Growing up an American Muslim

Zehra said:

There are some things that we do to please our parents, that is so very true, and I will admit that that definitely plays a part in my wearing hijab. South asian parents have a strange hold on their children, and at times its almost tangible. But again, as you so wonderfully put it, I would not expect my parents to stand in my way if I chose to marry someone outside of my culture and/or religion. They wouldn`t give me the green light on that one but its something I would feel very strongly about and would have to counter whatever arguments they presented. Its all about how much priority you give that issue in your life and how much you want to fight for it. Thanks.

z.rizvi

Listen Zehra, the last thing I meant to do was hurt your feelings, but in this post you yourself virtually admit my point about the PURE IDEAL that patriarchy presented to u (and I had not read this post when I sent my previous reply). So why quibble? As for my being G-D, well i`m most certainly not informed about other aspects of life, i can only make an educated guess at best regarding motivation, but i`m probably (rolling the dice) pretty darn close (if not rolling snake eyes every time), and perhaps that is making you too defensive.

I don`t think i implied that you encouraged anyone to don the hijab against their will, if you felt i did, i apologize, but facts are facts. That is precisely what most hijabans are forced to do. Sorry, but this is planet Earth, 1999, yet most Muslim women are living like it is still the middle ages thanks to muslim men who have made the value of wearing restrictive clothing into a positive social good. YES, its not about you only, my dear selfish one that I have plunged into this debate (grin), it IS POLITICAL.

If its ``all about the priority you give to the issue in your life``, are you saying that since this is a low priority issue for u personally, it wasn`t worth fighting your parents over the rights NOT to wear it, but free choice marriage is such an issue for u ?

The strange hold that S.Asian parents have (your self-confession) over their kids is possible only thru the institution of patriarchy.

And if you choose to marry someone outside your culture/religion be sure to write an article for all of us on your parents reaction/your (quite likely) ostracization from the extended family structure, the catharsis you went went thru, the final choice you made --- to desert your True Love Vs. Your Family. The Agony of that choice. The reality of today, as you write that piece. And conclude with your hope for a reconcilliation or better yet, leave it open ended with a sort of Che Serra Serra, whatever will be will be, the futures not ours to see Chae Serra Serra, i will always love my parents deep in the recesses of my heart/ or (depending on the outcome) my lost love. And finally,either the husband out of an arranged marriage comes home as the climax and you welcome him with din-din, or we realize that what your choice has cost you, you are 40, an aging old maid, still sitting at the home of your parents, never found love in life after you made another self-sacrifice. I?ll be more than happy to read the piece when u write it, if you care to share ofcourse.

PLEASE dont be mad at my little attempt at predective writing. I truly dont mean to make you mad. Just want to force you to think critically. I am not G-D! My opinions are not written on stone tablets. Still, I know something about how this world works, while i humbly acknowledge the possibility (say 15%) that I could be completely off base, 85% chances are that I struck a chord somewhere. Okay, so its a White head sack (the possibilty had crossed my mind) like a 5 kg bag of basmati rice or sugar. Yeah, i was wrong ....

I know life must be tough, and i seriously am the last guy who wants to make it tougher for you, honestly. In all liklihood im more likely to be one of the guys on your side than not, in terms of admiration for your donning the ghilaf (pillow case)in N.America, just because its gotta make everyday life more difficult. But i am a deep skeptic at heart regarding whether it can ever really be a product of free choice. Still i respect your courage, if not your, uh, (choice?).

sincerely,

Omar

Zehra says addressing me:

your narrow-mindedness on this topic is...somehow not surprising. you say : ``but lets cut the b.s, we both know that at some point in your life the burqa/veil/hijab was presented as a pure ideal, and you accepted that at face value.`` i cannot Believe the gal it must have taken to write down such a patronzing and utterly ludicrous statement.

OMAR1974s reply:

Well, are you saying that you wear hijab under protest ? Does that mean that you concede my point that it is your family`s pressure/influence that makes you wear it?

