Discovering Ali Hasan

Re:SR

``Assuming a normal distribution in beauty it should follow that there are equal numbers of ugly as well as good-looking men and women. You assert that the good-looking women get hooked up with the ugly guys. Okay, we`ll accept that, but then the question arises: what happens to all the ugly women and all the good looking men? Since good looking men and ugly women are not hooking up, are we therefore to assume that the ranks of the unmarried are swelling up with the leftover ugly women and good looking men? ``

I didn`t say that handsome men are being doomed to bachelorhood. However I would dare to think that some ``ugly`` women would have trouble finding a mate. One thing that we need to remember that due to naturally higher male infant mortality rates (baby girls will eventually grow into child-bearing women and nature has made their natural defenses stronger as such), there is always a slightly higher number of women around then men. There are countries where men outnumber women ,but that is due more to female fetuses being aborted or to malnourishing the female children then to natural occurance.

So because there are more women in this world men have more ``selection`` and handsome men have no trouble finding a woman who is attracted to him. And since men do give more preference to looks than women, these guys will invariably be with good looking women.

Not-so-handsome men can also feel at liberty of finding a beautiful wife, because many women are insecure about being single forever , they are just happy to have a man in their lives. :)

My real question to what I wrote last time was: Why don`t I ever see handsome men with below average looking women? These women don`t necessarily have to be ``fat``, they may just not have fine features, or in desi world- have extremely dark skin or anything else that is presumed to be unattractive to a particular culture.

Regards,

Fozia

Fozia Reply #: 71

You wrote:
[``…over the world one will often see couples where the woman is beautiful and the guy is not even close in good looks. However I`ve very very very rarely seen the opposite- A
handsome man with an average or below average looking woman…``]

Your comment has really perplexed me. I`ve used my abacus to calculate it seven different ways, but no matter what formula I use, the math does not work out.

Assuming a normal distribution in beauty it should follow that there are equal numbers of ugly as well as good-looking men and women. You assert that the good-looking women get hooked up with the ugly guys. Okay, we`ll accept that, but then the question arises: what happens to all the ugly women and all the good looking men? Since good looking men and ugly women are not hooking up, are we therefore to assume that the ranks of the unmarried are swelling up with the leftover ugly women and good looking men?

Re: Shandana, BG, Zehra and all other font co-conspirators.

It has been discovered, following a thorough investigation that a conspiracy is indeed underway. The above named three women are actually one and the same person and he is a middle aged man, who is not really a man but an alien from outer space.

There have been several more message writers on Chowk lately who have come out of their lower-case closets and unveiled their true colors. It has been learnt that these people are all aliens who founded the cult popularized by the poet e. e. cummings, and they actually intend to use the Chowk to undermine the very foundations of language, indeed of all culture and civilization as we know it.

Arise ye wretched of the Chowk, and unite to end this plague.

jamshedN: ``When i started with my quest for that perfect girl (now woman), i felt that it was compusory that my relationship would have love, attraction, sexual need, platonic understanding, intimacy, common interests etc etc...........now, when i have asked my mama to find a girl for me after 12 years of pacing the sands of sahara` .........my specification are pretty much clear............LARKI JO KHAANA ACHA BANATI HO , AUR (MERAY SEY)ZIADA BOLTI NA HO. ``

is it only good food and a good listener you want from a life partner? is it difficult to find someone you love and respect, who has a brain, or is it not worth the wait?

omar1974: ``My advice to you though, you don`t really need a wife, just get a maid (hire some filipino or Sri Lankan in the gulf)``

hmmm...i assume you are thinking of a male maid, right? a pakistani would do just as well, no?

Feroz:

If we discover what makes any two people `tick`, then a cure for common cold, cancer, spinal cord injuries etc, would be just round the corner. Matters such as these (of the upper or lower extremities) should best be left a la Tennyson!

Tangent: heard a story why our Pinky babe fell for that Mustachiou. For reasons we all know, everyone treats Pinky with kid gloves. Once, she suffered a minor injury. Our feudal Moustache took charge and bundled her off in his car to the doctor. The rest, as the clicche goes, is history.


