Loyal to Pakistan? Why?

I guess you will probably put me in the catagory of all your friends who get upset when you voice your oppionion about Pakistan. However, I would like to say this that the fact of the matter is that you have never ``LIVED`` in Pakistan. So all your oppinions are of one who is looking at something from outside and has never actually been inside. You can`t judge a country by being there a week or two every now and then. Before you give your expert oppionion, at least have the courtesy to live there.

Just so that some free speech advocates don?t forget we are exercising our right to freedom of speech in response to Ahsan?s reply 44.

Ahsan wrote:

?Suit yourselves, enjoy your pathetic little nation, and ruin your lives. I`ll be sipping Pina coloadas on a beautiful beach somewhere while you guys rot in the filth that is pakistan?

I am glad that so many who could choose to drink Pina Coladas on a Beach chose to respond. Let me say on behalf of those who care about Pakistan and its people to those who think that ?we will rot? in the ?filth? that is pakistan.

RaahataiN Aur Bhi Hain Ik Wasl Ki Raahat Kay Siwa (Faiz)

TARIQ LODI:

``Mr. Ahsan and the few like him and their ancestors got privileged education, foreign training and jobs at expense of people of Pakistan.`` I my father worked hard in international public service, does that mean the money he hearned was ``at the expense of the people in Pakistan? How on earth did what he did with his money (which was honestly earned) be ``at the expense of the people in Pakistan?`` If I busted my asss to be successfull how am I `` in debt to Pakistani people to serve Pakistan

and not to mock at the miseries faced by the people because of the selfish and ungrateful beings`` If you read my reply-it`s in either the 100-110 or 90-100 numbers...I tried to do something for this country...they mocked at my miserires to do something for them! They are the selfish and ungrateful ones. I have a 2000 rupeee bonus to every worker on thier birthday, I fed them meals lunch and dinner on work days, I hired teachers who would baby sit and teach the worker`s kids for free, and in my factories I still had numerous people who would not come to work on time, refuse to do the most menial tasks properly...what can one take from people who refuse to help themselves. What can one take from a govt in which Asif Zardari buys $55K worth of jewelry from Tiffany`s but only pays 1000 rupees in income taxes...what is Tiffany`s a tax deductible purchase?

I know that there are many people like me who have tried to do something for Pakistan, create jobs and improve the well being of people. I got nothing out of doing this except for the fact that I was scared my house would be robbed, my car be stolen at gun point, female kin raped,...you read the paper on the net, and ``thieves today had a field day`` or ``X thousand rupees stolen in broad day light`` there is never any good news any accomplishments reported, except maybe for those useless politicians arguing over equally useless issues. I can`t run for office, for my Urdu is extremely weak. Once someone in Pakistan knows you speak english they will try to do the same. Why? I don`t know...it really isn`t cool.

What will this country come to? I don`t know...it is as bad as some of the African countries, it is worse than almost all the Asian countries, and definitely worse than the Latin American countries.

A nation which is a disgrace in the way it treats itself if not a nation which can take any strides forward unless the people are cured of the sick diseases of selfishness, greed, and no being educated.

Salman and Peace: What on earth is wrong with you guys? Here someone is trying to be objective and you two typify and personify Pakistani`s by simply showing how obtuse you are by refusing to believe that this nation will not help itself.

Tell it like it is Ahsan !

Farouq Taj.

re fataquie`

you do indeed have the right to air your opinions, but central to the philosophy that allows you to do so is the belief that they are worth hearing.if you have a problem with what someone is saying, it would make more sense for you to reply in a rational, objective manner. your dramatic deaththreat response was unneccesary and unjustified and did nothing but undermine your own cause..whatever that was. i also find interesting that you say you are afriad of the isi. does that mean you`re familiar with their cruel and senseless misuse of authority? we`re all terribly impressed by the fact that you displayed your adress. now if you`re so concerned about the state of the beloved (and perfect) nation, why dont you send some of those death threats (plus addy in case they wish to reply) to those in power. after all, we all want the best for our country.

shandana

The views expressed are not untrue but only an outcome of a mind that has not heard the four-letter word “debt”. What the reader is led to believe is that he is a young man in his twenties, having no female kin going out on her own to college or work.

