Discovering Ali Hasan

re: ferozk..``silly little girl``

ouch

rizvi

Re:Shandana,

Yeah it`s pretty clear in the story that Shanon`s beauty is what first attracts Ali`s attentions and thus makes her a ``possibility``. Which is a very typical male response. What I find both annoying and amusing is that one will often see a below average looking guy who isn`t anything great in other aspects of life either, thinking that only a beautiful girl should be lucky enough to be with him. Now in the west this type of guy will quickly be rebuffed when he asks her out and hence will lower his standards.

Now in our desi arranged marriage world, when some ugly old guy expects a beautiful girl, often times they succeed because the girl`s families are often insecure about if their daughter will ever get married and hence to proceed with the match.

All over the world one will often see couples where the woman is beautiful and the guy is not even close in good looks. However I`ve very very very rarely seen the opposite- A handsome man with an average or below average looking woman.

On a side note: A friend and I were discussing the other day about how in the desi arranged marriage world, if someone has a major physical disability or suffering from a major illness than their hopes of getting married are very very low.

I read a beautiful story in Reader`s Digest of a man who fell in love with a woman who is terminally ill with cancer and is expected to die in 2-5 years. Yet he married her knowing this and showers her with unconditional love making her last few years as happy as he possibly can.

Has there ever been such a story in the subcontinent? I`ve never heard of any...

Regards,

Fozia

I`m tickled to death by your response JamshedN. My advice to you though, you don`t really need a wife, just get a maid (hire some filipino or Sri Lankan in the gulf). Afterall, based on what your requirements are, that is really all you require, (why do u need to involve your mother & sister afterall you`re a grown man)and you can even start a family with her, and she`ll raise the kids, and you won`t need to pay for a baby sitter! Or get a Massi!

OMAR

re: slinks

2 out of 10 things? Are you saying we only get to see your self-censored side? Maybe you should call yourself slink lite. I think you should be more liberal with your wisdom. After all it causes be great pain to know that I could be getting 5 times as much ``enlightenment`` from you as I do right now!

Now since you seem to be hung up on this size debate, let me point out that all I was saying was that if we are going to make psychological assesments based on some peoples refusal to use capital letters then we should note that on Chowk, at least, this condition exists primarily in women. In the real world, ofcourse guys are more concerned with size (but we weren`t talking about that we were talking about Chowk and capital letters).

Oh and the appearance thing. Sure guys are more visually-oriented in their mating habits. Big deal, that`s just the way it is (not just in Pakistan either). In the same manner, I can say that desi korees are way too influenced by money. Infact I would venture to say that a guy`s personality, looks and worth as a potential mate in a desi girls eyes are correlated with his bank balance. Now before you throw another hissy fit, let me say that this is a generalization and a crude one at that (much like your comment about guys and women`s looks).

``thought police``. Humaree billee, humain hee meeow? When I first used the term feminazi it was exactly this that I was talking about. Why else would I be so attacked for saying that there was nothing wrong in wanting a ``proper`` girl? Thought policing comes more from the liberals who feel an urgent need to protect their latest cause (such as the plight of lactose-intolerant people in Ethiopia)and to enforce political correctness. I would be more than happy to police thoughts, as well, but haven`t found too many here lately.

Oh and regarding how my `kind` has so pressured women in to obsessing with their looks. (how this is caused by male influences). Hmm. In your infamous Lahore ``article`` you made fun of Lahori guys for obsessing over their looks because they were shallow and insecure. However if women do it, its because the male-dominated world is oppressing them. (I wonder where Lahori women fit. In the insecure pool because of their city, or in the oppressed pool because of their gender?) But once again I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe through my evil habits of actually being attracted to women that are not fat, I have caused a lot of pain in this world. I am sending all such oppressed women I know, a million twinkies each so they can make up for all the missed ladoos and barfis. I hope they will forgive me and can now eat and grow plump to their hearts content.

Apka humble ``Idiot`` and the first link in the ``chain of asinine evoution.``

Faraz

ps Re: JamshedN

Good luck with your search. The importance of the second requirement has started to dawn on me only recently.

