Loyal to Pakistan? Why?
Ahsan Ahmed July 2, 1999
#122 Posted by mayhem on July 15, 1999 12:35:19 am
Saaf_go:
I understand what you mean...but for the ``maan ki gali`` part, I feel that what makes a person great is not that he fights back, but has the sense and courage not to fight back. This means listen to what people say, do something about it and then laugh at the fool who left his country for another. But until pakistani`s are willing to help themselves, I for one, cannot help them.
I understand what you mean...but for the ``maan ki gali`` part, I feel that what makes a person great is not that he fights back, but has the sense and courage not to fight back. This means listen to what people say, do something about it and then laugh at the fool who left his country for another. But until pakistani`s are willing to help themselves, I for one, cannot help them.
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#121 Posted by unknown on July 15, 1999 12:35:19 am
Re Fataquie:
I am touched by your reply..which part of Pakistan are you from?
I am touched by your reply..which part of Pakistan are you from?
#120 Posted by unknown on July 15, 1999 12:35:19 am
Re Fataquie:
I am touched by your reply..which part of Pakistan are you from?
I am touched by your reply..which part of Pakistan are you from?
#119 Posted by mayhem on July 15, 1999 12:35:19 am
Salman, thanks that clarifies things a lot...no I don`t listen to Pink Floyd...I live in 1999, not in the 1980`s.
#118 Posted by fataquie on July 14, 1999 5:57:07 pm
Re: mayhem
First of all, I`d like to appreciate what you and people like you have done for the country on your own. I may not have done even 1% of what you have done, and all I want to say ``Don`t give up``. There are many people in Pakistan who want to do something, just like you did, and there are many students over here in America, just like me, who are studying and want to do something about the situation over there after finishing education.
As far as my contribution, I realize it is nothing compared to yours. I come from a business familiy and many people from my family (khandan) came to the US to study, instead they got married and some stayed and some went back home. And nobody in my family was interested in education (and I am not proud of it) because of security from business. But I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to change their attitude. I got the highest % marks from my school in 10th grade, studied at Adamjee just because of sheer determination and hard work and I also became the frist engineer from my community or biradiri and also the first person from my community who came to the US and actually finished engineering (Bachelors). And now the attitude has changed in my family. They think that if I could do it, they can do it too. My younger brother, who hated school, is studying hard for his MCSE. To many it may not be a contribution at all, but to me if I can change the attitude of even one person, I`ll be happy.
And my point is: there are many people like ``mayhem`` who want to change the situation but it should be remembered that these changes cannot happen overnight and those of us who want to bring changes should not give up and should keep trying hard. And also ``mayhem`` what I have found is that making schools and creating jobs is hard but the hardest part is making people realize the importance of education and working. That is, making children whose parents are not educated realize how important education is and urging the people to work who are not willing to work. I think it`s more about changing the attitude of the people. I have always believed that nothing is impossible. If people of this country, US, have elevated to heights, I think so can we.
And to ``mayhem`` as far as putting my dollars in Pakistani economy, I am barely meeting my educational costs, but Inshallah, when I am able to do something, I won`t hesitate. And as far as getting a $45K job, I am not studying to make money (I know I may sound stupid to many), and if money was my priority, I`d have joined my father`s business and living a wonderful life right now.
And to ``mayhem`` my suggestion is don`t give up and like the Vital Signs said: ``haaro gay tub hi tum ko maza aai ga jeet ka``.
I may sound very unreasonable to you but I have been thinking about a plan that would put my contribution to work while I am still studying and I was afraid of being laughed at for sharing my sincere plan and thoughts. We can still make changes happen and I would appreciate your response in that. Then I`d give you the plan via e-mail.
First of all, I`d like to appreciate what you and people like you have done for the country on your own. I may not have done even 1% of what you have done, and all I want to say ``Don`t give up``. There are many people in Pakistan who want to do something, just like you did, and there are many students over here in America, just like me, who are studying and want to do something about the situation over there after finishing education.
As far as my contribution, I realize it is nothing compared to yours. I come from a business familiy and many people from my family (khandan) came to the US to study, instead they got married and some stayed and some went back home. And nobody in my family was interested in education (and I am not proud of it) because of security from business. But I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to change their attitude. I got the highest % marks from my school in 10th grade, studied at Adamjee just because of sheer determination and hard work and I also became the frist engineer from my community or biradiri and also the first person from my community who came to the US and actually finished engineering (Bachelors). And now the attitude has changed in my family. They think that if I could do it, they can do it too. My younger brother, who hated school, is studying hard for his MCSE. To many it may not be a contribution at all, but to me if I can change the attitude of even one person, I`ll be happy.