Ever since Pakistan came into being there have been two kinds of people living here, among the naturalised, born and giving births:

1. Who aspired for Pakistan, strived for Pakistan and dreamed of Pakistan.

2. On whose head Pakistan was thrust contrary to their wishes, and also those who loath their mothers were not charming and clever enough to have enticed an English man!

The picture presented of people and laws of Pakistan is true today. No doubt. Only much better than what it was in these areas prior to Pakistan. In most areas muslims living here were dominated by the minority, strong Hindu and Sikh feudal lords. On these feudal lords’ mercy and gratifications the majority of poor population, and some so called rich also depended for their upkeep and at times luxurious lives. The rich did not earn their Jagirs, acres and acres of land, and Annas just by hard labour. The British Empire and their agents were pleased with the services they provided and afforded them. In majority muslim city of Lahore Hira Mandi could be established across the road to the Great Mosque. On the 14th August 1947 the staff at the Railway Divisional Office at Karachi comprised of 350 personnel. Only two muslims: One guard from Sarhad and the other a peon from Sind. Such was the literacy rate! Baluchistan was not to be any different.

People here today own and travel in luxurious cars, air- planes, own factories, mines, and what not, acquired from the loans from government of Pakistan, belonging to Pakistanis. A glimpse of theirs’ and their forefathers’ past can be peeped into even today in certain remote areas of every province! On August 14th 1947 there were only three mills or factories worth the name an industry in Karachi! Coconut oil mills at Khori Garden, Dalmia Cement Factory and a bone mill near Old Golimar. What industry or mines were there in Sind, Baluchistan, Punjab or the NWFP? And what other means of transport common but for donkey ride, camel ride or the bullock cart, barring very few cars owned by Parsis, Hindus and Sikhs. The muslim, very rich rode a Tonga driven by muslim coachman.

The commander in chief of Pakistan Army at the inception of Pakistan was an English man, General Gracey. Quaide Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah the founder of Pakistan annoyed at the mischief of Ayub Khan wanted to expell him from the army but refrained on insistence of advisors that Pakistan Army lacked trained officers. He was admonished to wear officers’ cap. Rose to the soaring heights of being called President of Pakistan. Moosa Khan started his career in the British Indian Army stables and by the grace of God Almighty and inception of Pakistan with his efforts and intelligence, rose to the rank of a General in the Pakistan Army, retired as C .In C. and later became the Governor of a province. The Bhuttoes should ever be grateful to Mrs. Nusrat Bhutto (or Nusrat Saboonchi) who happened to be an Iranian and befriended another Iranian in very high position, being Nahid Sikandar Mirza, wife of the last Governor General of Pakistan. Through these rungs in the ladder young flamboyant play boy got introduction in the right places to share the similarity of proverbial “ANARI KA KANDHA”( shoulder provided by a novice for the hunters gun) with Justice Sajjad. Being different only in that the gun on his shoulder fired and that on the Justice’s misfired! This is to illustrate that the opportunity to rise for these people, people calling muslims in this part of the world could be provided by Pakistan only. In making Pakistan our elders simply said “Islam was in danger in undivided India” they did not explain it how. To my mind Islam was endangered because economy of muslims was and is threatened. Had they told the people that they would share the economy, and they understood it, things would certainly be different. We would have been fighting the enemies instead of with each other.

Muhammad Ali jinnah appealed to the literate and well to do muslims of the sub continent to come forward and help build Pakistan a strong and viable entity. Some responded, and even helped run the budget of the Country. Today, a Prime Minister of Pakistan vows to break the begging bowl once again and what he gets and from where and how!

On August 14th 1947 there were only three mills or factories worth the name an industry! Coconut oil mills at Khori Garden, Dalmia Cement Factory and a bone mill near Old Golimar. What industry or mines were there in Sind ,Baluchistan, Punjab or the NWFP?

