ( i gave up grouping myself with others. it did not work. i was/am too `liberal` for the hijab wearers and for the non hijab wearers..well they couldnt/cant really see past the hijab ). It is wrong to go malign a normal human function that Allah has for us to enjoy and bond with. thank you for your reply, and i love you too man :)

re: sabrina

your response made little sense to me. i have never identified myself as a slut and i will ask you to refrain from name calling and vague observations about women you dont know. If sex is unappleaing for you and is something that you will not enjoy and be therefore a vessel for your husband, then by all means, be it so. for those of us who have romantic notions about sex not just being sex but actully making love, let us be. i do not buy into the market that is run on sexual imagery. televison or movies have not given me this view. i do not feel that by openly admitting to loving men and possibly enjoying sex that i am liberating myself in any way or that it makes me stronger. They are in fact, just true statements that i was happy somone else was also stating. if the character in the story is shown as insecure or weak, that is her problem. she and i have something in common...we love men and we fall in and out of lust easily. that is where the similarity ends. i am a very spiritual person and see god and beauty in most everything.

``howzz that?`` thazz just fine.

z. rizvi.

Re: Zehra

Slut-Sexually immoral woman. A derogatory word.

I ask you to give me a term equivalent to the above that describes the male.

You took the character at face value. And in doing so confused her voice as that being one of an independent woman. There is much more to independence than creating waves with superficial boldness in conservative societies where women are forced into the defensive, when innocent desires like enjoying male friendship gets them the label sluts. Which might send some women into wanting to carry that label in combat mode.

Engaging in a normal sexual relationship is healthy, IMO (islamic moralities aside). Most relationships IMO, fall into varying degrees of commitment, by the individual`s own standards. I gather from your response that these women lay open to the label slut because they engage in the sexual aspect of a relationships as well? So that that these `strong` women are sluts. Right on logic, huh? Most of these women will present you with a stinging slap. Enuff said.

Howzz that?

sabrina.

re shahbaz

unsolicited advice appreciated, but i dont think so. dont take distrust of ``men in general`` so personally ;-)

You are NOT 22!!!...:)

re anotherwoman: did i have a scathing reply for you the first time?

as for who is stepping on who`s toes..i think we all get a turn.

shandana (waiting in line) minhas

re critic: i never claimed to be an authority on anything including sex/men&women. i`m glad you enjoyed reading it, but i think it`s pretty harsh of you to judge (not just me but all 22 year olds out there)by those of my articles that you`ve read.

i also know an awful lot about chilli chips.

shandana

Re: BG

Re my comment on lesbians being kinder and gentler towards other women than most straight women are: yup, that was a generalization on my part based only on personal experience over the last 26 years, but since you`ve studied the issue formally, I defer to your greater knowledge...

Re your displeasure with sex being used as a means of selling and inducing consumption: I totally agree. In a consumerist culture, anything that sells and creates profit is ethically acceptable or atleast value-neutral. Thus, promiscuity and sexual license become tolerable or even encouraged as non-threatening, GDP increasing activities. Sex becomes a commodity and loses its moral/social relevance. Sabrina hit the nail on the head when she said that much promiscuous behavior stems from a fear of intimacy. Consumerism plays well on this fear, reinforcing the need to fill the emptiness and lack of intimacy with things and more things. But that`s a topic for another article altogether... any takers??

Re your question about gay men being more well-groomed than straight guys:

:))))))

Not only are we more well-groomed, my dear, but we`re also more handsome, more intelligent, more charming, better dancers, more artistic, more sensitive, and better dressed! Yes, all you straight men out there could learn a lot from us. ;-)

Seriously, though, gay men are just like the rest of `em, perhaps a bit more vain since we all want to look like Antonio Sabato, Jr., but there are slobs among us as well...

I`ve thought about writing an article on growing up as a gay Pakistani Muslim (since there seems to be denial of the existence of such a creature), but I don`t know if the Chowk readership would be interested.

As for you heteros, perhaps you appear ``messed up`` because of the unbalanced portrayal of dysfunctional, unhappy heterosexual desi relationships presented on Chowk over the last year. Maybe someone needs to show us what a healthy Pakistani relationship is like...

