Face to face with the Indian Muslims

It is interesting to see Omar being labeled an extremist. He has an interesting way of putting things, but I would like to see exactly what it is that people are finding offensive. That he thinks Muslims are discriminated against in India? Oh there`s a radical thought. Minorities are discriminated against in Pakistan as well; exactly why are some people so touchy? Just some points about the debate, I thought should be made:

1. Most Important: Partition happened, deal with it. It seems most Indians while wholeheartedly accepting the practical reality of Partition, still think of it as bankrupt from an ideological viewpoint. Consequently, any mention of discrimination against Muslims in India is seen as an attack against secularism in India and thus a vindication of the 2 nation theory. Absolute crap! Whether or not India is able to fully enforce secularism (and it is currently not), has no bearing on whether Pakistan was a legitimate cause. I personally hope India does become what they claim to be on paper (ie the world`s largest democracy). The fact remains that Pakistan`s ideology is tied to history not just to an abstract political concept. Thus, it matters not, what you guys are able to establish now...it matters what you were not able establish 60 odd years ago. The Jews would all be Eqyptians today, if the Pharoah hadn`t been such a dickhead..it matters little how progressive Eqypt is today.

2. You would think the Indian secularists themselves would be most concerned about the treatment of Muslims in India today. I am sorry to say but to me, it seems they are much more interested in defending Mother India than they are in ensuring its secularist credentials. And I understand your objections about posters not having visited India; I, too, have not (I would like to go...but the chances for a visa would be remote). That does not mean I cannot have an honest opinion as to the treatment of minorities there. We are living in the information age after all. And from what I have seen on TV (including the abomination at Ayodhya), heard from Indian Muslims myself (and not just one or two), read in the papers (from the likes of Thackeray and Advani)..I have to say I would not feel cormfortable living in India as a Muslim.

3. Last but not least let`s talk about Kosovo. Can anyone explain to me why a country with 200 million Muslims (who supposedly have political power and are not discriminated against) is not actively opposing the genocide in Kosovo by a communist dictator and instead protesting the secular and democratic nations trying to put a stop to it?

Re: Omar, #71

Although I don`t subscribe to your extremist rhetoric, you do make some points which are not based entirely on fantasy. However, Rana is not too subtle, is he? Subtlety is an art form that has either not been mastered by our Indian friends or it has been mastered by them just too well!

The latest irrefutable information. Ice cream melts in the sun. This is due to hindu deviousness. They give ice cream to muslims because the ice cream will melt and muslims will have to buy another cone. Ultimate and irrefutable proof that hindus are out to exploit and destroy muslims. They will stab muslims in the back on little or no pretext.

That is the whole reason why pakistan was formed.

Jawahara:

Yes we all contribute to this hatred. The sad thing about the internet is it provides for this hatred to be propagated and to stick. In this way, the Internet has empowered everybody, including haters. Earlier, you would have to meet a bigot like Omar1974 to encounter his hatred. Now here he is on my computer screen, an unwanted guest. Yes, I know I can turn it off but then I would be turning off other people as well. And consider the medium as well. Earlier, if Omar1974 managed to make it on a newspaper, he would get printed one day and disappear, like a bubble that emerges form the water and disappears. Now here his rantings stay and persist for days on end. I move between a cynicism and a hardening after I read Chowk but I know there are some moral principles that I must adhere to regardless of experiences with the Omars of the world - thats what keeps me from getting sucked into hatred.

I believe your desire to get H out of BHU and M out of AMU is a common secular mistake. Do you want everybody to wear Mao tunics and eat the same food and like the same colors. Your unstated assumption that religion is inherently evil and divisive is plain wrong. Remember materialism is not the answer. Marx said ``Religion is the opium of the masses, the heart of a heartless world, the soul of a soulless world``. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In this frenzy of who is right or wrong, who does what to whom, and who does it first, I find one thing staring at me in the face. We do it. All of us do it and we do it to each other.

I guess I agree with Wasiq on the fact that this religious divisiveness is part of an increasingly dangerous trend in the whole subcontinent.

There is no one side which is totally right or wrong. Muslims and Hindus both start riots. More Muslims in India get killed in these because they are simply outnumbered. If they had a chance they would inflict similar damage too.

In a sadly bizarre way, both groups are really too alike for comfort. If one took away the identifiers of religion their hatred and their actions would be eerily similar at a basic level.

