And now, the army!

Came across this article while searching on Ali Quli Khan. I wonder what the author thinks of Gen (retired) Musharraf now? And what Lt. Gen. (retired) Ali Quli Khan thinks of the President?

Zeejah you're back? You're my fav writer in the same league as FV.

Never forgot your 'The Puppet'.

(Zeemax)

WAKE UP? ... i guess i was one of the few who were awake... 2007 is proof of that...;)

Where can I find your book? I read your article titled, `Magician and the Dreamer`...I was mesmerized. Thanks and regards,

my email is

NadirKh@aol.com

Nadir Khan

Dear Zeejah

I am having a serious problem so i need the email and any other contact information of Gen. Musharaf

Plz let me know as soon as possible.

Thanking you in advance for your earliest and positive response

By the way your article was very impressive

My email is fahadik@yahoo.com

Thanks

With kind regards,

Fahad

Just came across this article in the chowk archives. I must clarify something here. It is astonishing to see the author rely on ethnic arguments to justify her points.

First of all, of all the institutions in Pakistan, the military is on of the least influenced by internal ethnic strife. Thank God, for that. Military officers loyalty is to the military first, and then to their provinces, ethnicities etc. Thank God, for that, as well. This does not mean there aren`t minor ethnic groupings in the military, at the higher ranks. But they are just that, very minor.

Any officer who makes it to the rank of Lieutenant General, Air Marshall, or Vice Admiral, is militarily very competent, and qulaified to lead the branch of the military to which he belongs. At that stage it becomes a political decision regarding who will become the Chief of Staff. In fact, on the basis of merit, it is almost impossible to decide, who is more compotent. The Lieutenant Generals themselves understand that. In many cases, especially in the Air Force, the senior most officer has not become the Chief of Staff.

If General Khattak was not made the chief, the decision was more political than ethnic. So the author`s argument`s make absolutely no sense. If you take a look at the PAF, most of the officers commanding it have been from the NWFP, and almost all of them were made Chiefs of Staff by-passing other officers senior to them. This may not be common in the legal profession, but it is quite common at the highest ranks of the military.

It is impossible to decide whom among the candidates was professionally more competent to become the the head of the Army. But I am certain, the decision was based on politics, then on ethnicity.

For Zeejah

GOING WITH PERVEZ MUSHARRAF AS COAS

By

A Comrade in Arms:

It is unfortunate that I have come cross your article so late, otherwise I would have nipped your emotional and inherent biases in the bud. A lot has happened since October so lets first catch up:

a) It is widely believed that Ali Quli was involved in serious political intrigue in the two days prior to the appointment of the COAS.

b) Pervez Musharraf has proved himself as a man of word and deed (judging key appointments after his takeover, impartial prosecution across the political divide in the WAPDA drive, JCSC issue). Contrary to prevailing thought in October, he is not following any inherent political agenda except one for the good of the nation.

Now digging back into what you so carelessly posted and seem to blindly believe. Let me inform you that there was never a doubt in the military circles as to who was more professionally competent. Musharraf’s military career is as unique as it is stellar:

1) He was battalion JUO at PMA, marking him among the 12 top cadets at the 29th PMA long course. (Sword of Honour holder for that course was Shabir Sharif __ Nishan-e-Haider.)

2) He received the award of Imtiazi Sanad after the 1965 war for bravery reported in a battle incident. (slink * take a look at your source about Musharraf’s supposed avoidance of the battle front).

3) Musharraf served seven years with the Special Services Group (slink * take a second look at your source about Musharraf’s supposed avoidance of action).

4) He excelled in all command and staff positions that were due for his rank. Gunnery Staff Course, Pakistan Staff Course (Staff College-Quetta, also instructor there later), Armed Forces War Course (National Defence College-Rawalpindi, also instructor there later), and Geo-Strategy at the Royal College of Defence Studies-London (went as a Brigadier in 1989 and was declared ‘best’ international officer amongst officers from India, Israel, US etc..). It is a fact that Ali Quli was sent to Sandhurst from PMA, however when we evaluate the qualifications for being the Chief of the Army Staff, we must take into account the entire career of an officer. Focusing on when an officer was a gentleman cadet training to be an officer is not at all appropriate.

5) Coming from an Artillery background he got outstanding reports as a commander of an Infantry brigade (Bahawalpur) and an Armoured Division (Okara). His last appointment before becoming COAS was as the Corps Commander of Pakistan Army’s primary offensive Corps.: 1 Corps, Mangla.