Your article confirms my belief that at the tender age of twenty-two, it`s hard to be an authority on any subject except sex and men/women. Nevertheless, enjoyed reading it.

re shandana

i guess i misunderstood your piece. the narrator`s wit, intelligence and cynicism really threw me off. i was convinced that she was a strong and empowered woman, but i couldnt reconcile some of her attitudes and behaviours with each other. but, upon reflection, i see what you pointed out and am less confused.

re kafir
``Re BG: It`s true that women`s hatred toward other women is scary and sad, but only women can change that. As a gay man, I`m often privy to `girltalk` with my `girlfriends`, talk that straight men rarely ever hear, and I know that many women habitually backbite each other and put each other down out of jealousy and competition for male affection. They subconsciously feel that true worth comes from being attractive to and liked by men, and so they end up stepping on other women in order to achieve this status. ``

yes, but i dont agree that only women can change that. in a society that teaches you that true worth and power is relational, ie, you can only have it if you have access to a man, his approval and his power -- then women and their behaviour is rational within this logic. we are not going to suddenly wake up and realize it all on their own, but we are certainly the ones who have to fight for it.

by the way, is it true that gay men tend to be better groomed than your average straight guy? (if i`m just buying into a stereotype, i apologize in advance, but would appreciate some education)

kafir: ``Many lesbians, on the other hand, having no desire to be attractive to men, tend to treat other women much more kindly and less judgmentally (unfortunately, they also tend to dislike men more).``

i do not, absolutely DO NOT agree with this generalization. did you know that when i studied violence against women, there were a whole series of writings on domestic/partner violence within the lesbian community? i know some very kind and some really obnoxious lesbians/bisexual women. and similarly i know some heinous and some wonderful staright women.


kafir: ``I disagree that sex is overrated in our modern culture, though it is overemphasized as a source of happiness and fulfilment. Sex can be FABULOUS as an expression of genuine affection and love between two people, but it becomes boring and empty when seen as an end in itself or as a tool for control. But perhaps I`m just projecting my own feelings onto the issue. Perhaps some people, like the fictional narrator of Shandana`s piece, can simply enjoy the physical act without an emotional connection. Both are very human responses.``

i suppose we are talking about slightly different things. i am just sick and tired of popular culture preoccupation with sex as the end all and be all of everthing, especially as a means of selling and inducing consumption. of course, there are the related issues of misogyny, objectification, abuse, control, etc. that are societal distortions to sex. i happen to believe that sex is not purely a physical thing for humans, but, that`s just my opinion...

hey, watch out with the stereotyping and generalizations about us heteroes...you should know better than that ;-)

so, how does someone who so openly a man`s (men`s?) woman manage to settle down and get married? guess youll have to get used to bathroom bonding afterall, even if its of a different kind. i can see how you can talk of so many women out there who cant see your point of view and would retaliate to your actions and call you a slut, hence causing their level of moral rightiousness to take an unprecedented increase (`shock, horror! `look at her! she did WHAT? i couldnt never do THAT!`- and its prolly their loss that they never will), but they arent the only ones there, supposing there are two of the very same kind as your character. who steps on whose toes and does the one with the guy always win? just wondering. im sure youll have a scathing reply for me yet again. in the from of another story maybe? well, either way, i really liked scaly.

Excellent work!

Great piece to sit and discuss . . . not enough time though so perhaps next time. . . .

sabrina --

Well summarized. Character appears to have rationalized her chosen path.

Loved it.

Absolutely loved it.

I couldn`t really be bothered in dibble dabbling in the comments that have been swirling around your work and the ideas *frightful ideas * that it must have conjured. Although, I have to say that it was most definately a fantastic piece of work that was powerful enough to invoke such responses... two thumbs up!

-Uzma.

Shandy,

hi! my gosh. quite thrilled to read your stuff. you are a big shot writer now. congrats. enjoyed the stuff really.

mas

Shandana: Great article as always.

Re Kafir:

Speaking of which, you should check out Vanishing point by Sheldon Pacotti - you will find it interesting

re: sabrina.

Most women, or rather ppl, i know, need to label themselves in one category or anoother. it gives them a sense of belonging, i suppose. it has always been hard for me to find a category to place myself in and about five to six years ago, i made my own cateogory, the z.rizvi cateogory. this cateogry was devoid of what i considered myself ( paki?? american?? muslim??) or how old i was, if i wore hijab or not and what my favorite color was or not. it is a satisfying place to be and i have discovered that i dont need labels to place myself in. i go around telling other friends the same thing. most ppl cannot handle being left out in the open, defenseless and different. however, getting back to the point u made about my wanting to come out of the closet as a slut...well, just because i happen to love men, love looking at them, talking to them and being with them does not mean i sleep with them, or that anything goes beyond friendship. its also not sumthing women in general advertise about( being more comfortable with men then women)...becuz, it gets them labled as sluts :))) the reason slink`s piece was so great fer me was cuz, women are afraid to voice out loud what she voiced out loud. why are they afraid?...cuz they are sluts, who will live to be bitter old women in empty apartments, instead of mature women with their own lives, who prefer their own private space and time in which they can do what they want from reading, meditating, shopping, vegging, and possibly even at the bitter old age, find love. ( it takes some more time than others, but hey...atleast they will find it and if not, they arent stuck in some marraige that they regret but could care less about geting out of)

