Balkan Tragedy: A Re-enactment of the 1971 Genocide in Bangladesh
Jamal Hasan April 7, 1999
#49 Posted by ferozk on April 14, 1999 7:23:38 pm
Re: Rishi and Omar
The problem with reviewing the 1971 crisis in former East Pakistan is that it still exists within the living memory of many people in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. 28 yrs is not enough time to heal all the nationalistic passions which still exist and that goes for any meaningful dicussions in the region. In India and Pakistan, the past is not forgotten; it is not even a past, but a reality which shapes the present. Each national perspective, of the 1971 war, is not determined the events, but by the emotional content of its value to our national mindset.
There have been valid points, from all sides, in these InterActs. I am not sure who said it, but the observation was insightful. Pakistani policy needs to be less India specific and more multi-lateral in its outlook, but then again, Omar has a vaild point when he discusses the Indian military and its force projections as being Pakistan specific. This mutual reaction to each other`s intent and the inability to start afresh is the greatest impediment to the improvement of relations in the region.
For the record, I do not support the recent Pakistani test of its missile, in response to the Indian test, because this quid pro quo is not beneficial to the settlement of our outstanding problems. Pakistan has already established a level of credibility, to deter an Indian strike, and it should not seek an arms race with India, because the economic costs will be too Phyrric for Islamabad. Nor do I agree with the planned celebrations to mark the first anniversary of Pakistani nuclear tests. It is a waste of money and more importantly, a complete ignorance of reality.
Pakistani political leadership does not seem to understand that it is still under the sanctions regime and this one time presidental waiver will expire in October. Once it does, Clinton will have to seek another Congressional waiver to suspend the sanctions against Pakistan and keep its economy afloat. What will happen is that Pakistan, though economic and political mismanagement, will find itself on the brink of bankruptcy again. Lets not forget, the Paris Club has merely re-scheduled the Pakistani debt and not cancelled it. IMF will not release more payments if the sanctions are reimposed. Pakistan has five months to get its economic house in order and the sentiment on the Hill is that it will not get another ``Indian Summer``.
Pakistan needs to keep these issues in mind and it needs to deal with their potential significance to its national intergrity, which is of a far more serious nature than any Indian military build-up could pose to its security. Pakistan should have de-linked its India centric policies after the 1971 disaster, but it did not. I can understand the issues of 1971, in the present InterActs, and the questions being raised on the nature of treason, but those are academic questions. Pakistan and India can re-fight the 1971 war and its premutations endlessly, like a serialization of Rambo movies, but it still will not alter the reality that Pakistan can not economically, militarily, or demographically hope to attain a degree of parity with India.
The future of Pakistan will be more directly affected by these issues and not what should have happened 30 years ago! The greatest threat to Pakistani unity, as in 1971, is internalized and it is only when Pakistani political leadership externalizes its problems, as in 1971 again, does security of Pakistani is undermined. The Pakistani leadership is repeating the mistakes of 1971 in the sense that it is isolating and marginalizing political discourse in the country. Islamabad has to make a concentrated effort to engage the provinces and the various minorities in Pakistan in a meaningful discussion or risk the alienation of those groups from the center.
Otherwise, the situation will be repeat of events that led to the 1971 crisis and the breakup of East Pakistan from West Pakistan.
The problem with reviewing the 1971 crisis in former East Pakistan is that it still exists within the living memory of many people in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. 28 yrs is not enough time to heal all the nationalistic passions which still exist and that goes for any meaningful dicussions in the region. In India and Pakistan, the past is not forgotten; it is not even a past, but a reality which shapes the present. Each national perspective, of the 1971 war, is not determined the events, but by the emotional content of its value to our national mindset.
There have been valid points, from all sides, in these InterActs. I am not sure who said it, but the observation was insightful. Pakistani policy needs to be less India specific and more multi-lateral in its outlook, but then again, Omar has a vaild point when he discusses the Indian military and its force projections as being Pakistan specific. This mutual reaction to each other`s intent and the inability to start afresh is the greatest impediment to the improvement of relations in the region.
For the record, I do not support the recent Pakistani test of its missile, in response to the Indian test, because this quid pro quo is not beneficial to the settlement of our outstanding problems. Pakistan has already established a level of credibility, to deter an Indian strike, and it should not seek an arms race with India, because the economic costs will be too Phyrric for Islamabad. Nor do I agree with the planned celebrations to mark the first anniversary of Pakistani nuclear tests. It is a waste of money and more importantly, a complete ignorance of reality.
Pakistani political leadership does not seem to understand that it is still under the sanctions regime and this one time presidental waiver will expire in October. Once it does, Clinton will have to seek another Congressional waiver to suspend the sanctions against Pakistan and keep its economy afloat. What will happen is that Pakistan, though economic and political mismanagement, will find itself on the brink of bankruptcy again. Lets not forget, the Paris Club has merely re-scheduled the Pakistani debt and not cancelled it. IMF will not release more payments if the sanctions are reimposed. Pakistan has five months to get its economic house in order and the sentiment on the Hill is that it will not get another ``Indian Summer``.
Pakistan needs to keep these issues in mind and it needs to deal with their potential significance to its national intergrity, which is of a far more serious nature than any Indian military build-up could pose to its security. Pakistan should have de-linked its India centric policies after the 1971 disaster, but it did not. I can understand the issues of 1971, in the present InterActs, and the questions being raised on the nature of treason, but those are academic questions. Pakistan and India can re-fight the 1971 war and its premutations endlessly, like a serialization of Rambo movies, but it still will not alter the reality that Pakistan can not economically, militarily, or demographically hope to attain a degree of parity with India.
The future of Pakistan will be more directly affected by these issues and not what should have happened 30 years ago! The greatest threat to Pakistani unity, as in 1971, is internalized and it is only when Pakistani political leadership externalizes its problems, as in 1971 again, does security of Pakistani is undermined. The Pakistani leadership is repeating the mistakes of 1971 in the sense that it is isolating and marginalizing political discourse in the country. Islamabad has to make a concentrated effort to engage the provinces and the various minorities in Pakistan in a meaningful discussion or risk the alienation of those groups from the center.
Otherwise, the situation will be repeat of events that led to the 1971 crisis and the breakup of East Pakistan from West Pakistan.
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#50 Posted by Ras Siddiqui on April 14, 1999 10:49:11 pm
We have been reading quite a variety of views
on this welcome work by Jamal Hasan, who if
some of the Pakistanis are not aware has also
written about injustices done in Pakistan today.
He is a humanitarian in outlook and writes about
what he feels are the wrongs committed to human beings everywhere. So let us not try and intimidate him with legalistic postures.
If Jamal Bhai is wrong then let us try and prove it. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis need to learn
THE TRUTH about 1971. If Z A Khan wants to enlighten us, so be it. Let the Hamoodur Rehman
Commission Report come out and if Jamal Bhai can
be proven wrong then he will be the first to admit it. But let us not try and hide behind Bhutto`s ``betrayal``. Jamal Bhai has a genuine case because a lot of his countrymen were killed in 1971. I think that this warrants action by the GOP to at least educate us on what happened. Countries, nations and individuals have learnt a great deal from defeat and become very strong again (Germany, Japan etc..). Why cannot Pakistanis take responsibilty for their actions in 1971 today?
RE Omar1974: I do not know how Sk. Mujib can be called a ``Ghaddar`` (Traitor) by us. Democracy is the tyrrany of the majority. He won an election
on a slogan of certain Bengali grieviances which
had validity. He had the support and the votes
of the MAJORITY of the country and the Awami League had won a MAJORITY in the National Assembly. So by mathematical logic who were the
``ghaddars``? Bangladeshis or Pakistanis?
Whether India played the role of savior or spoiler depends on ones` perspective. All we know
is that India came out smelling like a rose in 1971 because Pakistan didn`t have a clue or just
chose not to look at reality.
So what this boils down to is that Jamal Bhai
is seeking justice. Other writers from Bangladesh
have been much more harsh (Even Pakistan`s poet
Ahmed Faraz has held back no punches in ``Paid
Murderers`` in one of his finest works in Urdu).
Let us at least think and reflect. If not for his (Jamal`s)sake then for Pakistan`s. ``Never Again`` should this kind of scenario ever be repeated.
And it wont be if Pakistanis learn from their past
instead of sweeping it under the rug.
And last but not least Pakistanis need to refocus
on the torment of the Kashmiris. No NATO planes will come to their aid so a negotiated settlement
with India appears to be the only way out. Let us
hear more from the Kashmiris (both Muslim and Pandit) on CHOWK. Who knows? We may come up with ideas to preserve our CIVILIZATION.
