Discovering Ali Hasan

Re: Omar1974 and Lady Zehra

Just a distraction....

All right you two! Enough of this I said - I said tete a tete.

Now Omar, lets talk about this slapping episode shall we? I need to know what were the circumtances and what were your intentions my friend! Nothing honorable I hope?

Zehra, Omar may not be trying to change you, but I am. I just talked with a voodoo witch doctor and she tells me that if I take one white piece of cloth, one lump of coal, two bits of dog hair and an empty McDonald`s cheeseburger warper, and some virgin olive oil and burn them together, you will, lo and and behold, no longer be a silly little girl, but will be able to write and InterAct on Chowk without annoying Temporal`s lingusitic sensibilities!

I am awaiting the first salvo of your return fire....

Ferozk : Well, they were definitely not honorable. In fact now that i recollect what i said publically about her before, repeatedly, i was just asking/begging for this kind of response. I have no wish to repeat what i said.

My fault entirely. It had one heck of a sting though, i can testify to that. I thought about dumping her right then and there, then decided that i was making a real mountain out of a molehill, since i was the one in the wrong anyway, upon rational reflection. So, we discussed it and cooled off.

OMAR

dearest omar: thanks for not wanting to change me in any way...lets try one more tiny thing..stop telling me who i am :) the reason i say this (beating a dead horse i know) is that you still make comments like, ooh, rankled you didn`t i? when oooh, you really don`t :)

have you heard from the chowk staff abour piece yet? i think it takes about two weeks for them to read and decide etc...unless there isn`t a large volume of material being handed in. good luck with that...the piece i was going to send to you got LOST becuase of the stoopid virus on my disk..im looking for a backup copy..

later

z

Dear Zehra,

I already repeatedly stated in my earlier posts on your article that i am not categorizing you into some repressed desi chick box (I read too many of your previous posts to make that mistake). I am NOT kidding. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF G-D stop saying that you think i want to change u in any way, shape, or form, or have this idea of your being a VICTIM of any kind. If i make a generalized comment w/o specifically referring to you, it means that you shouldnt think you are always just a target as the TOKEN HIJABI FEMINIST.

I`ll say this for the last time JUST to be CLEAR. I HAVE EVERY RESPECT FOR YOUR IDENTITY & NO SECRET DESIRE TO SEE YOU CHANGE WHATSOEVER AS I HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY, but we always come back to your making the same comment that i want to see u change etc.

On a lighter note, yes, being smacked hard across the face is pretty stunning. And after the initial anger comes under control (pindrop 1, pindrop 2 ...)in the long run its probably true that i would respect someone who could do it if i really deserved it (on reflection I REALLY, SERIOUSLY DESERVED the smack i got). And im a better man for admitting it. :)



OMAR

FARAZ;

SORRY TO JUMP INTO AN ONGOING DISCUSSION LIKE THIS BUT I COULD NOT RESIST IT. COULD NOT CARE LESS--- AS LONG THE SENTENCES ARE PUNCTUATED. NOW THAT IS A THOUGHT IF THIS LOWER CASE BUSINESS SPREADS, THE NEXT THING WOULD BE COMMAS AND STOPS. THAT WILL BE LIKE A NOVICE READING GHALIB. WELL, COULD BE A LOTTA FUN.

t(withalowercase)emporal

Re: temporal

Yes that is exactly the problem. Capitals today, punctuation tomorrow. And there is nothing more dangerous than a ``stream-of-conscious``ing desi!

Faraz

dear Faraz,

terribly sorry but i forgot to hold the shift key down in my last post hence the `f` was little.i will now keep tactfully silent and say nothing about the male obsession with size.

her slinkness (do you think you can get everybody to call me that? or do i have to unintentionally insult them too?)

re:omar and my s-spot

i know you must be a real stud in rael life omar but it does take a lil more to hit my sore spot. keep trying..all i was saying is that by the types of comments you make generalizing all womenfolk into one category or box, i wonder about you not being smacked..and truth be told..you would probably respect the woman more if she did..case in point, your current gf...seeing how you really don`t knwo me or what makes me tick, yet you are convinced you have me pegged down to be a seroisuly repressed desi woman..so be it..i dont and the time nor the inclination to change your preception of me..regardless of what you think, im still going to be me :)

