Growing up an American Muslim

Hi...I really like this article. I have similar growing up experiences as a Muslim American. your article has given me some inspiration for my college admissions essay!! It`s nice to know there are others out there that can relate with what you are going through.

Beautiful??? Charming ... who put these ideas into your mind

Well done Fatima Zehra!!

Now if the purpose of hijaab was to create an identity for muslim women as not to be harrased by and not to bring looks towards them,then waering hijaab in this darulkufr serves quite the opposite.I can bet that if you went to your mall sine your hijaab,modestly dressed,youcould be equally effective woman.This is just a teaser.Ours is afree country and you can wear whatever pleases you.by the way hurry up and graduate.there is more to life than the college campus.

Re: lasiwala

our audacity?!?!?! umm correct me if im wrong but i thought we were all allowed to vocalize our opinions just as you have the right to. In any event.. it seems odd that instead of actually logically shooting down arguments you just covered the responces with a blanket statement of ``Both Uzma and S are nots`` ok thanks.. but i wont continue cause you tire of this..

along with the rest of us. bye

S

RE: ZEHRA

hi. hope youre goods. contrary to what some ppl may say i dont think im intellectually superior to you :) I for one havent been published on chowk.. soo...

:P

S

lasiwala..

there never was a need to apologize.

i didnt get into the ongoing debate, firstly becuz i wasnt aware it was going on. this piece has been off the front page for eons. for somehting so badly written it got people to respond, and respond strongly and passionately..as far as im concerned, that is what counts. to get reactions from people, to get them to think.

another reason i didnt respond was becuase, judging by your comments, you werent out to make points, just nasty jabs at me. and thats fine. you have that right. i need not respond to it. i could care less :)

another reader also thought this piece was awful..faraz i think..if you are so inclined, feel free so scroll through the 140 some odd replies and find it, it`ll make you feel somewhat vindicatated.

z.rizvi

Both Uzma and S are nots. The audisity of both of you to defend the authors values are so unbelievable. Wheres the author, I`m sure she`d be a little upset at my comments. Or maybe you two are sooo intelectually superior, she decided to remain out of this little debate. Amazing how such a not-all-that-good `article` has shut the `witty muslim` up so fast. i tire of this. appolozie i do not.

Both Uzma and S are nots. The audisity of both of you to defend the authors values are so unbelievable. Wheres the author, I`m sure she`d be a little upset at my comments. Or maybe you two are sooo intelectually superior, she decided to remain out of this little debate. Amazing how such a not-all-that-good `article` has shut the `witty muslim` up so fast. i tire of this. appolozie i do not.

Obviously there seem to be some over-arching issues here...and some underlying ones.

I am amused to find someone (ie lasiwala) question whether or not ``zehra`` (the author) knows herself or not... and I guess if she doesnt, then this ``lasiwala`` obviously seems to know her better than herself.

terribly amusing. *wry smile *

i found the comments unbecoming, and not carefully thought out. i commend ``S`` for being able to write back thoughfully and with logically based responses, and yet being careful enough not to have it become a personal issue. two thumbs up for that one.

lasiwala, in the future, i would recommend a few deep breaths and some thought before attacking an article on a personal level. you may comment on the article, style of writing, content, etc...but, to bring in personal issues into the realm of discussion is both irrelevant, and inconsiderate...unless, of course, you have issues with the author regardless of the piece of work and have used this as a medium to express (so very eloquently) your anger.

RE: Zehra.. nice piece. not too melodramaticin my opinion but im sure lasiwala disagrees :P

Re: lasiwala

Disclaimer: this is not meant as a personal attack of any kind. im sure if i knew you i wouldnt hate you or anything-im going to be a little open with my comments. plese take them in stride.. thanks...(i have a friend thats into disclaimers so i figured what the heck...)

i think you misinterpreted a lot of what zehra said..

`` How do you know that. It seems as though you are saying ALL Muslim women are judged and are caracterized ``not legitimate citizens`` for what; dark skin, hijab or a headscarf ???``

how does she know that Karen was not put in the same situation.. well for one she doesnt she said ``probably`` and probably is fine because Karen fits the description of what ppl expect(or when the piece was written however many years ago expected)the typical american to look like so they werent/arent really questioned the same way.. as yes dark skinned-brown, hijabi women are. Unless youre in Edison or an area similar to that people will tur and stare at a women wearing a hijab or a brown person.. male or female ..lemme relate something i encountered in the ``professional world``

I called up a computer consultant company in responce to an add in the paper. I was calling on behalf of a computer consulting company that was interested in subcontracting with them. The women -thought she was familiar with the company and said no quite rudely and said i know you guys. you have a lot of foreigners working there and theres always those foreign names and problems with visas and we dont need any foreigners here. My first nasty b--ch on the phone.. i was shocked and said well i have a foreign name. and im a American citizen.. shes like yeah ok whatever i know youre kind. i dont want to do business with them. As civilly as i could i said thank you and hung up.

And she didnt even see my scarf.. hmm what a pity she could really go at me then..

all she had was my funny sounded name which i have on good authority is a nice pretty sounding name.. :)

I think when Zehra asks

``What nation?

