The Price of Journalism
Beena Sarwar January 1, 1999
#64 Posted by ferozk on May 17, 1999 2:55:27 pm
Re: Rana Ransher # 61
Rana, if I knew that question of why we ape our politicans, I would share it with you, but alas, I do not!
Rana, if I knew that question of why we ape our politicans, I would share it with you, but alas, I do not!
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#63 Posted by Godot on May 17, 1999 7:30:49 am
Re: Rishi & RanaRansher
It appears that you guys have no clue about my view of India.
This is, therefore, for the record.
1. I DO NOT dislike India, or its people, especially the Hindus, let alone despise it. How can I dislike a civilization whose sacred literature I hold in such high regards and have come to admire so much, and a civilization that has produced one of the very few men I admire, that is, Shakyamuni (I would say country, but, sorry, he was from present-day Nepal)?
2. I would love to see the relations between India and Pakistan the same as the relations between the US and Canada.
3. I say this with quite certainty that a vast majority in both countries holds no grudge against the other.
4. I believe that India is the bigger problem in removing the obstacles for a good relations with Pakistan. The ball, in other words, is in India`s court.
5. I believe that India and Pakistan can be either friends or enemies. There is no third option. Right now, unfortunately, they are not friends.
Period.
It appears that you guys have no clue about my view of India.
This is, therefore, for the record.
1. I DO NOT dislike India, or its people, especially the Hindus, let alone despise it. How can I dislike a civilization whose sacred literature I hold in such high regards and have come to admire so much, and a civilization that has produced one of the very few men I admire, that is, Shakyamuni (I would say country, but, sorry, he was from present-day Nepal)?
2. I would love to see the relations between India and Pakistan the same as the relations between the US and Canada.
3. I say this with quite certainty that a vast majority in both countries holds no grudge against the other.
4. I believe that India is the bigger problem in removing the obstacles for a good relations with Pakistan. The ball, in other words, is in India`s court.
5. I believe that India and Pakistan can be either friends or enemies. There is no third option. Right now, unfortunately, they are not friends.
Period.
#62 Posted by maliani on May 16, 1999 8:57:34 pm
Re: Rana Ransher
Saeen Rana, why didn`t you complete the verses (couplets)?
``Tussan ucche, tussadi zaat ucchi,
tussaan ucch shahar de rahan waale,
assaan kasoori, saade zaat kasoori
assan shahar kasoor de rahan waale``
Bhulle nach keh yaar manaya aye
sara dil daa kufr gawanya aye
apnay dil daa maksad paya aye
jadon nazar inayat keetie aye
assan ishq namaz jadon neeti aye
tadon bhull gaye mandir maseeti aye
-Bhulle
Saeen Rana, why didn`t you complete the verses (couplets)?
``Tussan ucche, tussadi zaat ucchi,
tussaan ucch shahar de rahan waale,
assaan kasoori, saade zaat kasoori
assan shahar kasoor de rahan waale``
Bhulle nach keh yaar manaya aye
sara dil daa kufr gawanya aye
apnay dil daa maksad paya aye
jadon nazar inayat keetie aye
assan ishq namaz jadon neeti aye
tadon bhull gaye mandir maseeti aye
-Bhulle
#61 Posted by maliani on May 16, 1999 8:49:20 pm
Re: Rana Ransher
Saeen Rana, why didn`t you complete the verses (couplets)?
``Tussan ucche, tussadi zaat ucchi,
tussaan ucch shahar de rahan waale,
assaan kasoori, saade zaat kasoori
assan shahar kasoor de rahan waale``
-Bhulle
Saeen Rana, why didn`t you complete the verses (couplets)?
``Tussan ucche, tussadi zaat ucchi,
tussaan ucch shahar de rahan waale,
assaan kasoori, saade zaat kasoori
assan shahar kasoor de rahan waale``
-Bhulle
#60 Posted by RanaRansher on May 16, 1999 8:35:22 pm
re: Godot
Whoah !!! I almost missed this whole interact. I don`t think you understood what I was saying, let alone what Rishi meant with the `spokesman` comment. Please be assured no comparison was made between Sethi and me.