on a more serious and less personal note..thanks for bringing up the part of kids growing up here and their parents still 20 years backwards in pakistan. its absolutely unfair of parents to expect children to grow up like they did years back in another country trying to hold onto values that are so foreign to them (children). i was talking to a friend over the weekend and we talked of culture and identity and neither being ameican nor pakistani. pakistan is just an idea, a homeland that represents certain concepts. the trend is that pakistan represents concepts of repression and opression. he was telling me how hard it was for him to relate to being pakistani when he had nothing but his parents idea of pakistan to hold onto. finding his own niche, his own perception of who he was and who he is is still being formed but it is more stable. the term `abcd` used to offend him beyond belief...for me both terms fob and abcd fit. it depends on who i am hanging out with...those who have never lived in paksitan call me a fob for having lived there for 7 years and for having picked up quirks in my language becuse of it and people who haved lived in pakistan for most of their lives call me an abcd..too american to actully be pakistani according to them..my accent is too amreekan for them. i would continue but i need to evacuate viruses living on all my disks. lucky me.

z.rizvi

Re: her slinkness

You and ``tactfully silent``? Khuda vo waqt na lae! I don`t think you`d be any fun as the quiet type. Hain Jee?

Aur as long as we are talking obsession with size and its relationship to the use of capitals, let`s not forget that so far this ``condition`` has only affected women. Maybe its some web based psychological need to be a small person. Maybe you guys could even write about the oppressive social conditions on Chowk, which force you to write in small letters when your heart secretly cries out for the freedom that is UPPERCASE. Maybe you are all uppercase women trapped in lower case keyboards. Now that`s a tangent worth pursuing. Kyon jee?

Faraz

dear faraz,

of course it was shoddy sentence construction.

shandana

Dear Zehra,

Thanks for your comments. I guess i was just trying to point out that not all desi guys are so bad as to want their mama`s to pick out their wives for them. Come to think of it, in Freudian terms, isint that just a little bit sick? The woman who gives birth to you also picks who you share a bed with? Or is it just me thats out of touch with reality? So much for all the good mama`s boyz.

Z says: Re Omar: repression creating serious mental problems in desi chicks..

one day some chick is going to just smack you..unless it hasn`t already been done.

REALLY !!!! I seriously doubt that (its been done just once, by my current gf and i don`t remember why). If anything i`m a pretty good shoulder to cry on, and someone who generally can be counted on to empathize. As for being smacked, gee thanks ... feel free anytime. Its true i probably would let any woman get 1 freebee ....:) FRANKLY ZEHRA, i`ve seen just a bit too much repression among desi chicks up close and personal to just ignore it. And it seems to be the direct result of the desi culture. It doesn`t matter whether its in Pakistan or in N.America. Its the same crap dished out by the majority of desi parents everywhere that creates psychiatric patients out of their otherwise perfectly healthy normal daughters. Some suffer silently, others act out.

But i suppose one can argue its most interesting from a clincal study point of view when the kids grow up in N.America while the parents are still mentally still living in Pakistan (of 20 years back). That really creates the most serious problems for the kids. I think that the reason you felt like smacking me is that what i said hit a sore spot and really rankled with you. Otherwise you`d never have lost your cool.

Its okay Z, like i said, one freebee (its true I can usually just about get anyone`s goat).

Smile,

OMAR

Re Omar: repression creating serious mental problems in desi chicks..

one day some chick is going to just smack you..unless it hasn`t already been done. repression creates problems in ALL people..though i do feel that desis are better equipped to handle and ignore it and lead relatively normal lives. the strength to deal with repression is inherent for the average desi, male or female. and just for clarification purposes, i don`t consider anyone on chowk to be the average desi. also, i read your article and it seems that chowk may go ahead and publish it..it wasn`t all that risqué as you claimed it to be..talk to shahbaz ( where is that boy?)..you seemed to want to elicit a reaction from me ( seeing how i am the token hijabi feminist non-conformist activist on chowk)..truth be told, i thought it well written, a lil more editing would refine it and it was entertaining. thanks for sending it on to me. i wasn`t recoiling from anything you had written cuz i have friends who would fit the character you portrayed. one of them a former boyfriend.

Re: sr and the lowercase conspiracy..

my lips are sealed and go back to my other posts..im always lower case…i don`t believe however that ive gone from Zehra to zehra as of yet..the cult headed by ``---`` has not fully transformed me, but i have said too much already. do not worry, dear SR, we are safe and loved and will be better human beings for this. (that`s what the brochure said) sachee main waisay, im just too damn lazy and i like the way it looks. though when i type my replies up in a Word document, it automatically capitalizes etc for me..so that is nice :) i have had complaints about it before. also, thanks for responding about your kids growing up and the kind of identity issues they may or may not face..im looking to actually design a major that deals with culture, politics, ethnicity, history and philosophy all in one..the closest thing ive come to that is folklore..lets see kya hota hai.