Elaborating on what Bina just said, re your wearing tight jeans plus hijab, dont you think that if you wore a bikini on the beach plus hijab with sun glasses, you`d be totally defeating the purpose of wearing the hijab (actually I think some of the American 60s beach party movies actually portray this type of HIJAB as being pretty cool). I certainly approved! (grin) Believe it or not, i would even defend your right to wear this outfit on freedom of personhood/free speech grounds on Clifton Beach, Karachi.

Cheers for fashionable hijab wearers,

Omar

Zehra:

You may find reply #235 to the article SEX EVERYWHERE also very pertinent to the issue of Hijab.

OMAR1974

Zehra:

re: bina To read more about what its like to grow up paki/british , pick up any hanif kureshi book. the black album or my all time favorite, the

I have read Hanif Kureshi and watched his movies extensively over the past five years. But one man`s narratives are simply one man`s narratives...limiting at times. Also, he writes mostly about men, while I need to know about women`s experiences too. Kureshi isn`t too good at presenting a female point of view.

As to comparing FGM (female genital mutation) to hijab...you remind me of the close-minded freaks I had to deal with my freshman year).

Gee thanks! No one`s ever said I reminded them of a closed-minded freak before.

They equated hijab with someone who would hold down another woman to see her all chopped up and sexless.

I stated that the WAYS IN WHICH WOMEN ARE CONVINCED that hijab was preferable or required were similar to the ways in which women were convinced that circumcision was preferable or required. Not that hijab and circumcision are the same. For God`s sake! Donning hijab and having your genitals excised are definitely not the same.

Its like If I wear hijab I cant be as liberal and
open-minded as the rest. That is the message that you send out.

Nope. I never said that if you wear hijab you can`t be open-minded. Please don`t put words in my mouth, Zehra. Sometimes I find you awfully defensive about your hijab - understandable, I guess - but you should try to be more aware of when you`re hearing things that truly come from other people, and when they are actually your own thoughts or subconcious feelings that you are projecting onto other people. This sounds more like something you have extensively struggled with - whether wearing hijab means you can`t be liberal or open-minded. As I don`t wear hijab, it isn`t my fight.

As for the conflict between hijab and liberalism: I always thought that wearing hijab was a signal to yourself, to God, and to the world that as a Muslim you had forsaken a more liberal code of dress and behavior for a more conservative one. You`ve said before that you wear hijab but don`t mind wearing tight jeans to show off a ``sexy ass``. Doesn`t this go completely against what the hijab stands for? By definition, you cannot be as liberal in dress and behavior when you are wearing hijab, if you are truly honest to what it represents.

Believe it or not, when I was in college and the president of our Muslim students group (yes, me!) I thought about wearing hijab. But I rejected the idea because I couldn`t make the commitment I felt it required - to all or nothing. Let me tell you that the disapproval and criticism that came from my hijab-wearing sisters, who looked down on me and thought I was ``weak`` and not as moral as they, was as harsh and disturbing as what you face from people who can`t understand your hijab.

And just because we disagree on this point doesn`t mean that the greater issues we fight for (I am pretty sure we`re on the same side here) are sabotaged. Like Omar, I`ll fight for your right to wear hijab, but I don`t necessarily have to believe in it. And you shouldn`t need my approval to feel good about it yourself!

Re: Zehra

I did not want to offend you so I am glad that you didn`t take offence. You say the essay was not analytical but `cathartic`, not meant to edify `any issue`. Oh.. I see. You don`t have a point. Well Zehra bibi, next time you feel the need for some catharsis please read yourself your little essay, have a good little cry and get over it. And if you must put it on Chowk, please do so with a disclaimer so people like me won`t make the mistake of thinking you have something meaningful to say.

Also in your reply, you claim that ``I am not oppressed and never said I was``. Now if that is the case...why the need for catharsis? Also in your article you refer to your ``struggle`` and the ``substandard`` manner in which Muslims are treated.

But wait... I think you said ``multiple readings give you a different perspective each time``. What the hell does that mean?

