Jamal Hasan April 7, 1999
#202 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Maliani Special:
This is what passes for radicalism in Balauchistan today. The idea the womyn should actually be educated, and not kept locked up inside the house. I could be shot to death for articulating such extremist views in Balochistan today. Balauchistan has a 2% female literacy rate today largely because of its unique `cultural` reasons. That is Baloch reality. Also applies to almost as much Pakhtuns. My unsolicited advice Maliani, first get out of the Feudal age, THEN talk to me about modern day 20th century nationalism.
regards,
This is what passes for radicalism in Balauchistan today. The idea the womyn should actually be educated, and not kept locked up inside the house. I could be shot to death for articulating such extremist views in Balochistan today. Balauchistan has a 2% female literacy rate today largely because of its unique `cultural` reasons. That is Baloch reality. Also applies to almost as much Pakhtuns. My unsolicited advice Maliani, first get out of the Feudal age, THEN talk to me about modern day 20th century nationalism.
regards,
#201 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Special attention to Maliani
If wishes were horses, Pakhtoon, Sindhi and Balauchi nationalists would ride them. (That is to say beggars, dreamers and horse thieves).
I don’t know what these various sub-national groups think they will actually gain by getting
‘independence’. Look at the economic prognosis for Quebec if it leaves Canada. A Quebec dollar
worth half the Canadian dollar. You are free to ride the sands of Balauchistan on your camels even today! Do you really think ‘independence’ will mean MORE CAMELS for you?!!! LOL.
Omar
Yeah, I’m out to offend everyone on Chowk who still can`t come to grips with the realities of the 2 nation (and only 2 nation) theory(political correctness out the window), its becoming a crusade.:)
If wishes were horses, Pakhtoon, Sindhi and Balauchi nationalists would ride them. (That is to say beggars, dreamers and horse thieves).
I don’t know what these various sub-national groups think they will actually gain by getting
‘independence’. Look at the economic prognosis for Quebec if it leaves Canada. A Quebec dollar
worth half the Canadian dollar. You are free to ride the sands of Balauchistan on your camels even today! Do you really think ‘independence’ will mean MORE CAMELS for you?!!! LOL.
Omar
Yeah, I’m out to offend everyone on Chowk who still can`t come to grips with the realities of the 2 nation (and only 2 nation) theory(political correctness out the window), its becoming a crusade.:)
#200 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
A candid observation likely to infuriate a variety of groups:
Bengalis owe M.A Jinnah and United Muslim Independence struggle in the 1930s and 1940s, from India a great deal. Today, by virtue of the freedom they obtained in 1947 (not the `freedom` they obtained in 1971 which was an indebted-indentured servitude) they are not the lapdogs of Hindu, er excuse me, Secular India. In this they are fortunate, for their plight is significantly better than that of the Indian muslims who grovel under daily indignities seeking to justify their very existence.
Omar Mirza
Social and historical commentator, telling the bare, ugly truths that no one else will admit to,
at least not publically.
Bengalis owe M.A Jinnah and United Muslim Independence struggle in the 1930s and 1940s, from India a great deal. Today, by virtue of the freedom they obtained in 1947 (not the `freedom` they obtained in 1971 which was an indebted-indentured servitude) they are not the lapdogs of Hindu, er excuse me, Secular India. In this they are fortunate, for their plight is significantly better than that of the Indian muslims who grovel under daily indignities seeking to justify their very existence.
Omar Mirza
Social and historical commentator, telling the bare, ugly truths that no one else will admit to,
at least not publically.
#199 Posted by khokan on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
FerozK in post # 192 has stated:
There is no hierarchy of suffering and nor should there be one. We as human beings being should not legitimize the scales of human misery or suffering, because every time we do that, we lose a certain peice of our own humanity and become just a little more intolerant towards others. We should all do well to remember the words of the English poet John Donne:
``Every man`s death diminishes me for I am involved in mankind.....therefore, do not send to ask for whom the bells toll; it tolls for thee!``
FerozK wrote the above for the purpose of establishing that it was not just wrong, but plain immoral, to say that the systematic murder of 3 million Bengalis was any worse than the murder of even a single person anywhere in this world.
FerozK is drawing the wrong message from John Donne`s lines. That`s not what the poet meant when he started off with ``No man`s an island.`` Yes, every person`s murder is a tragedy. But it is dishonest to imply that the systemetic murder of 6 million Jews during Hitler`s time or of 3 million Bengalis during Yahya Khan`s time should not be termed any worse than the murder of a single person anywhere in this world for it will diminish the suffering of that man. In FerozK`s book, it is wrong to refer to the enormity of the mass murders in Germany or in Bangladesh for it might diminish the enormity of every single loss of life in the rest of the world! I think it is his way, and a grossly insensitive one at that, of denying the enormity of Hitler`s and Yahya Khan`s crimes.
No one is suggesting that the loss of a single life does not count. But FerozK`s subterfuge seems to be merely his way of denying that the
Yahya Khan regime, like the Nazi regime of Germany, had indulged in crimes that have few parallels. And to do so, he has spun his own interpretation of the well known lines from Donne.
There is no hierarchy of suffering and nor should there be one. We as human beings being should not legitimize the scales of human misery or suffering, because every time we do that, we lose a certain peice of our own humanity and become just a little more intolerant towards others. We should all do well to remember the words of the English poet John Donne:
``Every man`s death diminishes me for I am involved in mankind.....therefore, do not send to ask for whom the bells toll; it tolls for thee!``
FerozK wrote the above for the purpose of establishing that it was not just wrong, but plain immoral, to say that the systematic murder of 3 million Bengalis was any worse than the murder of even a single person anywhere in this world.
FerozK is drawing the wrong message from John Donne`s lines. That`s not what the poet meant when he started off with ``No man`s an island.`` Yes, every person`s murder is a tragedy. But it is dishonest to imply that the systemetic murder of 6 million Jews during Hitler`s time or of 3 million Bengalis during Yahya Khan`s time should not be termed any worse than the murder of a single person anywhere in this world for it will diminish the suffering of that man. In FerozK`s book, it is wrong to refer to the enormity of the mass murders in Germany or in Bangladesh for it might diminish the enormity of every single loss of life in the rest of the world! I think it is his way, and a grossly insensitive one at that, of denying the enormity of Hitler`s and Yahya Khan`s crimes.
No one is suggesting that the loss of a single life does not count. But FerozK`s subterfuge seems to be merely his way of denying that the
Yahya Khan regime, like the Nazi regime of Germany, had indulged in crimes that have few parallels. And to do so, he has spun his own interpretation of the well known lines from Donne.
#198 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Iconoclast and all other Indians:
THE OTHER FACE OF INDIA CONT`D
Incidently, the fact that you claim to be South Indian arguably makes for an equally justifiable
case for the BJPs foot soldiers, the RSS, VHP and Shiv Sena for treating you as a `ghaddar/traitor`,
to Hinduism and its larger culture, for being a convert (even if your family converted many centuries ago). I don`t think their ideology will spare you, even if you `claim no mughal descent,` and plead this point with them earnestly when they come to your doorstep (again, not your doorstep per se) When they come, be sure to take pictures. I wouldn`t want history NOT to be recorded. And be sure and write about it, I also want to read about it, in detail. Who came, how, how many etc, what happened, who got stabbed, who got raped, precisely by how many, how you (not you in particular but the community in general) fought back, what the casualties were. I hope T.V cameras are there to record the event, perhaps CNN can carry live coverage of the rampaging Hindu mobs of Secular India. We`ll see if we can differentiate them from the rampaging communal mobs of non-secular India. I`ll look for subtle differences, manner of death inflicted and so on, to see if i can tell the difference. You (again not you per se in particular) can as the resident expert point out the subtle variations of death inflicted. Like see this particular muslim (as you/others point to the corpse) he was killed by a member of the RSS, see they left their special mark on the body, this other one, she was raped by Shiv Sainaiks, see they left their special mark here then they cut her throat, but slowly, so she would suffer. We have learned to be able to tell the difference, so many bodies examined and so forth you see, (the Indian muslim gives a smile to the reporter, filled with pride as he narrates his skill at picking out forensic evidence from headless corpses). The VHP, they have their own unique style, see, here is video footage, they took the muslims to the temple first, to reconvert them. Then they said they didn`t believe us as we prostrated ourselves before Kali ma. So they shot us. I escaped with 2 bullets in my chest, see here. That is how i survived to describe in detail all these events so that the U.N Commission on Genocide can take action. Unfortunately as we know, Hindu Revivalist India, er I mean Secular India (to reporter: could u edit out that part please, i don`t wanna get into any more trouble for saying that), is nuclear armed, so i don`t really hope for justice, or NATO bombs. We live, that is G-Ds mercy. Praise be to him. The government ma send us cheque to cover our losses. Govt is so kind. What can we expect after oppressing them for 500 odd years, if they still have a slight inferiority complex you know. Understandable, completely. India is still a secular democracy. Praise be to its SECULARITY! Hail Kali Ma! Bal Thackray Jindabad! Hail the Bombay riots of 1992-93, they are greatly exaggerated anyhow, all a misunderstanding you see. As for 1947, well the Sikhs are really not to be blamed at all, trains were not running on schedule, so Sardar-jees got a bit miffed, the muslims were responsible for the delays you see. Sardar-Jees, now these fellas they were so helpful, little helpers of godot, sending people to the hereafter on time and all. Really a good turn they did. The rapes, the abductions, the killing of infants with swords, the bathing in blood rituals, all this was really to insure that India retained its secular character you see.
