Balkan Tragedy: A Re-enactment of the 1971 Genocide in Bangladesh

Iconoclast, from now on I shall call thee Judas.

And I almost neglected to mention another hypocritical class of perderasts or is it spelt pedagrasts? The ignorant Mullahs of Pakistan who sit and preach in the very country they and their forefathers opposed the creation of. They are also most defintely on top of my hit list. I don`t wish to be known as a bigot, because i`m an equal opportunity truth-teller.

And so it goes ...

I STILL know a Hawk from a Handsaw.

Re: Iconoclast

Con`t from my previous post

And when the foot soldiers of your `democratically

elected` representatives in the Lok Sabha, the VHP and the RSS come knocking on your door, not only should you keep the saffron handy, but you should also be ready to sacrifice `the fatted calf`, your eldest son as well. The Womyn of the house should be told to be spread eagled already ... but if one among you is not quite so craven (i grant that remote possibilty), because a few drops of Mughal blood somehow still remain in your veins, then let him/her prove it by deeds worthy of your ancestors. But i think you have been bred for the role of victims, it may be too late for you. When Sorrows come, they come not single spies, but in battalions.

Whats the matter ... you people don`t like `the other face` of India?

OMAR`s Response to Icon, Truth, Rishi, Satyavadi

iconoclast

note : Mr.OMAR......you call india as unprincipled. We all know what you did with Bangladesh and what you are doing with Kashmir. Leave India In peace with herself and her problems. We Indian Muslims have a tough time educating our christian and Hindu brethen that we are not stooges of Pakistan and you and the fascist Hindus of India will only make our lot tougher. Do us a favor

Response: First, I’d like a citation on where you got your info on the EU etc on Azad Kashmir. Secondly, I’m the last guy likely to do you any favors bud. You made your bed in 1947, now lie in it. My advice to you is to stop resisting the BJP and Bal Thackray. These are the bed fellows you have chosen to sleep with. If you wind up getting it up the arse, don’t howl to me. There are plenty of people who gave up their land, everything they had in India, even their lives and migrated to Pakistan. You know why? I’ll tell you why. Because those people today and their kids walk the streets through life with their heads held high, unlike you, and it shows. You chose compromises,chose to become an apologist for your very existence. For the people who left everything to build a new life starting from scratch, there was no turning back. Frankly, I really wish Bhutto had stayed in India and given Pakistan a break! Him and his wretched daughter and her infernal husband. The father responsible fully for his role in the break up of Pakistan, the daughter for looting what was left of it with her camel-jockey husband. In Conclusion I suggest you vote BJP and Shiv Sena in the coming elections. And consider some saffron when it comes time for you to save your miserable hide from rampaging mobs of communally minded-incited Hindus who want to teach you a lesson for being a Mughal descendent. The truth bites, but you can choke on it.



Truth states:

You have to be dumb as a brick not to realize that Hindus were in no mood to support the MUSLIM League arguing for a country partly on the basis that the Hindu majority was not to be trusted. The very basis of the Muslim League made it a non-starter for Hindus. How the Hindus thought was clear and incontrevertible. They were not supporters of Pakistan by any means.

Response: Well, that is my point Truth. I’m not dumb, just intent on exposing what really lies under the facade of secularism, that India preaches. Communal rioting. Hindu Revivalism. Bigotry. On the other hand, I feel Pakistan is too Mullah infested as well. And these guys are bigots too. Still, no reason I should spare THE TRUTH. I don`t believe in sparing anyone.

Satyadvadi states:

One last thing, India and Indians are not as evil as you are brainwashed to believe they are. I do not claim we are morality personified, but we are only as much selfish and opportunistic as ny other nation in the world. The world does not run on morality. As for invading East Pak, there were several motives, but if we consider only the motive of breaking a hostile nation, then also India did what Pakistan would do if there was turmoil in any part of India comparable to east Pak. So you are not on a morally superior ground, so please dont preach us.

Response: So, finally someone gets the point. I don’t know about morally superior ground, but this is precisely the point I have been trying to make, that Indian leaders have always hypocritically reached for the moral high ground

while practicing realpolitik. I don’t really have a problem with realpolitik by any means, but their holier than thou attitude is what truly infuriates me. Therefore it has become necessary to pull them down a few pegs to where they really belong.

I think I’ve also fully satisfied Rishi’s curiosity as to my motives in this reply. For what its worth, I`m sorry about the acrimony, but i`m not the one who attacked you personally first.

Kick me, and be forewarned to get thrown off the World Trade Center. I`m not one of the docile, homegrown `house negro` Indian Muslims you might be used to hanging out with. Yes, this is meant to shame them for being gutless. And I hate gutless people.