So the solution, if ever there is to be one, is to target the paranoias from both sides and attitudes and actions. A pipe dream, I know.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I would have as many problems if BHU did not admit Muslims and had Muslim teachers as I would AMU not doing the same for Hindus. They are institutions of higher learning. Let`s not, at least, taint them with this seperationist crap. In fact I would like to delete the middle identifier of `H,` and `M` from both. :-)

Just a random gathering of thoughts.

From Letters to the editor Dawn

India`s `secularism`

THIS refers to Mr Mihir Dalal`s letter (Dawn, April 8) which was in response to Mr Feroz Shah Gilani`s letter published earlier under the caption ``Vajpayee`s statement``.

Although Mr Vajpayee is no more at the helms of affairs, yet his statement being representative of the Hindu mind needs to be commented upon to dispel Mr Dalal`s misgivings.

It is indeed correct to say that (officially) India is not a Hindu republic and that it has the second largest Muslim population in the world. But the ground realities bring out a different picture. In fact, Mr Dalal himself exposes the double standards employed by India. If India could condemn use of force against Iraq, then why is it quiet when Kosovo Muslims are driven out of their ancestral homes by brute force used by Serbs. It rather chose to side with the aggressors.

India`s securalism is nothing but a hoax and its reality by now is well known to the world. The plight of Indian Muslims need not be described. Their share in services is negligible (about 4.1%. India boasts of Ghalib, yet Urdu is not taught in schools. Where was India`s securalism at the time of the demolition of Babri mosque?

The atrocities being committed by Indian troops in Kashmir continue unabated and no Indian leader has ever condemned that. Why no voice is raised in India to stop the killing of innocent Kashmiri Muslims? The utterances of Bal Thakeray about Indian tour of Pakistani cricket team and the digging of cricket pitch at Delhi by his zealots clearly brings out the Hindus` hatred of Muslims veiled behind the thin facade of securalism.

I think perhaps Mr Dalal is not aware of the background of the partition of the subcontinent and the emergence of Pakistan. In addition to various other factors, it was basically the Hindu intransigence and intolerance towards Muslims that compelled them to demand Pakistan.

Again, Mr Dalal might not be aware of the fact that Mr M.A. Jinnah - the creator of Pakistan - started his political career by joining the Indian Congress party and he worked wholeheartedly to promote Hindu-Muslim unity which won him the title of the Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity. But, alas, due to Hindu leadership`s narrow-mindedness and prejudice towards Muslims, he was forced to give up his efforts.

Even at the fag end of freedom struggle against the British in 1946, Mr Jinnah accepted a constitutional scheme presented by a cabinet mission sent to India by the British government to resolve the Hindu-Muslim political conflict and to grant freedom to India.

This plan envisaged a loose type of federation which could have kept the subcontinent united. But although the cabinet mission plan was accepted by Mr Jinnah in the larger interest of Muslims and the people of the subcontinent, it was rejected by Nehru for no reasons at all except his peculiar stubbornness and the deep-rooted prejudice against the Muslims. Had the Hindus been a little accommodating towards Muslims, there would have been no Pakistan.

There is no change in the Hindu attitude towards Muslims not-withstanding the recent bus yatra of Mr Vajpayee and the cricket diplomacy.

The nuclear tests in May last year and the recent missile testing by India forced Pakistan to undertake the same exercise. A question can be asked: whom India is afraid of and against whom bomb and missiles would be used? Every Pakistani knows the obvious reply. If Mr Dalal has a different answer, I stand corrected.

MUHAMMAD ZIA KAYANI

Karachi

Rana, do you know that you actually wound up agreeing with the theory/thesis i presented, and that too without knowing it! My point has been that the Indian govt and society treats its Tigers like it treats its Muslims! You have to look for the nuances in my statements in my analysis of Tigers to get it, I`m sorry that you were not yet familiar with my deep sense of irony and off the wall sense of humor. Here`s a clue, I think in analogies and extended syllogisms which i love to strech out to the max. Be more careful next time. Thanks for providing Tiger stats, they only confirm my thesis that Indian Muslims too face cultural genocide, but i gave them a much longer time frame than you give the Tigers!

regards (LOL)

Omar MIrza

RanaRansher:

Yaar, have you actually fallen for the simplistic notion that in the context of THIS ARTICLE, i would actually post something that was ENTIRELY

dedicated to TIGERS? I admit I love tigers, but please for Shiva`s Sake! :- Have you ever heard about the perils of taking what i write just a bit too literally? Who are the tigers i was talking about? Keep in mind my posts are chronological in order, they represent my train of thoughts that should be followed in ascending order. Reinterpret your own post when you realize which billies/tigers i am talking about! And i think considering the extended analogies i have made, i did a darn good job creatively speaking, trying to explain the plight of Indian Muslims, whom i stated clearly are an endangered species (not an ordinary household cat, but rather a tiger, duh:-), under the threat of a `cultural genocide`, just like the tigers!

