The Chowk Jam!

Shafqat: Saad, yaar, I admire your extroversion! By the way, I`m all for it. What`s the worst that can happen? So, we all won`t be as beautiful as our words reflected, and we might see some disappointed expressions when we extend a hand (``Hi, I`m Cheeno.``

``YOU`RE Cheeno? I expected a 6`` 2` hunk with rippling pecs.``

``Actually, on the inside, I am just that...``)

And we might not all hit it off. So what? If things don`t work out, those of us who want to, can go about their own business, and have a vacation exclusively with their family or something.

Here`s how I imagine some of the regular players here (and I say all this lovingly):

Feroze: on the slim side, about 5``8/5``9, curly black hair, fair skin (by Paki standards).

You (Saad): 5``10-11, sanvla, moustache (sometimes), glasses, worried about your hair loss--and gotta work on that little bulge in the abdominal area that us 33-year-olds have to watch like a hawk!

BG: tall, thin, dark, beautiful, too much energy!

SR: short-medium height, thinning hair, relaxed, easy demeanor.

Anita: 5``5, maybe? short-medium length hair, can`t stop talking (remember, l o v i n g l y).

MAK: a strict father.

etc. etc.

Can`t wait to see how WRONG I am!

Feroze: Hey, please, DO save us money, if it means showing off till you`re blue in the face!

Majnoon: Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I just think you gotta lighten up a bit. Actually, how can people be out to make an impression any more on an electronic forum than in real life? In a forum such as this, many people operate under pseudonyms, so the showing off factor doesn`t really stand. And most of the others are probably never going to see each other anyway. Oh well. To each his own. By the way, I insist you come in case this get-together thing ever materializes. Sha... sh..., okay, kababs on me!!

BG: would you come?

Cheeno

re: chowk get-together..

if you all are serious, im game. i am curious to ask why i was nominated...who`s been whispering about my great organizing skills here?

just a thought..how would our interactions change after meeting in the flesh? would we all be obliged to be `nicer` or would things be just as they are? how would it affect the interactions for those who would not be able to attend...chowk should never be seen as some private club that only some can be a part of..

suggestions for a location: (1) my place, i have a pool. (im kidding, my parents would have a cow cuz it would actully have to be at their place, `my` place is a tiny apt). (2) montreal or quebec city, its just gorgeous there. (3) morrocco..just cuz ive always wanted to go there. (4) SF, NY or Seattle...why not soak up some culture while we are at it? (5) Vermont..some nice ski resort or sumthing (6) some lake place..(7) any place that guarantees that we can sit around, drink chai and soak up some sun during the day and sit around a fire at night, all the while talking...any throat irritations can be cured by anita, saad and sohail. herbal tea could also do the trick.

temporal: rationality is for losers anyway :) you are talking to a piscean..we don`t believe in rational :)

rizvi

I am an occasional visitor of Chowk. In the beginning I enjoyed a few articles, but the quality of articles have deteriorated considerably. Then, I stumbled upon the replies. The first time I read the replies I felt odd about the tone and the mannerisms of the participants. Since, I am not particularly fond of such forums and find then somewhat tedious, I attributed this weirdness to my distaste of the forum. On insistence of a friend I read a few more replies. Although, most of the replies were very interesting and informative I still did not enjoy reading them and continued to have the same feeling. I tried to analyze the reasons for this strange feeling, now bordering on dislike. I wrote a long email message to my friend on whose insistence I got involved in Chowk. In this message I tried to explain the reasons for my dislike of Chowk like forums in general and promised my friend that I will communicate my feelings about Chowk replies to other contributors. After reading a few more replies sessions I came to the following conclusions, which I want to share with you:

1. Most of the replies are posted by the same group of people, which tends to become boring after a while.

2. This core group of people has a great interest in finding personal information about the other people in the group. This is very distracting to the other readers/contributors.

3. Most replies are written in a pretentious manner. The terms like yar and bhaijan seem forcibly injected. Even those people who write in somewhat simplistic form, seem to be putting on a persona.

4. Some contributors have a tendency to preach and be pedagogic. I was particularly incensed by an instance when someone referred to a couplet from Ghalib and then went on to explain the meaning of various words.

5. The people of the core group seem to have an incredible need to impress others with their knowledge of other topics, languages, cultures, etc. Most of the times such ostentatious show does not contribute anything to the ongoing discussion.

6. It may be that the average Chowk contributor is much younger than me and I am too old fashioned to fully appreciate the communication behavior facilitated by modern technology. I still prefer meeting my friends once or twice a week for a good gup shup with sharab and kabab.

Your suggestion of get-togther is quite interesting and several times I came across this idea. I fully endorse Saad`s recommendation with an addition of Anita in the committee (I know Saad you`ve been so humble).

MAK

You`ve got good memory and mine is not too bad. I have been busy writing and then presenting paper in a conference in San Jose, Costa Rica and what a fabulous and exciting the trip was!! I would love to write what I observed in a small but live city.

regards

MAK

Re: Chenno post # 28

Yiddish....makes sense!