People and their descendents who dreamed of Pakistan, who aspired for Pakistan and who strived for Pakistan owe their allegiance to Pakistan. They are in debt to Pakistan to make it worth living a place. They may have or not have been born here. They or their ancestors were raised on its soil. People who acquired naturalization elsewhere should realize that before they got branded “BLACKY” they were allowed entry to where ever they are because they were identified as Pakistani. Would Mr. Ahsan or any of his ancestors been allowed entry into a foreign country without a dirty filthy green Pakistani Passport. Mr. Ahsan is enjoying the free, literate, perhaps a little more law- abiding atmosphere because his ancestors were bred and raised on the produce of Pakistani sweat to which in return they owe every thing to help make the green piece of cloth with a crescent and star a flag under which who ever should come should feel secure and privileged like Mr.Ahsan unknowingly does today. To know the law abiding citizens one does not have to travel all the way with Columbus. Today the world has shrunk to the size of T.V. Screen. Just switch on and marvel at the ring in WWW. A nation that can cheat at sports openly, the referee conveniently looking away!

Yes Pakistanis are put to certain amount of difficulty at the airports and other institutions; all is not without reason either. Mostly it is because of the misdeeds of the people belonging to the second class of people as described above and because of people who can not be shamed. Because of the foreign-service personnel who instead of promoting and looking after the interests of Pakistan and Pakistanis for which they are quite handsomely paid do not do their job. Such are the people for whom it was stated in the USA that they would not hesitate selling their mother. And this greed is shown every now and then. And at the same time these people do face the wrath of Pakistanis. May be today they are not strong enough to take them to task. But Pakistanis, born, naturalised or resident else where owe to Pakistan, they and their descendents to centuries shall remain indebted. They owe to Pakistan to raise literacy, commerce, law, civic and civil services, armed services, etc.etc. Mr. Ahsan and the few like him and their ancestors got privileged education, foreign training and jobs at expense of people of Pakistan. They are in debt to Pakistani people to serve Pakistan and not to mock at the miseries faced by the people because of the selfish and ungrateful beings because of whom today we lament that world opinion is against Pakistan. Why should it not be. Our so-called puppets of politicians worked hard and sowed for fifty years the seed of dissent to keep the people divided, not to let them come in agreement with each other. When we have been doctored to be against each other it is living in a fools paradise expecting world opinion to agree with us.

As for the behaviour of Pakistani students, they are seeing altogether a different culture. They will gradually get accustomed to it. And may be they will be able to compare it with theirs and if with a mature mind find it acceptable will agree to name their children after the milkman’s or the green grocer’s. And the children in their turn would fill “NOT KNOWN” in the space provided for father’s name in a form provided for job or income tax purposes! I could not when I was studying abroad, in his age. When I came back almost every body expected me to be different, to look different to behave different. My answer to them was always “I could acquire a different coat of paint if I felt ashamed of the previous one!

TARIQ LODI.

FATIQUE:

``As far as the respect of women goes in your land of opportunities, they are getting b *l *o *w j *o *b *s * in the Oval

office!!!`` This is another one of YOUR quotes...I hope you don`t respect your wife to the extent that she would get a

b *l *o *w *j *o *b...WAKE UP HOMIE X THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE-IT IS SOMETHING ONLY MEN CAN GET, MEN

WITH UNMENTIONABLE MALE APPENDAGES-NOT WOMEN!-AND IF YOU WANT TO GET sensitive

ABOUT IT-YES I DO KNOW AND THINK THAT CLINTON SUX...LONG LIVE Geroge W. Bush Jr. IN 2000

AT LEAST HE ONLY INHALES! Please get a life, and get educated...open your mind...chill baby...try to do something.

Fatique, writing to you right now, between the ads of the home run derby on ESPN is not what I want to do, but I have to tell

you how ``to keep it real.`` ``Also, if you have ever watched news in your life, you`d find out that Pakistan had a female Prime

Minister in Bhutto.`` This is your quote... d a m n f o o l do you know what she did...she went on CBS and told Dan Rather that Pakistan

should be a terrorist state...her exact words...she looted, plundered, and gave all of us a bad name. She is the reason that

thousands of families have all their foreign accounts in Pakistan frozen (and the blame is partly the population as well because

of their insistence on insanity-the tests of nuclear arsenal). What are you thinking when you speak of her election as an

accomplishment.

