Face to face with the Indian Muslims

Re: Omar letter # infinite

Omar Bhai, first of all you identify Indian

muslims as ``invaders`` and thereby do them a grave

injustice. Furthermore you join the author in

condemning the marginalization of this community

in India, but also think of all attempts to

assimilate them into the mainstream as ``Hindu

domination``. Thus you would like ``muslim``

institutions like the AMU to remain purely muslim

with no Hindu contamination, but also at the same

time condemn the fact that muslims live in

ghettos in India. What do you want? In fact your

whole analysis rests on the assumption that

muslims are, were and should always remain above

mainstream society, read ``hindu society``. They

can never expect to gain by condescending to

become active members of that society. That to me

is pure bigotry. But then coming from a country

which was created on that foundation, what else

can one expect from you?

And talking about secularism, if Indians did not

really believe in it, then why didn`t we name our

country the ``hindu republic of India`` in 1947

itself? How is it that still no party, not even

the BJP, even proposes such a change? What could

we hope to gain by hiding out true colours? That

is not to say that Indian secularism is perfect.

It isn`t. But at the same time it is very much

alive and becoming more vibrant all the time.

Oh by the way, there is no attempt to force

hindus teachers down the throats of unwilling

muslim students. REligious institutions are

allowed under the Indian constitution: St

Stephens College, the premier Indian college, is

one such example.

Most pressing question:

How do we get this guy Omar1974 to shut up?

In general, the following points need to be made:

1. The status of Muslims and Muslim community should be reflected in things like average income, number of mosques, their self-perception of Hindu majority threats, overall employment etc. - in other words measures that reflect the totality of their community, not measures that reflect the success of individuals.

2. The success of high-profile Muslims can at best be used as supporting arguments for the status of Muslims, it certainly does not ``prove`` that everything is OK with the Muslim community.

3. There are wide variations of the conditions of Muslims as well and some idea of the dispersion should also be attempted. For example how does a Kerala Muslim do vs a Bengali Muslim vs a Delhi Muslim vs a Kashmiri Muslim. How does an upper class Muslim feel etc?

Many of us who interact with Indian Muslims but are not Muslims ourseleves may make assumptions about how Indian Muslims feel. We need to have a dialogue and hear them out in their own words. That is why it is useful to hear Iconoclast and Jawahara. But can we please get Omar Mirza to shut up? Maybe we can give him a 2000 word limit per topic.

Observation:

The slave is more loyal than the master to his own chains and the institution of slavery itself.

Such is the very plight of Indian Muslims today.

They seek nothing less than to assuage the religious majority that they pose no threat of internal subversion. The alternative to Secularism and Congress is communal violence and religiously fractured politics, the like of which would not only tear India apart, but make 1947 look like a picnic on a bright and clear Sunday morning. This is what really lies simmering under the surface of `secular` India. This is India`s greatest fear. It may come to pass one day, sooner than anyone imagines. Well, Hindu Rivivalist parties advocating a common national identity based on a shared religion are here. They have reached the political center. Soon enough, sectarian politics will reach the Muslims of India as they fight back. This is the very real reason why Indian muslims have been apologists for their very existence. But they are being forced slowly into a corner. And when trapped with their backs to the wall, even a cat knows how to fight back and take car of a dog, if it comes to that. When this happens i`ll be watching to see if the cat has been declawed in the last 53+ years or not. Don`t be fooled, this no ordinary household cat, its a tiger, and when Hindu India pulls its tail one time too many, well I think ... i`ll be watching on CNN this display by the citizens of `Secular` India.

OMAR MIRZA

PLEASE READ MY POSTS IN ASCENDING ORDER TO UNDERSTAND MY THESIS BETTER (starting after #11)

(Thinking aloud) I really wonder how, ‘politically reliable’ the Indian establishment really considers the Muslims of India. After all, these are the very same people who cheer visiting Pakistani cricket teams; the very people who voted 84% in favor of the breakup of ‘Akhand Bharat’ in 1947. I wonder, given the