Dr. Saleh Tanveer has pointed out that the cold-blooded murder of Mr. Samsuddin (the project manager of Wapda project manager) by an Pak army officer (either Lt. Colonel Z.A.Khan himself or an officer directly under him) was not an isolated incident. And Brigadier Z.A.Khan has himself admitted to the loot and murder of a shop owned by a Bengali in the cantonment area by soldiers under him. But these crimes are only the tip of the iceberg. It would not be difficult to find witnesses to prove that the soldiers in the commando led by Lt. Colonel Z.A.Khan were guilty of crimes against humanity.

Mr. Omar Mirza, the 25 year old nephew of Brigadier Z.A.Khan, seems quite aware of this fact. That is why he unabashedly declared that he doesn`t care about witnesses to these crimes because in a poor country like Bangladesh witnesses can always be bought. In other words, no matter what, Mr. Omar Mirza will not admit to the crimes of his uncle. So it would be quite futile to provide him with the proofs that he is demanding. But that is indeed Mr. Mirza`s prerogative. But the nephew surely knows that no court of law in America will be as indulgent toward his uncle as he is.

In a court of law, it would be enough to prove that:

(1) crimes against humanity were committed by the soldiers under the command of Lt. Z.A.Khan. The murder of the Bengali shopowner and of Mr. Samsuddin are examples of such crimes.

(2) Lt. Colonel Z.A.Khan took no action against any soldier under his command for the crimes against humanity.

If Mr. Omar Mirza is indeed preparing for the Bar Exam, he might want to brush up the precedents established by the Nuremberg Trial. The British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook had some very specific precedents in mind when he declared that ``Anyone who carried out atrocities against the civilian population, anyone who gives orders for them to carry it out, or is complicity in those orders being given, and anyone who fails to prevent such orders or to prevent those orders being carried out - anyone in those categories is liable to face indictment before the international war crimes tribunal``.

It is not necessary to prove that Lt. Colonel Z.A.Khan personally pulled the trigger. It is very unlikely that General Pinochet ever pulled the trigger in any of the crimes he has been accused of. But in a post-Nuremberg world, he now finds his life on hold.

Lt. Colonel Z.A.Khan admits in his memoirs that he was aware that crimes were committeded by his soldiers when the shop in the cantonment area was looted. Did he take any action against the criminals? There is nothing in his memoirs to suggest that he did.

It is not enough to claim, as Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan has, that sepoy Aziz was asked to return the milk. In fact the claim is ludicrous. The shop owner had presumably been murdered. The shop was probabaly destroyed. Where did Sepoy Aziz return the milk?!!!

In fact, Lt. Colonel cannot even absolve himself of all responsibility by claiming that he was merely acting on the orders of his superiors (Colonel, Brigadier or even a General). In the post-Nuremberg world he had the responsibility to resist all illegal orders. Failure to do so was, by itself, a criminal act.

Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan has repeatedly threatened Chowk and Mr. Jamal Hasan with legal action unless they retract the allegations and issue an apology. Neither has bothered to respond to the threat. And understandably so. The nephew and the daughter will fare very miserably if, in their misguided loyalty toward their uncle/father, they are foolish enough to bring a law suit against Chowk/Jamal Hasan.

In fact, Mr. Jamal Hasan doesn`t even have to provide ``substantial legal proof`` to back up his allegation in an American Court. Brigadier Z.A.Khan is very much a public figure following the publication of his memoirs. It would be enough if Mr. Jamal Hasan can prove that he didn`t write anything out of personal malice and that he had probable cause to believe in the allegations that he made.

And as far as the victims of the 1971 genocide are concerned, they would like nothing better than such a law suit. It will provide the perfect public forum to revisit the crimes of Pak military officers in 1971.

And finally, Mr. Omar Mirza needs to be aware that military officers cannot escape punishment by claiming that a faceless mob had done just as much. Muslim mobs in Kosovo may have indeed committed crimes against isolated pockets of Serbian civilians. But that, in no way, will absolve Yugoslavian soldiers of their crimes against humanity.

Dear Mr. Ras Siddiqui:

Here`s the reply I had promised you earlier.

Bengali is among the most widely spoken languages of the world. In the

subcontinent, it is second only to Hindi in terms of number of speakers.

Bengali is the national language of Bangladesh and is the official language

in the Indian states of West Bengal and Tripura. Unfortunately, it hasn`t yet

made an impact on the socio-cultural landscape of the world that is

commensurate with a language that is the mother tongue of a quarter billion

people.

The day of Mother Teresa`s funeral was a memorable one for me. All the big

personalities of US news media were in Calcutta.

Dan Rather of CBS, Tom Brokaw of NBC, Peter Jennings of ABC, and Christiane

Amanpour of CNN were covering the final moments of her funeral. I had never

had the opportunity to visit Calcutta but have always wanted to because of

the city`s role in the 19th century cultural renaissance of Bengal. The

western media gave me a satisfactory glimpse of the city on that day.