Cheers for a bloodthirsty Secular India!
JAI HIND!
Drink the last dregs from this poisoned chalice of truth. Drink it, till you choke on it!
THE OTHER FACE OF INDIA CONT`D
Incidently, the fact that you claim to be South Indian arguably makes for an equally justifiable
case for the BJPs foot soldiers, the RSS, VHP and Shiv Sena for treating you as a `ghaddar/traitor`,
to Hinduism and its larger culture, for being a convert (even if your family converted many centuries ago). I don`t think their ideology will spare you, even if you `claim no mughal descent,` and plead this point with them earnestly when they come to your doorstep (again, not your doorstep per se) When they come, be sure to take pictures. I wouldn`t want history NOT to be recorded. And be sure and write about it, I also want to read about it, in detail. Who came, how, how many etc, what happened, who got stabbed, who got raped, precisely by how many, how you (not you in particular but the community in general) fought back, what the casualties were. I hope T.V cameras are there to record the event, perhaps CNN can carry live coverage of the rampaging Hindu mobs of Secular India. We`ll see if we can differentiate them from the rampaging communal mobs of non-secular India. I`ll look for subtle differences, manner of death inflicted and so on, to see if i can tell the difference. You (again not you per se in particular) can as the resident expert point out the subtle variations of death inflicted. Like see this particular muslim (as you/others point to the corpse) he was killed by a member of the RSS, see they left their special mark on the body, this other one, she was raped by Shiv Sainaiks, see they left their special mark here then they cut her throat, but slowly, so she would suffer. We have learned to be able to tell the difference, so many bodies examined and so forth you see, (the Indian muslim gives a smile to the reporter, filled with pride as he narrates his skill at picking out forensic evidence from headless corpses). The VHP, they have their own unique style, see, here is video footage, they took the muslims to the temple first, to reconvert them. Then they said they didn`t believe us as we prostrated ourselves before Kali ma. So they shot us. I escaped with 2 bullets in my chest, see here. That is how i survived to describe in detail all these events so that the U.N Commission on Genocide can take action. Unfortunately as we know, Hindu Revivalist India, er I mean Secular India (to reporter: could u edit out that part please, i don`t wanna get into any more trouble for saying that), is nuclear armed, so i don`t really hope for justice, or NATO bombs. We live, that is G-Ds mercy. Praise be to him. The government ma send us cheque to cover our losses. Govt is so kind. What can we expect after oppressing them for 500 odd years, if they still have a slight inferiority complex you know. Understandable, completely. India is still a secular democracy. Praise be to its SECULARITY! Hail Kali Ma! Bal Thackray Jindabad! Hail the Bombay riots of 1992-93, they are greatly exaggerated anyhow, all a misunderstanding you see. As for 1947, well the Sikhs are really not to be blamed at all, trains were not running on schedule, so Sardar-jees got a bit miffed, the muslims were responsible for the delays you see. Sardar-Jees, now these fellas they were so helpful, little helpers of godot, sending people to the hereafter on time and all. Really a good turn they did. The rapes, the abductions, the killing of infants with swords, the bathing in blood rituals, all this was really to insure that India retained its secular character you see.
Cheers for a bloodthirsty Secular India!
JAI HIND!
Drink the last dregs from this poisoned chalice of truth. Drink it, till you choke on it!
#197 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Iconoclast and all other Indians:
THE OTHER FACE OF INDIA CONT`D
Incidently, the fact that you claim to be South Indian arguably makes for an equally justifiable
case for the BJPs foot soldiers, the RSS, VHP and Shiv Sena for treating you as a `ghaddar/traitor`,
to Hinduism and its larger culture, for being a convert (even if your family converted many centuries ago). I don`t think their ideology will spare you, even if you `claim no mughal descent,` and plead this point with them arnestly when they come to your doorstep (again, not your doorstep per se) When they come, be sure to take pictures. I wouldn`t want history NOT to be recorded. And be sure and write about it, I also want to read about it, in detail. Who came, how, how many etc, what happened, who got stabbed,who got raped, precisely by how many, how you (not you in particular but the community in general) fought back, what the casualties were. I hope T.V cameras are there to record the event, perhaps CNN can carry live coverage of the rampaging Hindu mobs of Secular India. We`ll see if we can differentiate them from the rampaging communal mobs of non-secular India. I`ll look for subtle differences, manner of death inflicted and so on, to see if i can tell the difference. You (again not you per se in particular) can as the resident expert point out the subtle variations of death inflicted. Like see this particular muslim (as you/others point to the corpse) he was killed by a member of the RSS, see they left their special mark on the body, this other one, she was raped by Shiv Sainaiks, see they left their special mark here then they cut her throat, but slowly, so she would suffer. We have learned to be able to tell the difference, so many bodies examined and so forth you see, (the Indian muslim gives a smile to the reporter, filled with pride as he narrates his skill at picking out forensic evidence from headless corpses). The VHP, see, here is video footage, they took the muslims to the temple first, to reconvert them. Then they said they didn`t believe us as we prostrated ourselves before Kali ma. So they shot us. I escaped with 2 bullets in my chest, see here. That is how i survived to describe in detail all these events so that the U.N Commission on Genocide can take action. Unfortunately as we know, Hindu Revivalist India is nuclear armed, so i don`t really hope for justice, or NATO bombs. We live, that is G-Ds mercy. Praise be to him. India is still a secular democracy. Praise be to its SECULARITY! Hail Kali Ma! Hail Bal Thackray! Hail the Bombay riots of 1992-93, they are greatly exaggerated anyhow, all a misunderstanding you see. As for 1947, well the Sikhs are really not to be blamed at all, trains were not running on schedule, so Sardar-jees got a bit miffed, the muslims were responsible for the delays you see. Sardar-Jees, now these fellas they were so helpful, little helpers of godot, sending people to the hereafter on time and all. Really a good turn they did. The rapes, the abductions, the killing of infants with swords, the bathing in blood rituals, all this was really to insure that India retained its secular character you see.
Cheers for a bloodthirsty Secular India!
JAI HIND!
THE OTHER FACE OF INDIA CONT`D
Incidently, the fact that you claim to be South Indian arguably makes for an equally justifiable
case for the BJPs foot soldiers, the RSS, VHP and Shiv Sena for treating you as a `ghaddar/traitor`,
to Hinduism and its larger culture, for being a convert (even if your family converted many centuries ago). I don`t think their ideology will spare you, even if you `claim no mughal descent,` and plead this point with them arnestly when they come to your doorstep (again, not your doorstep per se) When they come, be sure to take pictures. I wouldn`t want history NOT to be recorded. And be sure and write about it, I also want to read about it, in detail. Who came, how, how many etc, what happened, who got stabbed,who got raped, precisely by how many, how you (not you in particular but the community in general) fought back, what the casualties were. I hope T.V cameras are there to record the event, perhaps CNN can carry live coverage of the rampaging Hindu mobs of Secular India. We`ll see if we can differentiate them from the rampaging communal mobs of non-secular India. I`ll look for subtle differences, manner of death inflicted and so on, to see if i can tell the difference. You (again not you per se in particular) can as the resident expert point out the subtle variations of death inflicted. Like see this particular muslim (as you/others point to the corpse) he was killed by a member of the RSS, see they left their special mark on the body, this other one, she was raped by Shiv Sainaiks, see they left their special mark here then they cut her throat, but slowly, so she would suffer. We have learned to be able to tell the difference, so many bodies examined and so forth you see, (the Indian muslim gives a smile to the reporter, filled with pride as he narrates his skill at picking out forensic evidence from headless corpses). The VHP, see, here is video footage, they took the muslims to the temple first, to reconvert them. Then they said they didn`t believe us as we prostrated ourselves before Kali ma. So they shot us. I escaped with 2 bullets in my chest, see here. That is how i survived to describe in detail all these events so that the U.N Commission on Genocide can take action. Unfortunately as we know, Hindu Revivalist India is nuclear armed, so i don`t really hope for justice, or NATO bombs. We live, that is G-Ds mercy. Praise be to him. India is still a secular democracy. Praise be to its SECULARITY! Hail Kali Ma! Hail Bal Thackray! Hail the Bombay riots of 1992-93, they are greatly exaggerated anyhow, all a misunderstanding you see. As for 1947, well the Sikhs are really not to be blamed at all, trains were not running on schedule, so Sardar-jees got a bit miffed, the muslims were responsible for the delays you see. Sardar-Jees, now these fellas they were so helpful, little helpers of godot, sending people to the hereafter on time and all. Really a good turn they did. The rapes, the abductions, the killing of infants with swords, the bathing in blood rituals, all this was really to insure that India retained its secular character you see.
Cheers for a bloodthirsty Secular India!
JAI HIND!
#196 Posted by satyavadi on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
To all..
The epithets that I have used in my previous psoting for OMAR are sure to elicit a very profane
and vitriolic attack from him OMAR. But I have read enough of his blatantly biased, prejudiced and arrogant postings about everyone and everything that he doesnt agree with, to care about it.
Or maybe for a change OMAR may say `` I dont care for a stupid blah blah ......less intelligent (!)
.......Indian like you and what you say ``.
Either way I dont care..