You expose your military naiveté when you hail the CGS and PSO positions as the end all of all qualifications for the COAS. Even though the CGS is considered second in command of the Army, when the Army Chief leaves the country, it is the senior most Corps Commander that normally prevails as ‘acting’ Chief. Field command outweighs staff appointments any day. Even so, Musharraf has held key staff appointments throughout his career:

As a Col.: Deputy Directory Military Operations (DDMO)

As a Brig: Deputy Military Secretary (DMS)

As a Maj Gen: Director General Military Operations (DGMO, this is when AQK was DMI)

All that having said, I want to address some of the inherent biases that you seem to harbour and I would like to advise you to not base your judgment solely on drawing room conversations, you will lose credibility as an objective writer. You must also know that Ali Quli had guardian angels clearing his path throughout his career, you may call it ethnic bias, you may call it socio-economic bias, you may call it military bias (coming from a well established military household). An example from the not too distant past is when General Wahid Kakar (the former COAS) protected Ali Quli’s credibility as a leader of men following a bewildering ambush incident in Sindh, where he had fled from the scene (leaving personnel who were killed by dacoits). Not every officer has the ‘backing’ to survive such incidents.

Your constant mention of Ali Quli as a good Muslim implies that Musharraf is not? Pray tell me, how the Quaid M. A. Jinnah, fairs in your judgment of ‘good’ Muslims. As the Propher (PBUH) said, “A Momin is he, whose presence in society is felt as a benefit to ALL and whose absence is felt as a grievous loss.” I wonder how you have ‘good’ Muslims defined for yourself.

You’ve referred to a suspected duo of Gohar Ayub and Ali Quli at the time of the COAS appointment as a ‘strong’ alliance that Nawaz Sharif felt threatened by. Let’s just say that Ali Quli’s political leanings had started much before that. A dynamic ‘trio’ of Ali Quli-Leghari (AQK’s schoolmate)-Gohar Ayub (AQK’s brother-in-law) was in the writing. Whatever good can be assumed about these individuals, each is unfortunately infected with the virus of perceiving a birth right to authority in Pakistan.

Affiliations that Ali Quli intended to use as last nails in the coffin of the COAS decision backfired and he has no one else to blame for that except himself. His resignation, followed by his son’s resignation (a captain in the Army), demeans the vows that are taken to defend one’s homeland.

Wake up Ms. Zeejah and step out of the pre-conceived notions that you harbour about people, this is NOT the way we want to grapple with our future.

re RR...

hate and haste... just an `s` to differentiate them... yet, I wonder, was it a freudian slip?...;)

...a hasty response generally taps a deeper reservoir of emotional content ...

and ethnic identity has a longer history than national identity... maybe we all (including myself) are more biased than we would like to believe?... i hope not...:)

...as for `Pukhtoonkhwa` ... how can you name a province after pukhtoons and ignore the other ethnic races living there?... though the pakhtoons are more vociferous, I don`t think they form a majority in the Frontier.... besides,

belonging to a pukhtoon family that fought for Pakistan during the infamous 1947 referendum, I wouldn`t like Bacha Khan et al (read Congress Party) to have the last laugh, by allowing Pakhtoonistan through the back door....;)

as for newspapers on the net... I read the newspapers in the morning and I am up to here with clinton and monica; the `virtues` of nawaz shareef and diana `the undieable`

... I use the net for fulfilling other interests/hobbies, including chatting on IRC (dalnet) ...drop in sometime....:)

While I might be flogging a dead horse, I am prompted by something interesting on the Wall Street Journal (October 21, 98) Front Page

Quote:

Military leaders are warning troops to avoid ``insulting, rude or disdainful`` comments about Clinton, including Lewinsky jokes. Senior officers are responding to recent newspaper columns and letters written by military personnel on the scandal.

unquote

Re: Zeejah

I wanna clarify something here. I have never been part of MQM or any party for that matter. I was just a teenager when I left Pakistan. I do not support separatist, sectarian or ethnic tendencies of any kind in politics. Some of MY best friends are from Punjab and Pakhtoonkhoa.

This is unrelated but you know why I insist on Pakhtoonkhoa? Because I totally support this name. NWFP is a British legacy which takes away the identity of the people of this province. If Punjab is where Punjabis live, Sindh is where Sindhis live, Balochistan is where Balochis live and nobody has any objection to the names that they evoke ethnic separatism, then, Pakhtoonkhoa or Pakhtoonistan should be where Pakhtoons live, period.

Anyway, some of my comments came out in hate and in spite of your tone and innuendos in your article and were totally wrong and were just not who I really am, and I`m really sorry about them. I believe that poor people in Pakistan are all suffering under the elitisit governments of the past and the present and a total political revoluation of sort is the only solution. PPP or PML, they are all the same.