Regarding the schizophrenic family raising issue: Not knowing you or your family, it was not intended as a slam on them. What I meant was that we have a whole generation of Pakistani immigrants in this coutnry that have raised their kids in a very disjointed manner. And judging from a lot of the discussion it seems that a lot of these kids have great identity problems (ie they lack one).

I have read your other essay, and thought it was well written and generally enjoy your responses to other peoples articles. But this so called essay is lacking. How many essays were entered in this competition...2? I now understand the `c` in abcd a lot better.

Faraz

re: all who are remotely interested in this discussion about hijab ( bina and omar1974).

bg just lately said that she didn`t feel that she had to explain anything about herself. im going to take the same stance. you are so right bina...i don`t have to justify it to anyone to feel good about myself..and i don`t know why i get into the whole hijab thing. perhaps because omar will predict my life for me and how my parents, the ones he has never met will react to certain things. he manages to offend me so then i feel obliged, in my anger , to write back. whatever it is, hate hijab, hate me, it really doesnt matter to me :) bina, i said you reminded me of a close minded freak just for that instance. you are one of the people on chowk i admire and respect the most, even though there is this one issue that we will never agree on...its not even that we are not agreeing, its just that there is no allowance for people to be diferent in your prespective and differnce in all aspects of life is something that i thrive on. its all good. allow me to back down from the hijab discussion, its one that i don`t like to get into and makes me overly defensive since i feel i am being attacked.

rizvi

i can`t help myself...

Omar1974: would it surprise you to know that my parents had a ``love`` marriage and that it was inter-cultural? would it surprise you to know i know whats it like to have loved and lost, and loved again and to have lost it again? and then start alll over again? bina: the disapproving hijabi sisters you have to deal with..surprise surprise, i also had to deal with them...someone told me that if i didn`t respect hijab and couldn`t make the proper commitment, then i shouldn`t wear it, my answer to her was that it was between god and myself and the third party had nothing to do with it. its a personal choice about how we all want to live our lives..regardless of how much omar would like me to see the error of my ways or why i do everything i do, its still up to me. thanks.

rizvi

re: omar1947. the article i was referring to by bina is called `` a heavy price to pay`` by far one of the most chilling and disturbing takes on the shariat bill and how the first thing to go will be womens rights. an awesome piece.

Dear Zehra,

Having read your hijab discussion on the two articles (reply sections) as you suggested, i no longer wish to belabour my point beyond this post. You have already admitted that now there is no choice, your parents just expect you to wear it. I predicted this as being 1 of the 2 possible reasons (the other a sincerely misguided religious belief).

However, I am glad to know that you have a strong individual personality, that is very clear, and can think for yourself. Its also clear that the issue is more complex for u than the average hijaban. Well, enough said.

Perhaps Shahbaz said it best (#26 on Bina`s article), that by giving up your freedom when you have the choice, you demean the women who have no choice, and elevate their enslavement & Suffering into something noble as opposed to mere oppression that they are forced to suffer silently. That was why I brought up the Balauch/Afghan women before, but what Shahbaz said was much more articulate. I remain indebted to his insight.

P.S don`t imagine i haven`t considered that you have a perfect right to ``freely`` embrace the hijab (like I said, while i don`t approve, i would be willing to fight for your freedom to do so so, not that you need my help), but MY WHOLE POINT throughout this discussion was afterall, the serious doubts i expressed as to your TRUE LEVEL OF CONSENT (and these remain). I feel somewhat justified now in my thinking so after reading your old posts on the issue, however, and this is important, I no longer wish to categorize u into some box with every other mindless hijaban. `Cause lets face it, you don`t fit into the preconceived mold completely. And that is what you were really fighting for people to understand right ? That you should not be prejudged simply because you were the basmati rice bag headgear ? I got it. If I said anything even in jest, that hurt you before, please forgive me.