Thanks
Satyavadi
The epithets that I have used in my previous psoting for OMAR are sure to elicit a very profane
and vitriolic attack from him OMAR. But I have read enough of his blatantly biased, prejudiced and arrogant postings about everyone and everything that he doesnt agree with, to care about it.
Or maybe for a change OMAR may say `` I dont care for a stupid blah blah ......less intelligent (!)
.......Indian like you and what you say ``.
Either way I dont care..
Thanks
Satyavadi
#195 Posted by satyavadi on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
To everyone...and TO ICONOCLAST and JAWAHARA
I havent seen, heard of or met a more biased, arrogant, bigoted and close minded person as OMAR1974. I hope his ALLAH pardons him for way he behaves..but I doubt because I have heard Allah is very strict and doesnt pardon anything...but I wish him best luck.
Iconoclast, bravo... We need more people like you from India.. specially Muslims speaking thr truth about themselves and India as it is, so that the bigoted Pakis dont take you for granted and indulge in all kind of slander aginst India on your behalf.
I know of another Indian Jawahara, who is also a Muslim, who posts her views on chowk. Jawahara, please come forward to tell these people Pakis how you feel about being an Indian and specially being a Muslim Indian.
Thanks a lot people.
Satyavadi
I havent seen, heard of or met a more biased, arrogant, bigoted and close minded person as OMAR1974. I hope his ALLAH pardons him for way he behaves..but I doubt because I have heard Allah is very strict and doesnt pardon anything...but I wish him best luck.
Iconoclast, bravo... We need more people like you from India.. specially Muslims speaking thr truth about themselves and India as it is, so that the bigoted Pakis dont take you for granted and indulge in all kind of slander aginst India on your behalf.
I know of another Indian Jawahara, who is also a Muslim, who posts her views on chowk. Jawahara, please come forward to tell these people Pakis how you feel about being an Indian and specially being a Muslim Indian.
Thanks a lot people.
Satyavadi
#194 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
KhalidSA : when I spoke of a vote, I meant a POLL.
not individual opinions. I`m talking numbers on the front page. Hopefully people would be honest and not vote more than once. Of course those who would vote more than once, would only prove their lack of honor regardless of their nationality.
As for the Geneva convention, i already stated, here i go again repeating something (Casting pearls ..... ..... tsk tsk) that needs to sink in but apparently didn`t. Those who wore uniforms of the Pakistan Army, EPR etc., and MUTINED (there is no other way to describe their `heroics` including Major Zia Ur Rehman`s cold blooded murders and atrocities) are not covered under the convention. They were simple ghaddars. They swore an oath to defend and serve (UNITED)PAKISTAN. They REVOLTED. They broke their oath. Whether they or you felt/feel morally justified is irrelevant. Military justice was done. The Pakistan army is not accountable for their deaths, as these people are not covered as `ENEMY PRISONERS OF WAR,` which is the purpose of the Geneva conventions. PAKISTAN WAS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE IN A STATE OF WAR at the time according to international law. If Bengalis serving in the U.S army today did what they did in 1971 in East Pakistan, there are generals in the U.S who would not blink an eye at having them shot. Neither do i nor any of my countrymen! And incidently, these people were trying to escape, and many of them were guilty of passing information to an enemy country, India (even though there was peace at the time, these acts = Treason). Spies are taken before a firing squad and shot. That is justice. Traitors are dealt with similarly. These were traitors and murderous rebels. They got what they deserved, and virtually the entire nation of Pakistan stands behind me when I say this.
You may not like it, but that is how it stands. As for my role in this, don`t be DAFT, i`m not the one who wrote the book and got it published for all and sundry to read. Z.A Khan knew exactly what he was doing in writing it. He has ruffled a lot of feathers in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh etc. That was the point, to tell it, `the way it was.` The TRUTH needs to be told, and he has pulled no punches in describing the events he witnessed and his part in them. As for the whole `war crime issue,` that too may indeed be a healthy thing to come out. People should stop running from the unpleasant past and examine it before all the first person accounts are no longer available to us. Let me remind you also that the average life expectancy in the Subcontinent is a good 20 years less than in N.America. Ferozk pointed out the dilemma.
As for the key participants roles in this, i have always examined them by putting myself in their shoes to understand what happened, and why it happened. It is the only way to really understand the characters of the cast of characters of the participants in this tragedy, removed from us now by time and space. Rather than demonizing them, one can gain a clearer understanding of the roles they played and how they interacted by looking at things from each individual`s point of view. In this debate i have not had to play out a number of role from their own perspective, because they were always plenty of others willing to represent them. I understand perfectly every facet of their characters. It what makes history come alive. What really motivated Pakistan army soldiers on March 25th/26th to do what they did? Now the only way you can really understand it to put yourself in their shoes and look at things from an individual point of view. What were the events preceding March 25th. Now Bengali nationalists will of course like Jamal Hasan has claimed, say that March 7-26 etc were the `beginnings` of Bengali nationalism that blossomed into the creation of Bangladesh. Then will trace the `colonial relationship`, the `language dispute`, and other factors and formulate an undifferentiated march towards the `inevitablity` of Dec 16th 1971. This is from the point of view of someone looking back at events and the course of history saying it was all `inevitable.` I assure you that if the outcome was `inevitable,` the Pakistan army would have packed its bags and departed with Yahya on March 24 or whenever he left. So the question of `traitor` or `liberator,` depends on at least 2 factors ; A) The Outcome. Winners write history. B) Perspective. WE LIVE HISTORY. HISTORY MUST BLEED life before it can be understood by people who have not lived it, like myself in this case. It must come alive. The best historians understand that.
But if you read Z.A Khan`s account, and numerous other accounts about Mujib`s dealings even prior to March 25th, and the aftermath of the restoration of order in Pakistan by the Pakistan army, it was always possible for East Pakistan to settle for ‘autonomy’, life began to return to normal slowly. Mujib was willing to negotiate. The outcome was NEVER as clear cut as you may see it from the distance in space and time, and thus view one side as evil/wrong, the other as good/right. The world did not end because no Bangladesh came into existence then (March 26th or prior to Dec 16th). If the Indians had not intervened, and been helping the Mukti Bahini, your nationality today might well be Pakistani, and Mujib might well be called a `ghaddar` by you today! Why? Guess whose version of history you`d be reading in school. Of Course it is possible that Kissinger would have succeeded in his diplomacy, and East Pakistan could have become Bangladesh peacefully w/o Indian intervention.
Like i said, it all depends on what perspective of history you take. There is probably no `right` answer. It all depends on personal convictions, and that involves subjectivism, not objectivism, although as far as the Geneva conventions are concerned, mine is in fact the objective view rather than a view colored by emotional bias. (which I confess, being only human, that I am prone to just as much as anyone else.)
THERE IS NOTHING INEVITABLE ABOUT HISTORY.
regards,
Omar Mirza
not individual opinions. I`m talking numbers on the front page. Hopefully people would be honest and not vote more than once. Of course those who would vote more than once, would only prove their lack of honor regardless of their nationality.
As for the Geneva convention, i already stated, here i go again repeating something (Casting pearls ..... ..... tsk tsk) that needs to sink in but apparently didn`t. Those who wore uniforms of the Pakistan Army, EPR etc., and MUTINED (there is no other way to describe their `heroics` including Major Zia Ur Rehman`s cold blooded murders and atrocities) are not covered under the convention. They were simple ghaddars. They swore an oath to defend and serve (UNITED)PAKISTAN. They REVOLTED. They broke their oath. Whether they or you felt/feel morally justified is irrelevant. Military justice was done. The Pakistan army is not accountable for their deaths, as these people are not covered as `ENEMY PRISONERS OF WAR,` which is the purpose of the Geneva conventions. PAKISTAN WAS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE IN A STATE OF WAR at the time according to international law. If Bengalis serving in the U.S army today did what they did in 1971 in East Pakistan, there are generals in the U.S who would not blink an eye at having them shot. Neither do i nor any of my countrymen! And incidently, these people were trying to escape, and many of them were guilty of passing information to an enemy country, India (even though there was peace at the time, these acts = Treason). Spies are taken before a firing squad and shot. That is justice. Traitors are dealt with similarly. These were traitors and murderous rebels. They got what they deserved, and virtually the entire nation of Pakistan stands behind me when I say this.
You may not like it, but that is how it stands. As for my role in this, don`t be DAFT, i`m not the one who wrote the book and got it published for all and sundry to read. Z.A Khan knew exactly what he was doing in writing it. He has ruffled a lot of feathers in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh etc. That was the point, to tell it, `the way it was.` The TRUTH needs to be told, and he has pulled no punches in describing the events he witnessed and his part in them. As for the whole `war crime issue,` that too may indeed be a healthy thing to come out. People should stop running from the unpleasant past and examine it before all the first person accounts are no longer available to us. Let me remind you also that the average life expectancy in the Subcontinent is a good 20 years less than in N.America. Ferozk pointed out the dilemma.