But let me say something here. I think what has happened here is exactly what`s wrong with Pakistan. People, in their passion, go too far in their arguments and provoke similar sentiments in other people. The result is the rise of ethnic and sectarian parties that flame those tendencies trapping the country in this vicious circle.

I think we should consider the system of second and third drafts before sending our feelings to be published. Similarly, we must learn to think before we speak for that saves us all from all that can go wrong. Emotions can decieve us from realizing our true destiny. I really am sorry about my previous comments.

Oh! BTW, any reason why you don`t like reading papers on the net? I`m intrigued.

Correction:

Don`t be alarmed when you read the word ``hate`` in my last response. The correct word is HASTE and I spelled it wrong as I was in a hurry. Ironic, isn`t it? Actually, THAT is very Pakistani indeed. Aye Carramaba!

re shafqat:

Yes, Kirdar is correct...it is a possibility...but it is not a fact...:)

The name Quli does not stand for any feudal aristocracy... it is merely the name of Ali Quli`s Grandfather... there is no feudal or aristrocrat in Ali Quli`s background.... :)

re Kirdar...

Yes, selection for Sandhurt training can be politically motivated... but how do we explain the cadets performance while there?... or do our politicians pull strings at Sandhurt too?....:)

Flying out of BD was not a desertion... it was ordered by the top brass... the behaviour of Ali et al is commendable since they obeyed the orders under extremely dangerous circumstances.

I whole heartedly agree...it is the institutions that are at risk in Pakistan... it is the institutions that matter... and each has being torn down systematically...and now the army!

re maliani ...:

The

re were dacoits ... there was political victimisation... i remember the time ...the highways were unsafe to the ordinary citizen...is that not a fact?

re RR...

1.....`Always` is a big word...no group, ethnic or otherwise, is ALWAYS...outspoken...freedom loving ...etc etc...merely because lots of different ppl make up a group...:)

2....as for Gen Ayub Khan... yes ... unfortunately I am related to him by marriage...we try to forget that though...:) ... my father, Yusuf Khattak, was the leader of opposition during the dark days of the first Martial Law .... until removed from the political scene by the ``basic democrats`` elections ... Gen. Habibullah, Ali`s father, was removed as CGS by Ayub Khan, (the post used to be called COAS then, i think) to make way for the more pliable, and less meritorious Gen. Musa .. for almost the same reasons his son has been superceded.... history DOES have a habit of repeating itself ... as i pointed out to NS in my article..:)

3.....I dont accept the term `Pukhtoonkhwa` ... it is too remiscent of the referendum ... i prefer the non-comittal NWFP or Frontier... :)

4.... I would like to ask though...if pathans and punjabis have (admittedly) commited various crimes... (as have the urdu speaking community) .... does that condone Altaf Hussains crimes? ... do 2 wrongs make a right?.... but the point I was trying to make is that, when the PM of a country meets with a person who has been declared a proclaimed offender by the courts of his country ... what messages does that give people about respecting the law?

5....MY AQK KHATTAK...is not a taliban supporter... he is too good a muslim for that ... besides being too enlightened....:)

6.... No, the taliban are not a peace loving bunch... If I voice my opinions about the taliban, this reply will be censored...;)

7... That is exactly what upset me ..... the COAS should NOT be a political consideration... the security of a country depends on his sagacity...witness what happened with Gen. Zia...wouldnt you agree?

8.... When I speak of Punjab`s dominance.... I mean the province of Punjab... and not with ethnic bias... its a purely provincial/financial/developmental matter.... some of my best friends are punjabis... :)

9.... I dont get the Dawn... it arrives too late in the day (in Peshawar) ... and I dont read newspapers on the net ... although i do know that Dawn has some fine writers.....Cowasjee, Kaleem Omar and Ghazi Salahudding being amongst my favourite writers....:)

From the sublime to the ridiculous! The Chowk front page quickly descends from a discussion on Amartya Sen to consider the relative capabilties of potential Jalld-in-Chiefs for the country. Roles in oppressive and bloody episodes appropriately show up as meritorious qualifications. Such is the tragic situation in which we find ourselves.

Re--Mr. RR`s comments:

The people from NWFP and other places who migrated to Karachi are as authentic Karachiites as Altaf Hussein. They do not need anyone`s permission to be there. Incidently, they have also played as significant a role in the construction of the city`s economic, social and cultural life, as those whose mother tongue happens to be Urdu.

tariq ahsan

Here`s the deal. The author, complaining about Punjab`s bias, is as much biased herself against always outspoken Mohajirs and the always freedom loving Sindhis. Yes, I completely agree, that in the guise of operation clean-up, the army was sent to wipe out the MRD movement in Sindh. Scores were killed, imprisoned and maimed and nobody could know about it because ``professional`` soldiers, like AQKK, from NWFP and Punjab were just following orders of their leader.

