The Marriage Trap

totally relate to where you`re coming from bina. oh and i loved your book, where they dream in blue...did refer to it in my thesis for my ma english lit. a few years ago. cheers.

Great article. I could totally relate to it!!

well it is only natural that the fox says ``the grapes are saur``

nice article bina. the only thing i really wish men to women ratio be 1:13 that would make our life so interesting.

i`m going to get my best sister and my best friend to read this. no jokes, it`s a transcript of years of our rage and frustration. the tourette`s approach is an INSTITUTION, the more bizarre the word association, the better. sometimes the inside jokes get a little lonely, though.

keep up the good work.

it is strange. some articles of yours make me livid as hell, some make me feel great. of some, i dont know what to say..and this is one of those pieces!

buss sirf itna:niyat achi tau acha he hota hai, you will inshaALLAH find your share of deserved peace...so himmat na haar...!!!

whatver happens, happens for the best

need a lot of blind faith to believe in this adage..but it is true,. trust me

good luck

Allah haafiz

haider

sir:

the male in yale

female in nyu

wow

wont that guarantee a successful marriage!

some ppl are ...STILL naive..i bet you go to stanford..right sir?

Allah haafiz

sanity coupled with modesty is a hard to find virtue these days

Screwed up...is a word used often in a place where some aberrant reprobates find solace ( in amrikah bahadur )..i am sure you ALL REALLY know its meaning...!!!!

May the POWER THAT IS guide the womenfolk and the brand of ACCEPTABLE DEBAUCHED MEN THAT FORM THEIR STEADY BOYFRIENDS/FRIENDS ONLY OR WHATEVER .... to sanity!

unbridled freedom has its price and that is loneliness and melancholy!

but where are all the sane ppl?

take care

Allah haafiz

p.s:

call me a sexist chauvinist anachronistic creature...i dont mind!

pps: good men in Canada and America..might as well buy that ( for a cheap price ) but where are the GOOD women???...NOT HERE BUDDY!!!:)..call me a sexist chauvinist anachronistic creature...i dont mind!

screwed up...is a word used often where you live..i am sure you REALLY know its meaning...

may the POWER THAT IS ...guide the womenfolk and the brand of ACCEPTABLE DEBAUCHED MEN THAT FORM THEIR STEADY BOYFRIENDS FOR 4-5 years ( and dont marry) to sanity!...............

unbridled freedom has its price and that is loneliness and melancholy!

but where are all the sane ppl?

take care

Allah haafiz

p.s: good men in canada and america..might as well buy that ( for a cheap price ) but where are the GOOD women???...NOT HERE BUDDY!!!:)

screwed up...is a word used often where you live..i am sure you REALLY know its meaning...

may the POWER THAT IS ...guide the womenfolk and the brand of ACCEPTABLE DEBAUCHED MEN THAT FORM THEIR STEADY BOYFRIENDS FOR 4-5 years ( and dont marry) to sanity!...............

unbridled freedom has its prcie and many pay for it...long live ..sane ppl!

take care

Allahhaafiz

p.s: good men in canada and america..might as well buy that ( for a cheap price ) but where are the GOOD women...NOT HERE BUDDY!!!:)

Hi, nice article. It is indeed sad that every woman in Pakistan feels like she needs to be married to some slob to be able to feel a sense of accomplishment or pride. So many of these women are very talented and have so much potential, but what happens, the parents arrange a marriage with some moron or the other who doesn`t appreciate who he`s with. As soon as they get married, they discover sex and pump one baby out after the other.

It`s tragic really, but, hey, there isn`t much that can be done about it. The key to this whole mess would be to educate everyone.

Oh well, life goes on in Pakistan.

DEAR MS B....

I`LL PRAY FOR U AND OTHERS....AND WISH U ALL GOOD LUCK.....IF U BELIEVE IN LOVE AFTER MARRAIGE U`LL DO JUST FINE........IF U TRY TO FALL IN LOVE BEFORE U GET MARRIED U`LL BUY ONE WAY TICKET TO HELL (OPINION....)

WOMEN HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO--EDUCATION AND FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE IS FIRST STEP........MOST OF MY MALE COUSINS WHO WERE RAISED IN US WENT TO YALE AND FEMALES WENT TO NYU..............

IT APPEARS THAT U R WELL EDUCATED...BECOME FINANCIALLY INDEPENDANT AND U`LL DO JUST FINE...........WOMEN SET THEMSELVES UP FOR POSTMARITAL ABUSE BY MANY BY NOT DOING THE ABOVE MENTIONED HOMEWORK....

HAIDER....

ILLINOIS,USA

Dear Bina,

That was a very well written, amusing, yet simultaneously thought provoking piece of writing.

I think that we can all divide marriage into two categories. I mean, how we would like to get married: 1) the `fantasy`--meet someone with all the characteristics you`d like in your `ideal` and (2) the `reality`--meet someone whom your parents have chosen but hopefully with your consent and input.

(1) does not happen very often in my experience (except in Bollywood). However, everyone would ideally like this method of getting married. However in the real world it just doesn`t work.

The break up statistics of `love` marriages in the US/England are enough proof of this.

(2) This method is potentially very good. I think Rehan summed it up with these comments,

``But mosttly, it`s because the entire marriage system in our culture, well if we can call it a

system, is flawed. At least for those who`d like to have a say in determining who they should

spend the rest of their lives with. Because if you notice, people who have no preferences, i.e. ji

ammi or ji abba jaysa aap munasib samjhayn, are usually the ones who get married to

whomever quickly and live ``happily`` ever after, well, most of the time.