As for the key participants roles in this, i have always examined them by putting myself in their shoes to understand what happened, and why it happened. It is the only way to really understand the characters of the cast of characters of the participants in this tragedy, removed from us now by time and space. Rather than demonizing them, one can gain a clearer understanding of the roles they played and how they interacted by looking at things from each individual`s point of view. In this debate i have not had to play out a number of role from their own perspective, because they were always plenty of others willing to represent them. I understand perfectly every facet of their characters. It what makes history come alive. What really motivated Pakistan army soldiers on March 25th/26th to do what they did? Now the only way you can really understand it to put yourself in their shoes and look at things from an individual point of view. What were the events preceding March 25th. Now Bengali nationalists will of course like Jamal Hasan has claimed, say that March 7-26 etc were the `beginnings` of Bengali nationalism that blossomed into the creation of Bangladesh. Then will trace the `colonial relationship`, the `language dispute`, and other factors and formulate an undifferentiated march towards the `inevitablity` of Dec 16th 1971. This is from the point of view of someone looking back at events and the course of history saying it was all `inevitable.` I assure you that if the outcome was `inevitable,` the Pakistan army would have packed its bags and departed with Yahya on March 24 or whenever he left. So the question of `traitor` or `liberator,` depends on at least 2 factors ; A) The Outcome. Winners write history. B) Perspective. WE LIVE HISTORY. HISTORY MUST BLEED life before it can be understood by people who have not lived it, like myself in this case. It must come alive. The best historians understand that.
But if you read Z.A Khan`s account, and numerous other accounts about Mujib`s dealings even prior to March 25th, and the aftermath of the restoration of order in Pakistan by the Pakistan army, it was always possible for East Pakistan to settle for ‘autonomy’, life began to return to normal slowly. Mujib was willing to negotiate. The outcome was NEVER as clear cut as you may see it from the distance in space and time, and thus view one side as evil/wrong, the other as good/right. The world did not end because no Bangladesh came into existence then (March 26th or prior to Dec 16th). If the Indians had not intervened, and been helping the Mukti Bahini, your nationality today might well be Pakistani, and Mujib might well be called a `ghaddar` by you today! Why? Guess whose version of history you`d be reading in school. Of Course it is possible that Kissinger would have succeeded in his diplomacy, and East Pakistan could have become Bangladesh peacefully w/o Indian intervention.
Like i said, it all depends on what perspective of history you take. There is probably no `right` answer. It all depends on personal convictions, and that involves subjectivism, not objectivism, although as far as the Geneva conventions are concerned, mine is in fact the objective view rather than a view colored by emotional bias. (which I confess, being only human, that I am prone to just as much as anyone else.)
THERE IS NOTHING INEVITABLE ABOUT HISTORY.
regards,
Omar Mirza
#193 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
KhalidSA : when I spoke of a vote, I meant a POLL.
not individual opinions. I`m talking numbers on the front page. Hopefully people would be honest and not vote more than once. Of course those who would vote more than once, would only prove their lack of honor regardless of their nationality.
As for the Geneva convention, i already stated, here i go again repeating something (Casting pearls ..... ..... tsk tsk) that needs to sink in but apparently didn`t. Those who wore uniforms of the Pakistan Army, EPR etc., and MUTINED (there is no other way to discribe their `heroics` including Major Zia Ur Rehman`s cold blooded murders and atrocities) are not covered under the convention. They were simple ghaddars. They swore an oath to defend and serve (UNITED)PAKISTAN. They REVOLTED. They broke their oath. Whether they or you felt/feel morally justified is irrelevant. Miltary justice was done. The Pakistan army is not accountable for their deaths, as these people are not covered as `ENEMY PRISONERS OF WAR,` which is the purpose of the Geneva conventions. PAKISTAN WAS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE IN A STATE OF WAR at the time according to international law. If Bengalis serving in the U.S army today did what they did in 1971 in East Pakistan, there are generals in the U.S who would not blink an eye at having them shot. Neither do i nor any of my countrymen! And incidently, these people were trying to escape, and many of them were guilty of passing information to an enemy country, India (even though there was peace at the time, these acts = Treason). Spies are taken before a firing squad and shot. That is justice. Traitors are dealt with similarly. These were traitors and murderous rebels. They got what they deserved, and virtually the entire nation of Pakistan stands behind me when I say this.
You may not like it, but that is how it stands. As for my role in this, don`t be DAFT, i`m not the one who wrote the book and got it published for all and sundry to read. Z.A Khan knew exactly what he was doing in writing it. He has ruffled a lot of feathers in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh etc. That was the point, to tell it, `the way it was.` The TRUTH needs to be told, and he has pulled no punches in describing the events he witnessed and his part in them. As for the whole `war crime issue,` that too may indeed be a healthy thing to come out. People should stop running from the unpleasant past and examine it before all the first person accounts are no longer available to us. Let me remind you also that the average life expectancy in the Subcontinent is a good 20 years less than in N.America. Ferozk pointed out the deilemma.
As for the key participants roles in this, i have always examined them by putting myself in their shoes to understand what happened, and why it happened. It is the only way to really understand the characters of the cast of characters of the participents in this tragedy, removed from us now by time and space. Rather than demonizing them, one can gain a clearer understanding of the roles they played and how they interacted by looking at things from each individual`s point of view. In this debate i have not had to play out a number of role from their own perspective, because they were always plenty of others willing to represent them. I understand perfectly every facet of their characters. It what makes history come alive. What really motivated Pkaistan army soldiers on March 25th/26th to do what they did? Now the only way you can really understand it to put yourself in their shoes and look at things from an individual point of view. What were the events preceeding March 25th. Now Bengali nationalists will of course like Jamal Hasan has claimed say that March 7-26 etc were the `beginnings` of Bengali nationalism that blossomed into the creation of Bangladesh. This is from the point of view of someone looking back at events and the course of history saying it was all `inevitable.` I assure you that if the outcome was `inevitable,` the Pakistan army would have packed its bags and departed with Yahya on March 24 or whenever he left. So the question of `traitor` or `liberator,`
depends on at least 2 factors ; A) The Outcome. Winners write history. B) Perspective.
But if you read Z.A Khan`s account, and numerous others about Mujib`s dealings even prior to March 25th, and the aftermath of the restoration of order in Pakistan by the Pakistan army, life began to return to normal slowly. The world did not end because no Bangladesh came into existence then. If the Indians had not intervened, and been helping the Mukti Bahini, your nationality today might well be Pakistani, and Mujib might well be called a `ghaddar` by you today! Why? Guess whose version of history you`d be reading in school. Of Course it is possible that Kissinger would have succeeded in his diplomacy, and East Pakistan could have become Bangladesh peacefully w/o Indian intervention.
Like i said, it all depends on what perspective of history you take. There is probably no `right` answer. It depends on personal convictions, and that involves subjectivism, not objectivism, although as far as the Geneva conventions are concerned, mine is in fact the objective view rather than a view colored by emotional bias.
(which I confess, being only human, that I am prone to just as much as anyone else)
regards,
not individual opinions. I`m talking numbers on the front page. Hopefully people would be honest and not vote more than once. Of course those who would vote more than once, would only prove their lack of honor regardless of their nationality.
As for the Geneva convention, i already stated, here i go again repeating something (Casting pearls ..... ..... tsk tsk) that needs to sink in but apparently didn`t. Those who wore uniforms of the Pakistan Army, EPR etc., and MUTINED (there is no other way to discribe their `heroics` including Major Zia Ur Rehman`s cold blooded murders and atrocities) are not covered under the convention. They were simple ghaddars. They swore an oath to defend and serve (UNITED)PAKISTAN. They REVOLTED. They broke their oath. Whether they or you felt/feel morally justified is irrelevant. Miltary justice was done. The Pakistan army is not accountable for their deaths, as these people are not covered as `ENEMY PRISONERS OF WAR,` which is the purpose of the Geneva conventions. PAKISTAN WAS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE IN A STATE OF WAR at the time according to international law. If Bengalis serving in the U.S army today did what they did in 1971 in East Pakistan, there are generals in the U.S who would not blink an eye at having them shot. Neither do i nor any of my countrymen! And incidently, these people were trying to escape, and many of them were guilty of passing information to an enemy country, India (even though there was peace at the time, these acts = Treason). Spies are taken before a firing squad and shot. That is justice. Traitors are dealt with similarly. These were traitors and murderous rebels. They got what they deserved, and virtually the entire nation of Pakistan stands behind me when I say this.
You may not like it, but that is how it stands. As for my role in this, don`t be DAFT, i`m not the one who wrote the book and got it published for all and sundry to read. Z.A Khan knew exactly what he was doing in writing it. He has ruffled a lot of feathers in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh etc. That was the point, to tell it, `the way it was.` The TRUTH needs to be told, and he has pulled no punches in describing the events he witnessed and his part in them. As for the whole `war crime issue,` that too may indeed be a healthy thing to come out. People should stop running from the unpleasant past and examine it before all the first person accounts are no longer available to us. Let me remind you also that the average life expectancy in the Subcontinent is a good 20 years less than in N.America. Ferozk pointed out the deilemma.
As for the key participants roles in this, i have always examined them by putting myself in their shoes to understand what happened, and why it happened. It is the only way to really understand the characters of the cast of characters of the participents in this tragedy, removed from us now by time and space. Rather than demonizing them, one can gain a clearer understanding of the roles they played and how they interacted by looking at things from each individual`s point of view. In this debate i have not had to play out a number of role from their own perspective, because they were always plenty of others willing to represent them. I understand perfectly every facet of their characters. It what makes history come alive. What really motivated Pkaistan army soldiers on March 25th/26th to do what they did? Now the only way you can really understand it to put yourself in their shoes and look at things from an individual point of view. What were the events preceeding March 25th. Now Bengali nationalists will of course like Jamal Hasan has claimed say that March 7-26 etc were the `beginnings` of Bengali nationalism that blossomed into the creation of Bangladesh. This is from the point of view of someone looking back at events and the course of history saying it was all `inevitable.` I assure you that if the outcome was `inevitable,` the Pakistan army would have packed its bags and departed with Yahya on March 24 or whenever he left. So the question of `traitor` or `liberator,`
depends on at least 2 factors ; A) The Outcome. Winners write history. B) Perspective.