Anyways Godot, Tussan ucche, tussadi zaat ucchi,
tussaan ucch shahar de rahan waale,
assaan .....khair choro
re: Ferozk, Rishi
I agree with what both of you are saying with regards to political mileage to be had with Indo-Pak baiting. However, the point I was making is if you realize what the politicians are doing, then why do you as an individual continue the hate against the `enemy`. I find it quite odd that people are happy blaming an entity called `politicians` without really distancing themselves from the thoughts that these politicians have supposedly `planted` in our heads. I guess the politicians have done their job quite well then.
It`s like what happened this morning. While watching cricket matches, this guy did not know I was NOT a Pakistani Muslim and said a whole bunch of crap (and India wasn`t even playing !!!!!!). When a friend told this guy to cut the jingoistic crap, and chupchaap watch the game he comes up and gives me a lecture on how this whole problem has been created by the `politicians` ??????
Afterall who are these politicians and how do they fan a fire that supposedly doesn`t exist ?
Whoah !!! I almost missed this whole interact. I don`t think you understood what I was saying, let alone what Rishi meant with the `spokesman` comment. Please be assured no comparison was made between Sethi and me.
Anyways Godot, Tussan ucche, tussadi zaat ucchi,
tussaan ucch shahar de rahan waale,
assaan .....khair choro
re: Ferozk, Rishi
I agree with what both of you are saying with regards to political mileage to be had with Indo-Pak baiting. However, the point I was making is if you realize what the politicians are doing, then why do you as an individual continue the hate against the `enemy`. I find it quite odd that people are happy blaming an entity called `politicians` without really distancing themselves from the thoughts that these politicians have supposedly `planted` in our heads. I guess the politicians have done their job quite well then.
It`s like what happened this morning. While watching cricket matches, this guy did not know I was NOT a Pakistani Muslim and said a whole bunch of crap (and India wasn`t even playing !!!!!!). When a friend told this guy to cut the jingoistic crap, and chupchaap watch the game he comes up and gives me a lecture on how this whole problem has been created by the `politicians` ??????
Afterall who are these politicians and how do they fan a fire that supposedly doesn`t exist ?
#59 Posted by rishi on May 16, 1999 9:48:43 am
Re: Ferozk
I agree completely with your assessment.
But can we expect the Indian Politicians to ever do pakistan a favor. ? The difference i am trying to point out is, the fear psychosis and the anti-india rhetoric in Pakistan is mostly reactionary . The Pakistani press, the people and the politicians always keep a keen watch on what India is doing and then , the politicians use it to their advantage and react thereby completely diverting their people`s attention. (kinda like wag the dog). For Instance with Agni II, the sole reason for testing it by the Vajpayee govt was to prop up its sagging popularity. This missile was not perceived as an anti-pakistani weapon by the press or the populace let alone the politicians in India. It was defenitely only a case of `` We are as smart as the rest of the world`` syndrome which the BJP tried to exploit. We all know how pakistan reacted and the actual reason for such a reaction. The question we need to ask is, why did not the Gauri tests, and the tall claims by the foreign minister that they can destroy any part of India, did not elicit impending doom or a mass fear-psychosis in India while the same done in India (even without the foreign ministers statement) can agitate the pakistani populace so much.
In my assessment, the press has a large role to play in creating and sustaining this anti-india rhetoric. Though the press kids itself in pakistan that it is only serving such an existing fear , the reality is in doing that they are only helping it grow. But then they are indirectly controlled by the govt too. what else can you expect..?
This is where Najam Sethi stood apart and that is why he is such a mess as today
Rishi
I agree completely with your assessment.