Tangent2: Take two tablets for the headache.

regards

Slink/Shandana : JamshedN ? does not deserve a true partner in life, given this mentality. I do not wish to see him create another martyr in yet another vagina (now i do remember that phrase from a chowk article, love it, whoever coined it)out of some actually sentient (this would be the real tragedy, if she were actually self aware enough to posess an independent consciousness of her own self worth and existence independant of her husband)Pakistani girl whom he would reduce to the status of a maid. Hopefully he just made these comments to provoke us, and really doesn`t mean them. But there are others who in real life want precisely what this gentleman articulated. Not someone to share the simple joys and pain of life with, the poetry of Ghalib, the jublibation of career success, the euphoria at buying the first BMW, etc. No, for him a woman w/o an education or a brain (preferably a village illiterate, abused as a child and made `passive`) will suffice just nicely, for she will not feel herself at least to be confined by his attitude, will accept all, and have few if any expectations in life of her own. Her happiness will consist of seeing him satisfied in life, as she waits upon him (JamshedN) hand and foot, and does the cooking, cleaning, and the rearing of his children. (I don`t mean to suggest he would want to cannabalize his own kids -grin-) She will lie quietly on her back, take no pleasure, and be satisfied in the thought that he husband is satiated. After that, he will just turn the lights out and roll over.

OMAR1974 `Painting a clear and vivid picture`

Ferozk : Just 2 words for u buddy.:)

Louis XIII V.V.S.O.P

$120/shot

Re: Zehra post # 68

Zehra, are you still hurting...? Do you require some medical attention...? :)

Re: Fozia post # 71

In response to your good looking woman - average looking man comment, I have seen many beautiful women who were dating just ordinary looking men. A friend of mine dated Niki Taylor and married her. His name was Matt Martinez; there was a story about them in some magazine a long time ago. (In case you`re wondering, Niki Taylor hails from Idaho). He was an average looking guy.

One of my dorm friends used to date cheerleaders and he was overweight, balding, crude, sexist and just plain disgusting. One of my fraternity brothers, considered as not too easy on the eyes, would date these incredible sex nymphs. I know friends who date plain looking women even though they could do so better with good looking ones.

It all boils down to a personal sense or level of confidence. One of the girls, who is a babe, told me that she was dating this average guy, because he would not cheat on her since he knew that he couldn`t do better than her. Another friend, though he dated some really good looking women, married the second girl he had sex with, because he didn`t think he could get it else where. Now, she is abusive to him, mocks him in front of others and he just takes it, because he thinks he can`t do better than her. It is all about confidence.

Concerning the RD story about the woman with cancer and the man who married her, it happens, but it is still an exception to the rule. I do not know what the term is from the female side of the equation, but we males refer to it, one of us suffering from, as being p * *sy whipped! Enough of this putting the woman on a pedestal and worshipping her. I have never chased a woman out of the door and apologised to her for making her mad. Some times I just want to offend them, because they are so full of themselves. In fact, I tell them that if they walk out of the door, I am changing the locks!

Re: JamshedN

You have the right idea...delegate responsibility to others!

Re: Temporal #66

That was interesting, but reading it gave me a headache! Were you trying to be subtle and suggest something to someone?

Re: Omar

Hey, no problem. We have all said things that we have regreted. I have had my share of those moments too. While in college, I was the author of some really fine faux pas. Like when a serious girlfriend of a friend over heard me say that he was having sex with another girl!

Though I have never been slapped, I did once kick a girl in the butt during a party, because she did not get out of my way fast enough!

Some day, we will have to share these stories over some brandy and cigars.

re: ferozk..``silly little girl``

ouch

rizvi

Re:Shandana,

Yeah it`s pretty clear in the story that Shanon`s beauty is what first attracts Ali`s attentions and thus makes her a ``possibility``. Which is a very typical male response. What I find both annoying and amusing is that one will often see a below average looking guy who isn`t anything great in other aspects of life either, thinking that only a beautiful girl should be lucky enough to be with him. Now in the west this type of guy will quickly be rebuffed when he asks her out and hence will lower his standards.