Ras
#51 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 15, 1999 11:54:16 am
And allow me to include the following facts about good neighborly India. India has always behaved like a school yard bully in S.E Asia. But has an extremely self serving hypocritical image of itself. Lets make Rishi and others look in the mirror and examine their country’s true face.
1947 – Treatment of Pakistan, hogging all military supplies of which one third were suppose to go to Pakistan
1947 – Illegal occupation and annexation of Kashmir by India to say nothing of Hyderabad and at least 2 other states that were to join moth-eaten Pakistan created by the British by division of Bengal and Punjab, in many cases forcing muslim majority areas on the border into India
1963 – Annexation and occupation of Goa by force from Portugal
1965-- India moved forces into the Rann of Kutch
1971—Sponsorship of Mukti Bahini from its soil, and invasion of East Pakistan, breaking up the country
1960s-70s---After obtaining ‘heavy water’ from Canada and technological help in setting up nuclear power plants for peaceful purposes, ‘Bhudda Smiled’ as India exploded its first nuclear device for which it has obtained help from foreign nations including Canada through duplicitous assurances regarding its ‘peaceful’ nuclear program. Canada ended all nuclear aid to India, claiming to having been duped by Indian leaders and their treacherous lies.
1970s--- Bhutan & Sikim, do I really need to list details of what India did to these 2 formerly independent albeit weak Himalyan states ?
1980s--- India creates crisis with poor Bangladesh over river water sharing.
1983--- Siachen crisis began, although here Zia may share some of the blame, but India has consistently refused to resolve the crisis by simply withdrawing troops which Pakistan has repeatedly suggested. Cost to India and Pakistan $1 million daily + the human misery of the conditions prevailing.
1980s--- Economic Embargo of Poor Landlocked Nepal over its purchases over anti aircraft guns from China
1980s--- Support for LITTE terrorist group in Sri Lanka to put pressure on Sri Lankan govt to allow India troops and forces a base and foothold on the Island. When Sri Lanka acceded, India switch support and fought the LITTE.
1980s--- Brutal repression of various insurgencies in India, in Nagaland, Punjab, Kashmir and others.
1984 --- Thousands of Sikhs die in Communal riots in Delhi etc after Indira Gandhi killed.
1990s--- Babri Masjid demolition by BJP etc while Indian govt refused to intervene reveals the other face of ‘Secular India’, also the communal riots that follow in Bombay result in thousand of Muslims dead.
1980s/90s--- Massive increases in military spending annually, BLUE WATER NAVY Developed. Increased POWER PROJECTION CAPABILITIES.
1990s--- Acquisition of Nuclear sub from Russia, First country to test nukes in the region, and develop long range missiles. Pakistan has constantly been forced to parry each Indian thrust/move. India conducts massive military exercises near the border.
1990s--- Indian fanatics persecute and kill Christian missionaries trying to help the poor in the country’s North. India intensifies nuclear and missile race on the sub continent, plans to spend billions of dollars in acquisition of military hardware while its poverty stricken people starve and sleep in the streets.
The above brief timeline of history clearly shows India’s hegemonic designs in the region and its often crude methods of dealing with its neighbors, as well as shatter the facade it tries to project of internal harmony to the World as the ‘World’s biggest democracy’. Kashmiri elections usually get a 5% voter turn out. The time line also reveals a pattern of hegemony and behavior towards all its neighbors as well as all minorities within India. Its hard to imagine this is the birthplace of the architect of nonviolence Gandhi. India’s hypocrisy knows no bounds. It also teaches a lesson that the only way to deal with India is from a position of strength and a strong willingness to knock out all its teeth if necessary. This is the only known method of restraining India. (The Chinese example of 1963 shows the way) I’m open to better alternatives, if they can be shown to work. India has always PREACHED Non-Violence, ahimsa, the non-aligned movement way etc, but has PRACTISED REALPOLITIK, and the use of calculated force. Its an UGLY country with EVIL designs. Not that I have too many illusions about the state of affairs in Pakistan and its history. But India has always adopted a hypocritical holier than thou attitude.
1947 – Treatment of Pakistan, hogging all military supplies of which one third were suppose to go to Pakistan
1947 – Illegal occupation and annexation of Kashmir by India to say nothing of Hyderabad and at least 2 other states that were to join moth-eaten Pakistan created by the British by division of Bengal and Punjab, in many cases forcing muslim majority areas on the border into India
1963 – Annexation and occupation of Goa by force from Portugal
1965-- India moved forces into the Rann of Kutch
1971—Sponsorship of Mukti Bahini from its soil, and invasion of East Pakistan, breaking up the country
1960s-70s---After obtaining ‘heavy water’ from Canada and technological help in setting up nuclear power plants for peaceful purposes, ‘Bhudda Smiled’ as India exploded its first nuclear device for which it has obtained help from foreign nations including Canada through duplicitous assurances regarding its ‘peaceful’ nuclear program. Canada ended all nuclear aid to India, claiming to having been duped by Indian leaders and their treacherous lies.
1970s--- Bhutan & Sikim, do I really need to list details of what India did to these 2 formerly independent albeit weak Himalyan states ?
1980s--- India creates crisis with poor Bangladesh over river water sharing.
1983--- Siachen crisis began, although here Zia may share some of the blame, but India has consistently refused to resolve the crisis by simply withdrawing troops which Pakistan has repeatedly suggested. Cost to India and Pakistan $1 million daily + the human misery of the conditions prevailing.
1980s--- Economic Embargo of Poor Landlocked Nepal over its purchases over anti aircraft guns from China
1980s--- Support for LITTE terrorist group in Sri Lanka to put pressure on Sri Lankan govt to allow India troops and forces a base and foothold on the Island. When Sri Lanka acceded, India switch support and fought the LITTE.
1980s--- Brutal repression of various insurgencies in India, in Nagaland, Punjab, Kashmir and others.
1984 --- Thousands of Sikhs die in Communal riots in Delhi etc after Indira Gandhi killed.
1990s--- Babri Masjid demolition by BJP etc while Indian govt refused to intervene reveals the other face of ‘Secular India’, also the communal riots that follow in Bombay result in thousand of Muslims dead.
1980s/90s--- Massive increases in military spending annually, BLUE WATER NAVY Developed. Increased POWER PROJECTION CAPABILITIES.
1990s--- Acquisition of Nuclear sub from Russia, First country to test nukes in the region, and develop long range missiles. Pakistan has constantly been forced to parry each Indian thrust/move. India conducts massive military exercises near the border.
1990s--- Indian fanatics persecute and kill Christian missionaries trying to help the poor in the country’s North. India intensifies nuclear and missile race on the sub continent, plans to spend billions of dollars in acquisition of military hardware while its poverty stricken people starve and sleep in the streets.
The above brief timeline of history clearly shows India’s hegemonic designs in the region and its often crude methods of dealing with its neighbors, as well as shatter the facade it tries to project of internal harmony to the World as the ‘World’s biggest democracy’. Kashmiri elections usually get a 5% voter turn out. The time line also reveals a pattern of hegemony and behavior towards all its neighbors as well as all minorities within India. Its hard to imagine this is the birthplace of the architect of nonviolence Gandhi. India’s hypocrisy knows no bounds. It also teaches a lesson that the only way to deal with India is from a position of strength and a strong willingness to knock out all its teeth if necessary. This is the only known method of restraining India. (The Chinese example of 1963 shows the way) I’m open to better alternatives, if they can be shown to work. India has always PREACHED Non-Violence, ahimsa, the non-aligned movement way etc, but has PRACTISED REALPOLITIK, and the use of calculated force. Its an UGLY country with EVIL designs. Not that I have too many illusions about the state of affairs in Pakistan and its history. But India has always adopted a hypocritical holier than thou attitude.
#52 Posted by satyavadi on April 15, 1999 11:54:16 am
Dear Pakis ( from COPYCAT PAKISTAN),
Shed your obsession to match India in all fields, specially defense. Agni is meant for a poor - weak and dissented and samll nation like you. That one is for China... OK.. So please dont cry loud whenever Indis tests any missile or anything... Whatever we have now is more than sufficient to deal with you guys.. So the new developments are for the purpose that China or anyone else doesnt bully us.
So stop shouting.. security etc.. please. Its good that we are not obsessed with you as you are with us.. No one in India has said that Ghouri is a big threat.. etc... We do everything for our security and are not reactionary like you people.