Slums and shantytowns (typical ingredients of western coverage of any third

world city) were conspicuous by their absence on TV. It showed, instead, old

historical buildings, parks, green fields etc. I felt overwhelmed when I

heard the refrain of a Tagore song on TV. It was midnight in America. I

flipped through the major channels - ABC, NBC and CBS. All the TV stations

were broadcasting either a Bengali speech or a Bengali song. It was a

surrealistic experience! I realized all at once how much my mother tongue,

Bengali, means to me.

Bengali does mean a lot to me. But I am open minded enough to know that there

is a world beyond the one of Bengali speakers.

I was full of admiration for President Khatami of Iran when he stated in a

public forum that he wants to initiate ``a dialogue between different

civilizations``. I, too, believe in people to people interaction and exchange

of ideas. Huntington`s ``Clash of Civilizations`` is not my cup of tea.

Yesterday I was watching an interview on a cable channel. This was on a Sunday

program that is broadcast from a local TV station. James Zogby of the Arab

American Institute was interviewing Congressman Tom Campbell (Republican) from

California. Campbell seemed to be sympathetic toward the Palestinian cause. It

was a viewer call-in show and he received quite a few laudatory remarks from

Arab-American viewers.

Mr. James Zogby, a Christian-Arab, is doing a good job of mobilizing US public

opinion in favor of the Palestinian cause.

So is the Christian-Palestinian, Edward Said of Columbia University. They are

providing a voice for a people who had traditionally failed to received a

favorable audience among Americans. Hannan Ashrawi is another Christian-

Palestinian who is being heard with increasing respect by Americans.

Former US Senator James Abourezk was yet another Arab-American of Christian

heritage who did a yeomanly job in presenting the Arab cause in the Capitol

Hill. None of the above was a Muslim. But they all felt a bond with the long

suffering Palestinians because of their linguistic and ethnic heritage.

They had all felt compelled to speak up for the Arabic speaking Palestinians.

Even before the British Raj came into being, Bengal, Bihar and Orissa were

part of the same kingdom. Sirajuddowla was its last Nawab till his defeat in

1757 at the hands of the British at the Battle of Plassey. Since then,

political boundaries have been drawn and redrawn through the land many a

time. Geography made cousins of Bengalis and Biharis who inhabited the same

kingdom not too long ago. But history has made them estranged cousins. It is

indeed ironic that Biharis in Bangladesh have been waiting patiently in

refugee camps for well over a quarter century to be repatriated to the land

they consider their own, namely, Pakistan. They Indus is dearer to them than

the Ganges. They would rather be on the shores of the Arabian Sea than of the

Bay of Bengal.Historical evolution can indeed send us to unlikely destinations.

At the beginning of this century, Hindu Bengalis dominated the cultural and

literary activities in Bengal. Muslims, for reasons rooted in history, had

shunned the western ways and thoughts ushered in by the British Raj. It kept

them at once aloof and backward in an era where modern innovations had become

the preserve of the Europeans. At the start of this century, Muslim Bengalis

were Muslims rather than Bengalis not just in the eyes of the Hindu Bengalis,

but even in their own eyes. This was of course an aberration. This state of

affairs couldn`t continue for ever. But it would be a while before it would

get corrected.

While the downtrodden Bengali Muslims were busy eking out a living, the Muslim

elite preferred to stay busy with pan-Islamic causes like the Khilafat

Movement. It was fashionable among these upper class Muslim Bengalis to speak

Urdu even at home.Many knew Farsi as well. Some wrote poems in Urdu and Farsi.

One of my relatives of that era was the proud author of a book of Farsi poems.

This was quite typical of the Muslim Bengalis of Calcutta in the early 1920`s.

The Hindu Bengali got a headstart over the Muslim Bengalis with the advent of

reformers like Raja Rammohan Roy. It was the Hindu Bengalis who were at the

forefront of the cultural renaissance in 19th century Bengal. The Brahmo Samaj

took a modernist stance by discarding traditional Hindu mores. It went on to

play a major role in the cultural renaissance. The Nobel laureate Rabindranath

Tagore was the quintessential renaissance man. His humanistic philosophy has

left a permanent imprint in Bengal on Muslims and Hindus alike.

Kazi Nazrul`s appearance on Bengal`s cultural horizon had a profound influence

on the Muslim Bengalis who, for the first time, began to take as much pride in

being a Bengali as they took in being a Muslim. Muslim Bengalis suddenly

realized that they had as much right to Bengal`s language and culture as her

Hindus. The Muslim Bengalis were the ``new kid in town.`` Kazi Nazrul Islam

blazed a new trail as Muslim Bengalis reclaimed their rightful place in

Bengal`s literary and cultural milieu. Urdu and Farsi continued to influence

them but in a different way.