historical choice on which side they would prefer to fight on, if the question was a choice between Babar and Ibrahim Lodhi. Will Hindu Indians ever really be able to know for sure? In such a battle, neutrality means only that Babar wins and India is subject to foreign occupation for centuries. Iconoclast has asked publicly for Pakis (myself) to do them the ‘favor’ of leaving them alone, caught as they are between a rock and a hard place, trying to justify their very existence to their Christian and Hindu countrymen, everyday trying to convince them that they are not, ‘stooges’ of Pakistan. Amazing that this possibility remains after 53 years of such faithful service and loyalty (it is a classic case of the yes boss, We boss house-negro slave mentality on display) by the likes of Abdul Kalam and the acclaimed 1965 muslim Indian war hero. Even after this, questions remain about their loyalty, so much that they feel it necessary to justify their very existence as Indian citizens. This is why Indian muslims feel they must fervently come out in favor of secular politics, even more than Hindus etc, to PROVE their loyalty. They FEEL they still have to PROVE something in order to gain complete acceptance, without realizing its utter futility. Essentially, Iconoclast has conceded the truth already. His psychological state I was able to read even thru cyberspace. His plaintive bleating moved me. His ever move, I anticipated. He truly hates me I suppose for putting this sensitive issue under a microscope. All this moved me deeply to expose the truth about the wretched plight of Indian muslims today. And this article really provides the perfect forum for just this discussion.

OMAR MIRZA

And to help balance things in your favour, only because i`m a real sport, i`ll even give you a few Indian versions of Mir Jaffar to help Ibrahim Lodhi at Pannipat.:)

Omar Mirza

By the way, in case some of you think accusing me of bigotry will suffice to defeat any of my arguments, you are sorely mistaken. Make no mistake, this is the most serious attack on India since the Battle of Pannipat, when Babar routed Ibrahim Lodhi. The odds are probably the same. 1:4 in manpower. You have your war elephants, but I have my cannon.:)

OMAR MIRZA

errata/correction

The phrase (as should be apparent which one)

should read /`inculcation into the mystical, secret rituals of Indianism` (envision snake charmers and Indian temples as the doorway to full social acceptence)

This may in fact SOUND quite silly, but its an idea imperfectly conveyed that i am attempting to communicate. Language, a human invention, has its limitations.

OMAR MIRZA

The Choices confronting Indian Muslims today are between the devil and the deep blue sea.

It was to escape exactly these choices that the

2 nation theory was proposed by the All India Muslim League. The life rafts on board were never enough to go around, and knowing this, even then 84% of Indian muslims voted for a seperate homeland for the muslims, and India today confronts those left aboard the Titanic/(read India) as it slowly sinks to the bottom of the sea.



You cannot run, you cannot hide. I will relentlessly pursue you, the self declared and self deluded secularists and pluralists of India.

There is no-where you can escape to. The buck stops here on your hypocricy of 53+ years and going strong, with a dose of reality. I know you will not like to disapoint me. I await your pleasure. Whenever you`re ready.

OMAR MIRZA

Reply: Temporal - reply no 5

Jaundiced ? my reply. Would you care to point out how and why ? I did agree that religious persecution by fundamentalist Hindus do exist.

iconoclast

Re: Clarification of idea expressed below

The Mulsims of India today are where the blacks of America were in the 60s in terms of social acceptance and political situation, and where the blacks of the 1980s in America were in terms of economic position. Some have achieved success, they are lauded for it. Most live in ghettos, and the indexes of their quality of life vary significantly from those of the majority. The comparision is the same in India for its declining (morally, economically etc) Muslim community. Except, that today, the blacks are being uplifted slowly and incorporated into society. The Muslims of India face much bleaker prospects, in their case, the graph is being revised downwards slowly but perceptively. Like the blacks of America, who vote predominantly (for lack of another real alternative) for the Democratic party, the Muslims of India vote for Congress and Secularism, if they vote at all. The other choice is the Replublican party, or the BJP/RSS/Shiva Sena group. Some blacks like a few Muslims have actually joined both the BJP and the Republican party in the hope of reforming it. But like it or not the `core` constituency of these group is its real vote bank, not blacks or Indian muslims respectively.

Indian Congress Secularism offers the lure of complete integration to Indian Muslims, just like joining the Republican party and adopting conservative views offers the same mirage to blacks in America. Unfortunately, neither actually leads to access to either exclusive golf courses/read full social acceptance or, the mystical rites of Indianism that the majority is privy to/read complete social acceptance. (this phrase is inadequately expressed, yet conveys the essense/kernal of an idea).