But can we expect the Indian Politicians to ever do pakistan a favor. ? The difference i am trying to point out is, the fear psychosis and the anti-india rhetoric in Pakistan is mostly reactionary . The Pakistani press, the people and the politicians always keep a keen watch on what India is doing and then , the politicians use it to their advantage and react thereby completely diverting their people`s attention. (kinda like wag the dog). For Instance with Agni II, the sole reason for testing it by the Vajpayee govt was to prop up its sagging popularity. This missile was not perceived as an anti-pakistani weapon by the press or the populace let alone the politicians in India. It was defenitely only a case of `` We are as smart as the rest of the world`` syndrome which the BJP tried to exploit. We all know how pakistan reacted and the actual reason for such a reaction. The question we need to ask is, why did not the Gauri tests, and the tall claims by the foreign minister that they can destroy any part of India, did not elicit impending doom or a mass fear-psychosis in India while the same done in India (even without the foreign ministers statement) can agitate the pakistani populace so much.
In my assessment, the press has a large role to play in creating and sustaining this anti-india rhetoric. Though the press kids itself in pakistan that it is only serving such an existing fear , the reality is in doing that they are only helping it grow. But then they are indirectly controlled by the govt too. what else can you expect..?
This is where Najam Sethi stood apart and that is why he is such a mess as today
Rishi
#58 Posted by Godot on May 16, 1999 9:48:43 am
Re: Rishi, #57
``I am only as much a spokesperson for Rana as we all are for say Najam Sethi.``
I wish you had not degraded Najam Sethi.
``I am only as much a spokesperson for Rana as we all are for say Najam Sethi.``
I wish you had not degraded Najam Sethi.
#57 Posted by ferozk on May 15, 1999 5:13:51 pm
Re: Rishi # 57
You said: ``However, keeping a perpetual hatred of India alive in the minds of the people of Pakistan works favorably for their politicians. The Indian politicians did try to do the same, but these grounds were never accepted by the Indian people....``
It seems that we are in an agreement on the nature of India-baiting in Pakistani politics, but let me ask you a question.
Even though we make the same mistakes often and never learn from our past experiences, Pakistani politicans in a general sense can not be soley held responsible for anti-Indian rhetoric. Even though the Indian public does not subscribe to the Indian politican`s attempts to bait Pakistan, it still validates the reality that Indian politicans do engage in practices that elicits a response from their Pakistani counter-parts. The fact that Pakistan baiting finds a favorable response amongsts a certain portion of the Indian population, the Indian politicans, by a force of habit, will ply that emotional atmosphere for their own political interests. The fact that Indian popultion as a rule disapproves of such jingoistic popularism, does not imply that it does not exist in India.
In other words, both our politicans bait each other and this mutual baiting hinders the improvement of our bi-lateral relations and as a public, both Pakistanis and Indians, are the ones who suffer and not their politicans who fan this resentment?
Well now my friend, do you agree with the above assessment? :)
You said: ``However, keeping a perpetual hatred of India alive in the minds of the people of Pakistan works favorably for their politicians. The Indian politicians did try to do the same, but these grounds were never accepted by the Indian people....``
It seems that we are in an agreement on the nature of India-baiting in Pakistani politics, but let me ask you a question.
Even though we make the same mistakes often and never learn from our past experiences, Pakistani politicans in a general sense can not be soley held responsible for anti-Indian rhetoric. Even though the Indian public does not subscribe to the Indian politican`s attempts to bait Pakistan, it still validates the reality that Indian politicans do engage in practices that elicits a response from their Pakistani counter-parts. The fact that Pakistan baiting finds a favorable response amongsts a certain portion of the Indian population, the Indian politicans, by a force of habit, will ply that emotional atmosphere for their own political interests. The fact that Indian popultion as a rule disapproves of such jingoistic popularism, does not imply that it does not exist in India.
In other words, both our politicans bait each other and this mutual baiting hinders the improvement of our bi-lateral relations and as a public, both Pakistanis and Indians, are the ones who suffer and not their politicans who fan this resentment?