Self modesty is a virtue which I can`t afford! On this score, I stand guilty.

Hey, next time you`re in town, give me a buzz. We will find ourselves a kosher deli and share a bagel with some schmeer. Perhaps, a little Irish coffee with a touch of Bailey`s Irish Creme. After I am drunk, we`ll both say a little kaddish for the soul of Pakistan!

Would love to talk with you. You got what the Jews call menschkeit! All you now need is a little chutzpa. Remember, the world is full of schmucks and putzkopfs with their yodels hanging out of their hosens! Just show some chutzpa and tell those yadzts to mind their own scheiss! You will go a long way!

Oh, I just speak one language English....the German and the French is interest related to couple of other things!

Vos Vydinia Tovorvich!

Cheeno & Anita:

I am not too keen on costumes. What if the contest is over Hijab? (Sorry Zehra, can`t let go of rationality, can we?!)

Anita:

``....extenuating circumstances`` hmmmmmm!

Saad:

Great idea! I second with a proviso. Each participant be granted ONE veto over guest list. Afterall we wouldn`t want every ALif,Bay or Tay there, would we?

Regards

Cheeno Agha writes:

``How about having a little Chowk get-together in the flesh ?``

An excellent idea. I believe this idea has been previously floated but did not gain momentum. Some kind of a retreat over a long weekend can be really fun. We could go to some remote and quiet place, like the idyllic Appalachian mountains. Can you just imagine exchanging notes on life (and solving the world`s problems) with the Chowk gang under one roof ?

I`m all for pursuing this idea and hereby propose that we set up a committee to do a feasibility study (seriously). For serving on the committee, I would like to nominate Sohail Rabbani, Zehra Rizvi, Wasiq Bokhari, Safwan Shah and Cheeno Agha, with Sohail probably serving as chair.

How about it, you guys ? Let`s get together to get the show on the road!

Saad

Re: Cheeno and temporal

``...A little suggestion on costumes: loincloths for men and Xena: Warrior Princess get-ups for the ladies...``

I second this! No contestant can appear in purdah - got to let it all hang out!!!

Anita

Re: SR

``I am presently self-employed and working full time (managing private investments and monitoring a couple of small enterprises), however, being unemployed is my distinct preference.``

INVESTMENTS!!! in other words exploiting the capitalist market, Sohail:-)

Anita

re cheeno

``when are you sending in something to soothe our parched eyes``

i defer to SR`s spurts theory. going through some serious burn out due to over work. there is no light at the end of the tunnel, but i`m working on digging a hole in the side :)

First of all, my GOSH I misspelled ``wary`` (shouldn`t have been ``weary``) and cringed the two times it was quoted. FerozeK: Yaar tu kithnee zubanain boltha hai? Impressed, even if you do show off. Did a little digging and finally found the correct spelling: it`s VAKLEMPT. I`m no linguist shinguist, but have been around a couple (SR: +/- 1) of Jewish people, which is why I know this is a Yiddish word meaning stuffed, crammed, or very full. In our context, it means overcome with emotion, rendered speechless due to fullness of emotion, etc. etc. Happy? Who wouldn`t be with all those sweet nothings murmured in French, all that wine, and so much sex....ooosh, all that sex!

BG: ``...you, or your poem...``

Glad to be the vessel for your relaxation, my dear. Any time.

``...nahin, nahin, i insist, you must jump in whenever you get some time off...``

Okay, okay, baba, if you insist. By the way, when are you sending in something to soothe our parched eyes?

Temporal: Zabardust idea, yaar. A little suggestion on costumes: loincloths for men and Xena: Warrior Princess get-ups for the ladies. What say you?

RR: Thanks. Oh, I know most of these are well-educated people. And I guess SR is right about most of them appearing in spurts. I`m just aware of my addictive tendencies, so I try to steer clear unless totally `necessary.`

SR: Thanks for answering my questions. The reason I asked them was because I have come across very few desi men like you. Little Gabru sure is one lucky fella to have you for a dad. Hope he`ll bring you all the joy you truly deserve.

MAK: Thanks for writing in, Sir-ji. Haven`t `seen` you in a while. Speaking of tiffs, I remember I came across one between you and SR a while back. I don`t remember which piece it was in response to, but it was classic! You said something to the effect of ``...women wearing light clothing and shaking butts in smoky bars....`` (forgive me if I didn`t quote you exactly). And then SR with his UNFORGETTABLE Mairaj/Zionist conspiracy scenario. Fabulous!

To All: How about having a little Chowk get-together in the flesh?

RE: SR post # 25

A hundred jurors, Chowkmanagers, trial by InterAct evidence. Sounds like a good idea....I think Ken Starr is looking for new job opportunities.

This thing keeps getting fine tuned and refined the way it is, soon there will be a Chowk bureaucracy. Then we will be debating BG`s conceptulization of politics with special interests fighting for a slice of the Chowk. The decision making process is going to be narrowly defined by the Chowk Club, a group of interacters who will control the content and volume of ``Chowkspin``. Who is going to write the Chowk Bill of Rights? Who will draft the Chowk consitution?