Now in our desi arranged marriage world, when some ugly old guy expects a beautiful girl, often times they succeed because the girl`s families are often insecure about if their daughter will ever get married and hence to proceed with the match.

All over the world one will often see couples where the woman is beautiful and the guy is not even close in good looks. However I`ve very very very rarely seen the opposite- A handsome man with an average or below average looking woman.

On a side note: A friend and I were discussing the other day about how in the desi arranged marriage world, if someone has a major physical disability or suffering from a major illness than their hopes of getting married are very very low.

I read a beautiful story in Reader`s Digest of a man who fell in love with a woman who is terminally ill with cancer and is expected to die in 2-5 years. Yet he married her knowing this and showers her with unconditional love making her last few years as happy as he possibly can.

Has there ever been such a story in the subcontinent? I`ve never heard of any...

Regards,

Fozia

I`m tickled to death by your response JamshedN. My advice to you though, you don`t really need a wife, just get a maid (hire some filipino or Sri Lankan in the gulf). Afterall, based on what your requirements are, that is really all you require, (why do u need to involve your mother & sister afterall you`re a grown man)and you can even start a family with her, and she`ll raise the kids, and you won`t need to pay for a baby sitter! Or get a Massi!

OMAR

re: slinks

2 out of 10 things? Are you saying we only get to see your self-censored side? Maybe you should call yourself slink lite. I think you should be more liberal with your wisdom. After all it causes be great pain to know that I could be getting 5 times as much ``enlightenment`` from you as I do right now!

Now since you seem to be hung up on this size debate, let me point out that all I was saying was that if we are going to make psychological assesments based on some peoples refusal to use capital letters then we should note that on Chowk, at least, this condition exists primarily in women. In the real world, ofcourse guys are more concerned with size (but we weren`t talking about that we were talking about Chowk and capital letters).

Oh and the appearance thing. Sure guys are more visually-oriented in their mating habits. Big deal, that`s just the way it is (not just in Pakistan either). In the same manner, I can say that desi korees are way too influenced by money. Infact I would venture to say that a guy`s personality, looks and worth as a potential mate in a desi girls eyes are correlated with his bank balance. Now before you throw another hissy fit, let me say that this is a generalization and a crude one at that (much like your comment about guys and women`s looks).

``thought police``. Humaree billee, humain hee meeow? When I first used the term feminazi it was exactly this that I was talking about. Why else would I be so attacked for saying that there was nothing wrong in wanting a ``proper`` girl? Thought policing comes more from the liberals who feel an urgent need to protect their latest cause (such as the plight of lactose-intolerant people in Ethiopia)and to enforce political correctness. I would be more than happy to police thoughts, as well, but haven`t found too many here lately.

Oh and regarding how my `kind` has so pressured women in to obsessing with their looks. (how this is caused by male influences). Hmm. In your infamous Lahore ``article`` you made fun of Lahori guys for obsessing over their looks because they were shallow and insecure. However if women do it, its because the male-dominated world is oppressing them. (I wonder where Lahori women fit. In the insecure pool because of their city, or in the oppressed pool because of their gender?) But once again I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe through my evil habits of actually being attracted to women that are not fat, I have caused a lot of pain in this world. I am sending all such oppressed women I know, a million twinkies each so they can make up for all the missed ladoos and barfis. I hope they will forgive me and can now eat and grow plump to their hearts content.

Apka humble ``Idiot`` and the first link in the ``chain of asinine evoution.``

Faraz

ps Re: JamshedN

Good luck with your search. The importance of the second requirement has started to dawn on me only recently.

shandana/slink/shandy/eklarki/herslinkness:

bhayeeyehkyabaathooi?surfingthrutheresponsesyounheenchaltaychaltayithoughtthiscannotbehappening!getmesomemoreicethnakyouhaantouiwassayingsuckingontoesorbitingforthatmatterareindicationofdireneedforsecuritysortofcarrywithyousecurityblanket.thankyoucanihavesomemoreofthathaantouwhatisthematterwiththisworldofoursthatyouthinkcannotbeattributedtomen?haanjiachchajisir/madamji?Chaltaychaltayyehbhikhayaalaatahaikayifmardauratjeewankigarrikaydoupayyayhaintousarailzaamsirifekpayyayparkiyoundiyajaai?kabhibuskibaathotihaysometimeswetalkoflineofcontrolthendraginthousandyearoldbiasesreligioncarriersaurnajanykiyajantartmantarandthenwegobacktofreud&jungetall.lagtahayagarallmenarecastratedthenallorifnotallatleastmostproblemswouldberesolvedlaikinkabhikabhihumsouchtayhainwhatislifewithouththisminorirritation?aurhaanaapkiwohbaatdesimalestreanofconsciousnesswalibuhatachchilagee.khushraho,