If you want to match India, let me give a bit of news. Before two weeks or so, we launcehd INSAT 2E
satellite... This may well be our 30th Satelllite.. Here is a field where you can try to match India.. I can give u a clue, like you imported Nordong from North Korea and renamed it Ghouri, your TIMETESTED FRIEND ( or should I say master) China can provide you with some satellites... and then you can claim you have matched India in this field also..
But I think you guys are too much obsessed with defense to think of anything else.
I know this is not the right forum for this topic, but couldnt find an alternative place.
Anyway...Good luck guys.. come out of your obsession.
Satyavadi ( I always speak the truth)
Shed your obsession to match India in all fields, specially defense. Agni is meant for a poor - weak and dissented and samll nation like you. That one is for China... OK.. So please dont cry loud whenever Indis tests any missile or anything... Whatever we have now is more than sufficient to deal with you guys.. So the new developments are for the purpose that China or anyone else doesnt bully us.
So stop shouting.. security etc.. please. Its good that we are not obsessed with you as you are with us.. No one in India has said that Ghouri is a big threat.. etc... We do everything for our security and are not reactionary like you people.
If you want to match India, let me give a bit of news. Before two weeks or so, we launcehd INSAT 2E
satellite... This may well be our 30th Satelllite.. Here is a field where you can try to match India.. I can give u a clue, like you imported Nordong from North Korea and renamed it Ghouri, your TIMETESTED FRIEND ( or should I say master) China can provide you with some satellites... and then you can claim you have matched India in this field also..
But I think you guys are too much obsessed with defense to think of anything else.
I know this is not the right forum for this topic, but couldnt find an alternative place.
Anyway...Good luck guys.. come out of your obsession.
Satyavadi ( I always speak the truth)
#53 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 15, 1999 11:54:16 am
I agree with Ferozk that the economic situation is at least as big a threat to Pakistan as Indian hagemony in the region. Neither country can really afford an expensive arms race, but i think we can reasonably state that it is INDIA that is responsible by and large for introducing the vast bulk of spohisticated new weapon systems into the region, and testing nukes and missiles to carry them. Pakistan has been forced to play catch-up at every turn. Truly a sorry state of affairs.
#54 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 15, 1999 11:54:16 am
Ras : I`m not against THE TRUTH coming out, just the factually baseless defamation of people. The burden of proof in this case is NOT on Brig. Z.A Khan, but rather on anyone who states that he `fits the profile of a war criminal`, who must be brought to trial for his, `heinous crimes,` clearly an implication that he committed acts amounting to genocide in the context of this article. This is completely and utterly unacceptable, considering the author nor anyone else has ever provided any factual evidence in this regard, much less made such a statement. Kindly obtain a copy of `The way it was,` published in Pakistan by the gentleman and read it for yourself.
Also, I`m not entirely convinced `our civilization is WORTH Saving ...
Also, I`m not entirely convinced `our civilization is WORTH Saving ...
#55 Posted by iconoclast on April 15, 1999 12:04:29 pm
Re: RAS SIDDIQUE
``And last but not least Pakistanis need to refocus
on the torment of the Kashmiris. ``
-- And also on the torment of the Sindhis, the Balochs and the torment of the Pakistanis in general
iconoclast
``And last but not least Pakistanis need to refocus
on the torment of the Kashmiris. ``
-- And also on the torment of the Sindhis, the Balochs and the torment of the Pakistanis in general
iconoclast
#56 Posted by rishi on April 15, 1999 12:04:29 pm
Re: Omar
About Pakistan being concerned (duly or unduly) about Indian hegemonistic designs, go back and read the dawn on the internet about how Pakistan reacted to the AGNI tests and also the indian newspapers and rediff as to how India reacted and proacted to the Gauri and Agni tests. In Pakistan politics is run based on India alone. While in India neither the public nor the press nor even the government gave any undue hoopla to pakistan or to its tests. We all should know who the losers are ..... the ordinary Pakistani public who can be tricked by his ruler just by playing the India card.
just one word to describe this....Immaturity
Rishi
(p.s: i support the testing of Gauri by Pakistan and i even encourage them to test hundreds of missiles if that makes them feel secure. What i don`t understand is the kid brother attitude that both Pakistan`s government and the public not to mention even the press displayed over this whole hungamma. Just shows that Pakistanis can be lead into any trap by the Indians if they so wish )
About Pakistan being concerned (duly or unduly) about Indian hegemonistic designs, go back and read the dawn on the internet about how Pakistan reacted to the AGNI tests and also the indian newspapers and rediff as to how India reacted and proacted to the Gauri and Agni tests. In Pakistan politics is run based on India alone. While in India neither the public nor the press nor even the government gave any undue hoopla to pakistan or to its tests. We all should know who the losers are ..... the ordinary Pakistani public who can be tricked by his ruler just by playing the India card.
just one word to describe this....Immaturity
Rishi
(p.s: i support the testing of Gauri by Pakistan and i even encourage them to test hundreds of missiles if that makes them feel secure. What i don`t understand is the kid brother attitude that both Pakistan`s government and the public not to mention even the press displayed over this whole hungamma. Just shows that Pakistanis can be lead into any trap by the Indians if they so wish )
#57 Posted by JR on April 15, 1999 3:52:34 pm
There are a few things about Pakistan that stand out in a strange way. Pakistan is one bundle of contradictions. How about this for starts, Pakistan is an Islamic republic, essentially a theocratic state and yet the constitution of Pakistan guarantees all freedoms to every citizen, even a non-Muslim. A theocratic democracy? Well, the world knows how well that has worked in Pakistan. The reality is, Pakistan is an army, a Muslim army, with a state. And the army has done a great job with the propaganda by continuing to paint a picture of constant threat of aggression and hence the heavy defense expenditure. Finally everything being spent on is only Defence. The whole identity of the nation and its peoples is based on this Islamic Army and a modern political environment is trying to be fashioned from it. What you see in Pakistan today are the failures of those travails.
The national language of Pakistan is Urdu. Urdu was and is an exclusive, high society language of some well established Muslim communities with origins in India. By no means is Urdu a majority language considering the geography of modern Pakistan. But again, a contradiction of sorts continues its flawed existence. Take Kashmir, a geographic entity at the storm centre of South Asian politics- Yes. I say it is again one of Pakistan`s interesting contradictions. What is it that Pakistan wants? Kashmir for itself? NO! The recent rhetoric is that all Pakistan wants is for India to allow Kashmiris to self determine. And Pakistan will do anything, even risk nuclear war so that Kashmiris can self determine. Pakistan does not want to risk nuclear war for any of its own pressing problems but will risk nuclear war so that the neighboring Kashmiris may have their freedom.
Mohamed Ali Jinnah, the father of the nation, the proponent of the two nation theory wanted a safe place for Muslims. From whom? Now you see that by the creation of Pakistan, its peoples are no safer, because its leadership says that there is a constant threat of aggression from the hegemon neighbor. Are the Muslims any safer now with nuclear missiles aimed in their direction? How about East Pakistan and West Pakistan, geographically separated by a 1000 kms. I cant believe Jinnah agreed for such a country already divided to govern. Another contradiction that was. Take Pakistan`s foreign policy, it has a friend in America, a friend who labels it a terrorist state, a friend who has sanctions against it, Pressler Amendment, no help at times of war (1965 and 1971), but still a friend nevertheless. Contradiction or what?
I firmly believe that Pakistan needs to redefine itself politically and internationally. Indian leaders are well aware of the inherent chaos in Pakistan and are capitalizing on it. They are taunting and leading on Pakistan into an arms race which they very well know Pakistan cannot afford. Remember how they allowed the East and West Pakistan thing to prove to Pakistan`s detriment? They will continue to undermine Pakistan much the same way that the US led the USSR into its present quagmire. Set aside the jingoism and take a hard look at the real state of affairs.
The national language of Pakistan is Urdu. Urdu was and is an exclusive, high society language of some well established Muslim communities with origins in India. By no means is Urdu a majority language considering the geography of modern Pakistan. But again, a contradiction of sorts continues its flawed existence. Take Kashmir, a geographic entity at the storm centre of South Asian politics- Yes. I say it is again one of Pakistan`s interesting contradictions. What is it that Pakistan wants? Kashmir for itself? NO! The recent rhetoric is that all Pakistan wants is for India to allow Kashmiris to self determine. And Pakistan will do anything, even risk nuclear war so that Kashmiris can self determine. Pakistan does not want to risk nuclear war for any of its own pressing problems but will risk nuclear war so that the neighboring Kashmiris may have their freedom.