And my point is: there are many people like ``mayhem`` who want to change the situation but it should be remembered that these changes cannot happen overnight and those of us who want to bring changes should not give up and should keep trying hard. And also ``mayhem`` what I have found is that making schools and creating jobs is hard but the hardest part is making people realize the importance of education and working. That is, making children whose parents are not educated realize how important education is and urging the people to work who are not willing to work. I think it`s more about changing the attitude of the people. I have always believed that nothing is impossible. If people of this country, US, have elevated to heights, I think so can we.
And to ``mayhem`` as far as putting my dollars in Pakistani economy, I am barely meeting my educational costs, but Inshallah, when I am able to do something, I won`t hesitate. And as far as getting a $45K job, I am not studying to make money (I know I may sound stupid to many), and if money was my priority, I`d have joined my father`s business and living a wonderful life right now.
And to ``mayhem`` my suggestion is don`t give up and like the Vital Signs said: ``haaro gay tub hi tum ko maza aai ga jeet ka``.
I may sound very unreasonable to you but I have been thinking about a plan that would put my contribution to work while I am still studying and I was afraid of being laughed at for sharing my sincere plan and thoughts. We can still make changes happen and I would appreciate your response in that. Then I`d give you the plan via e-mail.
#117 Posted by saaf-go on July 14, 1999 2:29:40 pm
Re: Mayhem, Slink, Ferozk
I hope you are not endorsing `Rot in the filth that is Pakistan`
I am not endorsing death threats either.
Chowk is a result of the work of people who care about Pakistan – no matter where they choose to live. We love pakistan, the idea, the community. We do not have any delusion about the state of the country and we are not from `Allah is also pakistani` school of thought but when someone, who so intentionally want to disown, pakistan lumps all good and bad into `filth`, it brings out in me the child who cannot tolerate `MaaN Ki Gaali`.
I hope you are not endorsing `Rot in the filth that is Pakistan`
I am not endorsing death threats either.
Chowk is a result of the work of people who care about Pakistan – no matter where they choose to live. We love pakistan, the idea, the community. We do not have any delusion about the state of the country and we are not from `Allah is also pakistani` school of thought but when someone, who so intentionally want to disown, pakistan lumps all good and bad into `filth`, it brings out in me the child who cannot tolerate `MaaN Ki Gaali`.
#116 Posted by Salman_Gorsi on July 14, 1999 2:29:40 pm
......perhaps I meant that in response to all the slinging and sarcasm and sneering,I might as well become/behave a wall....like when u hit it with a ball,no matter how hard....it comes back with more or less the same force.......
however if u want that to change, u should either bring down the wall or remake it....dont just pelt stones at it.......get my drift????
by wall i may mean Pakistan or I may mean my state of mind or anyone else`s for that matter, who feels like pakistan!
by the way have u ever heard``PINK FLOYD``
however if u want that to change, u should either bring down the wall or remake it....dont just pelt stones at it.......get my drift????
by wall i may mean Pakistan or I may mean my state of mind or anyone else`s for that matter, who feels like pakistan!
by the way have u ever heard``PINK FLOYD``
#115 Posted by sharayar on July 14, 1999 2:29:40 pm
mayhem
plz read my all replies and all those who have similar views,maybe they will make sense......and read reply#112 by the author too......
plz read my all replies and all those who have similar views,maybe they will make sense......and read reply#112 by the author too......
#114 Posted by mayhem on July 14, 1999 12:12:15 am
Salman Goursi, you do not make any sense...``rebound of a wall``...what the hell is that supposed to mean, in the forum context...kindly clarify...I think I might be obtuse here...but that makes no sense to me whatsoever..
#113 Posted by mayhem on July 13, 1999 8:16:09 pm
If ya`ll are such haters, and love Pakistan so much, go do something about it...Fatique...Mr. ``with the wannabe prestigious Oklahoma (sup?) address`` why don`t you go pump your dollars in the Pakistani economy instead of boosting some small town in Oklahoma`s (sup wit Norman, holmes...sup with a hick place...no wonder you are so closed minded)...Instead of going to a US school, go to a Pakistani one. Start a business there, try getting a job there, why are you here...go help your beloved Pakistan...but you are too scared to arn`t you...you like the security that you have here...probably majoring in EE or CS knowing that you will get a job that pays around $45K a year...can you ever get that in Pakistan right out of college...no you can`t right? What are you doing in the States? GO BACK fool and do something...put your dollars in the economy we have there, create jobs, feed people, donate money...but no...you will never do that...sheesh get a life.