I agree with Temporal`s solution to this problem and to which I will add this thought: after the mortal battle, lets shoot the victorious gladiator too!

Anita bibi; I am not merciless just indifferent!

Cheeno Reply #: 17

[``…a couple of personal questions …
What do you do for a living,
and how much time do you spend reading?
did you grow up in a liberal family?…``]

First of all, these are 3 question, so I am at a loss to determine which ``couple of `` them you want me to reply? So I`ll flip a coin on each, head: I answer, and tail: I don`t.

1) I am presently self-employed and working full time (managing private investments and monitoring a couple of small enterprises), however, being unemployed is my distinct preference.

By way of clarifiction, I`ve had no involvement with the medical sciences or public health since the late 1980s, and yes, Anita was right that I am not (have never been) a member of the AMA (or any other organization).

Unfortunately, over the last year I`ve made some horrendously costly and unprofitable moves that have compelled me to start taking economic life very seriously once more. Had it not been for that, I`d still be semi-retired, as I`ve been for several years. Instead I`m reduced to spending round-the-clock time slaying the money dragons around the globe. And yes, still having fun.

2) Tail. (Any way, these days all I get time to read is reports, analysis, charts, models, statements etc., etc. Literature, history, philosophy, current affairs and technology etc., are just nostalgic memories.)

3) I wouldn`t exactly call my family `liberal` but there was never any real zeal or pressure growing up, either religious, or social or academic. My parents (especially dad) were relatively old when I was born. They were busy with their very active lives and they were indulgent and undemanding so no `performance pressures` were ever there.

[``…is a lot of fun, but it makes me wonder where people get all this time in a rat-race society such as this. I`m a bit weary of getting addicted myself, so I`ve vowed to keep my interactions limited…``]

Yes it is fun and that is the only reason any of us ever log-on. Where people get the time from is a question that we`ve all asked. At any given time it appears that a corps of people is actively involved and spending all their free time on-line. But this is usually an illusion. It only appears that these people have nothing else to do. A closer looks reveals that the cast of characters keeps changing as `regulars` fade in and out. Some do become `addicts` but for the majority it is simply short-lived spurts of on-line activity followed by periods of relative inactivity. At least that is how it is with me.

There are times when a discussion comes up that I feel like participating in, but time and energy constraints do not permit involvement. Time and energy are the most precious (and finite) resources and their expenditure has to be rationed and prioritized. In the process a lot of compromises have to be made. There is, for instance, a fascinating thread on evolution going on right now, jumping from article to article, that I find very inviting. Wasiq and Saad have done a great job and others have made very valuable contributions (in particular, one of Wasiq`s posts, IMHO is the most brilliant and outstanding ever - he just keeps getting better and better). In situations like these, I feel, one should check references and verify particular facts before making a comment. When the time and energy are not there one is better off simply being a passive reader than being a participant with little of value to contribute.


To ALL, Re: Trial by voting:

When I suggested the `jury trial` idea it was motivated by finding a way to put `peer pressure` on feuding parties so that they AVOID personal `tiffs`. The ``for`` and ``against`` vote and the public apology ideas, of course, are fraught with peril as pointed out by the some of the titans. I think temporal`s (gladiator style duel) idea is far superior, plus it has the advantage of being `decisive`:).

It was not my intent to pursue this voting thing seriously, but since many have commented (unfavorably) it needs some more refinement.

First we should have a pool of one hundred registered chowk jurors. These one hundred will be randomly selected from the current readership and invited to serve on the jury. Once we have a hundred jurors, they will be asked to vote whenever a trial is held. The Chief Editor shall serve as the Chair during the trials. Then we should have 13 chowk managers (with one-year terms) who scan all the InterActs and find instances of transgressions being committed by various chowkwallas. These 13 managers will bring on the trials. Only a 2/3rd majority of jurors can convict the wrongdoer. No prosecution or defense will be permitted. The 100 jurors will only base their vote by reading the feuding parties` InterActs which have formed the basis of the trial.

helpfully yours,

...SR

re cheeno
``I`m a bit weary of getting addicted myself, so I`ve vowed to keep my interactions limited to times when one of my writings is posted ``

yaar, cheeno, if all of us did that then whom would you respond to? nahin, nahin, i insist, you must jump in whenever you get some time off from the rat race.

Re: Cheeno,

Don`t get me started again, yaar...I can`t afford to have the merciless FRK on my wrong side - the bromides may kill him :)

To address the BROADER issue of whether I think it is my right to know if the same person is operating under more than one name (or two people are connected to each other) - I would say only under extenuating circumstances...

Btw, are you a man or a woman? someone called you Ms.

As for temporal bhai`s gladiator suggestion, that, in my opinion is the best one so far. At least we`ll all get to see whose behind the pseudonyms:)

A