The change was epitomized by journals with names like ``Saogat`` and ``Mahe Nao``.

The Muslims in Bengal had started to become ``Bengalis.``

A recent interview of renowned Bangladeshi poet Sufia Kamal was very

revealing. She said that Urdu and Arabic had been the preferred language of

discourse in her family. She took to Bengali against the wishes of her

elders. But, today, it is a brand new world. ``Bangla-charcha`` has spread

beyond the realm of Bengali speaking people. Mr. Abu Syed Ayub from Bihar not

only mastered the language but went to become one of the foremost scholars on

Rabindranath Tagore.

I was highly gratified to learn that Rabindranath is taught to high school

students in Iran. Dr. Farshad Araghi is the Chairperson of Sociology Dept at

the Florida Atlantic University where I had worked earlier. He is among the

Iranians who have studied Tagore in great depth. He has taken great pains to

learn the language because he believes that he cannot do justice to Tagore

unless he reads his work in the original.

It is interesting to note that the Bengali wave began to overwhelm the

Mussalmans of East Bengal in earnest once it became East Pakistan after the

1947 partition of Bengal. The Bengali identity gradually overtook the Muslim

identity.Bangladesh would be the ultimate outcome of this transformation.

Field Marshall Ayub Khan understood the perils to nation building in this

cultural evolution. He even had Rabindranath Tagore banned on Pakistan Radio

in a futile bid to stem the tide of this insidious development. He was all

for a lingua franca for Pakistan. Needless to say, Bangla wasn`t his idea of

Pakistan`s lingua franca. Non-Bangla words, like ``hawaii bandar,`` were

incorporated in Bengali news broadcasts from Karachi to make it more

``Pakistani.`` In his bid to channelize Bengali in the right direction, East

Pakistan`s Governor, Monem Khan, went to the extent of requesting authors to

write Tagore songs that would be at once Pakistani and Islamic. It was as if

Winston Churchill was asking writers to come up with Shakespearean plays that

would fulfill the political needs of the sprawling British Empire.

Such puerile efforts of the Pakistani rulers in Islamabad were bound to fail.

The Muslim Bengali of East Pakistan became more of a Bengali during the Ayub

Khan regime than his ancestors had ever been. Political movements like the 6

point demand in the 1960`s, the 11 point demand in 1969 and, of course, the

Liberation Struggle in 1971 were logical outcomes of this change. Any

observer of Pakistan can attest to the communication gap between the east

wing and the west wing of Pakistan from 1947 thru 1971. The political power

had been usurped by an influential and powerful group in the west.

This ruling oligarchy had no clue to the political and cultural changes that

were taking place in the east. It was guided solely by its determination to

usurp a disproportionate share of the country`s wealth for itself and to go to

any length, even genocide, to preserve its colonial rule in East Pakistan.

I had started this essay with the Bihari question because it had touched me

personally. I have seen with my own eyes the dismal living condition among

the Biharis in the so-called Geneva camp in Mohammedpur. My heart bleeds to

think that anyone must endure such humiliation and hardship. Bangabandhu

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman had urged the Biharis to assimilate with the mainstream

Bengalis after Bangladesh was liberated.

He spoke out against victimizing the Biharis. In fact, he even termed the

Biharis as ``Amanat`` of Bangladesh. All Biharis were offered Bangladeshi

citizenship. Those that accepted the offer are living as fullfledged citizens

of the country.

But those that declined the offer to opt for Pakistan instead have been

rotting in refugee camps for the last twenty seven years. It is the height of

injustice for Pakistan`s ruling elite to discard these Biharis like the rind

of a squeezed lemon after using them as the cat`s paw from 1947 through 1971.

Let me cite a few examples of the evolution among Muslim Bengalis. Hussain

Shaheed Suhrawardy is remembered as a champion of the Bengali cause. He was

Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman`s mentor. Suhrawardy`s primary language (as

of many a West Bengali Muslim) was Urdu. He was not particularly fluent in

Bengali. His speeches in ``Bengali`` were labored and often times heavily laced

with Urdu. It has been said that he once had addressed the audience in a

political meeting as ``Bhadromohodoy ebong magee-gon``. He seemed quite

oblivious to the fact that ``magee`` is a derogatory word for woman.

The Awami League leader, Dr. Kamal Hossain, has played a prominent role in

Bangladesh. After liberation, he had accompanied Bangabandhu back to

Bangladesh from a prison cell in Pakistan. Currently, he is the United

Nations Special Investigator for Afghanistan. Urdu continues to be the

primary language in Dr. Hossain`s household. And he speaks Bengali with an

unmistakable Urdu accent.