In Dawn today, I read that the politicians are literally cussing out Nawaz Sharif cuz he wants peace...what the hell is wrong with these people. I have Pakistani friends who have done more than I have for Pakistan...they have raised money...put a super computer in Punjab University-the first in the nation-something 24 year olds could do, but not the government. They have built free schools and donate funding for 12 schools in Peshawar through the Alif Laila Foundation...they all did their part...and when they went to the govt with reccomendations and with a well thought out plan to put schools in all the rural areas...they got laughed at...they had a track record and did all they could do...they couldn`t educate the country with their own funds like they were doing...what do you make of a country which won`t let people who want to help help, yes they hate Paksitan just as much as I do, but like it or not thats where we are from and we always will be from there...but still who says we can`t start out fresh in a new country just like the ``muhajirs`` did after Partition.
In Dawn today, I read that the politicians are literally cussing out Nawaz Sharif cuz he wants peace...what the hell is wrong with these people. I have Pakistani friends who have done more than I have for Pakistan...they have raised money...put a super computer in Punjab University-the first in the nation-something 24 year olds could do, but not the government. They have built free schools and donate funding for 12 schools in Peshawar through the Alif Laila Foundation...they all did their part...and when they went to the govt with reccomendations and with a well thought out plan to put schools in all the rural areas...they got laughed at...they had a track record and did all they could do...they couldn`t educate the country with their own funds like they were doing...what do you make of a country which won`t let people who want to help help, yes they hate Paksitan just as much as I do, but like it or not thats where we are from and we always will be from there...but still who says we can`t start out fresh in a new country just like the ``muhajirs`` did after Partition.
#112 Posted by mayhem on July 13, 1999 8:16:09 pm
If ya`ll are such haters, and love Pakistan so much, go do something about it...Fatique...Mr. ``with the wannabe prestigious Oklahoma (sup?) address`` why don`t you go pump your dollars in the Pakistani economy instead of boosting some small town in Oklahoma`s (sup wit Norman, holmes...sup with a hick place...no wonder you are so closed minded)...Instead of going to a US school, go to a Pakistani one. Start a business there, try getting a job there, why are you here...go help your beloved Pakistan...but you are too scared to arn`t you...you like the security that you have here...probably majoring in EE or CS knowing that you will get a job that pays around $45K a year...can you ever get that in Pakistan right out of college...no you can`t right? What are you doing in the States? GO BACK fool and do something...put your dollars in the economy we have there, create jobs, feed people, donate money...but no...you will never do that...sheesh get a life.
In Dawn today, I read that the politicians are literally cussing out Nawaz Sharif cuz he wants peace...what the hell is wrong with these people. I have Pakistani friends who have done more than I have for Pakistan...they have raised money...put a super computer in Punjab University-the first in the nation-something 24 year olds could do, but not the government. They have built free schools and donate funding for 12 schools in Peshawar through the Alif Laila Foundation...they all did their part...and when they went to the govt with reccomendations and with a well thought out plan to put schools in all the rural areas...they got laughed at...they had a track record and did all they could do...they couldn`t educate the country with their own funds like they were doing...what do you make of a country which won`t let people who want to help help, yes they hate Paksitan just as much as I do, but like it or not thats where we are from and we always will be from there...but still who says we can`t start out fresh in a new country just like the ``muhajirs`` did after Partition.
In Dawn today, I read that the politicians are literally cussing out Nawaz Sharif cuz he wants peace...what the hell is wrong with these people. I have Pakistani friends who have done more than I have for Pakistan...they have raised money...put a super computer in Punjab University-the first in the nation-something 24 year olds could do, but not the government. They have built free schools and donate funding for 12 schools in Peshawar through the Alif Laila Foundation...they all did their part...and when they went to the govt with reccomendations and with a well thought out plan to put schools in all the rural areas...they got laughed at...they had a track record and did all they could do...they couldn`t educate the country with their own funds like they were doing...what do you make of a country which won`t let people who want to help help, yes they hate Paksitan just as much as I do, but like it or not thats where we are from and we always will be from there...but still who says we can`t start out fresh in a new country just like the ``muhajirs`` did after Partition.
#111 Posted by Salman_Gorsi on July 13, 1999 8:16:09 pm
re:mayhem #105
Yes, I am afraid I can be stubborn and ``obtuse`` when somebody cusses mu motherland......
we have every right to beocme a wall.....and rebound with full force
Yes, I am afraid I can be stubborn and ``obtuse`` when somebody cusses mu motherland......
we have every right to beocme a wall.....and rebound with full force
#110 Posted by aahmed on July 13, 1999 8:16:09 pm
Well well, thanks for the responses. I don`t feel that I have to say much, MAYHEM has, in a very articulate way, said pretty much what I`ve wanted to say. I would also like to thank the person who pointed out the differences between the FBI and the ISI, couldn`t have said it better myself.