The fact is that Ms. ZJ wouldn`t talk about how another General, yet another relativer of her`s, Gohar Ayub` father, from Pakhtoonkhoa dictated over Pakistan for ten years. His first ``professional`` order of business was to send home the senior Mohajir civil servants, all 400 of them, home to Karachi. He was the brilliant man who brought the `honor loving` Pathans to Karachi to colonize it. Drugs, guns and kidnappings of children followed soon.

She blames ``proclaimed offender`` Altaf Hussain for Gen. Musharraf`s promotion. No Ma`am. More pathans and Punjabis have violated the constitution, a crime punishable by death, and broken the law than any Altaf Hussain. And they are all glorified in the history for saving Pakistan. If you find fault with Gen. Musharraf`s promotion because he`s a Mohajir, you clearly imply that that may be the case, then you are no different than Punjabis.

The fact is that your AQK KHATTAK, if the rumor is true, a Taliban supporter. The same people who would rather have you sit at home do nothing than let you voice your opinion on the net. Wait, they wouldn`t allow the internet. And please don`t start about how the good and peace making Talibans are. We all know the truth.

But, don`t get me wrong, I think Gen. Musharraf`s ethnicity WAS the factor in his promotion. You know why? Not because Altaf wanted it. Because Nawaz Sharif wanted it. You see, being a lonely Mohajir at the top, he doesn`t have any following in the lower ranks. If he decides to show PM the exit door, Punjabi and Pathan soldiers wouldn`t take orders from him BECAUSE he is a Mohajir. Anyway, COAS is a political office and political considerations have always taken a priority over any ``professionalism.``

IF you are honest, as you say you are, then educate yourself about Pakistan`s history from a different angle. This isn`t to say you are not right about the dominance of Punjab over smaller provinces. But you say it for the wrong reason. For a more interesting reading about the topic I`d suggest the recent column by Cowasjee in today`s Dawn. Very apt and makes a point.

Kirdar says:

``It is a posssibility that GAKK was not on merit but glorified because of family connections, feudal links as is common in the country.``

With a name like `Quli`, I thought he came from a tribe in FATA, not any kind of feudal aristocracy. However, as a middle-class academic, I know next to nothing about these issues and trust you are correct. The fact that this fellow is a connected feudal changes everything. For an outsider like Musharraf to be a general alongside him probably means that Musharraf is ten times as good. In Pakistan, as in other Third World countries, the meaning of the word `merit` has been obscured. Evidence: informed intelligentsia like Ms. Jahan confuse merit with things like seniority. I don`t condone it, but I must say it`s understandable. Had I been a feudal aristocrat, I, too, would not have known any better.

Saad Shafqat

Free speech does not permit officials to use their offices against the chief executive. This is not even acceptable in the most powerful democracies. If their is severe disagreement in obeying orders from the superiors, the subordinate has to go.

GJK`s statement was illogical and impractical. Most of editorials in the leading dailies next day critisized the intrusion of the armed forces in the civilian affairs - see DAWN, Nawa-e-Waqt.

What to lament the economic insolvency when the scribes in the country have become so intellectually bankrupt & provincially biased that they cannot see the desire of GJK and coterie to gain the power from back door.

Intelligence agencies report what they desire. Their reports are biased and written in the drawing rooms. Proof is the poor law and order in the country, no knowledge of Ameircan missile attack etc. etc. In some cases involved in destabilizing the country.

It is a posssibility that GAKK was not on merit but glorified because of family connections, feudal links as is common in the country.

Selection for Sandhurst training can be politically motivated. One Sandhurst trained was MLA and deprived the country from democracy.

May be GPM was kept out of gloried training courses since he did not have the necessary clout.

Flying out of BD is no honour at the time of surrender. Some will say it was desertion.

All generals are reported by the press are professional, brave and non interfering in the civilian affair. None is proved to be so.

People do not matter. Institutions matter. This should now be realized by our country people.

The views expressed by the former COAS Gen. Karamat were not his own, but rather reflected the views of an institution; the armed forces. He was openly voicing a consensus, that emerged at the last corps commanders` meeting, in which the corps commanders were highly critical of Nawaz Sharif`s ability to deal with the present situation.