The tiger ... it now seems i must spell it out, pity, for subtlety is an art that seems lost on Chowk now, is a METAPHOR represtative of the Indian muslims plight in the thesis i have been propounding! Everything should be read only in context to this article [even when i refer to villagers, Central govt etc, avg govt officials, this IS a definitive analysis of Indian domestic communal politics and the situation of Indian Muslims for Sita`s sake!) , and your post becomes even more hilarious once you read the word tiger with this construction on it! :-. I sincerely appreciate your offer, you never know old chap, you may become one of my favorite idolators yet! (Right next to a few Indian actresses) :- We have more in common than you might even begin to imagine right now.

As for Pakistan, it is guilty of letting its own tigers die out (yes, there is a well intended pun there). Wild life preservation does exist, but really the state of affairs is pathetic. Game hunting goes on mainly on city streets. The animals taking pot shots at each other, disturbing the peace. I`m not sure when our tigers will go extinct, right now there are over 10 million still around, they speak Urdu. But one has to give successive govts credit for trying! They have done their best to eliminate the mohajir-tiger community.



Omar Mirza

To complicate matters further, there is a well known Indian Muslim author by the name of Salman Rushdie, he appears to have authored a book known as, `Satanic Verses`, in this book there is a part devoted to the manticore, a half-human-half-tiger creature. Can anyone who has an interest in literature care to explain the symbolism of that to me?

Omar Mirza

It has occured to me that i am perhaps entirely too fond of wild animals after all, having been an animal lover for a long time. While others developed a green thumb gardening in their backyards, i put on green glasses and walked alongside Dorthy.

Omar Mirza

re: Omar ``I wanna see a tiger`` Mirza

Reply on your limited view of multiple polarities later. You have attempted to talk about tigers in India, again I am afraid a subject you seem to know very little about. I admit this is completely unrelated to the context of the article but it is a subject that is very dear to me (tigers ie). Allow me to educate you on the matter.
Tigers were hunted ruhtlessly by Indians and Britishers alike. Hunting by Rajas, Nawabs, Angrez and even the ordinary Indian led to a serious demise in their numbers.
In 1900 the number of tigers in India was 40,000. In 1970 the tiger was given a protected status and 9 wildlife reserves (sanctuaries) were setup. The first all-India census in 1972 suggested that only about 1,800 tigers remained. This led to the establishment of Project Tiger by the Indian Government in 1973, supported by WWF, and numbers gradually rose back up to over 4,000 in the 1980`s, according to the Indian forest Department.
The Cat Specialist Group estimated 2,500 to 3,750 Bengal tigers in India in 1998. These tigers are distributed among 66 protected areas, of which 23 fall under the umbrella of Project Tiger, a program based on total protection of tigers and conservation of selected habitats as reserves managed primarily for tigers.
Another 93-97 tigers live in three protected areas in Nepal, 50-240 tigers are in four protected areas in Bhutan, about 360 tigers live in three protected areas in Bangladesh, and an unknown number of tigers remain in Myanmar. Although the
wild Bengal tiger populations are considered more secure in India than other tiger subspecies found elsewhere in Asia, there exists the potential for rapid demise of wild populations through recently increased levels of poaching and poisoning.
The Indian Government has almost doubled the budget for Project Tiger to US$ 18 million a year in order to increase the area of tiger reserves, provide a strike force for each reserve, and create new posts for scientific officers.
Unfortunately, despite the Indian govt`s efforts (which are just not enough) the tiger is predicted to go extinct by 2025. That is indeed sad for a species that roamed the earth for 6000 years. Project Tiger is the only program of its kind for tigers in the world. The main threat comes from unscrupolous poachers who sell tiger parts in South East Asia.

I live 10KM from one such reserve called Corbett National Park. Set in the base of the Himalayas this park baosts 128 tigers (up from 84 in 1979) and has breath taking views of the Himalyas. You are most welcome to come and stay with me. These wildlife sactuaries are an amazing experience. You have to see it to believe it.
Of course with your green glasses you are not going to see much or what you see may make your stomach turn, cause there are a lot of kafirs around ;-)
BTW when did the tiger get extinct in present day Pakistan. Are there any such programs (govt or private) for wildlife in Pakistan ?