shandana/slink/shandy/eklarki/herslinkness:

bhayeeyehkyabaathooi?surfingthrutheresponsesyounheenchaltaychaltayithoughtthiscannotbehappening!getmesomemoreicethnakyouhaantouiwassayingsuckingontoesorbitingforthatmatterareindicationofdireneedforsecuritysortofcarrywithyousecurityblanket.thankyoucanihavesomemoreofthathaantouwhatisthematterwiththisworldofoursthatyouthinkcannotbeattributedtomen?haanjiachchajisir/madamji?Chaltaychaltayyehbhikhayaalaatahaikayifmardauratjeewankigarrikaydoupayyayhaintousarailzaamsirifekpayyayparkiyoundiyajaai?kabhibuskibaathotihaysometimeswetalkoflineofcontrolthendraginthousandyearoldbiasesreligioncarriersaurnajanykiyajantartmantarandthenwegobacktofreud&jungetall.lagtahayagarallmenarecastratedthenallorifnotallatleastmostproblemswouldberesolvedlaikinkabhikabhihumsouchtayhainwhatislifewithouththisminorirritation?aurhaanaapkiwohbaatdesimalestreanofconsciousnesswalibuhatachchilagee.khushraho,

re sR

okAy, hOw aboUT tHis? is tHis sTyLe toO wIeRd? wiLl sLinK`s azeEz hamWatAn haVe a cOw? (lEt mE telL yoU, iT taKes aN awfULly loNg tiMe to tYpe tHis waY, buT miGht gEt beTter wIth prActiCe)

meray azeez humwatanperson aka Faraz,

are you suggesting i cannot be tactfully silent?!? that is far more insulting than any allusion to your stupidity (soddy sentence construction again *sigh *).since you`re giving me the benefit of the doubt (no doubt because i`m a ``hastrical`` desi woman) give me also leave to tell you i generally say only 2 out of every 10 things i want to say. this restriction is self-imposed for two reasons
one..words often fail me and i just grimace instead, though of course you can`t see that.
two..desi men get annoyed and claim i`m a feminazi.

as for chowk making me feel like a small person and hence compelling me to write in lowercase..you`re absolutely right. surrounded as i am by idiots, i cannot help but feel i`m just an amoeba in the chain of asinine evoution.

there is indeed nothing more annoying than a `stream a consciousness` spouting desi. i shall keep a sharp eye out for them and let you the minute i see one so you can call the thought police.

obsession with size a purely female thing?!? halooo? i`ve yet to see a bunch of women sitting around comparing, but all the men i`ve ever been close to have been very hung up on size in relation to both the male and the female anatomy. one interesting issue that this story brought up that i have been tactfully silent about so far (see?) is the fact that appearance is an important consideration to a man sizing up a `possibility` whereas women don`t attach so much importance to it.i also think any (and i grant there is a lot) feminine neurosis about weight,size etc can be traced to the pressure exerted upon women to conform to a mans idea of what is desirable..the fact that women now put as much pressure upon each other to look a certain way is secondary..the primary influence was male.
any responses to the above would be welcome.
i shall now go and chew on my other foot.
shandana

I have asked my mama to find a girl for me.........my specification are pretty much clear........LARKI JO KHAANA ACHA BANATI HO , AUR (MERAY SEY)ZIADA BOLTI NA HO.

After reading the article and the subsequent 62 replies, it is pretty interesting to know that ali`s conflict in the story has turned into a debate on `proper and apropriate` behaviour of the desi male in a multicultural west. Feminists have presented their point well...the need for the desi male to come out of his dominant/ confused / mama`s boy behaviour and mature into an `egalitarian` `normal` male of the ninties with the `right` kind of aceptable `table manners` for the feminists. Desi lads are also clever in suggesting that at the end of the day.....its the good, desi, sharif, piyaaaaare bacchi that he needs to fit into his life of a conformist desi male.



I was discussing adult relationships with an indian friend in dubai last year, and i told him that of all the friends at my university in lahore, not one married the girl he loved / dated and almost everyone is satisfied with marriage. well, my indian friend told me ....either u guys are the most primitive of all races ...or the most advanced......



I have been through three unsucessful relationships and now I am twenty seven, I have been through puppy love and platonic love and first sight love and every sight love......but just been unlucky (lucky??).....so the only way i can start a family is to find a girl quickly, which my mama / sister can...n get married .



When i started with my quest for that perfect girl (now woman), i felt that it was compusory that my relationship would have love, attraction, sexual need, platonic understanding, intimacy, common interests etc etc...........now, when i have asked my mama to find a girl for me after 12 years of pacing the sands of sahara` .........my specification are pretty much clear............LARKI JO KHAANA ACHA BANATI HO , AUR (MERAY SEY)ZIADA BOLTI NA HO.

Re: Omar1974 and Lady Zehra

Just a distraction....

All right you two! Enough of this I said - I said tete a tete.

Now Omar, lets talk about this slapping episode shall we? I need to know what were the circumtances and what were your intentions my friend! Nothing honorable I hope?

Zehra, Omar may not be trying to change you, but I am. I just talked with a voodoo witch doctor and she tells me that if I take one white piece of cloth, one lump of coal, two bits of dog hair and an empty McDonald`s cheeseburger warper, and some virgin olive oil and burn them together, you will, lo and and behold, no longer be a silly little girl, but will be able to write and InterAct on Chowk without annoying Temporal`s lingusitic sensibilities!