The critical assumption here is not what he said, but that Nawaz Sharif has not heeded the warning: the armed forces have grown tired of his ``insecurity driven policies`` for personal gains and that Nawaz Sharif is gaining too much power and at the same time is totally underming the political institutions of the country; presidency, courts and now the military.

The writing is on the wall; whether Nawaz Sharif reads is up to him....

Re Zeejah

Being a journanlist your response was quite odd. I can provide you reports on human rights violation during Zia`s era in Sindh collected by local and international human rights agencies. You can also look up Herald and other unbiased magazines/newspapers from that era. Next, you`ll say that Balochs who revolted against the injustices of the federal government when their popularly elected government was dismissed and fought for their rights from 73-77 were dacoits as well. And what about poor Bengalis? were they dacoits as well ????

You should be idolizing Bacha Khan and not Gen Kuli Khan. Bacha Khan was the true hero of NWFP (Pakhtoonkhwa) and a peoples man.

As a punjabi and a member of one of those zamindar families who are constantly being blamed for everything including the price of tea in china,I couldnt agree with you more.

Without a doubt there are serious ethnocentric

issues at play in Pakistan,however I dont think

discrimnation is the case here.General Musharraf

was chosen solely because he lacks the backbone

to stand up to anyone..ie Nawaz ..the West.

I have never met Gen Ali Quli Khan personally

but know of him through A family member who served

with him.I understand him to be of impeccable

character and unassailable faith.These comments

were relayed to me by a Punjabi General(maybe

were not all biased!)

Its is a sad day indeed when the Lion hearted

Ali Quli khan has been superceeded by a junior

officer(the two simply cannot be compared).All

of this to placate the egos of the Cowards who

rule our beautiful country(by Cowards I mean

both goverments, former and current)

Please forgive me for my run-on sentences and poor prose..after all we punjabi are only known for

our pugs and and our guns...but I plead to you

dear readers we are not all that bad....there is

good and bad everywhere..

Allah Hafiz

Be good to your fellow man,Allah forgives everything else.

re imran:

the gentleman in question could have nothing to gain by sharing this information with me. the circle he moves in is restricted to his family. he has, by choice, little or no contact with the men he once worked with. the twist in the story is that he is a roman catholic, and there are many out there who would feel his religion undermines his credibility. he has no airs, graces or pretensions, and please note that he stressed upon musharrafs good qualities first, and did not say that the fact the he was combat wary made him a bad man or unfit for the job. that is my conclusion, i was merely sharing it.

Dear Zeenath,

Though I am from India I have

always taken interest in Pakistani politics. I

have even read some of the internet editions

of Pakistani newspapers. There is one observation

that I must make which applies to you and many

columnists of the english papers from Pakistan.

You guys are toooooooo pessimistic!

For some reason your word-processor and mind

have this ability to quickly transform

seemingly innocous events into a make-or-break

earth-shaking watersheds for Pakistan`s destiny.

Whether it is th IMF negotiations or Kalabagh

Dam or Shariat Law or the mindless persecution

of Junoon, there is always this element

of conspiracy lurking around, ready to pounce

on Pakistan and deprieve its noble inhabitants

of their cherished homeland. In the meantime

the queue outside Western embassies is getting

longer and longer. Who is standing in these

lines- sons of generals, editors, bureacracts!

All hell will not break loose just because

one general has superseded another one. This

has been going on for ages and will keep going

on for ever. If General Zia was corrupt and

surrounded by sychophants, how come Lt. Gen.

Ali Quli, upright and honorable, managed to

make his mark. He should have been discarded

long ago.

And the reason why he was superseded was

not becuase he is a Pushtoon but because

he is closely associated with the Taliban.

In all likelihood Pakistan allies, US and

Iran, vetoed his nomination. Grist for another

column.

Regards,

Sanjay

The Chief of General Staff (CGS), Ali Quli Khan, resigned on Monday - official sources have confirmed the report.

Zeejah,

quote

Dismay that, if free speech was denied to the highest in the echelons of power.

unquote

I am dismayed that you seem to propose the rule of the mob. Any organization works as a single voice and any transgression of the rule results in immediate termination. This by no means eliminates the person`s right to advise his superior of his views without making a public comment.

If a person disagrees with the operation of an organization, he should first resign and then issue comments.

Mind you this protocol prevails in all countries that you might think have a free speech provision.

As far as broad based machinery is concerned, I don`t see how the military would be able to advise the government on economic policies. If anything they should first try to propose how to reduce military spending or improve its efficiency (reassigning soldiers to health and education projects on a footing similar to the development of the Karakorum highway). This would be a true service.

