Builders’ Mafia

Shahbaz,

Your Azan story doesn`t make sense because ``Wuzzu`` is NOT necessary to perform Azan.

Aziz.

Come on, Born to Be and Afrasiyab. I think belonging to a certain community or group inherently gives you a little more leeway/liberty to ``bash`` it (I mean in an emotionally loaded kind of way).

And you may be right about the notion that a lot of us who are so forgiving when it comes to ``Islam-bashing`` would probably point fingers at and tag with negative labels any Muslim who belittles another religion. I hope that I have the good sense to distinguish between a valid point being made about another (or my own) religion in a civilized, intellectual context, and vindictive muck-hurling by a narrow-minded bigot for the main purpose of spewing hatred and intolerance. And if, in your book, accepting the former and denouncing the latter makes me the Gora Sahib`s sychophant with a deep-seated inferiority complex, then so be it.

Reply to Born to be:

You are right, It is nothing but that grand old inferiority complex, a scar we will have to live with for the next few generations due to the English dominance in our homelands in recent history.

Re: supposed bleeding hearts/brains liberals

You know it is really funny among us Pakistanis... .when it comes to Islam some of the self procliamed bleeding heart liberals demonstrate the utmost fanticism (on the othre side of the fence) ...I am sure if Shahbaz had said something similar in context about any other religion, he would have been labelled Islamic fanatic.

If everyone does agree that no religion is perfect, whay is it that only heat against Islam is justified.

Inferiority complex at work maybe...

Or shall we all start disparaging everyting we dont agree with ..in other religions.. but wont we be fanatics then... round and round.

Hi, Shahbaz (and everyone else).

Quite an interesting discussion you`ve got going there. I must say, I really enjoyed your fiery remarks, Shahbaz. I think your right to free speech should be fully recognized by our fellow Pakistanis. I must say, even though I don`t necessarily agree with everything you say, and I sometimes find your tone and vantage point reductive and overgeneralizing, I can`t help but be drawn to the passion in your delivery.

We MUST accept the fact (and it is a fact) that despite what the dogma mongers amongst us would have us believe, our religion is not perfect (ex: there is at least one provision for wife-beating in the Quran. Context vontext aside, this is really unacceptable to me, no matter WHAT the context). The Prophet was unquestionably a great man, but I would have trouble accepting EVERYTHING he said with unquestioning faith. Why are we so afraid of questioning certain aspects of our religion? I can understand an individual`s own utter and total submission to his/her religion--that is their personal choice. But I find it quite unfortunate that we, as a Muslim (and especially Pakistani Muslim) whole, are so insecure as to be threatened by ANYONE questioning ANY aspect of our religion.

I say let them question, poke fun at, belittle, doubt, deconstruct, criticize, and pry apart our beloved Islam. If it is truly a miracle, it will survive...

...and you should have nothing to worry about, now, should you?

And Shahbaz, keep it coming, baby. You`re a blast!!

Re: Anita Zaidi

Good argument, Anita. I would like to point (not defend) that there is a world of difference in calling someone a `Hypocrite` and informing them that they are making an inconsistent statement because of A, B or C reasons. Person to person, `you etc` exchanges detract from the weight of the criticism and lose value as serious argument.

With all due respect, I think your comment is a little harsh. The feedback, however, is welcome!.

Shahbaz (I am sorry, I do not know your last name

so I am going to go with Shahbaz,

Hope you don`t mind) said,

``Who gave you the authority on outlining rituals?``

Reply-

No one authourized me in any way to to outline any

ritual. But may I remind you that

we are not talking about a ritual here.

This is considered sunnah and I think you should

be more careful in choosing your words, which I

thought was precisely the problem with

Ms. Minhas` article atleast where she refers to

a distorted way of doing something as if it was the norm.

Shahbaz said

``Just because you saw something , heard someone say ``it was this way`` you assumed it was.``

Reply-

I am always amazed at people, educated people, refering to observaions as the only way to learn about Islam. How about reading some books and getting some information the way it is

normally obtained for every other educational disipline.