re sR

okAy, hOw aboUT tHis? is tHis sTyLe toO wIeRd? wiLl sLinK`s azeEz hamWatAn haVe a cOw? (lEt mE telL yoU, iT taKes aN awfULly loNg tiMe to tYpe tHis waY, buT miGht gEt beTter wIth prActiCe)

meray azeez humwatanperson aka Faraz,

are you suggesting i cannot be tactfully silent?!? that is far more insulting than any allusion to your stupidity (soddy sentence construction again *sigh *).since you`re giving me the benefit of the doubt (no doubt because i`m a ``hastrical`` desi woman) give me also leave to tell you i generally say only 2 out of every 10 things i want to say. this restriction is self-imposed for two reasons
one..words often fail me and i just grimace instead, though of course you can`t see that.
two..desi men get annoyed and claim i`m a feminazi.

as for chowk making me feel like a small person and hence compelling me to write in lowercase..you`re absolutely right. surrounded as i am by idiots, i cannot help but feel i`m just an amoeba in the chain of asinine evoution.

there is indeed nothing more annoying than a `stream a consciousness` spouting desi. i shall keep a sharp eye out for them and let you the minute i see one so you can call the thought police.

obsession with size a purely female thing?!? halooo? i`ve yet to see a bunch of women sitting around comparing, but all the men i`ve ever been close to have been very hung up on size in relation to both the male and the female anatomy. one interesting issue that this story brought up that i have been tactfully silent about so far (see?) is the fact that appearance is an important consideration to a man sizing up a `possibility` whereas women don`t attach so much importance to it.i also think any (and i grant there is a lot) feminine neurosis about weight,size etc can be traced to the pressure exerted upon women to conform to a mans idea of what is desirable..the fact that women now put as much pressure upon each other to look a certain way is secondary..the primary influence was male.
any responses to the above would be welcome.
i shall now go and chew on my other foot.
shandana

I have asked my mama to find a girl for me.........my specification are pretty much clear........LARKI JO KHAANA ACHA BANATI HO , AUR (MERAY SEY)ZIADA BOLTI NA HO.

After reading the article and the subsequent 62 replies, it is pretty interesting to know that ali`s conflict in the story has turned into a debate on `proper and apropriate` behaviour of the desi male in a multicultural west. Feminists have presented their point well...the need for the desi male to come out of his dominant/ confused / mama`s boy behaviour and mature into an `egalitarian` `normal` male of the ninties with the `right` kind of aceptable `table manners` for the feminists. Desi lads are also clever in suggesting that at the end of the day.....its the good, desi, sharif, piyaaaaare bacchi that he needs to fit into his life of a conformist desi male.



I was discussing adult relationships with an indian friend in dubai last year, and i told him that of all the friends at my university in lahore, not one married the girl he loved / dated and almost everyone is satisfied with marriage. well, my indian friend told me ....either u guys are the most primitive of all races ...or the most advanced......



I have been through three unsucessful relationships and now I am twenty seven, I have been through puppy love and platonic love and first sight love and every sight love......but just been unlucky (lucky??).....so the only way i can start a family is to find a girl quickly, which my mama / sister can...n get married .



When i started with my quest for that perfect girl (now woman), i felt that it was compusory that my relationship would have love, attraction, sexual need, platonic understanding, intimacy, common interests etc etc...........now, when i have asked my mama to find a girl for me after 12 years of pacing the sands of sahara` .........my specification are pretty much clear............LARKI JO KHAANA ACHA BANATI HO , AUR (MERAY SEY)ZIADA BOLTI NA HO.