Which God?

Liberty? What kind?

Justice? Hah!``

shes really not showing her complete haterd of teh country but just questioning what nation is it that shes pledgin her allegience to.. yes you answered that (U.S.) even though she did too.. but deeper her question was (as i see it) ``what nation? a nation that looks at me in disgust and contempt that i decided to be me? a ntaion that ridicules my customs until it fits in their own conceptual framework -until demi moore puts mendhi on her hands?``.... well that doesnt work to well.. ppl started wearing sari`s and im sure if a woman walks out in public wearing a sari she will be stared out.. ive worn shalwar kameez`s on campus.. and i recall being asked (by mind you a brown friend of mine).. why do you do that? why would you put yourself out for ridicule or looks like that.. i believe my comeback was something to the effect of the gay pride sticker on a mutual friends car.. why does one put themself out for an attack like that?..

what god? in a secular society isnt church and state separate? hmm correct me if im wrong on that.. but what if one was an atheist? hmm the pledge of a secular country should really not exclude any citizen...

what justice.. yeah the justice system in pakistan sux.. and as u admit yourself the one here screws ppl too.. but it seems to screw specific ppl alot more in terms of public image. the whole media blitz on terrorism and muslims and then wait tim. mcVeigh?!?!? theres very little damage control to be exerted on the muslim image in the media.. seems to me the media and the justice system have to fight stereotypes

``You seem to write in a somewhat condesending manner when refering to `whitie` and all things this great nation has let us be involved in.``

dont you see something wrong there? right there in what you said..

``this great nation has let us be involved in``

it let us.. that implies it did us a favor and allowed us poor schmucks to come in and were not really ``true citizens`` then.. not first class ones in your eyes either... so then all brown ppl are beholden to the great nation run by the ``whities`` and did nothing to help it become that great.. well reread your stuff..

this nation is built by people.. all kinds of people.. so dont go shoving your this nation is great bullsh#t up people`s a$$es..sorry i meant noses- It`s great because of people`s efforts for it.. it didnt just spring up out of no where.. people fought for it. - yeah granted that the US has given many people opportunities that couldnt be found elsewhere but you seem to think that only the brown ppl should be kissing hte ground the ``whitites`` walk on because they gave it to us. seems to me you have a double standard- shouldnt they be thankful that this great nation has let then be involved in it to.. hmm ok so if were all thankfull to be americans (which no one argued negatively and even zehra said her experience was positive and she learnt from it) then who do we thank.. hm why dont we turn around to the person next to us and like Kindergarten go hug them and thank them.. hmm no were supposed to thank ``this great nation``.. well how do you propose we do that? maybe by trying to acheive better and better things for it.. hmm how about we try and erase ignorance from it.. how about we talk about the problems because everyone knows about the good things.. what about we discuss the not so good and attempt to change that to good.. hey does that sound like giving back something? hmm it does to me.. wow.. would you look at that i think thats just what Zehra`s article was doing.. raising questions and exploring things that could be worked with to be improved.

I think it isnt she that doesnt know hereself or is hypocritical .. maybe you should look into why you wrote what you did.. if you try and delude yourself into thinking that your responce had nothing to do with the author and only to do with your nationalism.. look deeper cause if not then you might be the one being hypocritical.

anyway lighter note nice name lasiwala. :) adidaSbly :P

sorry if this sounds harsh or mean..its nothing personal :)And sorry if its too long-i tell long -20 minute long stories too so i guess thats just how i am :P... :)

I wonder if the author in growing up an American Muslim really knows herself. She wrote the article ok, a little too melodramitic for me. Author: You say in your article, ``I look up from the sheet of paper...and meet the eyes of a white

Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman who has probably never had to defend who she is to anyone. I choose my words carefully and smile.`` How do you know that. It seems as though you are saying ALL Muslim women are judged and are caracterized ``not legitimate citizens`` for what; dark skin, hijab or a headscarf ??? i wonder if you are falling prey to the exact action you yourself find soo disturbing; vast genralizations about any group of people. The gaul you have in asking What nation what God. I see your understanding of our country does not do you too well in those intelectual teas you attend. 1) What Nation? The nation known as the United states of America. The nation which your parents and my parents came to to have a better life and to educate their children in a free and democratic society. That my friend is the nation the pledge refers to. 2) What God? Helllooo!!!! You seem to write in a somewhat condesending manner when refering to `whitie` and all things this great nation has let us be involved in. The same God that created al things. as a sedu-Muslim, you should remember the one who created your Mohamed his Jusus and her Noah are is the same person. Duh! the pledge to the flag refers to YOUR GOD. happy? and my personal favorite, 3) ``Justice? Hah!`` Our system of jurisprudence is the only system of laws and regulations which promote all as equalls in the eyes of justice. when the statue of Iustitia gazes down on you, why don`t you raise your nose, sorry eyes at her and notice what she has around her eyes. Its a blindfold since you don`t know. You dont have to be a mahajir or a sindi or a patel or a syed to have a fair trial in this country. sure Most of the times, it seems to not work but I`m sure it`s a hell of a lot more stable than your wonderful pakistan.

shery, thanks for your encouragement..it means a great deal ofcourse ;)

issues of identity are a big deal to me and it has been something that almost everyone living in the united states must deal with. i would be interested to see the piece you are talking about. writing is always catharthic for me so i just let it all out and just hope that its received well and that it is meanigful..

rizvi

Zehra (# 103)

`Thoughts about our children`s ID` (question addressed to Anne, Anita and myself)

It wasn`t that I neglected answering you, I just hadn`t checked this discussion in several days and was not really keeping up. But since you specifically asked here I am.