Mohamed Ali Jinnah, the father of the nation, the proponent of the two nation theory wanted a safe place for Muslims. From whom? Now you see that by the creation of Pakistan, its peoples are no safer, because its leadership says that there is a constant threat of aggression from the hegemon neighbor. Are the Muslims any safer now with nuclear missiles aimed in their direction? How about East Pakistan and West Pakistan, geographically separated by a 1000 kms. I cant believe Jinnah agreed for such a country already divided to govern. Another contradiction that was. Take Pakistan`s foreign policy, it has a friend in America, a friend who labels it a terrorist state, a friend who has sanctions against it, Pressler Amendment, no help at times of war (1965 and 1971), but still a friend nevertheless. Contradiction or what?
I firmly believe that Pakistan needs to redefine itself politically and internationally. Indian leaders are well aware of the inherent chaos in Pakistan and are capitalizing on it. They are taunting and leading on Pakistan into an arms race which they very well know Pakistan cannot afford. Remember how they allowed the East and West Pakistan thing to prove to Pakistan`s detriment? They will continue to undermine Pakistan much the same way that the US led the USSR into its present quagmire. Set aside the jingoism and take a hard look at the real state of affairs.
#58 Posted by rishi on April 15, 1999 3:52:34 pm
Re : OMAR
To reply 54 :
I have looked into the mirror more than once and i know where me or the country where i was born stand, thank you.
`` 1947 – Treatment of Pakistan, hogging all military supplies of which one third were suppose to go to Pakistan ``
-- And this also was the same country which under directions from Gandhi provided valuable foreign exchange to Pakistan when it could have gotten away without it. I am not claiming that India is a noble saint. There can be no one noble and nobility is not a valuable asset to anyone in today`s world (even though gandhi attempted at it..whether you deny it or not). Rather, a country needs to be sane. And sanity states that a country should look at things practically to its benefits and when its leaders act otherwise , the country should throw those leaders out through some process or the other.
`` 1947 – Illegal occupation and annexation of Kashmir by India to say nothing of Hyderabad and at least 2 other states that were to join moth-eaten Pakistan created by the British by division of Bengal and Punjab, in many cases forcing muslim majority areas on the border into India ``
-- one third of kashmir was annexed by pakistan which also ceded a part to china. get your history facts staight. India on the other hand signed an instrument of accession and the people and the king of kashmir accepted it. The issue is over the plebiscite promised by Nehru and not the government of India. For this to be brought into reality, Pakistan first has to liberate or vacate POK. Hyderabad and Goa were annexed, i agree. Much as how Texas was annexed by the US. True. This does not mean that India is going to annex Pakistan now,, just like how the US is not going to annex Mexico anymore. How far do you want to dig into history my boy and do remember that the skeletons you dig up will not be always to your fancy.
``1963 – Annexation and occupation of Goa by force from Portugal``
-- answered this already. Actually i never looked at it from this perspective. Defeating a european nation ...hmmm...hmmm
``1965-- India moved forces into the Rann of Kutch``
-- agreed.
``1971—Sponsorship of Mukti Bahini from its soil, and invasion of East Pakistan, breaking up the country``
-- agreed. But no invasion of East Pakistan. It was Pakistan which Invaded India . History ???? and FACTS ????
`` 1960s-70s---After obtaining ‘heavy water’ from Canada and technological help in setting up nuclear power plants for peaceful purposes, ‘Bhudda Smiled’ as India exploded its first nuclear device for which it has obtained help from foreign nations including Canada through duplicitous assurances regarding its ‘peaceful’ nuclear program. Canada ended all nuclear aid to India, claiming to having been duped by Indian leaders and their treacherous lies.``
-- Agreed and Accepted
`` 1970s--- Bhutan & Sikim, do I really need to list details of what India did to these 2 formerly independent albeit weak Himalyan states ?``
-- These two states/countries do not carry any grouse against the Indian Union. You can go to rest easy on this one
`` 1980s--- India creates crisis with poor Bangladesh over river water sharing.``
-- A legitimate crises over water sharing. It has been solved today much to the delight of the bengalis on both sides of the border.
`` 1983--- Siachen crisis began, although here Zia may share some of the blame, but India has consistently refused to resolve the crisis by simply withdrawing troops which Pakistan has repeatedly suggested. Cost to India and Pakistan $1 million daily + the human misery of the conditions prevailing. ``
-- India can afford this cost...or so it appears.
`` 1980s--- Economic Embargo of Poor Landlocked Nepal over its purchases over anti aircraft guns from China ``
-- Wow, aren`t you shedding tears for Hindu Nepal, the only Hindu country in the whole wide world.. For a moment i thought that your grouse was against Hindus. Now that it is against India i can rest easy. Nepalies don`t seem to have any such grouse against the Indians though...thank you
`` 1980s--- Support for LITTE terrorist group in Sri Lanka to put pressure on Sri Lankan govt to allow India troops and forces a base and foothold on the Island. When Sri Lanka acceded, India switch support and fought the LITTE.``
-- A mistake which was fully attributable to India and Rajiv Gandhi in particular. And India paid the price. But do note that both these actions by the govt of india were opposed in many quarters (by the press , the public and the opposition ) ...very much similar to the vietnam episode. That is what democracy is..my boy
`` 1980s--- Brutal repression of various insurgencies in India, in Nagaland, Punjab, Kashmir and others.``
-- insurgencies will be dealt with in any nation worth its salt.
`` 1984 --- Thousands of Sikhs die in Communal riots in Delhi etc after Indira Gandhi killed.``
-- an act done by the followers of the congress party and goons. The nation owed and did apologized to the sikh community (who are a part of the extended hindu family )
`` 1990s--- Babri Masjid demolition by BJP etc while Indian govt refused to intervene reveals the other face of ‘Secular India’, also the communal riots that follow in Bombay result in thousand of Muslims dead. ``
-- Deeply regrettable. But this is also the same country were a 20 % minority could return the same act to the 70 % majority . And this is again only because the 70 % majority has more than 80 % secularists in its fold. So essentially you are attributing the actions of a miniscule 5 % of the country and vote hungry politicians to the whole nation. never mind....yes babri masjid episode was a slur on the country`s democracy and secularism..........
`` 1980s/90s--- Massive increases in military spending annually, BLUE WATER NAVY Developed. Increased POWER PROJECTION CAPABILITIES.``
-- what else do you expect ?
`` 1990s--- Acquisition of Nuclear sub from Russia, First country to test nukes in the region, and develop long range missiles. Pakistan has constantly been forced to parry each Indian thrust/move. India conducts massive military exercises near the border. ``
-- again what else do you expect ?
`` 1990s--- Indian fanatics persecute and kill Christian missionaries trying to help the poor in the country’s North. India intensifies nuclear and missile race on the sub continent, plans to spend billions of dollars in acquisition of military hardware while its poverty stricken people starve and sleep in the streets. ``
-- ha ha ha.... very funny... about the christians,,, this country has a christian defense minister and its next prime minister might probably be a christian. this is not a nation were christians are persecuted by law as in pakistan (remember the shariat and the blasphemy). A few christians also killed and raped hindus in India. Does this mean that India is persecuting Hindus. Wake up will ya ?
`` The above brief timeline of history clearly shows India’s hegemonic designs in the region and its often crude methods of dealing with its neighbors, as well as shatter the facade it tries to project of internal harmony to the World as the ‘World’s biggest democracy’. ``
-- Yes, India does have hegemonic ambitions. Rather than terming it hegemonic, India likes to think of itself as a big and powerful nation both economically , scientifically and militarily. But pakistan need not be scared of India, not anymore with your nukes and all.
`` The time line also reveals a pattern of hegemony and behavior towards all its neighbors as well as all minorities within India. ``
-- neighbours i understand,, but minorities.... now who should be looking into the mirror , dear one ?
`` Its hard to imagine this is the birthplace of the architect of nonviolence Gandhi. ``
-- you are actually praising Gandhi... even i would not do that ............
``It also teaches a lesson that the only way to deal with India is from a position of strength and a strong willingness to knock out all its teeth if necessary. ``
-- My you really believe that don`t you. A classic example of how pakistani govt has made almost all pakistanis to become. You not only belittle your neighbours potentials but also overrate yours. A strong man does not boast about his strength . It is always a weak man who does that to boost his purported strength. Read todays msnbc news which talks about how much a dud the Ghauri missile was and how the pakistanis were overrating its capabilities to match up with their stupid neighbours. Brave words my friend. and if that makes you go to bed happily , i shall not dispute it... but then you do know the truth don`t you.