No idea is worth anything until it has been relentlessly exposed to criticism, comment, rebuttal and attempted refutation. I expect no less ladies and gentleman from you, than i have done with notions of Indian Secularism and plurality, that you should rise and do to my ideas, which are only a theory, nothing more, but quite an interesting one, i think, not entirely without basis or support in fact. Food for thought indeed!



OMAR MIRZA

`Give me an inch, and another inch, and then a few more, then a yard, soon enough, i`ll have it all.`

A Sage

This is the true nature and goal of Indian Secularism, to further the goals of the VHP, RSS, Shiv Sena and other core Indian political groups.

The religious minorities have fallen into this carefully concealed and baited trap. They are losing their identity with every passing day.

OMAR MIRZA

An observation:

It is not possible for a country to PHYSICALLY EXTERMINATE 120+ million people internally.

OMAR MIRZA

As I write these words, and you read them, the incremental, systematic, invidious policies of the Indian government at a variety of levels, aimed at the eventual assimilation, and cultural genocide of India’s Once Proud Muslim Community, continue unabated on a daily basis. Its is in the very nature of these policies that few single acts taken alone, seemingly amount to the whole of my argument. The birth pangs of Indian Independence in 1947 provide a clue to understanding the true face of ‘Secular’ India, for under the facade on display for the world at large, is the real and true face, and dual nature of India. Despite seemingly cogent, and actually facile arguments presented thus far, and always when this debate occurs, those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear are not entirely oblivious to the truth. Neither, are these people as it so happens, in the pay of the Indian government to spread its propaganda and lies on the internet.(grin) Perhaps I am being just a trifle harsh but sometimes it is necessary in order to convey a point, and make it stand out. I do not actually mean to imply personal knowledge of such actions to which the Indian government and intelligence agencies may well have deputed certain individuals. (bigger grin, LOL)

Nonetheless, the realities this brave article confronts head on represent the plight of the increasingly economically, politically, and religiously marginalized Moslem Community in India. The final step of conversion/reconversion may take a long time, but sight of this eventual goal has never been lost. It is to destroy the separate Identity of Indian Muslims in a methodical, incremental, systematic, insidious manner. That the sum of the parts amounts to the whole, is the basis for the paradigm I present, and the author of this piece implicitly implies the same, with only a few more logical leaps required in this context to arrive at this conclusion, astounding and extreme on its face that it may appear. India has a proud record of Assimilating Invaders. It is not for nothing. They are cultural master practicioners at this art. Neither is the cultural caricature of the stereotype of the ‘cunning, duplicitous moneylender/businessman Hindu’, entirely without basis in some cultural realities. Having dealt with Hindu businessmen I have some first hand impressions of their methods and trustworthiness. They are a world apart from example from Keralite Christian Indian Businessmen in honesty and forthrightness.

But I digress from my paradigm, where was

I? Ah, yes, There is never a complete cultural confrontation with the ‘other’ group, like a fatal car accident, but rather, a gradual and insidious encroachment on the identity of culturally homogenous, yet distinctly Non-Hindu Communities. The process is one which lends itself to analysis at a macro level, rather than simply the micro level, although it is these micro incidents that make up a macro argument. A classic example of micro-obscurity that is preached by defenders of Indian Secularism and pluralist society is the naming of prominent members of the minority community that is targeted as a whole for assimilation by pointing to their success in society. I might just as well point to the movie, ‘The Sound of Music’, and say that it is obvious that Nazis appreciated Jewish Cultural Contributions in the 1930 & 1940s by virtue of the story portrayed of the Jewish family asked to perform for them. They were appluaded for their efforts afterall by the Nazis. This is tokenism, and a veil behind which one must peer to discern truth and substance. Doubtless my detractors will point to the separate Muslim family laws, status, Constitutionally guaranteed Kashmiri Autonomy, but this is precisely the veil behind which they hide, when ground realities such as those this article exposes belie their convictions of what India represents. What it claims to represent is not always what it actually represents. Analysis must necessarily be more than superficial or skin deep. We must scratch beneath the surface and unearth the truth. And if we are unable to unearth any `truth,` we must at least examine the possibility that more than one truth exists. Life, and the world are not Unidimensional, perhaps too, neither is India.



Omar Mirza

P.S; A final interesting observation

The Swatstikas painted liberally inside Indian temples represent a parallel conception of society with the German desire for racial Aryan purity, with an Indian ideal of religious purity.