But first YOU please answer a trivial question. Why do you only use all lower case letters in your writing. You didn`t used to at first, but now you do. First it was BG (who became bg) and now Zehra is in the process of becoming zehra. I`m in no way trying to convince anyone to use UPPER case letters (in first person singular pronouns, beginning of sentences and proper nouns, not to mention name initials and acromyms). BG, in one of her posts somewhere claimed that she was plain old lazy to press the `shift` key every time. What is your reason? Is it some radical feminist revolt against patriarchal conventions of English language or what? There is a trend starting here as I`m beginning to notice others do it more and more. I`m just plain old curious.

Now to my younger child`s identity (my older one is going on 17 and she has already formed one -which will no doubt evolve further). That issue is simply going to have to be dealt by him when he gets old enough to spell `identity crisis`. In the mean time all we intend to do is to give him UNCONDITIONAL love and acceptance and try to encourage him in being the best he can be in whatever it is that he discovers he does best. We have no intention of shoving any pre-packaged cultural system down his throat. He will see and observe and draw his own inferences. We do intend to supplenent his education with home-schooling and shall always tell him whatever he wishes to know and steer him in the direction of learning more about it (whatever `it` is).

I believe an emotionally secure child will enter adolescence better quipped to discover his own identity than to cling on to hand-me-down parental ID parcels. It will just depend on the child`s personality and inclinations. Both his mother and I feel comfortable about who we are and feel to need to cast our child in our own immages. He will be whoever he is, and that is only his job to discover.

re: Ferozk: ``Sharam - shame- in culture``

EXCELLENT point. I`ve been a be-sharam most of my adult life and don`t care for any such nonsence. Rhett Buttler, I think it was, in Gone with the Wind, who says to Scarlet in the study at Seven Oaks, something to the effect that if one is brave and learns to not care about one`s reputation one learns that life really becomes very comfortable. This sharam bullshit is one of our FOUR big curses:

Adab, lehaaz, izzat aur sharam.

Thank you for bringing it up.

re: Faraz #107 ``nation of jahils``

Since you have generalized about the national average, I wonder how much of it stems from our incestuous in-breeding resulting in the gene pool degradation. Anita Zadi wrote an piece once here on Chowk about our nation of cousin phuckers.

re: afrasiyab #: 122

In response to Maliani (``Islam has incorporated lot of Pagan Arab customs.``) you wrote:

[`` Sorry, that is erronous. `Muslims` adopted pagan arab customs or pagan Indian customs not Islam...``]

Maliani said nothing of pagan Indian custom, so lets leave that out. As for pagan Arab customs, the annual worship gathering at Mecca (now Hajj) was an ancient pagan custom which Prophet Mohammad adopted and incorporated into his religion, Islam. This included running circles around the black stone housed in Kabah. Things that the Prophet himself adopted, I think it is safe to say, are a part of `Islam` (like the annual worship gathering at Mecca) and not just something which the `Muslims` picked up from the Arab pagans.

...SR

(please excuse the typos, its late and I`m stupified.)

Mailiani : Zehra hajji `99

Without a Mehram she doesn`t have the option, hijab or no hijab.

cheers,

OMAR1974

re:Ferozk

Or she could go to Mekkah for Haj and absolve herself from all the sins ;-)

Re: Omar1974 post # 127

Agreed. That is why historic speculation can be so interesting. The idea of non-Arabs dominating the scene was interesting, but doesn`t that itself suggest a metamorphis of the prevailing concepts? Would love to hear more on this.

Zehra:

Happy Birthday....21, so you are legal! I will drink a toast to you. Zehra, you need to go to the nearest watering hole and get wasted and just, once, hit on guys! It is because of this reason that I admire the Catholic religion so much. Love the concept of confession - no matter what you`re sins, you`ll be forgiven.

Sinner: Forgive me father for I have sinned!

Prist: Yes!

Sinner: Yesterday, while at the petting zoo, I went down on a baby graffee!

Priest: Yes, that is a serious sin. Say 40 hail marys and 60 hail fathers and ask for forgiveness!

re bina, bg

I never stated that Sindh is immune from honour killings!! What i intended was that honour killings were alien to this region (including Punjab, Pakthtoonkhwa) before the arrival of Islam.

Actually, statistically speaking the incidents have increased since Zia`s era.

Coming back to Sindh, there are soom grass root organizations working to elimiate this evil. One of the more active one is ``Sindhiari Tehreek``.