love is not sumthing that one should make one dimensional. there are so many many facets to it.

your response made me realize, sabrina, exactly why i dont look forward to talking to most women. thank you...i needed to be reminded of it once again :))

z.rizvi.

I found this piece interesting mainly because I recognise very well the character portrayed; a pitiable, obviously defensive and bitter woman who self-deludes herself into thinking that her grass although not fantastically greener than anything else possessed by another`s hands is still in better condition than others. Well, just what else can she do? If you are given something, you work with it. For instance small breasts. Same way with her attitude towards her fellow women and men. She belives her attitude was given her!

It is how she reacts towards them that determines how they respond to her. Sadly, she contents herself with delusions that her field of grass is meant to be grazed-by a herd of cows. Be forewarned that eventual barrenness will set in. How`s that for jadedness? For a woman in her forties and fifties? But nah, ain`t too contemporary to think that far ahead....



What suprises me are the responses by the readers.

Especially the one by the gushing woman, Zahra. Go ahead and label yourself a slut if you will. I will laugh (disparingly) at you and anyone else who imagines that declaring oneself with such labels wins one self-independence (from whatever neurotic insecurities bred within them over years) or even confidence. Nope! You know why the label becomes sacred? Just because deep down you know exactly a slut is what she is. And fearing you don`t really have a choice to be otherwise, that label becomes something to be championed.

Yeah right! Loving men and sex is normal. But doing it excessively signals a defect in the person. How about fear of intimacy-and I don`t mean spreading legs while standing on your head kind of intimacy.

Let us not make martyrs of people who know not what they are sacrificing themselves for.

Lust? Hell, that is one of the most safest thing to feel and to act upon. The stirring of your loins come and go. What is hard is staying in lust. Which is why parting ways is not often very difficult. It is the game of the cowards.

I had one for brunch (yeah late waker), tea and dinner. Throw in a midnight bite as well! Cool ain`t it. I love men. You love women. And the mutual service ensues, sometimes fondness is allowed in. But not too much..lest emotions get confused.

As for love, that`s entering a whole different field. The neurotic character scoffs at the image of a woman waiting for her man to return(from wherever), that only when he does, she becomes complete. What irony. She prefers returning to an empty dingy apartment perhaps reeking of the cologne her latest conquest had on. Does she strip the clothes off and wash away the remmants of his presence or savour triumphantly the fading moment from time to time in a closetful of such trophies?

Imagine this instead-walking into a room and knowing that your mere presence evokes something more than the gentleman`s salute. Knowing that your inclusion into that person`s domain makes a helluva difference. And trusting enough to be able to shed more layers than that which cover your physical nakedness.



Until you find that mutual feeling, you ain`t lived life yet. No matter how many brunches, teas and dinners you`ve had. Now that`s a game for the lions.

Having said that, I commend the writer! Brilliant piece of work. The voice of the character is true to life. It is that which makes this piece a gem.

Kudos to you:)

sabrina.

Kafir, I`m surprised the fundos haven`t jumped on you yet. Perhaps they were too traumatised by reading the story?

You certainly have done it! I`m surprised the fundies haven`t started attacking yet. Perhaps the honesty and temerity of your words have left them speechless...

Re BG: It`s true that women`s hatred toward other women is scary and sad, but only women can change that. As a gay man, I`m often privy to `girltalk` with my `girlfriends`, talk that straight men rarely ever hear, and I know that many women habitually backbite each other and put each other down out of jealousy and competition for male affection. They subconsciously feel that true worth comes from being attractive to and liked by men, and so they end up stepping on other women in order to achieve this status. Many lesbians, on the other hand, having no desire to be attractive to men, tend to treat other women much more kindly and less judgmentally (unfortunately, they also tend to dislike men more).