Re :feminism

just to add on to what bg has said about feminism…people will always ask how i can call myself a feminist and still wear hijab and support arranged marriages, or the big one, plan on not having some professional career..that actually angered many of the young women i studied with at a woman`s college..well, the answer is simple, feminism allows me to be whoever i choose to be. whoever i choose to be is the most important thing to me and i realize that somewhat naively i assume the rest of the world will follow suit..that is just who i am..

Re: the pakistani male

fozia seemed to think it was natural for him to feel this way since its just a crush. tto me, as i mentioned before it seemed really pathetic that one glance of her was enough but then again, that is the idea of ishq in pakistan..for the masses atleast. this is why i believe that arranged marriages to some extent do work in pakistan and other places around the world ( faraz, i don`t feel that most marriages are unhappy..many are but not most..gross generalization on your part). personally, since the idea of this kind of ishq does not jel for me, i would never be satisfied by an arranged marriage but there are people whom it works for, and why not let them be happy? in omars story, (the one he thinks chowk will not publish for content, he emailed it to me), one of the women portrayed is this bold and daring creature but she goes ahead and marries in the traditional way. in the story ``for my love`` on chowk, read the two sides that there are to every issue..its never, never just black and white. i hope that makes sense to some extent..sorta tangential but then that always happens on chowk :)

as a sidenote: all those interested in a big chowk bash, email me at errerr@hotmail.com. im just seeing how many people would actually want to attend. feedback is important.

z. rizvi

re: bg

No offense intended. It is a pretty funny term though (and no, I`m not a fan of Rush).

re: Her Slinkness

``that comment was not a personal statement meant to hint at your stupidity``

I`m hoping that was just poor sentence construction and not another insult!!! I`ll give you the benfit of the doubt.

Faraz

ps. Oh and ladies, its ``Faraz`` not ``faraz``. I know its a big zehmat for you but please, maree khatir, hold down that shift key.

re faraz

`` feminazis``

dear faraz, you have hit a nerve. pardon me while i go into a monologue:)

first of all, ``feminazi`` is just a label to discredit feminists/feminism. and like all other labels, it is meaningless. it is meant to deride, not to respond to any real feminist concerns or arguments.

secondly, this lable feminist + nazi implies a fascist feminist. this may be a funny way to retort, but does in no way do any justice to the feminist ideology or movement. the most basic definition of feminism that most feminists would probably agree to is: equal rights for women and men (however defined). no feminismt movement has every been fascist in the way that movements in the US or europe are/were or like the religious movements in our part of the world are. i can understand when rush limbaugh coins and uses this term (what else can one expect from him?) but it is troubling coming from others who may not have bothered to think about the term or about feminism.

thirdly, feminism has NOTHING TO DO with man-hating or man-bashing. if women attack men, it doesnt mean that they are feminists or that feminism promotes man-hating or that all feminists are man-haters.

the best feminist thinking focuses on power analysis and at its core, feminism is a challenge to traditional relationships, distribution and structures of power.

feminist critiques go way beyond what are understood as gender relationships -- that is the relationship between men and women. they include contributions to history, philosophy, epistemology, sceince, theology, economics, politics and popular culture, to name a few. speaking for myself, feminism has given me a whole new look on LIFE, not just women, not just men. it has not taught me to hate men. on the contrary, i am much more sensitive now to different kinds of oppression that men and women face for different reasons.

regards.

re sr

you are cracking me up. no, please dont write in lower case only. as easy as it may be to type, its harder to read ;)

fyi, i know one man who types in lower case only, inspired by crunchy-granola organizations who use lower case only (in their materials) to appear friendly, accessible, informal.

i think the men on chowk dont, because aside for a few notable exceptions, they tend to be more conformist than the women. (of course i`m not suggesting that using lower case only is some kind of political statement, but it does show indifference to tradition)

you already know why shandana and i do it. lets see what zehra has to say...

dear dear sr,

i`ve always used lower case (you can go back and look at my oldest posts on chowk main forum if you like..or you can just take my provocative word for it). it`s because i`m too lazy to find the shift key.if i did it once, then the beginning of every sentence would expect me to act the same way.
if there is indeed a conspiracy..i`m not going to be the one to break and spill the beans.

.handana