But if you read Z.A Khan`s account, and numerous others about Mujib`s dealings even prior to March 25th, and the aftermath of the restoration of order in Pakistan by the Pakistan army, life began to return to normal slowly. The world did not end because no Bangladesh came into existence then. If the Indians had not intervened, and been helping the Mukti Bahini, your nationality today might well be Pakistani, and Mujib might well be called a `ghaddar` by you today! Why? Guess whose version of history you`d be reading in school. Of Course it is possible that Kissinger would have succeeded in his diplomacy, and East Pakistan could have become Bangladesh peacefully w/o Indian intervention.
Like i said, it all depends on what perspective of history you take. There is probably no `right` answer. It depends on personal convictions, and that involves subjectivism, not objectivism, although as far as the Geneva conventions are concerned, mine is in fact the objective view rather than a view colored by emotional bias.
(which I confess, being only human, that I am prone to just as much as anyone else)
regards,
#192 Posted by khokan on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
OMAR1974`s question: SHOULD PAKISTANI OFFICERS FACE WAR CRIME TRIALS FOR...?
The answer will be an unequivocal ``yes`` from anyone who wishes Pakistan well. Pakistan has been ill-served by military officers whose belief in the divine right of ``martial races`` to lord over the country has brough grief and even genocide to Pakistanis of ``subject races.``
Bengalis are no longer in Pakistan to be kicked around any more as the preferred subject race. So, now, it is the turn of the Sindhis and the Balochs, the Shias and the Ahmadiyyas to suffer the onslaught of the ruling elite.
Forcing the war criminals of 1971 to pay for their crimes is the only salvation for the common citiens of Pakistan. Men like Brigadier Z.A.Khan and their scions have a vested interest to stand in the way of such an accounting in a court of law. War crime trials will be opposed by the top brass for its own benefit and not for that of the country. Conversely, war crime trials will force the ruling elite to back off and to give democracy a chance to survive and take off. And, that, ultimately is the only way that Pakistan can survive as a united country.
The answer will be an unequivocal ``yes`` from anyone who wishes Pakistan well. Pakistan has been ill-served by military officers whose belief in the divine right of ``martial races`` to lord over the country has brough grief and even genocide to Pakistanis of ``subject races.``
Bengalis are no longer in Pakistan to be kicked around any more as the preferred subject race. So, now, it is the turn of the Sindhis and the Balochs, the Shias and the Ahmadiyyas to suffer the onslaught of the ruling elite.
Forcing the war criminals of 1971 to pay for their crimes is the only salvation for the common citiens of Pakistan. Men like Brigadier Z.A.Khan and their scions have a vested interest to stand in the way of such an accounting in a court of law. War crime trials will be opposed by the top brass for its own benefit and not for that of the country. Conversely, war crime trials will force the ruling elite to back off and to give democracy a chance to survive and take off. And, that, ultimately is the only way that Pakistan can survive as a united country.
#191 Posted by khokan on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Reply to OMAR1974 in post # 185
OMAR MIRZA:Not being satisfied with the effects of the treason of 1971, certain `elements` connive to continue to dsiprove the viability of the 2 nation theory to this day! I`m begining to now gain a new insight into why the Pakistan army did what it is alleged to have done on March 25 on Dhaka University campus. But Ideas should be countered by Ideas. Jamal`s criticism of the use of Islam as a Unifying force for Pakistan is valid, but what are the other realistic alternatives? He doesn`t say. So, we should reconcile ourselves to the break up of Pakistan! Pernicious is the word.
RESPONSE: It is Mr. Omar Mirza who seems to be reconciled to the break-up of Pakistan. He seems to firmly believe that Pakistan can be held together only through intimidation of the ordinary citizens. He also seems to firmly believe that the only raison d`etre for holding Pakistan together is to preserve the power and privileges of its ruling elite in particular and of the military officers in general. He finds it quite right to go to any extent, including genocide, to preserve the ruling elite`s grip on power and on its ill-gotten wealth. Mr. Mirza is quite at ease with 1971 genocide. And, now he says that the keepers of Pakistan`s unity should be willing to even nuke the Balochs and Sindhis if that`s what it takes to preserve the vested interests of the ruling cabal.
If one does not have any respect for the rule of law, he cannot possibly have received a good legal education. Judging by that, it is clear that Mr. Omar Mirza has received legal training that he should not be proud of. Unless he changes for the better, he`ll never manage to clear the Bar Exam. And even if he somehow manages to do so, he will soon find himself disbarred for some dishonorable act or the other.
Yes, Pakistan can be one country. Democracy is the key to its survival as a united nation. It is the ruling elite`s disdain for democracy and its belief in racist ideologies that led to the 1971 break-up.
Mr. Jamal Hasan has been very perspicacious in pointing out that Pakistan risks breaking up into many pieces unless the ruling elite chooses to learn from its mistakes in 1971.But if Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan and Mr. Omar Mirza epitomize the wise women and men of today`s Pakistan, then only God can save the people. Men like Brigadier Z.A.Khan hasn`t been content with breaking up the country in 1971. They seem to have sowed the seeds of further destruction by passing on their greedy, selfish and racist attitudes on to their daughters and nephews. Mr. Omar Mirza, for all his purported legal training, would solve today`s problems by nuking the Sindhis and Balochs much as his uncle had sought to solve the 1971 problem with unequalled savagery.
Yes, Pakistan can remain united. But that will be in spite of the Omar Mirzas and the Muneezae Khans of the country. Europe is steadily getting united. It is democracy, rather than Christianity, that is prodding Europe in the right direction. If Pakistan survives as a united nation, it will owe far more to democracy than to Islam which is yet to forge the two dozen Arab countries into a single nation.
OMAR MIRZA:Not being satisfied with the effects of the treason of 1971, certain `elements` connive to continue to dsiprove the viability of the 2 nation theory to this day! I`m begining to now gain a new insight into why the Pakistan army did what it is alleged to have done on March 25 on Dhaka University campus. But Ideas should be countered by Ideas. Jamal`s criticism of the use of Islam as a Unifying force for Pakistan is valid, but what are the other realistic alternatives? He doesn`t say. So, we should reconcile ourselves to the break up of Pakistan! Pernicious is the word.
RESPONSE: It is Mr. Omar Mirza who seems to be reconciled to the break-up of Pakistan. He seems to firmly believe that Pakistan can be held together only through intimidation of the ordinary citizens. He also seems to firmly believe that the only raison d`etre for holding Pakistan together is to preserve the power and privileges of its ruling elite in particular and of the military officers in general. He finds it quite right to go to any extent, including genocide, to preserve the ruling elite`s grip on power and on its ill-gotten wealth. Mr. Mirza is quite at ease with 1971 genocide. And, now he says that the keepers of Pakistan`s unity should be willing to even nuke the Balochs and Sindhis if that`s what it takes to preserve the vested interests of the ruling cabal.
If one does not have any respect for the rule of law, he cannot possibly have received a good legal education. Judging by that, it is clear that Mr. Omar Mirza has received legal training that he should not be proud of. Unless he changes for the better, he`ll never manage to clear the Bar Exam. And even if he somehow manages to do so, he will soon find himself disbarred for some dishonorable act or the other.
Yes, Pakistan can be one country. Democracy is the key to its survival as a united nation. It is the ruling elite`s disdain for democracy and its belief in racist ideologies that led to the 1971 break-up.
Mr. Jamal Hasan has been very perspicacious in pointing out that Pakistan risks breaking up into many pieces unless the ruling elite chooses to learn from its mistakes in 1971.But if Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan and Mr. Omar Mirza epitomize the wise women and men of today`s Pakistan, then only God can save the people. Men like Brigadier Z.A.Khan hasn`t been content with breaking up the country in 1971. They seem to have sowed the seeds of further destruction by passing on their greedy, selfish and racist attitudes on to their daughters and nephews. Mr. Omar Mirza, for all his purported legal training, would solve today`s problems by nuking the Sindhis and Balochs much as his uncle had sought to solve the 1971 problem with unequalled savagery.
Yes, Pakistan can remain united. But that will be in spite of the Omar Mirzas and the Muneezae Khans of the country. Europe is steadily getting united. It is democracy, rather than Christianity, that is prodding Europe in the right direction. If Pakistan survives as a united nation, it will owe far more to democracy than to Islam which is yet to forge the two dozen Arab countries into a single nation.
#190 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Iconoclast:
The Scenario I have drawn of the RSS/VHP is not too far from their past treatment of muslims. Nor should the sikhs be discounted. None of this (my somewhat lurid description) was meant PERSONALLY to apply to you (I don`t know who you are and don`t really care), but rather to serve as a graphic and vivid illustration of the future of India`s muslims in India, and its not too farfetched. Believe me, the descriptions i set forth are tame compared to the reality of communal violence which i am well aware of. I know personally what people have suffered. And what can very likely happen in India in the not so distant future. As for Kashmir, frankly India has no claim to assume moral superiority, and while this line continues i shall continue to expose it. Pakistan is no Shangrila granted mainly because the Quaid-e-Azam M.A Jinnah`s ideals were betrayed, I have never purported it to be that. But, nor will I stand idly by while others propose its dismemberment or support the commission of what i personally consider to be treason.