Just because a person is a Sandhurst graduate, it does not make him a scholar on economic policies. How can the General(s) even suggest that they should be invited to a National council on such issues.

Please spare me the story of these honest soldiers.

Shandana,

You say you have known the gentleman all your life and never known him to volunteer any information without reason. I wonder what reason he could have for sharing this information with you now? I hope its not a sly attempt at getting some post- retirement importance in his circle.

If the COAS lacks guts and is fighting shy than its a matter of national importance. This gentleman (Musharraf`s old commanding officer) owes it to himself and his country to take up a pen and let all Pakistanis know. He must also put his name to this article, without which his drawing room comments will remain innuendo and rumour. You have known this gentleman all your life, suggest it to him.

Like Saad, I was quite disappointed with the parochial flavour of the article and the ensuing discussion. The success of a person heading any organisation, big or small, depends if the person has vision and people management skills. I don`t think any one of us in this discussion is capable of making a fair comparison between Ali Kuli and Musharraf along these lines. In which case Asif Omar has hit the nail on the head. It is the elected governments prerogative to appoint the COAS and it has done so.



Imran

what do you know...ali quli resigned too.

re saad:

it was neither rumour nor innuendo, i`ve known the gentleman in question (the commanding officer) all my life and have yet to hear him lie or volunteer information without reason.
i do appreciate the (backhanded) compliment though :)

Re BG:

You`re right on target! The ``anti-dacoit`` operation was nothing but an operation against the activists of MRD movement and other political activists who were working for democracy

It is a fact that Punjab`s demographic superiority (based on 81 census) is a problem in the multinational state of Pakistan (interesting to note that the bengalis in former east pakistan enjoyed the similar position in the united Pakistan but their numbers were countered by punjabi politicians by knocking all provinces together in west pakistan into one-unit). In civilized countries such problems have been recognized and so checks and balances have been designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority - but not in Pakistan. One example of Punjab`s domination and exploitation was the infamous one-unit scheme during 1955-1970.

Let me provide the distribution of top fifty army officers (1981) among various ethnicities of Pakistan.

Ethinic Group Top 50 Army Officers (1981)

Punjabi/Seraiki 20 (40%)
Pushtoon/Hindko 17 (34%)
Mohajir/Urban Sindh 10 (20%)
Sindhi/Rural Sindh 1 (2%)
Baloch-Brohi 0 (0%)
Other 2 (4%)

Ethnic Group Civil Service (Gr. 19-22 Total. 3117)
Punjabi/Seraiki 1714 (55%)
Pushtoon/Hindko 442 (14.2%)
Mohajir/Urban Sindh 298 (9.6%)
Sindhi/Rural Sindh 270 (8.7%)
Baloch-Brohi 95 (3.0%)
Other 298 (9.6%)

Furthermore reports reveal that in the current government over 40 top positions are currently held by Punjabis, with most of them being from central punjab. Besides the President, CJ, Chairman PIA, Chairman of PTV, Chairman of Privitization Commission, Chairman of Board of Investment and Chairman of PM`s literacy cell are all from Punjab.

In reply to Maliani...

The dacoits might have hidden under the umbrella of a political party....but they were true dacoits in the desserts and riverine areas of Sind... as for the figures quoted from 1981 ... the bias has tilted further in favour of Punjab in all fields... today there is no Lt. General from NWFP in the Pakistan Army.

In reply to Saeed Jaffar...

In the deserts and riverine areas of Sind... there were, unfortunately, dacoits..i am unaware of their political affiliations... but dacoits they were for sure... looting and killing innocent citizens.

In reply to Shafqat...

Yes, it is one of my failings ... I call a spade, a spade... ;)

Interesting read. tells of lots of probable reasons for the mystery of the superceedingbut not much is substantiated.

Re: Shafqat

I dont quite understand your amusement at the author`s comment to Muzaffar Q. I dont think the author is just boasting about herself - her comment was directed to a person who praised her writing. To me it read more like ``If I write well, its because I write honestly``.

Shandana:

Passing on rumor or innuendo is unbecoming of you. Who knows what the details of Musharraf`s transfer in 1965 were, why it happened, what were the circumstances, or if indeed it happened.

Muzaffar:
Well done! It is obvious that the authoress has a parochial agenda - your remarkable revelations have confirmed my suspicions.

Zeejah:
You mention the criteria of `merit` and `seniority` in appointing the COAS. It`s either-or. Meaning, it`s nonsensical to worry about seniority if you`re concerned with merit, and vice versa. But let`s talk merit for a minute. Before his coronation, Musharraf was a Lt. Gen in the Pakistan Army, was he not ? I have heard he is from the so-called muhajir community. If this is true, then given the overwhelming Punjabi domination of the Pakistan Army, what other evidence of merit do you need ?