Well now my friend, do you agree with the above assessment? :)
#56 Posted by rishi on May 15, 1999 8:55:38 am
Re: Godot
`` Pakistan = 0
India = infinitely better ``
-- I would`nt say that. There are areas where pakistan is infinitely better also. For instance, casteism in India . There are still many people in India who are subjugated in terms of caste. Granted , caste exists in the form of feudal class in Pakistan too. However, unlike the class system in Pakistan, in India the caste system does not let someone from a lower caste move forward under any circumstances whatsoever. I can quote more examples where Pakistan is doing much better. However, keeping a perpetual hatred of India alive in the minds of the people of Pakistan works favorably for their politicians. The Indian politicians did try to do the same, but these grounds were never accepted by the Indian people since, very few in India share a common boundary, culture, tradition, etc with Pakistan.
About me being Rana`s spokesperson.....Hmm, let me assure you that i don`t intend to be one. Rana is probably quite capable of speaking for himself. I am only as much a spokesperson for Rana as we all are for say Najam Sethi. Does that clear it up :)
Rishi
`` Pakistan = 0
India = infinitely better ``
-- I would`nt say that. There are areas where pakistan is infinitely better also. For instance, casteism in India . There are still many people in India who are subjugated in terms of caste. Granted , caste exists in the form of feudal class in Pakistan too. However, unlike the class system in Pakistan, in India the caste system does not let someone from a lower caste move forward under any circumstances whatsoever. I can quote more examples where Pakistan is doing much better. However, keeping a perpetual hatred of India alive in the minds of the people of Pakistan works favorably for their politicians. The Indian politicians did try to do the same, but these grounds were never accepted by the Indian people since, very few in India share a common boundary, culture, tradition, etc with Pakistan.
About me being Rana`s spokesperson.....Hmm, let me assure you that i don`t intend to be one. Rana is probably quite capable of speaking for himself. I am only as much a spokesperson for Rana as we all are for say Najam Sethi. Does that clear it up :)
Rishi
#55 Posted by anilsharma on May 15, 1999 6:46:06 am
dear beena,
can you please email the text of najam`s speech that is supposed to have offended the sharif government? my email address is anil_s49@hotmial.com
can you please email the text of najam`s speech that is supposed to have offended the sharif government? my email address is anil_s49@hotmial.com
#54 Posted by Godot on May 15, 1999 5:22:56 am
Re: Ferozk, #51
Your lopsided sarcasm duly noted.
Re: Rishi, #52
Pakistan = 0
India = Infinitely Better
Re: Rishi, #53
See my response to your Reply #52 above, and congratulations for your promotion as the Spokesman for RanaRansher!
Your lopsided sarcasm duly noted.
Re: Rishi, #52
Pakistan = 0
India = Infinitely Better
Re: Rishi, #53
See my response to your Reply #52 above, and congratulations for your promotion as the Spokesman for RanaRansher!
#53 Posted by subuhi on May 14, 1999 5:39:30 pm
re: maliani #50
Thank you. A couple of days ago, when i had read your post about the Subho Teendo banning, i had told a friend in Dawn. He immediately passed it on to other people within Dawn. Later i heard back from my friend saying that Dawn sources had been unable to confirm the news.
I did not mean to make it seem as if i were doubting you. As no papers had published the news until today, I just wanted to confirm that you had gotten the news from a reliable source. Given the immediacy of the net, news tends to multiply and come back to you from several ``different`` sources, although in reality the original source of all the leads is the same. In the current panic about the govt`s attitude towards the press, i just wanted us to avoid falling into such a self-fulfilling trap.
Thank you. A couple of days ago, when i had read your post about the Subho Teendo banning, i had told a friend in Dawn. He immediately passed it on to other people within Dawn. Later i heard back from my friend saying that Dawn sources had been unable to confirm the news.
I did not mean to make it seem as if i were doubting you. As no papers had published the news until today, I just wanted to confirm that you had gotten the news from a reliable source. Given the immediacy of the net, news tends to multiply and come back to you from several ``different`` sources, although in reality the original source of all the leads is the same. In the current panic about the govt`s attitude towards the press, i just wanted us to avoid falling into such a self-fulfilling trap.