Why is Islam an exception. It is a shame that we do not have many examples of good muslims around us but why not look into the matter in a more educated fashion.

It is in a hadith where Muhammad (P.B.U.H) gave adhan in one of the ears of his grandson Hassan (P.B.U.H) and guess what he did. Well, lets not bother what is left of your brain since all you seem to be able to recall is that mullah who screamed and in the process of bending over made the air around you unpleasent.

The Prophet (P.B.U.H) whispered very gently into the ear of the newborn. Now if you or Shandana were there, when that mullah was waking up the whole ward, making these acute observations maybe it was your duty as educated people to

intervene.

Shahbaz said

``Why then cannot Shandana assume otherwise? Every ritual is executed differently.``

Reply-

I expalined above why. And once again, it is not a ritual. Precisely the reason why she cannot assume anything. She is a writer and a writer, a good writer, must be more responsible with his or her words than she was in that part of her article.

Shahbaz said,

``I have seen hundreds of different forms of azaan after the birth of a baby- everything from people

``whispering`` to people virtually yelling``

Reply-

There you go. You should have objected when the muazzin chose to scream but then again you were ignorant of the difference between the right way and te wrong.

Shahbaz said,

``better start reading the Quran - you wont

understand what it means and you would all

still feel totally ``spiritually`` enlightened.

It is a great writing tool wherein she

highlights the absurdity of being born in one religion or the other.``

Reply-

Iqbal said it best,

Mard-e-naadaan pay kalaam-e-nurm-o-nazuk bay-asar

Shahbaz said,

``They persecuted [Edhi] precisely because of

Edhi`s religion. I have the newsclips and his exact quotes- those Jamaate Islami activists over-ran his clinics because he was an

``infidel``.``

Reply-

Sir, I don`t think you know what you are talking about. I have met Edhi personally and he IS a muslim.

What happenned b/w him and Jammaat is politics and by this if you mean to refer to Jammaat twisting Islam to use it as a tool for exploitation, then I agree 100%.



Shahbaz said,

``all of you who were bothered should immediately stop reading

any critical literature and go back to the

propaganda spewed out by the Saudi oil money``

Reply-

I don`t know what to say to that. You stopped making any sense a while back in your reply but this one most certainly takes the cake.

Hope to keep hearing from you on this.

Until next time, then.

Must you make political statements? Maza Naheen Aya. We have Ardeshar for that. carve out your own niche.

Re: Muneeb (reply #16)

Excellent point, Muneeb.

As a purely hypothetical exercise, I`ll make the following observations/statements:

1) Bad Girl is a hypocrite.
2) Imran Khan is a hypocrite.
3) Salman Rushdie is a hypocrite.
4) Nawaz Sharif is a hypocrite.
5) Prophet Mohammad was a hypocrite.

Only Statement # 1 is unacceptable at Chowk because it would be seen as a personal attack on a writer/respondent, and therefore is liable to be censored. The persons mentioned in statements #2-5 however, can safely be insulted because they are not writers/respondents at Chowk.

If however tomorrow Imran Khan or Nawaz Sharif, or Salman Rushdie were to write for Chowk (hey, that day might come), it would no longer be acceptable to call them a hypocrite, since now, they would be personalities at Chowk and would therefore fall under the ``no personal remarks`` rule. Unfortunately, since Prophet Mohammad can never write on Chowk, he can`t be protected by this rule.

Such are the vagaries of Interact.

Anita

I think this was one of the funniest reply sessions I have read yet, no offense to anyone.

The part about the farts and azaan really cracked me up. Of course this has nothing to do with any religion, (let me cover my back while I can) but the picture that Shahbaz created was just hilarious! A little ``lewd`` humor once in a while is just what we need more of in this magazine.

Shahbaz, ever thought of writing?