1971 brought forth some interesting adjustments across the Urdu-Bangla fault

line. Some of my relatives living in West Pakistan were Urdu speaking. They

had to trek through Afghanistan to escape from Pakistan. To their dismay,

they were greeted with hostility when they finally reached their village in

Bangladesh. Disillusioned, they went back to Pakistan. But pretty soon they

realized that their heart was in Bangladesh.

Eventually they came back to Dhaka. In their own way they finally realized

that ``Home is where the heart belongs,`` as was said so aptly by a character

in the Meera Nair movie, ``Mississippi Masalla.``

The birth of Bangladesh has had a profound effect on Pakistan.

Ethnic, linguistic and cultural identities are coming to the fore at the

expense of religious identity. Not surprisingly, the change in Pakistan has

been anything but peaceful. Tribalism, sectarianism and savagery seem to be

triumphing over peaceful coexistence.

The Sindhis, the Balochs and the Pathans have all found encouragement in the

events of 1971.Their aspirations for nationhood cannot be suppressed for long.

But, unfortunately, the road might prove to be just as bloody as 1971 because

the rulers have failed to learn from its debacle in Bangladesh. It continues

to believe that the problem of national integration can be solved by sweeping

all ethnic and linguistic differences under the rug of religious solidarity.

``We are all Muslims,`` is its refrain even as it tries to smother the

nationalistic aspirations of Sindhis, Balochs or Pathans.

Pakistan was torn asunder in 1971. And it runs the danger of breaking into

many more pieces because it has failed to learn from the 1971 tragedy.

Technological progress and higher literacy rates in the coming decades will

aggravate the centrifugal forces in Pakistan as each linguistic group will

demand a nation of its own. The problem will be particularly acute because of

the Punjab factor. Punjab, by itself, constitutes a majority in multilingual

Pakistan. But traditionally, Punjab has misused this majority to push for an

unionist state instead of a federal one. Ironically, Punjab`s hegemonistic

ambitions will be the catalyst that may pose a greater threat to Pakistan`s

integrity.

India is by no means the model for a federal state. It has failed dismally to

cope with nationalistic movements in Kashmir and Punjab. Kashmir is still

bleeding. Nevertheless, India`s diversity has saved it from itself. No

province in India constitutes a majority by itself. As a result, the middle

class from different regions of the country have been forced into wheeling

and dealing to come up with a ruling coalition. This is especially true today

now that India has entered the era of coalition politics.

The recently concluded Chittagong Hill Tracts Peace Treaty helped Bangladesh

to contain the ethnic eruption in the region.

The Prime Minister of my native land was the peace warrior.

Now she is a proud winner of a UNESCO award given to her for her crucial role

in initiating the peace process in the south east corner of Bangladesh. Many

peace loving citizens of South Asia expect Pakistan and India would sit

together to find a political solution of the Kashmir crisis. And that

political solution ought to reflect the hopes and aspirations of all the

ethnic and religious groups of the great Kashmir nation.

It goes without saying that it is to India`s credit that it was able to

transform a separatist party in the South into a party with a stake in united

India. It is because of the Dravidian South that India continues to retain

English as an associate official language of the Union. I have come across

many a Tamilian or a Keralite who knows little or no Hindi. Yet they all seem

supporters of the coalition politics that is holding India together. India

has been able to cope surprisingly well with the Aryan-Dravidian racial

divide that effects the people`s view of something as fundamental as the

Ramayana. The Aryan north can shrug off attempts by the Dravidian south to

hold to a more benign image of the demon king Ravan or of Bengali poet

Madhusudan Dutt`s portrayal of Ravan`s son Meghnad as a greater hero than

either Ram or Lakshman.

The current century has witnessed many more conflicts than any other century

in the past. Unfortunately, this trend threatens to spill over to the next

century. Ethnic and linguistic groups will continue to clash against each

other till the world learns how to live and let live. And when that happens,

the world will finally turn into a global village.

I end with a quote from my favorite John Lennon song which says it all:

``Imagine there`s no countriesIt isn`t hard to doNothing to kill or die for

And no religion tooImagine all the peopleLiving life in peace

You may say I`m a dreamerBut I`m not the only oneI hope someday you`ll join us

And the world will live as one``

Thanks for listening.

Sincerely yours,

Jamal Hasan

Mr.KoKhan,

Your continued assumptions anout the inability of Z.A Khan, or anyone else named to travel freely internationally, outside Pakistan are totally amusing. Z.A Khan even wanted to visit Dhaka a few years back, but he couldn`t get permission from the Pakistan government (which requires special permission for visits to India and Bangladesh). None of these people are living like Adolph Eichmen, don`t flatter yourself. Why? Because they have Not been charged with any crime.