I am awaiting the first salvo of your return fire....

Ferozk : Well, they were definitely not honorable. In fact now that i recollect what i said publically about her before, repeatedly, i was just asking/begging for this kind of response. I have no wish to repeat what i said.

My fault entirely. It had one heck of a sting though, i can testify to that. I thought about dumping her right then and there, then decided that i was making a real mountain out of a molehill, since i was the one in the wrong anyway, upon rational reflection. So, we discussed it and cooled off.

OMAR

dearest omar: thanks for not wanting to change me in any way...lets try one more tiny thing..stop telling me who i am :) the reason i say this (beating a dead horse i know) is that you still make comments like, ooh, rankled you didn`t i? when oooh, you really don`t :)

have you heard from the chowk staff abour piece yet? i think it takes about two weeks for them to read and decide etc...unless there isn`t a large volume of material being handed in. good luck with that...the piece i was going to send to you got LOST becuase of the stoopid virus on my disk..im looking for a backup copy..

later

z

Dear Zehra,

I already repeatedly stated in my earlier posts on your article that i am not categorizing you into some repressed desi chick box (I read too many of your previous posts to make that mistake). I am NOT kidding. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF G-D stop saying that you think i want to change u in any way, shape, or form, or have this idea of your being a VICTIM of any kind. If i make a generalized comment w/o specifically referring to you, it means that you shouldnt think you are always just a target as the TOKEN HIJABI FEMINIST.

I`ll say this for the last time JUST to be CLEAR. I HAVE EVERY RESPECT FOR YOUR IDENTITY & NO SECRET DESIRE TO SEE YOU CHANGE WHATSOEVER AS I HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY, but we always come back to your making the same comment that i want to see u change etc.

On a lighter note, yes, being smacked hard across the face is pretty stunning. And after the initial anger comes under control (pindrop 1, pindrop 2 ...)in the long run its probably true that i would respect someone who could do it if i really deserved it (on reflection I REALLY, SERIOUSLY DESERVED the smack i got). And im a better man for admitting it. :)



OMAR

FARAZ;

SORRY TO JUMP INTO AN ONGOING DISCUSSION LIKE THIS BUT I COULD NOT RESIST IT. COULD NOT CARE LESS--- AS LONG THE SENTENCES ARE PUNCTUATED. NOW THAT IS A THOUGHT IF THIS LOWER CASE BUSINESS SPREADS, THE NEXT THING WOULD BE COMMAS AND STOPS. THAT WILL BE LIKE A NOVICE READING GHALIB. WELL, COULD BE A LOTTA FUN.

t(withalowercase)emporal

Re: temporal

Yes that is exactly the problem. Capitals today, punctuation tomorrow. And there is nothing more dangerous than a ``stream-of-conscious``ing desi!

Faraz

dear Faraz,

terribly sorry but i forgot to hold the shift key down in my last post hence the `f` was little.i will now keep tactfully silent and say nothing about the male obsession with size.

her slinkness (do you think you can get everybody to call me that? or do i have to unintentionally insult them too?)

re:omar and my s-spot

i know you must be a real stud in rael life omar but it does take a lil more to hit my sore spot. keep trying..all i was saying is that by the types of comments you make generalizing all womenfolk into one category or box, i wonder about you not being smacked..and truth be told..you would probably respect the woman more if she did..case in point, your current gf...seeing how you really don`t knwo me or what makes me tick, yet you are convinced you have me pegged down to be a seroisuly repressed desi woman..so be it..i dont and the time nor the inclination to change your preception of me..regardless of what you think, im still going to be me :)

on a more serious and less personal note..thanks for bringing up the part of kids growing up here and their parents still 20 years backwards in pakistan. its absolutely unfair of parents to expect children to grow up like they did years back in another country trying to hold onto values that are so foreign to them (children). i was talking to a friend over the weekend and we talked of culture and identity and neither being ameican nor pakistani. pakistan is just an idea, a homeland that represents certain concepts. the trend is that pakistan represents concepts of repression and opression. he was telling me how hard it was for him to relate to being pakistani when he had nothing but his parents idea of pakistan to hold onto. finding his own niche, his own perception of who he was and who he is is still being formed but it is more stable. the term `abcd` used to offend him beyond belief...for me both terms fob and abcd fit. it depends on who i am hanging out with...those who have never lived in paksitan call me a fob for having lived there for 7 years and for having picked up quirks in my language becuse of it and people who haved lived in pakistan for most of their lives call me an abcd..too american to actully be pakistani according to them..my accent is too amreekan for them. i would continue but i need to evacuate viruses living on all my disks. lucky me.

z.rizvi