Oh, and btw, I agree you write well but it helps if you don`t say so yourself, :-).

Saad Shafqat

In reply to ShahbazC...

I agree that its the rich elite that is at the root of most of our woes, but amongst them there are some that are ``more equal than others``...:)



In reply to temporal...

I beg your pardon...``journalistic compromise and a sham``!!!!... does everyone admire all the relatives they have been inflicted with??????

In reply to fhameed...

What he says is technically quite correct...IF he were not talking about Pakistan.

Since the time when Gen. Mirza Aslam Beg displayed control and common sense, the army has taken the role of `guardian angel`...reining in one group of political adventurers...while being called upon for help by another. It might be a choice between the devil and the deep sea, but that has frequently been a choice for us Pakistanis.

In reply to asif omer...

The post of COAS is one on which Pakistan`s security depends. Merit is what should always be the guiding force behind the choice, not pliability or political expediency. That was what I tried to put across. `Slink` has a tale to tell about our new COAS...God protect us if we ever do go to war with India!

In reply to Ajnabi...

Mian Nawaz Shareef`s election slogan, if I am not wrong, was ...``Jaag Punjabi Jaag, tairee pug noo lag gaee aag``

In reply to slink...

hmmm that kind of `soldierly` behaviour makes things much clearer....:)

In reply to Aliya...

I am afraid there is no other way to write about Ali Quli...I have known him all my life...and so I know what I am talking about...though he does sound too good to be true...but sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction...:)

In reply to Muzaffar Qazilbash...

If the gentleman has read, and according to his own admission, admired some of my writings he would realize that my relationship to Ali Quli would not have allowed me to write falsehoods; I do not compromise on the truth. I write well, because I write honestly....or not at all....:)

In reply to Ak...

The `wondrous` virtues of Ali Quli are strangely enough (in this day and age) not only true, but minimized in order to be believable...:)

as for the innuendo ... this is only one of many theories flying around .. another is that Ali Quli and his brother in law, Gohar Ayub, would have made a team too strong for the comfort of Mian Nawaz Shareef.... and so on and so forth. We have learned, over the years (of totalitarian rule in Pakistan), to read between the lines.

Although it is easier said than done, those living in Pakistan, and those who consider themselves Pakistanis, must realize that they are Pakistanis first and anything else a distant second. Too much at stake lies in between being a Pakistani and being a Punjabi, a Mohajir, a Pathan, a Sindhi, a Baluchi, and other numerous beings. The corrupt, incompetent, and unenlightened leadership in Pakistan, including the present one, has successfully Balkanized Pakistan to serve its own selfish purpose. If ordinary Pakistanis are not made aware of the diabolical tricks Paksitani leadership has been pulling, greater tragedies, just as in the Balkans, await for Pakistan.

Muzaffar:

If the relationship between the author and the general exists then it should be put on the mast head, to put the article in perspective. Otherwise, it would be journalistic compromise and a sham.

Mian sahib, a.k.a. Amir-ul-ChorDaku, is sitting atop a rocket merrily singing ``Generals may come, generals may go. judges may come, judges may go, presidents may come. presidents may go......``like Dr. Strangelove..

regards

I agree with most of the article, except for the Punjabi bashing. It has indeed become fashionable to blame it all on Punjabis (we seem to be in good company with Jews, Indians and the CIA). My purpose here is not to extoll the virtues of Punjabis or the Sharifs (especially since the Sharifs have none). My purpose is to differentiate between the masses and the `elite.` Not the Punjabi masses and the Punjabi elite, but masses and elite of Pakistan in general. The country is not being run by a Punjabi, it being run by rich, usually well educated elite who have no idea (or don`t care) about the plight the poor. There are poor people in Punjab just as there are in other provinces. There are the illeterate, desperate and hopeless everywhere, including Punjab. Similiarly, there are the opportunists, the corrupt in Punjab, AS WELL as every other part of the country. The problem is not that the Punjabis take all the resources and leave nothing for others, the problem (and a sad fact) is that there aren`t enough resources to go around; that is why we are part of the third world. Disperety exists, but it is between the rich and the poor; not between Punjabis and the non-Punjabis.