OMAR1974

re AA
``Being
bombarded in the 80s by Zia induced television that screamed religious propaganda, and presented
one bearded man after another, and ended the day`s tv entertainment with Farman-i-elahi and the
national anthem, one feels strangely about religion. Religion and Nationalism, all in one cup of bed
time medicine. Seeing women tv actors cover their heads even while they slept in bed. Zia handing
chaddors to dignatory wives, symbolizing, ``well this is how we want are women to be --wrapped up
in chaddors..`` Seeing society become more and more hyprocritical in terms of religion. Telling you, I
think it has an effect on you.

Ont thing, religion starts to scare you.``

you said it very well. those were dark times, truly scary.

Re: Ras Siddiqui post # 45

I agree totally with your sentiments on the need of the Muslim community to politically, economically and culturally, within the main stream American media context, to organize an effective lobby for its owns interests in the United States.

Re: Altaf post # 43

Thanks for telling your me your profession, because within that context, your argument makes perfect sense. My friend, we can go around in cirles debating this issue ala hijab, and still not settle the debate. In all honesty, as a social worker, I am amazed by the passion, dedication, time and effort which your profession puts into helping others. In the same vein, I can understand how my, a politico working for the Republicans in this American political circus, indifference to your causes might rankle you!! :)

As to the Latinos having nothing to compromise, there is a grain of truth to that statement, but yaar, the American Political Waltz works this way: one step forward, two steps back, one step sideways and turn, one step forward, two steps back..... and so on.... I could sense your committment to the struggle and I know you are in the front line trenches of this particular battle, but remember, it is always wiser to retreat and fight another day, than hold your ground and be overrun!!! As Lord Byron said, ``Fight! Fight for freedom`s cause where ever you may be...``, but it is your ability to compromise, compromise and compromise, in the political arena, which will keep you and your cause alive and you`ll always be around to fight another day!

Re: Omar1974

The word you were looking for is not ``Che``, but ``Qué`` as in ``Qué sera sera, what will be will be....`` Che is the nom d`plume, une nom d`guerrre for Ernesto ``Che` Guverea, the famous revolutionary who was Fidel Castro`s right hand man during the Cuban Revolution and the person who was portrayed by Antonio Banderas in the movie Evita.

Incidently, and this amuse all the medical professionals on Chowk, but Che, an Argentine, was trained as a medical doctor and had volunteered to be a doctor with the Cuban revolutionary invasion force training. However, when he landed in Cuba, the force came under fire and he had to take shelter from the fire and was separted from his medical supplies. After searching around for his medical bag, he spotted it lying next to a rifle. He had a choice: he could pick his medical bag and be a doctor or he could pick the rifle and fight. He picked up the rifle. In making that decision he chose to participate in what he believed in instead of being a mere observer. He chose to play instead to being just another spectator.

To me that is what life is all about. Making a decision and then living with the consequences of your actions.

As to your tete a tete with Zehra, all I can say is, nicht mehr (more), bitte nicht mehr mein freund! In a rather ironical way, you by your posts, have suggested that the greatest obstacle, many Pakistani-Muslims immigrants and the second generations, have towards assimilation is not the resistence of the natives (Americans, Canadians etc.), but rather the insecurities of the ``liberal`` Pakistani-Muslims. You, in a manner of speaking, see Zehra`s hijab as a social commentary and as an antithesis to the image you are seeking to foster in this society as a secular, western educated and progessive Pakistani muslim.

Take my word for it Omar1974 (though it is 1999 and you are 25yrs out of sync with reality) but Americans do not give a damn how Zehra choses to dress. Yes, they may not understand the significance of the hijab, but that is their problem. Why are you so bothered by this? In many ways, and why I love this country, most Americans will judge you on the content of your character and not on how you dress!

In all the posts so far, I have not seen Zehra critise you for not wearing French cuffs, (the current symbol of power)or prefering a belt over suspenders...what difference does it make what clothing accessory she puts on her head! I like and respect Zehra for who she is and what she thinks and I don`t care if she wears a dunce cap and walks around the town with a sign that says, ``kick me, I am a dork!``, I still love her for the person she is!