Others, misc comments:
I am not unaware of the Bengali and Indian scholarship and accounts of March 25/26th etc, or the views ascribed to Yahya Khan etc, and theories of colonialism. In fact I am well aware of all views, and a good deal of historical writing. I don`t dismiss any of it out of hand. But I don`t uncritically embrace all of it either. This however does not mean that I am guilty of `wilful blindness.`
As for first person type accounts I am always willing to listen. Mr.`Zunaid`s` account reads like a story from hell, but, i must point out that i never disputed that what he described did not happen out of hand. However, I don`t think there have even been any allegations that Z.A Khan was involved in this action. I might also point out that by the time of this action Bengali personnel in Pakistani Armed forces were virtually persona non grata, and therefore going after the EPR and Police who were supporters of looting, lawlessness etc, was entirely justifiable. Going after unarmed civilians is however a different matter. How to sort out the 2? The questiion of course that should however also be kept in mind is whether those people were prima facie guilty of treason which by some of their actions can be argued to be the case. I think I stated earlier that Yahya was a bit of a simpleton and made some astute comments about his character. He was not capable of dealing with a complex political situation, he only knew the language of war. In trying to save the country he wound up destroying it. But he is not solely to blame either. He was no Iago. Much more like Othello.
FINALLY:
I have always believed that if a person has something to say, he should never be afraid to come out and say it bluntly, no matter how many people are offfended, IF he/she believes in the cause he is fighting for is just and believes in it to be true. I don`t care to hide behind the anonymity of a username because my views are my own. I have never backed off from personal confrontations in my life. Nor do I live life worrying about others being offended by what i believe is true. Nor in this particular case am i in the least motivated by the $ sign as someone puts it. I am motivated solely by my own conception of what constitutes honor. As to that i hold very definite views. Better to live 1 day the life of a lion, than a thousand years the life of a jackal. As i stated earlier, there can be no price put on that.
Z.A Khan is a very forthright person. He tells it like it was, without pulling any punches about who is offended by the truth of the facts he relates or not. His character is of the highest
possible character expected of an honorable professional soldier. He is not some Pakistani version of Arkan.
As for my being one of the only defenders of Z.A Khan, thats laughable, he needs no defenders.
I alone have always been sufficient to take on more than a crowed roomful in life. Those who know me personally can testify to that determination. I have never worried about whether i was in the `minority`, even a minority of one, as long as i believed my self to be morally right. Z.A Khan has no guilty conscience. Even today the man stands upright, there is no shame in his past and it shows clearly in his demeanor. He does not care whom the truth offends. Friend, or foe. That is the way to live life.
The Scenario I have drawn of the RSS/VHP is not too far from their past treatment of muslims. Nor should the sikhs be discounted. None of this (my somewhat lurid description) was meant PERSONALLY to apply to you (I don`t know who you are and don`t really care), but rather to serve as a graphic and vivid illustration of the future of India`s muslims in India, and its not too farfetched. Believe me, the descriptions i set forth are tame compared to the reality of communal violence which i am well aware of. I know personally what people have suffered. And what can very likely happen in India in the not so distant future. As for Kashmir, frankly India has no claim to assume moral superiority, and while this line continues i shall continue to expose it. Pakistan is no Shangrila granted mainly because the Quaid-e-Azam M.A Jinnah`s ideals were betrayed, I have never purported it to be that. But, nor will I stand idly by while others propose its dismemberment or support the commission of what i personally consider to be treason.
Others, misc comments:
I am not unaware of the Bengali and Indian scholarship and accounts of March 25/26th etc, or the views ascribed to Yahya Khan etc, and theories of colonialism. In fact I am well aware of all views, and a good deal of historical writing. I don`t dismiss any of it out of hand. But I don`t uncritically embrace all of it either. This however does not mean that I am guilty of `wilful blindness.`
As for first person type accounts I am always willing to listen. Mr.`Zunaid`s` account reads like a story from hell, but, i must point out that i never disputed that what he described did not happen out of hand. However, I don`t think there have even been any allegations that Z.A Khan was involved in this action. I might also point out that by the time of this action Bengali personnel in Pakistani Armed forces were virtually persona non grata, and therefore going after the EPR and Police who were supporters of looting, lawlessness etc, was entirely justifiable. Going after unarmed civilians is however a different matter. How to sort out the 2? The questiion of course that should however also be kept in mind is whether those people were prima facie guilty of treason which by some of their actions can be argued to be the case. I think I stated earlier that Yahya was a bit of a simpleton and made some astute comments about his character. He was not capable of dealing with a complex political situation, he only knew the language of war. In trying to save the country he wound up destroying it. But he is not solely to blame either. He was no Iago. Much more like Othello.
FINALLY:
I have always believed that if a person has something to say, he should never be afraid to come out and say it bluntly, no matter how many people are offfended, IF he/she believes in the cause he is fighting for is just and believes in it to be true. I don`t care to hide behind the anonymity of a username because my views are my own. I have never backed off from personal confrontations in my life. Nor do I live life worrying about others being offended by what i believe is true. Nor in this particular case am i in the least motivated by the $ sign as someone puts it. I am motivated solely by my own conception of what constitutes honor. As to that i hold very definite views. Better to live 1 day the life of a lion, than a thousand years the life of a jackal. As i stated earlier, there can be no price put on that.
Z.A Khan is a very forthright person. He tells it like it was, without pulling any punches about who is offended by the truth of the facts he relates or not. His character is of the highest
possible character expected of an honorable professional soldier. He is not some Pakistani version of Arkan.
As for my being one of the only defenders of Z.A Khan, thats laughable, he needs no defenders.
I alone have always been sufficient to take on more than a crowed roomful in life. Those who know me personally can testify to that determination. I have never worried about whether i was in the `minority`, even a minority of one, as long as i believed my self to be morally right. Z.A Khan has no guilty conscience. Even today the man stands upright, there is no shame in his past and it shows clearly in his demeanor. He does not care whom the truth offends. Friend, or foe. That is the way to live life.
#189 Posted by khokan on April 28, 1999 7:46:40 pm
Those who have followed the thread, could not have missed the fact that Mr. Omar Mirza (nephew of Brigadier Z.A.Khan) and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan(daughter of the infamous Brigadier) have both resorted to racist ideology and stereotyping to
justify the worst holocaust since the days of Hitler.
Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan, who considers herself a wise woman of today`s Pakistan, condiders Bengalis to be descendants of Mir Jafar, the Indian Quisling of 18th century India. She also makes it very clear that her father, the infamous
Brigadier Z.A.Khan, doesn`t think any better of the Bengalis. In her words, an apt epitaph for her father would say, ``Here lies the man who knew you can never trust a Bengali`` or something to that effect.
Mr. Omar Mirza, who is a nephew of the infamous Brigadier, fancies himself to be a legal scholar. He openly declares that if he were in the Brigadier`s shoes, he too would have done exactly the same thing in East Pakistan in 1971. In other words, for all the legal training that he has received, he is still prepared to repeat the crimes of 1971. Mr. Omar Mirza`s only regret seems to be that he did not get to personally murder any ``ghaddar`` Bengali.
The nephew and the daughter are merely mouthing the racism that is part and parcel of the officer class of the Pakistani army manned predominantly by members of the ``martial races.`` They have only contempt for ``non-martial`` races like the Bengalis and the Sindhis.
This is a clue to understanding the tragedy. I must commend Mr. Jamal Hasan`s for his excellent analysis in the article, ``Balkan Tragedy: A Re enactment of the 1971 Genocide.`` The article says it all and doesn`t need my comments to make it any more explicit or understandable. But it would do good to get an understanding of the racist prejudices among Pakistan`s ruling elite as a key to understanding the tragedy.
Theories on ``Hindu perfidy`` or ``Bengali treachery`` cannot expalin the 1971 tragedy. It is the racism, greed and ambition of Pakistan`s ruling elite that bears primary responsibility for
the failure in national integration that Harvard scholar Rounaq Jahan wrote about. And it is Pakistan`s ruling elite that closed ranks after 1971 to make sure that no member has to pay for the crimes of 1971. If men like Gul Hasan Khan, Tikka Khan and Rao Farman Ali continue to walk with a swagger in post-1971 Pakistan, if the quarter million ``Biharis`` continue to rot in
refugee camps, it is because the Pakistan`s ruling elite has always managed to sell theories of ``Hindu perfidy`` and ``Bengali treachery`` to a gullible nation to protect its own. Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan is doing the usual with their racist outbursts against Bengalis, Hindus and Indians.
It is easy to blame everything on others. Racist theories and conspiracy theories abound quite copiously in many a third world country where the ruling elite seeks solace by absolving itself of all responsibility and blaming it all on an omnipotent and perfidious enemy bent on mischief. The ruling elite in Pakistan is no exception. The 1971 genocide was a tragedy waiting to happen regardless of whether Bengalis in general and Hindus in particular had any malicious design on the world`s largest Islamic state, Pakistan.
Pakistan`s ruling elite never made any secret of its lack of respect for the Bengalis. Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan had both contemptuously dismissed Bengalis claim to be Pakistan`s national language. ``Field Marshall`` Ayub Khan`s ghost written auto-biography was quite explicit about the dictator`s racist disdain for East Pakistanis. Not even Sher-e-Bangla Fazlul Huq could escape his contempt. Pakistan`s ruling elite construed it in the fashion of Kipling as the ``burden`` of the tall and fair complexioned ``Aryans`` to be the colonial masters of the short dark complexioned ``Dravidians`` in East Pakistan rather than to be their compatriots.