Shahbaz Chaudhary

Although I am not a fervent supporter of Nawaz Sharif I cannot condone the remarks made by the COAS at the Naval War College. Due to Pakistan`s history we have started to regard the Army as the fourth pillar of government. Everytime the democratic government is in trouble the people expect the Army to intervene. Army is an integral part of the executuve branch of the government and it should not attempt to interfere with other branches. Constitutionally, the Army is subservient to both the Prime Minister and the President because they are the highest elected official and theoretically represent the will of the people. The most important rule in the Army is the chain of command, a soldier must not question the commands of its superiors. The COAS is not in a position to make remarks about the elected government. Even if it is his personal opinion and not the view of the Armed Forces it should be kept private. The selection of the COAS is a perogrative of the Prime Minister and the President and is not based only upon the considerations of seniority. Finally, if the smaller provinces feel that they are being marginalized, they should mobilize for the next elections. The Army is not the solution, historically we have enthusistically welcomed an Army rule and celebrated even more to see it go. Let us not fall into that trap again.

People in the Armed forces get superceded all the time. Also, at General level when officers get superceded they usually leave. If they dont, since they are at the point of retirement (unless promoted) so they would retire. It is against the grain of a Foji to take orders from a junior, hence the departure is almost automatic upon being superceded, especially at that level. The appointment of Chief of Staff of any service is not on seniority alone. Any of the Lt Generals may make it. And the ones who are senior to the appointed one would leave. There is nothing out of the ordinary in that.

In justification of her point of view Ms Zeejah mentions the case of Chief Justice of Pakistan, who, according to the Constitution of Pakistan is appointed on seniority alone. There is no such rule for the appointment of Chief of staff of any service.

On principle alone, in a society governed by civilians, a COAS, who is a few steps removed in ranking to the Prime Minister may not contradict him. As per rule, if wishes of the COAS clash with the wishes of the government, then the General would go. In Pakistan, it is usually the government that goes, but in this instance the General was not interested in governing so he went instead. Simple.

Asif

i met one of pervaiz musharrafs old commanding officers yesterday who had this to say about him, ``he`s a nice person but he doesn`t like to get his hands dirty, he`s not really a `soldiers soldier```. he went on to relate how, during the 61 was, when the company he was with was being sent to the border, pervaiz m had himself transferred safely inland where he would not be in the thick of action.to each his own i suppose.
as for karamats resignation, i think he did the right thing. regardless of whether what he said was true or not, he had no business making those remarks. it is because of those years under military rule that we are so politically and emotionally stunted. he might be a fine man, but he went above and beyond `the call of duty` by saying what he did.

Important and well informed article. My only reservation: Ali Kuli Khan`s praises went on too long. But I am glad the writer made the point about Mr. Sharif`s megalomanic power trip , and his inability to tolerate anyone willing to say: `But Mr. Prime Minister....`
Once again reminds me of the late Z.A.B, right down to the COAS appointed out of turn.If he keeps following Mr.Bhutto`s footsteps (crushing of opponents, quick policy decisions to shake down citizens for money, the inflammatory foriegn policies, the last minute rush to shariah, the refusal to accept advice, the yes-man C.O.A.S), one shudders to think where those footsteps shall take Mr. Sharif next.

i dont know much about the specifics of the situation, so i cannot comment about your article, i just have a small question: you say ali kuli khattak was head of the ``1983-85 in Sind while involved in anti-dacoity operations`` are these the same anti-dacoit operations which were a disguise for terminating MRD types?

Your points are well-taken and make very sound sense. However, Zeejan writes:

:::::
Economic insolvency stares us in the face, (we have long passed the rubicon of Moral bankruptcy), a massive brain-drain is in progress, violent sectarianism is running amok, and a bloody civil war might be around the corner.
::::::

Is this a new environment for Pakistan? Doesn`t it ALWAYS seem that way? Yes, things are worse than 1 year ago, but are they really that much worse than 10 years ago?

The history of Pakistan, in fact the sub-continent, is replete with decisions that have a political motivation. It is open for conjecture why the sitting COAS resigned wihin hours after speaking the ``truth`` and suggesting a ``solution.`` It is also open for conjecture why a particular individual was chosen to replace him rather than ``xx.`` Zeejah takes no prisoners in suggesting that there was a method to this madness. The burning question is, ``will it be good for the country?`` In all fairness, it can be assumed that such compromise decisions lead to no good, ever. The real result will be evident when the killing in Karachi stops.

Fine, but really, did the author of this piece have to go on and on about the wondrous virtues of the heroic, son-of-the-Frontier Ali Quli? And then that all-too-obvious reference to Altaf Hussein`s role in Musharraf`s promotion. Mere conjecture. There seems to be innuendo here and a certain agenda at work that is hardly the sort of a thing for a website of this nature.