Re: Zehra

Are you familar with an Irish song called Danny Boy. Anyways, I would like to paraphrase its ending: Zehra...I love your soul! Don`t worry bud, I will slice and dice for you any time and dress the way you like and if people do not like it, well just tell them that it is better to set a fashion trend than follow one!

Read ya later aligator!!!

salam umar 1974:

well i guess i offended you by not assuming that you might or might not be a muslim thats why i used the brackets.

i am very pleased that you are very proud of your muslim identity but you were very quick to judge someone who you don`t know and tell her, the reasons why she is a hijabi......

well right now i am in a computer vocational class so i will check your other responses later.

mubbashir the non-muslim

Re: Ferozk #59

I agree with your criticism of Omar1974 discomfort with the hijab. I think autonomy and choice in one`s dress are important pieces. The hijab means different things for different people. The same autonomy and self affirmation with which one may wear the hijab, may signify all repressive things in a repressive culture for someone else. Anyhow, while I associate the hijab with oppression, heat and brutality on women`s bodies, I also view it, in different contexts as cultural resistance(for example Muslim girls wearing the hijab in France)and struggle against imperialism (the use of the veil in the Algerian struggle for independece.) Sorry, can only think of North African/French examples.

Anyway, you say important things, but so much flattery! Please.


Re: BG #57

Thank you for noticing my reply! I think the Muslim experience here is so different, and judging from the replies to this essay, lots of issues and searches for identity -lots of pros and cons of the hijab struggle. I`m glad you relate though with the mass media (and other) violence perpretated on Muslim identity in Pakistan.
Noticed my paragraph in your reply, but you deleted the part about religion being a joke. Deliberately or just don`t agree or just don`t want to get into that `cause too much or `cause its an irrelevant personal observation?

Ferozk: Yes, of-course, one has to compromise... in politics it is all about timing, and using one`s instinct to an extent to gague when to strike, and when the time is just right... now the Repubcs`. timing in case of impeachment was a fascinating example of bungling and not realizing that America is no longer living in the 40s or 50s it`s the end of the 90s... :) I have all the respect for true conservative republicans for whom conservativsm means integrity, and values... these psuedo conservatives are just as bad as ``liberals...`` This hijaab debate, oh dear, boring really, read it all before... nothing new. Thanx for the conversation, will talk some more on another article...

re: feroz

regarding what you had to say about ``che``. its kinda interesting to see the evolution of the word , phrase of ``che``. it is now used commonly is Argentina as an additive..like saying, ``like`` or when you have nothing to say its just che..like a full bodied italian shrug that communicates tons. the character of ``Che`` in evita struck me as her conscience, and i thought antonio b. was very appropiately named, with a play on the word, Che.

re:omar1974. yeah lets be friends now..but let me ask my mummy daddy if its ok. lord knows i don`t move a muscle without asking them first. to heck with individuality and my own personhood, why need that when we have patriarchs like you to do the thinking and analyzing for me :)

z `kick me, im a dork` rizvi.

re AA
``Noticed my paragraph in your reply, but you deleted the part about religion being a joke. (``Religion scares me. I associate it with the world`s most perverse joke on humankind.``)
Deliberately or just don`t agree or just don`t want to get into that `cause too much or `cause its an irrelevant personal observation?

well, my own experience resonated so immediately with the initial part of the post (brilliant snap-shot of the zia years), that it was a no-brainer to quote it. the last sentence requires some thinking on my part. i guess, i would choose the ``just too much`` of the options you have listed, in the sense that too much to think about there.

are we talking about institutionalized religion? are we talking about personal belief systems that are not usually labelled religion, but act as one? are we talking about doctrines that are just as oppressive, but again, called something else, like `free enterprise`? furthermore, the joke part implies that someone played it on someone else. who do you think played the joke -- gawd? SR`s devil in the pin striped suit?

lets talk :) i really want to know what you think and maybe clarify things for myself a little along the way.