But if you are educated and have a preference, well then, good luck. In addition, if you are

good looking and attractive, and seeking the same, then you are truly doomed. Now the part

that gets even trickier is when you would like to have a say, but still are culturally and/or

religiously inclined and are still relying on the traditional system of waiting for a ``good`` rishta, in

girls` case, or unable to ``find`` a suitable rishta, in the case of guys. This, my friend, is WHY

getting M-A-R-R-I-E-D has become similar to climbing Mt.Everest for these young people.``

Indeed, the educated university-going desis, certainly those living in the West--I`m one--are in a dilemma. Especially since most of us are from working or lower middle class backgrounds originally. Most of the girls our parents suggest we marry from back home tend to be from gaons and are as such not compatible for that reason being, often, very lowly educated. They have all the many other good qualities though like maasomiyat, adab etc.

The kind we would like, certainly I`m speaking for myself, that is, educated middle class girls from the big cities like Lahore and Karachi (not the super-rich `elite-who are more American than the Americans!) are often from different social class from our parents therefore it is very difficult to set up a meeting or seek `rishtas` in that social class. It happens, but is very rare.

This leaves the girls ABCDs/BBCDs--here again you have the traditional and the `modern`. Depending on ones preference one can ask one`s parents to find a suitable girl for you. Again problems arise like, social class and `zaat` as well as the preference by parents for you to marry a girl from back home. The only alternative is if you have a female cousin or close fam,ily friend`s daughter whom fits some of the qualities you seek.

It is a big problem!

The only solution is to forget your dreams and marry a girl with only some of the qualities you seek...and keep your parents happy too.

Ferozek:

Does that mean, as far as Pakistani youths are concerned, at least the educated ones, they do not see any socio-religious distinctions in interacting with christian youths in a social setting?

Reply:

No, atleast we didn`t. There were more Muslims in St Pats than Christians but still there were a good number of Christians there too. We were very comfortable with them all along. I am still friends with a few who are still in Pakistan. Infact, now that I think about it, I am the only Sunni Muslim in my group. Others included four Christians, One Bohri and a Hindu.

Re: afrasiyab`s post # 43

Thanks for that infomation! The logistics of eating out in a hotel and later retiring to rooms in the same hotel sounds like a practical idea. Another interesting thing that you mentioned was the christians bringing alcohol. Does that mean, as far as Pakistani youths are concerned, at least the educated ones, they do not see any socio-religious distinctions in interacting with christian youths in a social setting?

This is a tangent to the dating situation in Pakistan. Having lived in Utah, I have picked out quite a few things about the Mormon culture and Mormon religion. Like Islam, Mormonism prohibts sex before the marriage and drinking any alcohol or caffenine beverage. Needless to say, that does not stop those who want to drink. On the matter of sex, it gets a little more interesting. The students at Brigham Young University (BYU), a religious university, are segregated along the gender and dating and other social events involving men and women, on campus, is frowned upon. All such activity is organzied and watched by the church.

Most of the students who go to BYU are religious and they do not want to break the commandment ``thou shallt not commit adulatry``, but they still want to have sex. Most of the time, their only sexual release is through dry-humping (levi loving and I am against that idea, because as my cousin in the PAF would say: you can`t bomb half a bridge; do the job right or don`t do it!)and through prolonged foreplays, but without any sex involved.

Those who want to have sex with out breaking any taboo, drive to Las Vegas for a weekend and get married. Thus, they have sex all weekend long and before coming back, they just get divorced. This way as their reasonings go, they are not breaking their religious vows not to have sex! This goes on with all the time at BYU and it is not suprising for a guy, during his college career, to have been ``married`` to ten or more girls!

Also, the Mormon religion only allows the missionary position for sex and most of the guys who do indulge in it tend to be inexperienced. On college campuses in Utah, it is not unusual for girls to ask other guys, who are sexually active, for ways to improve their sex lives. This is really weird, but these girls will not tell their boyfriends about their lack of sexual experience. Those that do, tend to get labelled as sluts and in some cases, they also get physically abused. One of my fraternity friend`s wife, when they were dating, told me that he was a ``two pump charlie`` and he was not satisfying her. Every
one in the fraternity knew she was cheating on him, because of this reason and I know this, because I once fooled around with her too when he was out of town! They are married now and got almost divorced, because had an affair.

There is so much misinformation about sex in Utah, because the Mormon religious influence in local politics prevents sex education in schools. Hence, Utah has one of the highest rates of teen births in the nation. Mormons do not like to talk about sex, because they think that if you talk about it, the spirit will your body and your soul will be condemed for thinking impure thoughts!

I just hope that Pakistanis kids who are sexually active, know about STDs and are using preventive care. Those who are interested, do they have access to sex education related information?

Trust me yaar, I know there is a way when I have a will to do something! Thanks for your reply and I am sorry for this tangent, I just got carried away!

Ferozek: Post #36

Well, I attended school in St. Patrick`s School in Karachi and most of my friends would have their chauffers take a bus and simply take the car from them picking up their girlfriends from the St. Joseph`s or wherever they may be after school. There were a few restaurants in Clifton and others close to Tariq Rd. Also Christian students would help by bringing alcohol to the arrangements. Parties were usually in several different places. I remember attending one party in Pakistan for which the person throwing the party actually managed to rent the whole house with several bedrooms for a night or so. It was somewhere in the Defence area.

You could also go to the hotels and eat out there.

My friend, When there was a will, rest assured, there were ways :)