Those are the facts. Like it or not. Now personally, i don`t think there is any point in going over this particular issue again. None of them think of themselves as War Criminals I`m sure, because no one else does either. To be perfectly honest, we well know its the older generation of Bengalis, not even those in my own age group that are interested in this. And my initial interest was because I`m a history buff. And I`d like to set the record straight. But of course with certain people, I may well be casting pearls before swine or trying to make a silk purse out of a Sow`s ear in doing so. I don`t deny we all have preconceptions about things (`Liberation War` Vs. `Treason`), but if you really want to get to the truth, it will become necessary to overcome mere rhetoric, and here i am partly to blame also, but certainly not alone.

Also, someone else noted earlier that `war criminals` are not in the habbit of writing books.

regards,

RE: ALL

An interesting dicussion marred by unfortuneate posts.

People, for the sake of civilty and decorum, please refrain from personally charcterizing each other posts on the topic. Calling each other names will not in any way or form or shape help us to get to the bottom of this problem and find out what really happened 28 yrs. ago! Demonizing each other will only infuriate and embitter the discussions and it will only divert the arguments from the real questions at hand. This is a serious topic which needs to be dealt with the highest possible level of maturity we can possess and should not be trivalized and marginalized by questioning each other`s motives.

The only manner in which a coherent conclusive resolution of this issue will be attained is through an open minded dicussion of the issues at stake. If the last posts are indicative of the turn of events, then I am sorry to say that we, the supposedely educated, enlightened, tolerant intellectuals of Chowk, have learned nothing. It is my firm opinion that these questions must be aired in the open for the benefit of understanding the events of our past and from that that we may learn to live together. However, if re-opening the wounds of 1971 only fosters a sense of intolerance amongsts us, then there is absolutely no point in continuing with this discussion; we seem quite content to be intolerant of each other`s opinion and seem to rightly rejoice in our mutual animosity towards each other. It would seem that nothing has changed in the last 28 yrs. as far as we treat each other nor is there any hope of improvement in our future if we still adhere to these old practices of hate mongering and character assassinations.

The only way in which an honest verdict, on the issues of 1971, will be reached is if we, the people who experinenced the events of 1971 and those who grew up with its historic memory, are willing to approach this issue with an open and a tolerant mind. If we are not, then everything we do or seek to do on this topic will be a waste of breath!

For the sake of everyone concerned, I implore all participants in this discussion to be mindful of the emotional content of this discussion and respect the other person`s opinion as you wish your opinion to be respected! Ladies and gentlemen, I say this in all humility and with the deepest sense of respect; if you are not capable of arguing this issue with an open mind, please do not waste your time and effort on this issue.

Before we answer the question of what happened in 1971, we have to change our own sense of disposition towards that event and must be willing to allow our perceptions, of 1971, to be influenced by coherent logical arguments on the topic. None of us have a monoploy on the truth and should we approach this issue with that sort of a mental dogmatic pre-condition, then we would have only gained in not availing ourselves to an opportunity we should have capitialized on; a meaningful discussion on a serious issue which affects us all!!!

Dear Mr. M.N Khan, i do sincerely appreciate your reply #162, (if true and I assume it is not fabricated) it shows a determination to actually excavate the facts and get to the truth. I have stated repeatedly I am NOT against the TRUTH. IF by any means ALL THE TRUE FACTS COME TO LIGHT, it will be a service not only to your own country but to Pakistan. And I have always believed that the truth can never harm anyone who is honorable. The Truth only comes to light when one looks hard enough for it. Obviously if people have anything to say about Z.A Khan and units under his direct command, their operations etc, who knew him personally, or witnessed events he described, or have different versions of the incidents he described, I`m more than willing to listen and not only compare acounts, but ask questions. This is very different from baselessly, recklessly charging someone with being someone who fits the profile of a war criminal.

regards,

With one notable exception, I have found every participant in this forum to be very civil, cordial, and gentlemanly. Indians, Pakistanis, Bengalis, all. Yes we disagree terribly on fundamental issues; yet without being disagreeable. That is in itself a good beginning. In the future I intend to disregard any post from participants whose language is disrespectful or dishonourable. I hope the rest of you join me. No need to encourage errant behavior by elevating it to the level of polite discourse.

Mr. Omar Mirza is Brigadier Z.A.Khan`s nephew. Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan is the infamous Brigadier`s daughter. So, it is quite understandable why the duo is trying to silence author Jamal Hasan by issuing threats of legal action. But these would remain empty threats even if the 25 year old Mr. Omar Mirza manages to clear the Bar Exam sometimes in the near future. Mr. Jamal Hasan has little cause to lose sleep over them.