I disagree that sex is overrated in our modern culture, though it is overemphasized as a source of happiness and fulfilment. Sex can be FABULOUS as an expression of genuine affection and love between two people, but it becomes boring and empty when seen as an end in itself or as a tool for control. But perhaps I`m just projecting my own feelings onto the issue. Perhaps some people, like the fictional narrator of Shandana`s piece, can simply enjoy the physical act without an emotional connection. Both are very human responses.

After reading this and several other articles on male-female sexuality and relationships, I am SOOO glad that I`m gay. You heterosexuals are really messed up! ;-)

re faisal: to be absolutely honest i`ve never read any of the novels/novellas you mentioned.i have thought about expanding this, but i rarely (if ever) edit my work or even go back to it. as soon as a piece is done i send it off somewhere or call my best friend and insist on reading it to him. this is prolly why they`re all so short..so i can be sure i can hold his attention :)

i dont know if brevity is the soul of wit, but it`s what i`m used to working with, something i`m trying to remedy :)

re bg: you mentioned that you found the womans hatred for other women scary, as did arif. but when i was writing it i intended her hatred for herself to be scarier and leap out more with remarks like ``greeted enthusiastically by a hearthrug`` etc.i guess that was what i was trying to say really, that everyone`s human.

BUT be that as it may, thank you (as always)for responding honestly.

shandana (arifarifarif) minhas

SM

Interesting piece--evocative and provocative too. Your wicked sense of humour shows through in all the three pieces I have read here. You have balls!

First person narration is a gamble. You have almost pulled it off.

Know any shrinks that charge more than I do?

regards

hey, ya`ll. remember it is fiction, confessions of the other woman.

i found this scary to read. all that hatred for women from another woman (and i am not confusing the author with the character here). isnt that just about the most awful thing about patriarchy and the absolute dearth of power for, who else, the powerless: they beat each other up all the time, making the fight easier for the rulers.

i have to say, i dont love men. just love people, whether they are men or women. more distrustful of men, in general. and as far as sex goes: i think it is one of most overrated things in modern society with vogue and bollywood and hollywood and every magazine and hoarding and bill board and movie and survey and cooking oil and car and condom telling us that being sexual objects (if we are women) and virile and `having more of it` (if we are men) is the ultimate in life. i beg to disagree: been there done, that...whatever...it another capitalist-patriarchal conspiracy to keep us preoccupied with it (probably because not enough of us are occupied with it) :)

A great buildup and lots of promise at first, but then what happened? Perhaps this was a subject that should not have been condensed. Expand, elaborate and evolve the plot and characters and you have a dynamite.

It is a pleasure to peek into brave and honest minds. I`m glad we have the likes of you among us.

...SR

My Goddess (and i don`t mean the character described by the author, i mean the author herself), I bow myself at the altar of thy words.

Seriously though, much like Spew, I found this slightly disturbing the first time I read it... perhaps reflections of my own self, albeit with the mirror facing the other way. But yet, there was something that creeps through... there is always something in your writing that creeps through and lingers. Perhaps it`s the way what you writes applies to most of us... or at least those honest enough to recognise our wants, our vulnerabilities, our frailities.

I will personally kick the ass of anyone who dares to suggest that you are wasting your time in Karachi.

Shandana,

Based on my understanding, I have a question regarding your somewhat ‘Bovarian’ story. The content is not new; let me for the sake of my own vanity mention a few sources.

Hadi Ruswa used it in his brilliant novel “Umrao Jan” (considered by many to be the first novel in Urdu literature).

Manto used it in parts and Ismat somewhat contained it in ‘Terhi Lakeer.’

And of course one cannot forget Flaubert.

Mostly this theme is delivered in larger texts such as Novels or Novellas. I assume it is because the landscape is manifold.

Why were you so laconic- if you don’t mind me saying that- in your effort? Is brevity really the soul of wit?

Regards,

Faisal

Absolutly LOVELY!

You will have people finding their way out of the woodwork now to claim that they TOO love men. i have, always said i have, always will and am damn proud of it. Just last week, someone had the teremity to tell ME that i like leading men on. Taking a look at me, its hard to belive that somone who wears hijab can acomplish something like that. i tired to explain that it is the MEN themselves who get led on, not that i mind :) it`s all in a look or a smile. and its a lovely feeling :) my only chance of keeping my marraige alive, is to find a man that i can flirt with for the rest of my life. seems like a futile exercise, but im having a damn good time seeing if he exists. in fact, i forget at times i am looking ;) GOd bless men and the way they keep life interesting.

z.rizvi