A contrast with the Iranian situation says it all. When the Shah was about to be toppled, he couldn`t even dream of using the army in the manner of Yahya Khan to perpetuate the status quo. Ordinary soldiers would have never agreed to commit atrocities on their kith and kin to keep the Shah on the throne.
Yahya Khan never faced this problem. The soldiers had been brainwashed by the ruling elite, through years of stereotyping, into accepting its unflattering image of the Bengalis. The soldiers had been deliberately led to believe that Bengalis were not good Muslims, in fact Bengalis were viewed as subhumans. This is what made it possible for Pakistan`s ruling elite to enlist the support and cooperation of the ordinary Pakistani soldiers to perpetrate the genocide of 1971. Pak Army didn`t need any goading by the ``enemies of Islam`` to do the needful. It was ready and willing to to do the dirty work at the behest of the country`s ruling oligarchy. It did it under the banner of making East Pakistan safe from the enemies of Islam!
After 1971, Pakistan would have been well advised to take steps like:
(1) Arrange for the speedy repatriation of the stranded Pakistanis aka ``Biharis.``
(2) Make public the Hamoodur Rehman Commission Report.
(3) Take steps against those that were found responsible for the 1971 tragedy.
(4) Agree to an equitable division of the assets between Pakistan and Bangladesh.
(5) Compensate for the exploitation between 1947 1971.
(6) Offer reparations for the crimes of 1971.
(7) Try the criminals like Tikka Khan, Rao Farman Ali, Gul Hasan Khan etc.in a court of law for their crimes against humanity.
But absolutely nothing happened. Why? Is it India that has prevented Pakistan from doing the needful? Is it the Hindus who are trying to keep Bangladesh and Pakistan apart for all times to come? It would be too glib for anyone to suggest such an absurdity.
Anyone who wants a clue to the answer has only to read the posts by the likes of Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan. They made no attempt to hide their disrespect and disdain for the Bengalis. They are young enough to be in their twenties. But both seem to have inherited the racism of Pakistan`s military officers from ``martial races`` in good measure. The wonder is not that Pakistan was torn asunder in 1971. The wonder is that the parting of the ways didn`t happen any earlier.
Anyway, the Pakistani army doesn`t have the means to perpetrate another genocide in Bangladesh. Understandably, the nephew is now fulminating against the Sindhis and the Balochs. He has even ventured the thought that they ought to be nuked by the keepers of Pakistan`s unity (presumably the Punjabi officers in the Pakistan army). It is men, such as these, that are the traitors. They will go to any length, including genocide, to preserve their privileges and ill-gotten wealth.
Bengalis won`t be the victim the next time. It will now be the turn of the Sindhis and the Mohajirs, the Balochs and the Ahmadiyyas, the Christians and the Shias to pay for the greed and ambition of Pakistan`s ruling elite. That is why it is to the benefit of the common men in Pakistan to make sure that Pakistan`s army officers accused of crimes against humanity are tried in a court of a law to determine their guilt.
And, finally, I wish Brigadier Z.A.Khan would be foolish enough to pay heed to Mr. Omar Mirza`s advice. But after seeing what General Pinochet is going through in UK, the Brigadier is unlikely to venture into America to sue Mr. Jamal Hasan and/or Chowk.
justify the worst holocaust since the days of Hitler.
Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan, who considers herself a wise woman of today`s Pakistan, condiders Bengalis to be descendants of Mir Jafar, the Indian Quisling of 18th century India. She also makes it very clear that her father, the infamous
Brigadier Z.A.Khan, doesn`t think any better of the Bengalis. In her words, an apt epitaph for her father would say, ``Here lies the man who knew you can never trust a Bengali`` or something to that effect.
Mr. Omar Mirza, who is a nephew of the infamous Brigadier, fancies himself to be a legal scholar. He openly declares that if he were in the Brigadier`s shoes, he too would have done exactly the same thing in East Pakistan in 1971. In other words, for all the legal training that he has received, he is still prepared to repeat the crimes of 1971. Mr. Omar Mirza`s only regret seems to be that he did not get to personally murder any ``ghaddar`` Bengali.
The nephew and the daughter are merely mouthing the racism that is part and parcel of the officer class of the Pakistani army manned predominantly by members of the ``martial races.`` They have only contempt for ``non-martial`` races like the Bengalis and the Sindhis.
This is a clue to understanding the tragedy. I must commend Mr. Jamal Hasan`s for his excellent analysis in the article, ``Balkan Tragedy: A Re enactment of the 1971 Genocide.`` The article says it all and doesn`t need my comments to make it any more explicit or understandable. But it would do good to get an understanding of the racist prejudices among Pakistan`s ruling elite as a key to understanding the tragedy.
Theories on ``Hindu perfidy`` or ``Bengali treachery`` cannot expalin the 1971 tragedy. It is the racism, greed and ambition of Pakistan`s ruling elite that bears primary responsibility for
the failure in national integration that Harvard scholar Rounaq Jahan wrote about. And it is Pakistan`s ruling elite that closed ranks after 1971 to make sure that no member has to pay for the crimes of 1971. If men like Gul Hasan Khan, Tikka Khan and Rao Farman Ali continue to walk with a swagger in post-1971 Pakistan, if the quarter million ``Biharis`` continue to rot in
refugee camps, it is because the Pakistan`s ruling elite has always managed to sell theories of ``Hindu perfidy`` and ``Bengali treachery`` to a gullible nation to protect its own. Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan is doing the usual with their racist outbursts against Bengalis, Hindus and Indians.
It is easy to blame everything on others. Racist theories and conspiracy theories abound quite copiously in many a third world country where the ruling elite seeks solace by absolving itself of all responsibility and blaming it all on an omnipotent and perfidious enemy bent on mischief. The ruling elite in Pakistan is no exception. The 1971 genocide was a tragedy waiting to happen regardless of whether Bengalis in general and Hindus in particular had any malicious design on the world`s largest Islamic state, Pakistan.
Pakistan`s ruling elite never made any secret of its lack of respect for the Bengalis. Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan had both contemptuously dismissed Bengalis claim to be Pakistan`s national language. ``Field Marshall`` Ayub Khan`s ghost written auto-biography was quite explicit about the dictator`s racist disdain for East Pakistanis. Not even Sher-e-Bangla Fazlul Huq could escape his contempt. Pakistan`s ruling elite construed it in the fashion of Kipling as the ``burden`` of the tall and fair complexioned ``Aryans`` to be the colonial masters of the short dark complexioned ``Dravidians`` in East Pakistan rather than to be their compatriots.
A contrast with the Iranian situation says it all. When the Shah was about to be toppled, he couldn`t even dream of using the army in the manner of Yahya Khan to perpetuate the status quo. Ordinary soldiers would have never agreed to commit atrocities on their kith and kin to keep the Shah on the throne.
Yahya Khan never faced this problem. The soldiers had been brainwashed by the ruling elite, through years of stereotyping, into accepting its unflattering image of the Bengalis. The soldiers had been deliberately led to believe that Bengalis were not good Muslims, in fact Bengalis were viewed as subhumans. This is what made it possible for Pakistan`s ruling elite to enlist the support and cooperation of the ordinary Pakistani soldiers to perpetrate the genocide of 1971. Pak Army didn`t need any goading by the ``enemies of Islam`` to do the needful. It was ready and willing to to do the dirty work at the behest of the country`s ruling oligarchy. It did it under the banner of making East Pakistan safe from the enemies of Islam!
After 1971, Pakistan would have been well advised to take steps like:
(1) Arrange for the speedy repatriation of the stranded Pakistanis aka ``Biharis.``
(2) Make public the Hamoodur Rehman Commission Report.
(3) Take steps against those that were found responsible for the 1971 tragedy.
(4) Agree to an equitable division of the assets between Pakistan and Bangladesh.
(5) Compensate for the exploitation between 1947 1971.
(6) Offer reparations for the crimes of 1971.
(7) Try the criminals like Tikka Khan, Rao Farman Ali, Gul Hasan Khan etc.in a court of law for their crimes against humanity.
But absolutely nothing happened. Why? Is it India that has prevented Pakistan from doing the needful? Is it the Hindus who are trying to keep Bangladesh and Pakistan apart for all times to come? It would be too glib for anyone to suggest such an absurdity.
Anyone who wants a clue to the answer has only to read the posts by the likes of Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan. They made no attempt to hide their disrespect and disdain for the Bengalis. They are young enough to be in their twenties. But both seem to have inherited the racism of Pakistan`s military officers from ``martial races`` in good measure. The wonder is not that Pakistan was torn asunder in 1971. The wonder is that the parting of the ways didn`t happen any earlier.
Anyway, the Pakistani army doesn`t have the means to perpetrate another genocide in Bangladesh. Understandably, the nephew is now fulminating against the Sindhis and the Balochs. He has even ventured the thought that they ought to be nuked by the keepers of Pakistan`s unity (presumably the Punjabi officers in the Pakistan army). It is men, such as these, that are the traitors. They will go to any length, including genocide, to preserve their privileges and ill-gotten wealth.