`` This is the only known method of restraining India. (The Chinese example of 1963 shows the way)``
-- The chinese are bigger and stronger. We know it, realize it and respect it. That is why India is a smarter nation. A smart person is one who realizes that someone is stronger than himself and respects it and tries to protect himself , not someone who kids himself into believing that he is smarter and can know the stronger mans teeth off.
``Its an UGLY country with EVIL designs.``
-- now India is EVIL and UGLY... What else ?
`` Not that I have too many illusions about the state of affairs in Pakistan and its history. But India has always adopted a hypocritical holier than thou attitude. ``
-- Aha, so finally we are to where it counts. All you are bothered about is not that India is so Bad, but because even though India is so bad, every one blames Pakistan even though it is only as bad as India, while they praise India inspite of being a bad boy......I understand. Now what shall we do about it......???????????????
Rishi
To reply 54 :
I have looked into the mirror more than once and i know where me or the country where i was born stand, thank you.
`` 1947 – Treatment of Pakistan, hogging all military supplies of which one third were suppose to go to Pakistan ``
-- And this also was the same country which under directions from Gandhi provided valuable foreign exchange to Pakistan when it could have gotten away without it. I am not claiming that India is a noble saint. There can be no one noble and nobility is not a valuable asset to anyone in today`s world (even though gandhi attempted at it..whether you deny it or not). Rather, a country needs to be sane. And sanity states that a country should look at things practically to its benefits and when its leaders act otherwise , the country should throw those leaders out through some process or the other.
`` 1947 – Illegal occupation and annexation of Kashmir by India to say nothing of Hyderabad and at least 2 other states that were to join moth-eaten Pakistan created by the British by division of Bengal and Punjab, in many cases forcing muslim majority areas on the border into India ``
-- one third of kashmir was annexed by pakistan which also ceded a part to china. get your history facts staight. India on the other hand signed an instrument of accession and the people and the king of kashmir accepted it. The issue is over the plebiscite promised by Nehru and not the government of India. For this to be brought into reality, Pakistan first has to liberate or vacate POK. Hyderabad and Goa were annexed, i agree. Much as how Texas was annexed by the US. True. This does not mean that India is going to annex Pakistan now,, just like how the US is not going to annex Mexico anymore. How far do you want to dig into history my boy and do remember that the skeletons you dig up will not be always to your fancy.
``1963 – Annexation and occupation of Goa by force from Portugal``
-- answered this already. Actually i never looked at it from this perspective. Defeating a european nation ...hmmm...hmmm
``1965-- India moved forces into the Rann of Kutch``
-- agreed.
``1971—Sponsorship of Mukti Bahini from its soil, and invasion of East Pakistan, breaking up the country``
-- agreed. But no invasion of East Pakistan. It was Pakistan which Invaded India . History ???? and FACTS ????
`` 1960s-70s---After obtaining ‘heavy water’ from Canada and technological help in setting up nuclear power plants for peaceful purposes, ‘Bhudda Smiled’ as India exploded its first nuclear device for which it has obtained help from foreign nations including Canada through duplicitous assurances regarding its ‘peaceful’ nuclear program. Canada ended all nuclear aid to India, claiming to having been duped by Indian leaders and their treacherous lies.``
-- Agreed and Accepted
`` 1970s--- Bhutan & Sikim, do I really need to list details of what India did to these 2 formerly independent albeit weak Himalyan states ?``
-- These two states/countries do not carry any grouse against the Indian Union. You can go to rest easy on this one
`` 1980s--- India creates crisis with poor Bangladesh over river water sharing.``
-- A legitimate crises over water sharing. It has been solved today much to the delight of the bengalis on both sides of the border.
`` 1983--- Siachen crisis began, although here Zia may share some of the blame, but India has consistently refused to resolve the crisis by simply withdrawing troops which Pakistan has repeatedly suggested. Cost to India and Pakistan $1 million daily + the human misery of the conditions prevailing. ``
-- India can afford this cost...or so it appears.
`` 1980s--- Economic Embargo of Poor Landlocked Nepal over its purchases over anti aircraft guns from China ``
-- Wow, aren`t you shedding tears for Hindu Nepal, the only Hindu country in the whole wide world.. For a moment i thought that your grouse was against Hindus. Now that it is against India i can rest easy. Nepalies don`t seem to have any such grouse against the Indians though...thank you
`` 1980s--- Support for LITTE terrorist group in Sri Lanka to put pressure on Sri Lankan govt to allow India troops and forces a base and foothold on the Island. When Sri Lanka acceded, India switch support and fought the LITTE.``
-- A mistake which was fully attributable to India and Rajiv Gandhi in particular. And India paid the price. But do note that both these actions by the govt of india were opposed in many quarters (by the press , the public and the opposition ) ...very much similar to the vietnam episode. That is what democracy is..my boy
`` 1980s--- Brutal repression of various insurgencies in India, in Nagaland, Punjab, Kashmir and others.``
-- insurgencies will be dealt with in any nation worth its salt.
`` 1984 --- Thousands of Sikhs die in Communal riots in Delhi etc after Indira Gandhi killed.``
-- an act done by the followers of the congress party and goons. The nation owed and did apologized to the sikh community (who are a part of the extended hindu family )
`` 1990s--- Babri Masjid demolition by BJP etc while Indian govt refused to intervene reveals the other face of ‘Secular India’, also the communal riots that follow in Bombay result in thousand of Muslims dead. ``
-- Deeply regrettable. But this is also the same country were a 20 % minority could return the same act to the 70 % majority . And this is again only because the 70 % majority has more than 80 % secularists in its fold. So essentially you are attributing the actions of a miniscule 5 % of the country and vote hungry politicians to the whole nation. never mind....yes babri masjid episode was a slur on the country`s democracy and secularism..........
`` 1980s/90s--- Massive increases in military spending annually, BLUE WATER NAVY Developed. Increased POWER PROJECTION CAPABILITIES.``
-- what else do you expect ?
`` 1990s--- Acquisition of Nuclear sub from Russia, First country to test nukes in the region, and develop long range missiles. Pakistan has constantly been forced to parry each Indian thrust/move. India conducts massive military exercises near the border. ``
-- again what else do you expect ?
`` 1990s--- Indian fanatics persecute and kill Christian missionaries trying to help the poor in the country’s North. India intensifies nuclear and missile race on the sub continent, plans to spend billions of dollars in acquisition of military hardware while its poverty stricken people starve and sleep in the streets. ``
-- ha ha ha.... very funny... about the christians,,, this country has a christian defense minister and its next prime minister might probably be a christian. this is not a nation were christians are persecuted by law as in pakistan (remember the shariat and the blasphemy). A few christians also killed and raped hindus in India. Does this mean that India is persecuting Hindus. Wake up will ya ?
`` The above brief timeline of history clearly shows India’s hegemonic designs in the region and its often crude methods of dealing with its neighbors, as well as shatter the facade it tries to project of internal harmony to the World as the ‘World’s biggest democracy’. ``
-- Yes, India does have hegemonic ambitions. Rather than terming it hegemonic, India likes to think of itself as a big and powerful nation both economically , scientifically and militarily. But pakistan need not be scared of India, not anymore with your nukes and all.
`` The time line also reveals a pattern of hegemony and behavior towards all its neighbors as well as all minorities within India. ``
-- neighbours i understand,, but minorities.... now who should be looking into the mirror , dear one ?
`` Its hard to imagine this is the birthplace of the architect of nonviolence Gandhi. ``
-- you are actually praising Gandhi... even i would not do that ............
``It also teaches a lesson that the only way to deal with India is from a position of strength and a strong willingness to knock out all its teeth if necessary. ``
-- My you really believe that don`t you. A classic example of how pakistani govt has made almost all pakistanis to become. You not only belittle your neighbours potentials but also overrate yours. A strong man does not boast about his strength . It is always a weak man who does that to boost his purported strength. Read todays msnbc news which talks about how much a dud the Ghauri missile was and how the pakistanis were overrating its capabilities to match up with their stupid neighbours. Brave words my friend. and if that makes you go to bed happily , i shall not dispute it... but then you do know the truth don`t you.
`` This is the only known method of restraining India. (The Chinese example of 1963 shows the way)``
-- The chinese are bigger and stronger. We know it, realize it and respect it. That is why India is a smarter nation. A smart person is one who realizes that someone is stronger than himself and respects it and tries to protect himself , not someone who kids himself into believing that he is smarter and can know the stronger mans teeth off.