There are those who would argue that there are few virtues in keeping such a magnificient animal as a Tiger caged. Wild animals should be free to roam in their own habitat. Once you take away their freedom, you take away their beauty. It is not a beauty meant to be admired in a cage. I admire wild animals in their habitat far more than poor, caged ones. These can become objects of pity. Animal lovers, including the WWF will join me in demanding their freedom and that they be set loose into the wilds that formed their natural habitat. Free.



Omar Mirza

To top it all off, and add insult to tigers injuries, the Indian board of Tourism continues to claim in glossy magazine spreads in official publications designed to attract foreign tourists to India that the Tigers of India are in fact, shiney happy tigers holding hands. Its rather difficult for a neutral observer to judge how exactly a caged tiger in a zoo feels, but its hard to imagine that a caged tiger, is an entirely happy tiger. Being dependent on the zoo keepers for its food, its also unlikely to take advantage of its constitutionally protected speech to voice its opinions freely as to its treatment. Its certainly Cute/beautiful to look at no doubt, as long as the bars seperate us ...

Omar Mirza

It is therefore safe to say that despite an `official` policy of wildlife preservation and toleration propagated by the Central government,

the individual tigers can hardly be blamed for failing to make the fine distinctions between who exactly is responsible for the sytematic, incremental destruction of their natural habitat, (angry villagers or govt officials) and characterizing the sum total of these offenses as a policy of `cultural genocide` which includes, but is not limited to; Once proud academic institutions in which young tigers were protected in an enclave against general social discrimination, and no hunting parties were allowed on campus. It habitat also includes rapidly denuded forest areas, and dilapidating mosques. These it can be argued are a direct result of human encroahment on its habitat. But perhaps i have read entiely too many fables, and am overly fond of Aesop in particular! Or perhaps indeed i`m on an LSD trip, and therefore have no conception left whatsoever of reality! Confusing tigers and Indian Muslims! Perhaps indeed.

Do we need affirmative action for tigers?

Omar Mirza

Furthermore i`ve never met anyone, not even a citizen of India, who openly espoused the view that Tigers could ever be considered `politically reliable.` In fact, the suggestion itself is utterly ridiculous. You see people just don`t see tigers and humans as being able to live together in harmony. Food for thought indeed.

Omar Mirza

Tigers, I note, have been declared an endangered species on the subcontinent. They were hunted virtually to extinction. I suppose the analogy can be made with Indian Muslims with regard to the separate laws etc, Kashmir status. But one should also look at things from the point of view of the poor tiger. Surrounded completely by increasing Urban development, and fanatical villagers chanting the 0BJP will mount your hide and head on a wall, as a trophy. The tiger is under a lot of pressure. Hungry tigers have also been known to carry off small unwary children playing outside the village. This had led to outrage among villagers and a campaign at least at a local level to hunt down and kill the remaining tigers. The Central government wants to preserve the last few remaining tigers, after all, they too are a part of India’s heritage, and a boon to tourism. However, agents of the central government are sympathetic to the villager’s plight, being human after all, and tend to look the other way when tigers get killed. But one can appreciate the sentiments of the outraged villagers as well. Tigers don’t have it easy by any means, living as they do in the wilds, straying onto ever most densely populated areas, living cheek to jowl with humanity. Will India preserve its last few remaining tigers? That is the question. Will India’s remaining tigers, pushed to the wall, find it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or take claws against a sea of Hindu majorities, and by opposing, so end their wretched plight? My money is not on the tigers. Has anyone actually seen what a tiger can do to an individual human being? Do you know what its like to be eaten alive by a hungry tiger? Torn to pieces? What will India feed its tigers? Will it feed them, or will they be forced to scavenge among the followers of the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena, and VHP, and those who do not even belong to their various village self-protection groups? Last time I checked, Tigers really couldn’t tell the difference between one human political affiliation or another. They’re just hungry, that’s all, and hungry tigers don’t really discriminate. That is actually a human trait. Tigers willingly attack and eat anyone they come across. Now of course a caged tiger in a Zoo exhibit is something one even takes one’s children to see for a treat. But living with a tiger, that’s an entirely different proposition. Would you invite a tiger into your home to live with you? Would you?

Omar Mirza