The Origin afterall, was the same as is well known. The symbol has just been adapted to India, as all invaders cultures are assimilated, a potent reminder to the Muslim community of self-deluded Secularists that all is not well or what it seems in their Never-Never land, just because the captain of the Indian cricket team is a Muslim.

The Myth of Indian tolerance, Secularism, democracy and plurality propagated by certain individuals is a story they should best address to the following, in all sincerity (a few of the victims of ‘secular’ India);

1) The Survivors of 1947 communal massacres at the time of independence that saw a million people butchered, untold raped and tortured mercilessly.

2) Also the generation which has followed those survivors who saw their families butchered mercilessly with their own eyes, and felt their parents pain and suffering

3) The Sikh community that saw well over 3,000 of its members massacred after the Assassination of Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards in 1984, which incidently followed the Storming of the Golden Temple.

4) The Sikh community in the Punjab that saw and personally suffered the indiscriminate violence of the campaign against Khalistan which led to tens of thousands killed.

5) The Moslem Indian Community that saw the 16th century Babri Masjib demolished with their own eyes, and the buildup of Ram Mandir in its stead (the work is almost finished on the pillars, stone work etc ready to be put in place, the artisans have done a fine job. I commend their work. It is indeed fit now for the worship of human beings.

5) The Muslim community in Bombay, especially those who suffered in the Bombay Communal riots of 1992-93, and realized the true nature of the fragility of their existence in the polity known as ‘Secular’ India.

6) As this article notes, discrimination is WIDESPREAD against Muslims in India. Merely

pointing out the names of a select few token few Muslims who have succeeded (after all, there is a population of over 120+ millions, how could a few talented individuals NOT make it against the

odds) is not a defense against discrimination or the continual encroachment of hitherto private and sacrosanct institutions, such as Aligarh University. This personally and particularly revulses me as i am familiar with what this institution once was and stood for. It was center of Muslim learning in India, founded I believe by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan if my recollection serves me rightly. The presence of BJP student supporters is only indicative as to a clue as to WHY Indian Muslims left India for Pakistan. This is nothing but the very deliberate blasphemy of the roots of Indian Muslim identity and, those who are recent converts of the last 50 years to Islam in India, are perhaps unable to understand this or the significance of this brazen Hindu highway robbery of muslim Indian culture`s core identity. Aligharh old boys and old girls associations in Pakistan I think would well agree with me in expressing outrage, but be glad they were not still in India, to live to see this day dawn. It is in fact WHY they left in the first place. They knew it was coming. They preferred to walk with their heads held high, and so that I suppose their children would never have to suffer religious discrimination as a minority in India dominated by Hindu Communalists.

7) A Curious incident indicative of Indian mentalities and conditions, in the making of the movie Bombay, about the Bombay riots, that belies the truth presented in this excellent article. Shiv Sena leader Bal Thackray was consulted on the production and final editing of Bombay, and where he voiced objections to scenes, the script was changed and reedited. Muslim Community leaders got no such veto as he exercised, or such deferential treatment. The riots portrayed Muslims more negatively than Hindus in the movie, this is an allegation Indian Muslims themselves made.

8) The wife of the Australian missionary and their 2 young sons who were burned alive in their

van, in 1998-99 while on a mission to help India’s poorest in the North. If you can convince her alone, that India is both Secular, and tolerant, and democratic and pluralistic as a society, then I will speak out no more against the myth of a Secular tolerant India.

As for me personally, I think the truth is rather too bitter for self-exiles from the faraway Indian shores who have it seems, conjured up their own mythology, living in secular, tolerant countries, that India TOO can BE ALL THAT. And particularly those Sikhs, Kashmiris and generally Indian Muslims who continue to live this fantasy existence, oblivious to their existence in bondage (and I do mean this in Biblical terms). Those in bondage who display the classic slave mentality of groveling servitude must be confronted with a Mirror. I hold it up to their faces, and to India’s, that they may no longer escape the truth, warts, freckles,

wrinkles, unseemly nose hairs sticking out, and all. It is an ugly truth, that Indian intellectuals are never comfortable or willing to face up to or admit to. The other (and true) face of India.



OMAR MIRZA

(One who stands by his views should have the courage to not only proclaim them to the world, but also to sign his name to them, my personal philosophy)

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Satyavadi and Reply #3

You made your point quite well except for:

`` * Farooq Abdullah : A respected Kasmiri fellow in Indian polity know for his patriotism``

No chuckle but laughter.

Ras