``Its an UGLY country with EVIL designs.``
-- now India is EVIL and UGLY... What else ?
`` Not that I have too many illusions about the state of affairs in Pakistan and its history. But India has always adopted a hypocritical holier than thou attitude. ``
-- Aha, so finally we are to where it counts. All you are bothered about is not that India is so Bad, but because even though India is so bad, every one blames Pakistan even though it is only as bad as India, while they praise India inspite of being a bad boy......I understand. Now what shall we do about it......???????????????
Rishi
#59 Posted by maliani on April 15, 1999 7:29:09 pm
What about illegal occupation of Balochistan by Pakistan
#60 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 16, 1999 1:30:17 am
Maliani : Kindly explain in detail what i already percieve as being the outlines of the most ridiculous argument. Baluchistan, in order to have been `occupied` by Pakistan, would have at some point had to be a SOVEREIGN entity. Now maybe my historical knowledge is lacking, but Sovereignity in 1947 passed from Britain to the Government of Pakistan, AFTER this province and others VOTED TO JOIN PAKISTAN. I doubt you can come up with a cogent well reasoned argument to support your position.
#61 Posted by rishi on April 16, 1999 1:30:17 am
Re: Jamal
As is wont, this discussion too went into the almost regular pakistan vs India slang war.
And we end up digressing from your topic. Which was and is about ethnic cleansing practised by the serbs which according to you was comparable to the ethnic cleansing by the west pakistanis.
hope we can stick to this ...I indeed apologize for contributing to the digression (hope i was`nt as anti-pakistani as some anti-indian comments)
Rishi
As is wont, this discussion too went into the almost regular pakistan vs India slang war.
And we end up digressing from your topic. Which was and is about ethnic cleansing practised by the serbs which according to you was comparable to the ethnic cleansing by the west pakistanis.
hope we can stick to this ...I indeed apologize for contributing to the digression (hope i was`nt as anti-pakistani as some anti-indian comments)
Rishi
#62 Posted by fozia on April 16, 1999 8:22:34 am
re:satyavadi
I agree that Pakistan is hypersensitive when it comes to their military might vs India. It`s very true that if Pakistan engaged in a ``healthy`` rivalry with India in other areas - such as you mentioned satellites, or for that matter any other technological research, it would be much better for Pakistan`s economy. But why stop with technology, why don`t they try to rival india in economic growth and acadmeic acheivements? Friendly competition can actually push people to greater achievements.
Regards,
Fozia
I agree that Pakistan is hypersensitive when it comes to their military might vs India. It`s very true that if Pakistan engaged in a ``healthy`` rivalry with India in other areas - such as you mentioned satellites, or for that matter any other technological research, it would be much better for Pakistan`s economy. But why stop with technology, why don`t they try to rival india in economic growth and acadmeic acheivements? Friendly competition can actually push people to greater achievements.
Regards,
Fozia
#63 Posted by mnkhan58 on April 16, 1999 8:22:34 am
Dear Readers,
Today I came across the following write-up of Mr. Khaled Ahmed in Bangladesh Newsgroup. This write-up is very pertinent because Mr. Ahmed discussed Brigadier Z.A. Khan’s ``The Way It Was`` highlighting the civil rights violations (Yes, forcible death by firepower is the ultimate violation of one’s civil rights. Right?) of Bengalis during the brutal nine months in 1971.
Sincerely,
M. Nawaz Khan
In soc.culture.bangladesh Mr. Khaled S. Ahmed wrote on April 16, 1999:
``I would request the Brigadier’s daughter (Muneezae Khan) and Mr. Omar1974 to read very carefully the following article that I wrote for News From Bangladesh. Lt. Colonel (later Brigadier) Z.A. Khan’s role in killing Bengalis is graphically detailed in his own write-up. Lt. Colonel Z.A. Khan was the commander of a commando battalion that was very much involved in killing Bengali army officers and civilians in Comilla, Chittagong, and Chittagong Hill Tracts. He and his commando most certainly did cover much ground during the dark days of 1971. It won’t be difficult, believe me, to find people in Bangladesh who would be most willing to place the Lt. Colonel in the killing fields of 1971. Furthermore, his memoir that is full of incriminatory details would go a long way to prove beyond any shadow of doubt that his hands were stained with Bengali blood as was the case with the majority of 90,000 Pakistani soldiers.``
News From Bangladesh March 22, 1999
READERS OPINION
‘The Way It Was’ - Reading Between The Lines
Khaled S. Ahmed Maryland/USA e-mail: KhaledSA@aol.com
Nightmare came back as I was reading the series ``The Way It Was`` by the Pakistani Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN as he narrated Pakistan`s bloody, brutal and barbarous occupation of Bangladesh during 1971. While he could carefully, deliberately and faithfully hide facts obviously because of his guilt, it is also unfortunate that there is no remorse, regret or penitence in his text, phrase, wording and expressions. Further, in his efforts to hide his guilt subconsciously he mentioned about Hindus on two occasions without much relevance to the other parts of his writings, forgetting that they were in a land of 85% Muslims.
However, Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN deserves credit for revealing facts which can be read between the lines and may become much more damaging evidence of unconscionable, unethical, unlawful and cowardice behaviour of Pakistani Generals organising Genocide in Bangladesh.
Disrespect for International Law
Major General Rao Farman`s instruction to a Colonel to use his discretion in the event Sheikh Mujib would have escaped to Japanese Consul General residence is clear disrespect and disregards for international law. Rao Farman was clearly aware of that law but neither had the guts give straight instruction to violet the right of a diplomat nor the brevity to respect the international law which does not permit any intrusion to any diplomats enclave.
Because, I have intimately known the than Consul General Mr. Takenaka since1957, I could assure the readers that in the event Sheikh Mujib would have decided to escape to his diplomatic enclave it would not have been possible by all the Generals of Pakistan including the President acting together to arrest Sheikh Mujib without killing the diplomat. He would never have dishonoured his country, a country considers it to be much more honourable to admit guilt and ask for forgiveness.
Freedom Fighting
The valiant guard of Sheikh Mujib who pulled a Dah, a long bladed knife, to protect his master was much more courageous than those hiding Generals. He is a shining example of freedom loving Bangladeshis who were not afraid of automatic weapons. It is not that he did not know who is covering whom, presumably only thing he knew that he must fight for the freedom. Perhaps, he is the first freedom fighter responded to March 7th call for freedom movement of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Whatever ``way`` one attempts to describe the 1971 events of Bangladesh, those who fought for democracy and freedom shall be glorified and those who perpetrated the Genocide shall be cursed.
Disrespecting Democracy
Havildar Major Khan Wazir who gave Sheikh Mujib a resounding slap on his face, was not only a Havildar of Pakistan Army but he was representing Major General Rao Farman, Major General Mitha, Lt. General Tikka, General Hamid and the President General Yahya Khan while Sheikh Mujib, a democratically elected leader, was representing over 120 million people of Pakistan, from whom these Generals were earning their daily wages. I wish those Generals had the sagacity and wisdom to understand from the history of mankind that that resounding slap, will be reverberating all over the land of 65 million freedom loving Bengalis, and will eventually came back as thunderous humiliation of surrendering to the joint command Bangladesh and India within nine months. As long as history of mankind will be there that resounding slap will resonate louder and louder the atrocity, annihilation, brutality, barbarity, butchery, cruelty, carnage, crime, destruction, extermination, horror, killing, murder, outrage and rape committed by Pakistani Generals in Bangladesh.
After 28 years those Pakistan army Generals, officers and soldiers participated in that process must now be much closer to their graves (if not already in) and are in their fifties, sixties and seventies. Many of them are having children and grand children including teenage daughters and granddaughters. Dissemination of information through Internet shall make these innocent girls aware (if they are not already aware) what type of crime their fathers and grand fathers committed in during 1971 occupation of Bangladesh including rape and shall even for a moment try to look deep into their eyes to detect the perpetrators.
For new generations of Pakistanis I must tell that there were certainly some good people in their army but were out numbered by the sinister. During early part of November 1971 one such good, devout and honest 19 year old young Pakistani Militia (member of Para-Military) described his experience in Urdu as - Yea Qauom Nehi Rahe Sakta (this nation can not survive), Etni Jana-Bazi (so many rapes), Etni Beimani (so much betrayal - they were killing the young girls after having kept them in bunkers), Afsos - Yea Qauom Nehi Rahe Sakta (so pitiable - this nation can not survive). It is high time for Pakistanis youths to resound, reverberate and resonate the feeling of that Allah fearing holy young man and compel the perpetrators to ask for forgiveness.