Firstly, it is very unlikely that Brigadier Z.A.Khan will ever dare to leave the safety of Pakistan to sue Mr. Jamal Hasan. Mr. Omar Miza might be young enough, brash enough and naive enough to believe so, but the infamous Brigadier knows better. He has a good idea of the statutes and laws British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook was referring to when he declared recently: ``Anyone who carried out atrocities against the civilian population, anyone who gives orders for them to carry it out, or is complicity in those orders being given, and anyone who fails to prevent such orders or to prevent those orders being carried out - anyone in those categories is liable to face indictment before the international war crimes tribunal``.

Secondly, whatever Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan might write on Chowk, they will cause great grief to many a near and dear one if they dare to act as proxies for the infamous Brigadier by initiating a legal suit against Chowk and/or Mr. Jamal Hasan. The victims of the 1971 genocide will like nothing better. A Court of Law would be the perfect forum to revisit the crimes of the Pakistani military officers in 1971. The nephew and the daughter will be ill-advised to open this can of worms.

Mr. Jamal Hasan has no reason to lose sleep over threats to silence him. These are empty threats.

If Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan persists with such threats, Mr. Jamal Hasan should call the bluff by telling them off with, ``Be my guest.`` Let`s see where the trio (the infamous Brigadier, his daughter and his nephew)goes from there!!

Re : All and Kashmiris in particular (with special reference to his honourable OMAR420 - thanks RAS )

``

PoK citizens tell alarming tales of Pak plans



Pakistan has changed the demography of Pak occupied Kashmir by systematically settling outsiders there.

The statement came from Mumtaz Khan on behalf of the European Union, at the 55th session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights in Geneva.

The session saw a large number of representatives from the PoK, where the state of human rights has touched its lowest, the EU said.

The EU public relations alleged that through another policy, Pakistan was brainwashing Kashmiri school children against their culture, language and history.

Things are worse in Gilgit and Baltistan, where though there is no insurgency or terrorism, there are intelligence agencies and the army. This is one region where people have no civil or constitutional rights, the EU alleged, and protests against this state of affairs are crushed by security forces and through sectarian clashes.

During the session, Zulfikar Khan Aziz, a political leader of Gilgit, said the Pakistani slogan for the right of self-determination for Kashmiris was a ploy to divert the world attention from PoK. Within the part of Kashmir under its occupation, Pakistan will not allow any movement for the right of self-determination. This slogan is only meant to incite Kashmiris on the Indian side, he said.

He said in Gilgit and Galtisan there were no job opportunities. ``We cannot even migrate to other countries because we are required to get exit permission from Pakistan though we are not part of Pakistan,`` he said.

In her statement, Helga Jurt said Pakistan nurtured the Harkat-ul-Ansar to unleash terror in Kashmir. This organisation, declared a terrorist outfit by the United States, claims of cleansing Kashmir of the Hindu minority.

``

This is the state in POK. Atleast in India, Kashmiris have absolute authority over their land, and no other Indian can even dream of settling there. Not even a muslim like me who is from the plains can settle in Kashmir. If the kashmiris are independant or a part of Pakistan, they can forget kashmiri and better learn punjabi. Kashmir would only end up as another Bangladesh.

Note : The BJP is a party which the kashmiris need to be aware of since this party wants to remove the article 370 . Anti Indian is stupid

.. Anti BJP makes sense.

iconoclast

note : Mr.OMAR......you call india as unprincipled. We all know what you did with Bangladesh and what you are doing with Kashmir. Leave India In peace with herself and her problems. We Indian Muslims have a tough time educating our christian and Hindu brethen that we are not stooges of Pakistan and you and the fascist Hindus of India will only make our lot tougher. Do us a favor

iconoclast

Mr. Omar Mirza is Brigadier Z.A.Khan`s nephew. Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan is the infamous Brigadier`s daughter. So, it is quite understandable why the duo is trying to silence author Jamal Hasan by issuing threats of legal action. But these would remain empty threats even if the 25 year old Mr. Omar Mirza manages to clear the Bar Exam sometimes in the near future. Mr. Jamal Hasan has little cause to lose sleep over them.

Firstly, it is very unlikely that Brigadier Z.A.Khan will ever dare to leave the safety of Pakistan to sue Mr. Jamal Hasan. Mr. Omar Miza might be young enough, brash enough and naive enough to believe so, but the infamous Brigadier knows better. He has a good idea of the statutes and laws British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook was referring to when he declared recently: ``Anyone who carried out atrocities against the civilian population, anyone who gives orders for them to carry it out, or is complicity in those orders being given, and anyone who fails to prevent such orders or to prevent those orders being carried out - anyone in those categories is liable to face indictment before the international war crimes tribunal``.