Bengalis won`t be the victim the next time. It will now be the turn of the Sindhis and the Mohajirs, the Balochs and the Ahmadiyyas, the Christians and the Shias to pay for the greed and ambition of Pakistan`s ruling elite. That is why it is to the benefit of the common men in Pakistan to make sure that Pakistan`s army officers accused of crimes against humanity are tried in a court of a law to determine their guilt.
And, finally, I wish Brigadier Z.A.Khan would be foolish enough to pay heed to Mr. Omar Mirza`s advice. But after seeing what General Pinochet is going through in UK, the Brigadier is unlikely to venture into America to sue Mr. Jamal Hasan and/or Chowk.
#188 Posted by ferozk on April 28, 1999 6:30:21 pm
Re: Khokan # 186
Please try to refrain from making comparsions of the events of 1971 with what happened during the Shoah (1933-1945).
One of my first posts to this article warned the InterActers not to compare historical genocides. No one genocide is any less, in the horror of its crime, than any other. To draw a comparsion, no matter what the reason may be, lessens the suffering of the victims in another genocide by suggesting that it was not on par with the rest. To say the events of 1971 were worst example of a genocide since Hitler`s extermination of the Jews is a slap in the face of the victims of Pol Pot, China`s treatment of Tibeteans, the victims of Rwanda, the Christian minority in Sudan, the people of East Timor. The Shoah was another genocide in long line of such barbaric examples. Let us not forget the Boer experience at the hand of the British Army (1898-1902)and it was the British who first came up with the idea of concentration camps, to imprison the Boers, not the Germans; the Turkish massacre of the Aremenians; the purges of Stalin against the Kulaks of Ukraine or the mass killings of the Linz Cossacks at the end of the Second World War by the Russians!
I can understand your reasons for equating 1971 with the example of Shoah, but everytime you do that, you are in fact suggesting that there is an invisible line; a threshold which must be passed before we should be horrified at the level of brutality. By doing so, you are not only lessening the crimes of a genocide, but you are also sanitizing yourself mentally to tolerate repression until it reaches a certain state of repulsion before you consider the acts horrible enough to envince a reaction!
What happened in Bangladesh, in 1971, was horrible and it was certainly not the ``finest hour`` of Pakistan, but it was another human tradegy in long line of human tradegies. I think that Pakistan owes an account, to the world, of what happened and in this I support your claims to have justice served and the guilty punished, but if you and the people of Bangladesh think that I will support your claims, to be worst of than the other victims of this century`s genocides, then you are sorely mistaken.
Yes, the people of Bangladesh did suffer, but to suggest as you do that it was the worst suffering a people had to endure since the Shoah simply demeans and morally lessens the sufferings of others. By suggesting so, you seem to be advancing the idea that others did not suffer enough, because their pain was a lot less than what the Bengalis suffered!
There is no hierarchy of suffering and nor should there be one. We as human beings being should not legitimize the scales of human misery or suffering, because every time we do that, we lose a certain peice of our own humanity and become just a little more intolerant towards others. We should all do well to remember the words of the English poet John Donne:
``Every man`s death diminishes me for I am involved in mankind.....therefore, do not send to ask for whom the bells toll; it tolls for thee!``
Please try to refrain from making comparsions of the events of 1971 with what happened during the Shoah (1933-1945).
One of my first posts to this article warned the InterActers not to compare historical genocides. No one genocide is any less, in the horror of its crime, than any other. To draw a comparsion, no matter what the reason may be, lessens the suffering of the victims in another genocide by suggesting that it was not on par with the rest. To say the events of 1971 were worst example of a genocide since Hitler`s extermination of the Jews is a slap in the face of the victims of Pol Pot, China`s treatment of Tibeteans, the victims of Rwanda, the Christian minority in Sudan, the people of East Timor. The Shoah was another genocide in long line of such barbaric examples. Let us not forget the Boer experience at the hand of the British Army (1898-1902)and it was the British who first came up with the idea of concentration camps, to imprison the Boers, not the Germans; the Turkish massacre of the Aremenians; the purges of Stalin against the Kulaks of Ukraine or the mass killings of the Linz Cossacks at the end of the Second World War by the Russians!
I can understand your reasons for equating 1971 with the example of Shoah, but everytime you do that, you are in fact suggesting that there is an invisible line; a threshold which must be passed before we should be horrified at the level of brutality. By doing so, you are not only lessening the crimes of a genocide, but you are also sanitizing yourself mentally to tolerate repression until it reaches a certain state of repulsion before you consider the acts horrible enough to envince a reaction!
What happened in Bangladesh, in 1971, was horrible and it was certainly not the ``finest hour`` of Pakistan, but it was another human tradegy in long line of human tradegies. I think that Pakistan owes an account, to the world, of what happened and in this I support your claims to have justice served and the guilty punished, but if you and the people of Bangladesh think that I will support your claims, to be worst of than the other victims of this century`s genocides, then you are sorely mistaken.
Yes, the people of Bangladesh did suffer, but to suggest as you do that it was the worst suffering a people had to endure since the Shoah simply demeans and morally lessens the sufferings of others. By suggesting so, you seem to be advancing the idea that others did not suffer enough, because their pain was a lot less than what the Bengalis suffered!
There is no hierarchy of suffering and nor should there be one. We as human beings being should not legitimize the scales of human misery or suffering, because every time we do that, we lose a certain peice of our own humanity and become just a little more intolerant towards others. We should all do well to remember the words of the English poet John Donne:
``Every man`s death diminishes me for I am involved in mankind.....therefore, do not send to ask for whom the bells toll; it tolls for thee!``
#187 Posted by maliani on April 28, 1999 5:48:44 pm
It is true the Sindhis, the Balochs and the Pathans have all found encouragement in the events of 1971. In fact Punjabi leaders, who control the military and bureaucratic power structure of the central government, had always feared that the three minority provinces in the western wing would combine with the Bengalis against them. That is exactly why they had decided to consolidate the west wing into a single unit that would balance Bengali strength in a projected national government structure based on the concept of parity between the two wings.
Islamabad`s assault on the multi-ethnic populas and its commitment to an artificial monolithic Pakistani nationalism consitutes a frontal challenge to Baloch values. The result is a simmering freedom struggle that has flared up with progressively increasing intensity in 1948, 1958, 1962 and finally with full force in the 1973-1977 insurgency.
In the celebrated battle on October 10, 1958, at a remote mountain village known as Wad, the Baloch people led their guerrilla activites against the Army under the leadership of Nauroz Khan Zehri. Nauroz proclaimed that he would fight on until the undemocratic One Unit plan was abandoned. The pakistani government responded by bombing villages. Finally, with no end to hostilities in sight, the two parties met to discuss peace terms. Nauroz Khan and his men agreed to lay down their arms in return for the widthdrawl of the One Unit plan and a promise of safe conduct and amnesty. The army representatives sanctified their safe conduct pledge with an oath on the Quran. In any event, the the army dishonored their pledge and arrested Nauroz Khan. His son and five others were hanged on treason charges in July 1960.
Popular accounts related that the condemned cried, ``Long live Balochistan!`` as they went to the gallows. One of them reputedly tied a copy of the Quran around his neck, shouting that if he were hanged, the Quran must also be hanged, since the government had broken its holy oath.
In short, the Baloch struggle will continue till we free our homeland!
``man lutt u pullaa gutt gir kanaan
bungwaj kanaan zulmaa dir kanaan
maati watanaa ``noki sir`` kanaan
aazadi kanaan man baaghi aan!
man baaghi aan! man baaghi aan!``
In the looting and snatching I grab the throat,
I uproot, I drive away oppression
I make the motherland a ``new bride``
I make it free, I am a rebel!
I am a rebel! I am a rebel!
- Gul Khan Nasir, famous Baloch nationalist
writer and poet.
Islamabad`s assault on the multi-ethnic populas and its commitment to an artificial monolithic Pakistani nationalism consitutes a frontal challenge to Baloch values. The result is a simmering freedom struggle that has flared up with progressively increasing intensity in 1948, 1958, 1962 and finally with full force in the 1973-1977 insurgency.
In the celebrated battle on October 10, 1958, at a remote mountain village known as Wad, the Baloch people led their guerrilla activites against the Army under the leadership of Nauroz Khan Zehri. Nauroz proclaimed that he would fight on until the undemocratic One Unit plan was abandoned. The pakistani government responded by bombing villages. Finally, with no end to hostilities in sight, the two parties met to discuss peace terms. Nauroz Khan and his men agreed to lay down their arms in return for the widthdrawl of the One Unit plan and a promise of safe conduct and amnesty. The army representatives sanctified their safe conduct pledge with an oath on the Quran. In any event, the the army dishonored their pledge and arrested Nauroz Khan. His son and five others were hanged on treason charges in July 1960.
Popular accounts related that the condemned cried, ``Long live Balochistan!`` as they went to the gallows. One of them reputedly tied a copy of the Quran around his neck, shouting that if he were hanged, the Quran must also be hanged, since the government had broken its holy oath.
In short, the Baloch struggle will continue till we free our homeland!
``man lutt u pullaa gutt gir kanaan
bungwaj kanaan zulmaa dir kanaan
maati watanaa ``noki sir`` kanaan
aazadi kanaan man baaghi aan!
man baaghi aan! man baaghi aan!``
In the looting and snatching I grab the throat,
I uproot, I drive away oppression
I make the motherland a ``new bride``
I make it free, I am a rebel!
I am a rebel! I am a rebel!
- Gul Khan Nasir, famous Baloch nationalist
writer and poet.
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