Shivering Butcher Of Baluchistan
Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote ``Just for fun, I told him that I had arrested a man that looked like Mujib and I thought it was Mujib but was not sure. On hearing this General Tikka shot out of his chair like a jack in the box, he called for Brigadier Jilani who had heard me as he was standing just inside the office entrance.``
It is known that when General Sahibjada Yakub did not support GeneralYahya`s plan of Genocide in Bangladesh and he was purged and General Tikka was chosen for the unholy task because of his reputation in ruthlessly suppressing a revolt in Baluchistan and eventually became object of fun for his subordinate Colonel on the very first day of his operation. When any one encourage violating law of the land they should not expect better treatment from their subordinates. To be an object of fun of their subordinate officers is the ultimate reward for the so called powerful Generals of Pakistan. For 65 million Bengalis these Pakistani Generals were no jokers, they were a perpetrators of Genocide.
Where Is The Whole Truth
It was the night of 25th March and the Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote ``I was standing and smoking, a light machine gun, sited at the headquarters perimeter wire, either accidentally or the gunner saw something, fired a short burst. For a while after the burst was fired it was quiet, then every weapon in the cantonment and in the city opened fire. Not to be outdone the anti-craft regiment on the airfield also fired, green and yellow tracer arcs crisscrossed the whole of Dacca, after a few minutes the firing ceased as suddenly as it had started ``.
Did the firing really ceased ? Those who experienced the night knows that the firing continued through out the night, all over the city, killing well over 10,000 unarmed civilians including students and teachers of the Dhaka University. Neither it was started suddenly nor it was an accident, it was planned to surprise and terrorise the unarmed civilian in their bid to take away freedom of 65 million Bengalis. Every weapon in the cantonment and in the city can not open fire without plan and without plan how could they have had lethal weapons in the Dhaka city.
In the event Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN has the opportunity to write his epitaph presumably he may have to decide for - ``man sleeping in this place wanted to tell the whole truth``.
Rayban Glass and Hiding Commander
While the valiant, daring and bold freedom fighter Major Ziaur Rahman had his guts to put on Rayban glasses and two flags flying on his jeep, cowardly, timid and unstable Pakistani commander had locked himself in his room in the Circuit House and was not coming out because he thought if he ``gave any orders and something went wrong he would be sacked.``
Prisoner of War and Geneva Convention
Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote ``..……. Bengali soldiers who were prisoners, officers and Bengali servants of West Pakistani officers were taken and shot ……..The Bengali element of the 3 Commando Battalion who had been locked up in the quarter guard, were also taken out and shot………….
While Major Khaled Musharraf of Bangladesh had the courage, dignity and honour not to shoot his prisoners Lieutenant Colonel Khizar Hayat, Major Sadiq Nawaz and other Pakistanis although he was operating in open paddy field in Brahmanbaria/Sylhet area, Pakistani Generals who had well over 300,000 Sq. mile under their control showed no respect for Geneva Convention in shooting those unarmed prisoners and it was extra-ordinary abuse of human rights done without any remorse and hesitation.
Looting of Bangladesh
Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote- ``A few days after the military action started he (his batman Sowar Abdul Aziz) brought tins of powdered milk for my two-year old younger daughter who had been crying for milk and no milk was available. When my wife asked him where he got the milk from, he told her that soldiers were looting the subedar`s shop and he had taken the milk from there. The Bengali subedar from the Army Clerical Corps had been the personal assistant to the Commilla brigade commanders and after retirement had opened a general store in the Commilla cantonment market from where most officers used to buy items of daily use, his shop was amongst the first to be looted by the troops in Commilla.``
What better justification Pakistanis can have for looting Bangladesh other than for the purpose of feeding two year old ``Joy Bangla`` chanting innocent little angel - daughter of the Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN.
Battle of Belonia - A Major Against A Major General
Battle of Belonia was fought between Major Khaled Musharraf of Bangladesh and Major General Rahim Khan of Pakistan. Major Khaled Musharraf had his forces at a higher elevation when Major General Rahim Khan ordered his forces to march in and until almost entire of his two infantry battalions were wiped out he did not understand his foolishness. By the time commandos started marching Major Khaled Musharraf already decided to withdraw inflicting heavy casualties and therefore Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN certainly ``found that the commandos had successfully carried out the mission and returned``. After that Battle of Belonia a General in Dhaka cantonment said to have commented about Major Khaled Musharraf - we have trained him so well, we had to use a Major General against that Major.
At the time Pakistani Generals would not move around the country without a large contingent of escort and there was no virtual army movement after dusk, brave, defiant, courageous warrior Major Khaled Musharraf repeatedly came back to Bangladesh soil to launch guerrilla attack on Pakistani occupation army positions until he was seriously wounded and hospitalised. His and other sector commander’s courageous forces operated all over the country including Dhaka city, the Farm Gate incident narrated was one such operation.
It is not surprising that Generals of Pakistan army were having commandos posted as guards at their bedroom doors. It is not surprising that they were terrified to bring their dead back for even an honourable burial ceremony, perhaps Allah never wanted them to get that honour. It is not surprising that they became so much afraid of Mukti Bahini, they were begging of every visitors from Pakistan to pray for their safe return. It is not surprising that their so called ``Tiger`` General Niazi had that blank look to murmur -``kuch karo`` and millions saw that blank look while his gun and badges were taken off at Dhaka`s Race Course Maidan only a few yards away from the place Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman roared to declare independence of Bangladesh - ``Ebarer Sangram, Muktir Sangram, Ebarer Sangram - Shadhinatar Sangram.``
---END---
Today I came across the following write-up of Mr. Khaled Ahmed in Bangladesh Newsgroup. This write-up is very pertinent because Mr. Ahmed discussed Brigadier Z.A. Khan’s ``The Way It Was`` highlighting the civil rights violations (Yes, forcible death by firepower is the ultimate violation of one’s civil rights. Right?) of Bengalis during the brutal nine months in 1971.
Sincerely,
M. Nawaz Khan
In soc.culture.bangladesh Mr. Khaled S. Ahmed wrote on April 16, 1999:
``I would request the Brigadier’s daughter (Muneezae Khan) and Mr. Omar1974 to read very carefully the following article that I wrote for News From Bangladesh. Lt. Colonel (later Brigadier) Z.A. Khan’s role in killing Bengalis is graphically detailed in his own write-up. Lt. Colonel Z.A. Khan was the commander of a commando battalion that was very much involved in killing Bengali army officers and civilians in Comilla, Chittagong, and Chittagong Hill Tracts. He and his commando most certainly did cover much ground during the dark days of 1971. It won’t be difficult, believe me, to find people in Bangladesh who would be most willing to place the Lt. Colonel in the killing fields of 1971. Furthermore, his memoir that is full of incriminatory details would go a long way to prove beyond any shadow of doubt that his hands were stained with Bengali blood as was the case with the majority of 90,000 Pakistani soldiers.``
News From Bangladesh March 22, 1999
READERS OPINION
‘The Way It Was’ - Reading Between The Lines
Khaled S. Ahmed Maryland/USA e-mail: KhaledSA@aol.com
Nightmare came back as I was reading the series ``The Way It Was`` by the Pakistani Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN as he narrated Pakistan`s bloody, brutal and barbarous occupation of Bangladesh during 1971. While he could carefully, deliberately and faithfully hide facts obviously because of his guilt, it is also unfortunate that there is no remorse, regret or penitence in his text, phrase, wording and expressions. Further, in his efforts to hide his guilt subconsciously he mentioned about Hindus on two occasions without much relevance to the other parts of his writings, forgetting that they were in a land of 85% Muslims.
However, Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN deserves credit for revealing facts which can be read between the lines and may become much more damaging evidence of unconscionable, unethical, unlawful and cowardice behaviour of Pakistani Generals organising Genocide in Bangladesh.
Disrespect for International Law
Major General Rao Farman`s instruction to a Colonel to use his discretion in the event Sheikh Mujib would have escaped to Japanese Consul General residence is clear disrespect and disregards for international law. Rao Farman was clearly aware of that law but neither had the guts give straight instruction to violet the right of a diplomat nor the brevity to respect the international law which does not permit any intrusion to any diplomats enclave.
Because, I have intimately known the than Consul General Mr. Takenaka since1957, I could assure the readers that in the event Sheikh Mujib would have decided to escape to his diplomatic enclave it would not have been possible by all the Generals of Pakistan including the President acting together to arrest Sheikh Mujib without killing the diplomat. He would never have dishonoured his country, a country considers it to be much more honourable to admit guilt and ask for forgiveness.