Secondly, whatever Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan might write on Chowk, they will cause great grief to many a near and dear one if they dare to act as proxies for the infamous Brigadier by initiating a legal suit against Chowk and/or Mr. Jamal Hasan. The victims of the 1971 genocide will like nothing better. A Court of Law would be the perfect forum to revisit the crimes of the Pakistani military officers in 1971. The nephew and the daughter will be ill-advised to open this can of worms.

Mr. Jamal Hasan has no reason to lose sleep over threats to silence him. These are empty threats.

If Mr. Omar Mirza and Ms. Muneezae Alam Khan persists with such threats, Mr. Jamal Hasan should call the bluff by telling them off with, ``Be my guest.`` Let`s see where the trio (the infamous Brigadier, his daughter and his nephew)goes from there!!

Letter from Saleh Tanveer to Brig. Z.A. Khan`s daughter:

Dear Ms. Muneezae Khan:

I don`t know for sure the culpability of your father.

However, I noted with interest his description of what transpired in Chittagong hill tracts. This includes the description of 50 urdu speaking people getting beheaded in Kaptai, allegedly by Mukti Bahini forces.

I and my family did know many people living there.

What we know is that a few urdu speaking people indeed got killed by an angry Bengali mob, bent on vengeance for what they heard had happened in Dhaka on March 25th night. The vengeance seekers included EPR personnel, enraged by the killing at the EPR barracks on March 25th night (I know since my home was in Dhanmondi, close

to the EPR camp).

The urdu speaking victims in Kaptai include Mr. Hamadoor Rahman, the project director and his two grown up sons, though their bodies were never recovered.

There were also a few more casualties of Urdu speaking people, but the number 50 is highly exaggerated.

Further, your father conveniently forgot to mention that a Pakistan army officer (perhaps one of his subordinates)in charge of reclaiming Kaptai

lined up Mr. Samsuddin, the Wapda project manager,

and Mr. Saleh, his associate and personally killed Mr. Samsuddin on the spot.

Mr. Saleh was saved when a Pathan guard interceded, stating that these two people were

responsible for saving many Urdu speaking people.

This happened on or around April 15th, `71.

Perhaps, you can ask your father and ascertain for yourself who the killer of Mr. Samsuddin was. For your sake, I hope it wasn`t him. The gusto with which the army killed was truly frightening; I only cited one of the instances.

Also, if your father would have been more forthright, he would have stated the Pakistani army position, known to its officers:

In order to save Pakistan, we must eliminate the hindus and awami league elements and their sympathizers, who are bent on destroying Pakistan.



The cause of Pakistan, the way they defined it,

seemed much more important than the lives of many innocents.

As part of this machine which committed planned and executed killing of a whole group of people, your father cannot completely escape guilt, even if he were not personally involved in the killing.

Sincerely,

Saleh Tanveer

Omar1974:

Another factor in all of India`s armed actions in Goa, Sikkim, Junagadh & Hyderabad. In all of these cases, democratic India invaded monarchies and colonial goverments and handed over the administration to the local people. We are in fact very principled people. We applied the same principle in not trying to absorb Bangladesh wherein we handed govt back to the local people in 1971.

Re: Jamal

And even if you still believe in judging war criminals , the burden of proof does rest on you and not on the alleged. You might have well slandered an innocent man who in reality may well have been not a part of those acts committed. ?

Just give this a moments thought. What if, just what if the person you choose to accuse was actually innocent ? Where would he seek his redressal for being falsely accused ? Well, au contraire, if you do have some tangible proof, then you might first be required to present them before you focus your attention on labelling someone a war criminal.

Re: Omar1947.

I did not want to reply to you at all, but then i think i can allow myself the privilege of this one.

My earlier posting should have answered your question. I do not consider the need for a tribunal to validate war crimes at all. Take it from someone who knows war first hand.

Omar1974:

Regarding India`s psychic abilities in divining the will of the Hindu majority in Hyderabad, Junagadh, (also Goa) without a plebiscite and not accepting Kashmiri sentiments without a plebiscite and your comments on lack of Indian principles.

You have to be dumb as a brick not to realize that Hindus were in no mood to support the MUSLIM League arguing for a country partly on the basis that the Hindu majority was not to be trusted. The very basis of the Muslim League made it a non-starter for Hindus. How the Hindus thought was clear and incontrevertible. They were not supporters of Pakistan by any means.

Muslims on the other hand were and still are divided - NWFP even elected a Congress Government. Jinnah was welcomed by a garland of shoes in Srinagar, Kashmir. Hence the need to ascertain Muslim views.

India operates on a single simple principle: that the people of British India could continue to occupy the same DEMOCRATIC political space despite myriad internal differences. This simple principle is what has driven Indian actions SUCCESSFULLY in Goa, Hyderabad, Punjab, Junagadh & Sikkim.

India has not been able to apply this principle succesfully in Kashmir and some states of the North-East. You on the other hand are consumed by blind hatred. Get over it.