#52 Posted by ferozk on May 14, 1999 3:29:13 pm
Re: Godot # 49
You wrote ``.....Pakistani and Indian leaders do not care about the abject poverty their respective countries are mired in. They use each other as tools to advance their own domestic political agendas, and keep their countries hostage to nationalistic motherland this and fatherland....``
Game, set and match!!!!
You wrote ``.....Pakistani and Indian leaders do not care about the abject poverty their respective countries are mired in. They use each other as tools to advance their own domestic political agendas, and keep their countries hostage to nationalistic motherland this and fatherland....``
Game, set and match!!!!
#51 Posted by rishi on May 14, 1999 2:43:05 pm
Re: Godot
This is not an India-Pakistan slang war. So please don`t misconstrue it as such.
A common mistake that many a pakistani makes is that given the amount of India centricity and india bashing that exists in Pakistan , they assume that such a reciprocal Pakistan centric polity would exist in India too. However let me assure you that this is not true. Even the nuclear bomb blasts by Pakistan did not evoke any response/fear/state of agitation among the common populace in India. Compare this with the situation in Pakistan after the Indian Bomb Blasts. Just check the content of our national newspapers. Compare www.dawn.com with www.samachar.com and you would realize the prominence given to India in Pakistan and the almost irrelevance accorded to Pakistan in India. Having said this let me add that it is only natural that people of both our nations react the way they do. A host of factors are responsible for this such as population, size, religion, democracy, poverty, economics, secularism, etc.,
However, one would have expected something better from someone who posts as intelligently as u do. You need not have ended your answer to Rana the way you did. An Indian friend i Know states with conviction that no Indian can hate Pakistan the way a Pakistani can probably hate India. I would be really happy if this statement is false.
Given the ground realities, i don`t think there can be any quick solution to a stronger secularism or democracy in Pakistan. The rise of Hindu fundamentalism in India does not help either.
Rishi
This is not an India-Pakistan slang war. So please don`t misconstrue it as such.
A common mistake that many a pakistani makes is that given the amount of India centricity and india bashing that exists in Pakistan , they assume that such a reciprocal Pakistan centric polity would exist in India too. However let me assure you that this is not true. Even the nuclear bomb blasts by Pakistan did not evoke any response/fear/state of agitation among the common populace in India. Compare this with the situation in Pakistan after the Indian Bomb Blasts. Just check the content of our national newspapers. Compare www.dawn.com with www.samachar.com and you would realize the prominence given to India in Pakistan and the almost irrelevance accorded to Pakistan in India. Having said this let me add that it is only natural that people of both our nations react the way they do. A host of factors are responsible for this such as population, size, religion, democracy, poverty, economics, secularism, etc.,
However, one would have expected something better from someone who posts as intelligently as u do. You need not have ended your answer to Rana the way you did. An Indian friend i Know states with conviction that no Indian can hate Pakistan the way a Pakistani can probably hate India. I would be really happy if this statement is false.
Given the ground realities, i don`t think there can be any quick solution to a stronger secularism or democracy in Pakistan. The rise of Hindu fundamentalism in India does not help either.
Rishi
#49 Posted by maliani on May 14, 1999 12:42:44 pm
Re: subuhi Reply #43
Source: http://www.dawn.com/daily/19990514/index.htm
Sindhi Magazine ``Subho Thendo`` banned
Updated at 13:20 PST (08:20 GMT)
In a fresh attack on Journalism, the Sindh Government has banned a Sindhi monthly ``Subho Thendo`` published from Hyderabad, Sindh.
The Home Department, Government of Sindh, vide letter No. XII (10) SO-I, dated May 6, in exercise of powers conferred on Home Secretary under Section 99-A of the code of Criminal Procedure, 1898, imposed ban upon further circulation of the magazine in the province of Sindh and declared that all the copies of the same, if found in circulation, be forfeited to the Government of Sindh.
The Magazine ``Subho Thendo`` (DAWN will DAWN) is published by Gul Hassan Karano from Hyderabad. According to Home Department, it contained material against religion, the Federation of Pakistan, the Army and Intelligence Agencies. The copies of the notification have been given to the interior ministry and the Director General ISI, Islamabad.
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