And then there are always some people who can`t get beyond the pina coladas and the beach. Why is it anyone`s business how I choose to enjoy MY life, you self righteous jack asses. You have no right to tell me how I should live my life, but you have the audacity to continue telling me how I should have fun. Please, if you don`t have anything important to say, shut up and don`t bother posting anything, no matter how much you tell me how to live my life, it ain`t gonna change anything. This is precisely why I wrote the article in the first place, to let you self righteous jack asses know that your sarcasm or attitude towards others` lives don`t make a difference, no one cares how you think they should live their lives.
And to all of you proud pakistanis, go to the following web site and read a report from Amnesty International as well as a profile by the United States Department of State, then tell me that Pakistan is an Islamic state.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/5712/dos.doc
and
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/5712/amnesty.doc
And then there are always some people who can`t get beyond the pina coladas and the beach. Why is it anyone`s business how I choose to enjoy MY life, you self righteous jack asses. You have no right to tell me how I should live my life, but you have the audacity to continue telling me how I should have fun. Please, if you don`t have anything important to say, shut up and don`t bother posting anything, no matter how much you tell me how to live my life, it ain`t gonna change anything. This is precisely why I wrote the article in the first place, to let you self righteous jack asses know that your sarcasm or attitude towards others` lives don`t make a difference, no one cares how you think they should live their lives.
And to all of you proud pakistanis, go to the following web site and read a report from Amnesty International as well as a profile by the United States Department of State, then tell me that Pakistan is an Islamic state.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/5712/dos.doc
and
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/5712/amnesty.doc
#109 Posted by mayhem on July 13, 1999 8:16:09 pm
Ferozk you are 100% right, man o man...you let that one rip didn`t you..peace...
Xeena, my wannabe warrior princess...what you are not getting is that having lived in Pakistan and knowing it is so bad is the reason why people want out...there is nothing you can do that is appreciated. The guy hasn`t lived there cuz he has heard the horror stories...only a fool after hearing those stories would want to put himself in jeapordy...and Ahsan is educated...and he wouldn`t want to do it.
I had a certain amount of love for the nation, that I as a fool initially went back...but got screwed by the country...if you read my previous replies you would no how...
The country`s people, starting with you and Zeemax need to start opening theirr minds.
Xeena, my wannabe warrior princess...what you are not getting is that having lived in Pakistan and knowing it is so bad is the reason why people want out...there is nothing you can do that is appreciated. The guy hasn`t lived there cuz he has heard the horror stories...only a fool after hearing those stories would want to put himself in jeapordy...and Ahsan is educated...and he wouldn`t want to do it.
I had a certain amount of love for the nation, that I as a fool initially went back...but got screwed by the country...if you read my previous replies you would no how...
The country`s people, starting with you and Zeemax need to start opening theirr minds.
#108 Posted by ferozk on July 13, 1999 3:20:21 pm
Re: fataquie
Thanks for sharing your address with us. Now, could you please tell us what we are supposed to do with it?
Of course, you have nothing to fear from the FBI, because unlike the ISI, the FBI does operate the under the presumption of innocent till proven guilty and it does offer the accused the due process of the law and it is has to answer for its actions. Friend, you have more rights as a non-citizen in this country than you do in your own country; a country, which seems intent to deny you all of your basic rights.
The fact that you live in this country pre-supposes the fact that you`re an intelligent person and because of that it begs the question why are you so intent on following Dr. Schultz`s advice when it comes to Pakistan: see no evil, hear no evil and think no evil.
Thanks for sharing your address with us. Now, could you please tell us what we are supposed to do with it?
Of course, you have nothing to fear from the FBI, because unlike the ISI, the FBI does operate the under the presumption of innocent till proven guilty and it does offer the accused the due process of the law and it is has to answer for its actions. Friend, you have more rights as a non-citizen in this country than you do in your own country; a country, which seems intent to deny you all of your basic rights.
The fact that you live in this country pre-supposes the fact that you`re an intelligent person and because of that it begs the question why are you so intent on following Dr. Schultz`s advice when it comes to Pakistan: see no evil, hear no evil and think no evil.
#107 Posted by zeemax on July 13, 1999 1:48:30 pm
People who have such anti-state feelings towards Pakistan are Wajibu-l-Katl !
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