Way to go, the_Unforgiven! I think Shahbaz`s comments were deliberately intended to invoke anger among Muslims and discredit Islam, but you did a great job. It`s obvious Mr. Shahbaz is letting his prejudices guide his judgement. Chowk needs someone who can rationally defend Islam like you did. It`s sad to know if one curses another chowk reader, he`d be termed rude and ill-mannered yet Shahbaz is hurling insults at Islam and the Holy Prophet (SAW) and no one bats an eye.

`` KARACHI People refuse to vacate dangerous buildings

By Our Staff Reporter

KARACHI, Nov 21: Around 200 buildings in the city are still occupied in spite of the fact that they

are in a precarious condition and may collapse any moment.

Most of these buildings, which have already been declared dangerous by the Karachi Building Control

Authority`s technical committee, are situated in Old Town Quarters, Ranchore Lines, Ramswami,

Napier quarters, Saddar, Market quarters and Arambagh area.

Asked why such buildings were not demolished by the KBCA, a spokesman said the occupants had

been advised to vacate them, but all the pleas had fallen on deaf ears.

Moreover, in most of the cases the owners or occupants had obtained stay orders from the courts, he added.

To a question whether the KBCA will continue to play the role of a silent spectator if those buildings remain occupied, the spokesman said that the KBCA`s demolition squad cannot take any action

against such buildings unless they are vacated.

``Although the KBCA had on several occasions served notices on the occupants and owners of such

buildings, cautioning them to vacate the buildings to facilitate demolition, they continue to reside there at their own risk,`` he said, adding that the KBCA was not responsible for any loss of life or property in case any such building collapses.

Giving details of the buildings already declared dangerous and issued notices, the spokesman said that there are in all 193 such buildings and these are located in Garden East (12), Garden West (4),

Keamari (5), Shah Faisal Colony (1), Lyari quarters (10), Serai quarters (6), Arambagh (10), Old Town quarters (18), Bunder Road quarters (5), Ranchore quarters (15), Tahilram quarters (8),

Ramswami (14), Market quarters (16), Preedy quarters (2), Wadhomal Odharam quarters (4),

Lawrence quarters (7), Saddar Bazar quarters (18), Railway quarters (6), Soldier Bazar quarters (6),

Jamshed quarters (1), Ghulam Hussain Kassam quarters (10) and Napier quarters (19).``

This was in today`s dawn, local news. I think this also reflects on the problem that Shandana has spoken about here.

Shahbaz, I will respond to your arguments, uh sorry, ramblings as soon as I am done with my finals here. Look for it sometime on Thursday.

Shahbaz, at the risk of sounding rude, what the hell are you babbling on about?

re the unforgiven:

incidentally, i was not apologising for the `yelling an azan into their ears at birth bit`, i was apologising for making fun of punjabis :)

re shabaz:

:)))) *grin *.. *grunt *... *squeeze *

Nice work, keep it up. Allow me to defend you article ;-)

Re: Unforgiven

Please the writer is not derrogating Azaan. Don`t misconstrue the author. You`re response was exactly like one coming from a Mullah - i hope you don`t endorse a fatwa on Mr. Minhas ;-)

Alo Mr/Ms Unforgiven let me correct you by pointing out that the derrogatary term ``Khatmal`` is not used for Mohajirs/Hindustanis and ``Mailay`` or ``Maila`` is a generic term not for any group of people. It seems that you have not lived/visited the land of the pure/impure for a while.

Moreover, but first let me make it clear that i am not a BB supporter. Most of the bypasses/bridges in Karachi were built or initiated during the PPP government. So you cannot outrightly say that BB didn`t do anything. But I think any government whether be PPP or PML or any third party has to serve Punjab in order to stay in Power. Simply because it is a majority rule in Pakistan and we all know who the majority is.

Excellent work here. Thank you for the courage to say it out, without mincing your words.

Regarding prejudice. Saying it like it is better than covering it in polite meaningless monologue al a the State media.