Freedom Fighting
The valiant guard of Sheikh Mujib who pulled a Dah, a long bladed knife, to protect his master was much more courageous than those hiding Generals. He is a shining example of freedom loving Bangladeshis who were not afraid of automatic weapons. It is not that he did not know who is covering whom, presumably only thing he knew that he must fight for the freedom. Perhaps, he is the first freedom fighter responded to March 7th call for freedom movement of Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Whatever ``way`` one attempts to describe the 1971 events of Bangladesh, those who fought for democracy and freedom shall be glorified and those who perpetrated the Genocide shall be cursed.
Disrespecting Democracy
Havildar Major Khan Wazir who gave Sheikh Mujib a resounding slap on his face, was not only a Havildar of Pakistan Army but he was representing Major General Rao Farman, Major General Mitha, Lt. General Tikka, General Hamid and the President General Yahya Khan while Sheikh Mujib, a democratically elected leader, was representing over 120 million people of Pakistan, from whom these Generals were earning their daily wages. I wish those Generals had the sagacity and wisdom to understand from the history of mankind that that resounding slap, will be reverberating all over the land of 65 million freedom loving Bengalis, and will eventually came back as thunderous humiliation of surrendering to the joint command Bangladesh and India within nine months. As long as history of mankind will be there that resounding slap will resonate louder and louder the atrocity, annihilation, brutality, barbarity, butchery, cruelty, carnage, crime, destruction, extermination, horror, killing, murder, outrage and rape committed by Pakistani Generals in Bangladesh.
After 28 years those Pakistan army Generals, officers and soldiers participated in that process must now be much closer to their graves (if not already in) and are in their fifties, sixties and seventies. Many of them are having children and grand children including teenage daughters and granddaughters. Dissemination of information through Internet shall make these innocent girls aware (if they are not already aware) what type of crime their fathers and grand fathers committed in during 1971 occupation of Bangladesh including rape and shall even for a moment try to look deep into their eyes to detect the perpetrators.
For new generations of Pakistanis I must tell that there were certainly some good people in their army but were out numbered by the sinister. During early part of November 1971 one such good, devout and honest 19 year old young Pakistani Militia (member of Para-Military) described his experience in Urdu as - Yea Qauom Nehi Rahe Sakta (this nation can not survive), Etni Jana-Bazi (so many rapes), Etni Beimani (so much betrayal - they were killing the young girls after having kept them in bunkers), Afsos - Yea Qauom Nehi Rahe Sakta (so pitiable - this nation can not survive). It is high time for Pakistanis youths to resound, reverberate and resonate the feeling of that Allah fearing holy young man and compel the perpetrators to ask for forgiveness.
Shivering Butcher Of Baluchistan
Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote ``Just for fun, I told him that I had arrested a man that looked like Mujib and I thought it was Mujib but was not sure. On hearing this General Tikka shot out of his chair like a jack in the box, he called for Brigadier Jilani who had heard me as he was standing just inside the office entrance.``
It is known that when General Sahibjada Yakub did not support GeneralYahya`s plan of Genocide in Bangladesh and he was purged and General Tikka was chosen for the unholy task because of his reputation in ruthlessly suppressing a revolt in Baluchistan and eventually became object of fun for his subordinate Colonel on the very first day of his operation. When any one encourage violating law of the land they should not expect better treatment from their subordinates. To be an object of fun of their subordinate officers is the ultimate reward for the so called powerful Generals of Pakistan. For 65 million Bengalis these Pakistani Generals were no jokers, they were a perpetrators of Genocide.
Where Is The Whole Truth
It was the night of 25th March and the Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote ``I was standing and smoking, a light machine gun, sited at the headquarters perimeter wire, either accidentally or the gunner saw something, fired a short burst. For a while after the burst was fired it was quiet, then every weapon in the cantonment and in the city opened fire. Not to be outdone the anti-craft regiment on the airfield also fired, green and yellow tracer arcs crisscrossed the whole of Dacca, after a few minutes the firing ceased as suddenly as it had started ``.
Did the firing really ceased ? Those who experienced the night knows that the firing continued through out the night, all over the city, killing well over 10,000 unarmed civilians including students and teachers of the Dhaka University. Neither it was started suddenly nor it was an accident, it was planned to surprise and terrorise the unarmed civilian in their bid to take away freedom of 65 million Bengalis. Every weapon in the cantonment and in the city can not open fire without plan and without plan how could they have had lethal weapons in the Dhaka city.
In the event Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN has the opportunity to write his epitaph presumably he may have to decide for - ``man sleeping in this place wanted to tell the whole truth``.
Rayban Glass and Hiding Commander
While the valiant, daring and bold freedom fighter Major Ziaur Rahman had his guts to put on Rayban glasses and two flags flying on his jeep, cowardly, timid and unstable Pakistani commander had locked himself in his room in the Circuit House and was not coming out because he thought if he ``gave any orders and something went wrong he would be sacked.``
Prisoner of War and Geneva Convention
Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote ``..……. Bengali soldiers who were prisoners, officers and Bengali servants of West Pakistani officers were taken and shot ……..The Bengali element of the 3 Commando Battalion who had been locked up in the quarter guard, were also taken out and shot………….
While Major Khaled Musharraf of Bangladesh had the courage, dignity and honour not to shoot his prisoners Lieutenant Colonel Khizar Hayat, Major Sadiq Nawaz and other Pakistanis although he was operating in open paddy field in Brahmanbaria/Sylhet area, Pakistani Generals who had well over 300,000 Sq. mile under their control showed no respect for Geneva Convention in shooting those unarmed prisoners and it was extra-ordinary abuse of human rights done without any remorse and hesitation.
Looting of Bangladesh
Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN wrote- ``A few days after the military action started he (his batman Sowar Abdul Aziz) brought tins of powdered milk for my two-year old younger daughter who had been crying for milk and no milk was available. When my wife asked him where he got the milk from, he told her that soldiers were looting the subedar`s shop and he had taken the milk from there. The Bengali subedar from the Army Clerical Corps had been the personal assistant to the Commilla brigade commanders and after retirement had opened a general store in the Commilla cantonment market from where most officers used to buy items of daily use, his shop was amongst the first to be looted by the troops in Commilla.``
What better justification Pakistanis can have for looting Bangladesh other than for the purpose of feeding two year old ``Joy Bangla`` chanting innocent little angel - daughter of the Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN.
Battle of Belonia - A Major Against A Major General
Battle of Belonia was fought between Major Khaled Musharraf of Bangladesh and Major General Rahim Khan of Pakistan. Major Khaled Musharraf had his forces at a higher elevation when Major General Rahim Khan ordered his forces to march in and until almost entire of his two infantry battalions were wiped out he did not understand his foolishness. By the time commandos started marching Major Khaled Musharraf already decided to withdraw inflicting heavy casualties and therefore Brigadier (Retired) Z.A. KHAN certainly ``found that the commandos had successfully carried out the mission and returned``. After that Battle of Belonia a General in Dhaka cantonment said to have commented about Major Khaled Musharraf - we have trained him so well, we had to use a Major General against that Major.
At the time Pakistani Generals would not move around the country without a large contingent of escort and there was no virtual army movement after dusk, brave, defiant, courageous warrior Major Khaled Musharraf repeatedly came back to Bangladesh soil to launch guerrilla attack on Pakistani occupation army positions until he was seriously wounded and hospitalised. His and other sector commander’s courageous forces operated all over the country including Dhaka city, the Farm Gate incident narrated was one such operation.
It is not surprising that Generals of Pakistan army were having commandos posted as guards at their bedroom doors. It is not surprising that they were terrified to bring their dead back for even an honourable burial ceremony, perhaps Allah never wanted them to get that honour. It is not surprising that they became so much afraid of Mukti Bahini, they were begging of every visitors from Pakistan to pray for their safe return. It is not surprising that their so called ``Tiger`` General Niazi had that blank look to murmur -``kuch karo`` and millions saw that blank look while his gun and badges were taken off at Dhaka`s Race Course Maidan only a few yards away from the place Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman roared to declare independence of Bangladesh - ``Ebarer Sangram, Muktir Sangram, Ebarer Sangram - Shadhinatar Sangram.``
---END---
#64 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 16, 1999 3:10:18 pm
OMAR1974 POSTS DETAILED POINT BY POINT RESPONSE TO ALL Allegations made against Z.A Khan in all posts.
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