EVERYONE: I created over 500 jobs in Lahore, I made a more than a significant profit...but I had to bribe customs in

Karachi, I had to bribe truckers in Lahore, I had to exploit labor conditions in rural areas, I had to put up with workers who

wern`t willing to do a job that I overpaid them to do. In short I had to live a frustrating life with the people, I had to live a

dishonest life only to survive. Pakistan might be a Muslim country but it is not an Islamic country. I gave all that up for a life

filled with honesty. We need to educate this country thats it. Get rid of all the Mullahs, MNA`s, MPA`s, and everyone else. We

have Abida Hussain as the science and technology minister. What on earth does se know about s&t? Once these people don`t

want personal gain...we can move on...but we never will for people like you refuse to let us do so. Not realizing, not being

open-minded, not understanding, will never take us anywhere. I did everything I could in my power but was not treated right in

return...what good can I say about this country. I got married, instead of inviting 500 guests I fed 500 poor people. All the

money I got on my wedding I gave to Nawaz Sharif due to his tours of the US and pleading us to participate in the ``help the

country`` scheme. Where the $50K I gave to this country is...I don`t know...not even a thank you note or note of

acknowledgement. That money is probably sitting in someone`s bank account. What am I supposed to say about Pakistan?

People have affairs, drink, and enroll in ``dubious`` businesses, yet they are critical of the people who work hard for a living, or

anyone who does anything good...made fun of by the ``rich upper class`` of Lahore...I gave this country all I could to an

extent...but recieved nothing...except for a place where my parents could come and settle down for 25 years after partition...I

have paid their dues and my dues...and no longer want to help a country that refuses to help itself.

Asalamualaikum Fatique,

I just want to know if you are one of the ``200,000 Pakistani soldiers always on call to defend their country and many of them faced the enemy with that ``juzba``. I didn`t think so, and please the truth. If I`m wrong, hell I`m sorry but seriously would you die for your country? No-I didn`t think so-but if I`m wrong, hell I`m sorry. I`m not sorry for you, but the closed mindedness you are subject to-this is the very disease that prevails our country. Let me ask you ``what efforts have you made to make this country great for generations?`` This is your statement, and ``Pakistan, which has existed for only 52 years, to a country that has existed for more than 225 years, I don`t think it seems fair.`` Let me tell you something, I you want Pakistan to be where America is today 173 years from now (and still think that is fair) you will be living a) in a country that is destitute and b) in a nation that has the most uneducated people who will cheat, lie, steal, and rape to get what they want. Is this the country you love? I do think so!

Oh yeah, and please do use Pakistani words like ``nahi`` instead of ``aint`` because you seem to love Pakistan-after all who can argue with you we do seem to have the greatest language and culture in the world, people who created such swear words that you can`t even create them in english...yes I am talking about the very word that is every other word in a sentence. Fatique, is this the culture you love?

I am just trying to educate you, saying don`t be blind please. We all know that everyone has their faults...but lets be open to those faults..and lets not idiosyncrasize nor hypocratize.

Respectfully,

Mayhem.

Re: SR

Here is my address:

121 W. Constitution, Apt # C,

Norman,OK 73072

And let me see what your FBI can do??

fataquie

If I may suggest, please don’t argue with the fools or whatsoever you may want to call them. First, they will take you down to their level and then they will beat you with experience.

I just read something and would like to share with the readers.

“Why has the Shiv Sena always targeted him? `` I think it is because I was born in Pakistan. But this cannot be undone,`` Kumar said.”. (Dilip Kumar)

re:Fataquie

hats off to u and three cheers to u for ur patriotitsm.....

I m really proud that there are people like u and sharayar out there.....

we are not slaves...ppl should know that..

I AM WITH YOU....

NO ONE ...I REPEAT...NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO DEGRADE OUR MOTHERLAND!!!!!!!!

For those people, who would like my address, you don`t need to look for FBI, I can give it to you myself. I don`t understand how come you guys stand when people like Mr.Ahmed and Chotu talk crap about Pakistan.

Just to let you know, there are more than 200,000 Pakistani soldiers always on call to defend their country and many of them faced the enemy with that ``juzba``. What gives some moron a right to disgrace these men and women in uniform, by talking crap about the motherland they are defending, who go away from their families, putting their lives in jeapordy, just because of pure love for their country. And Alhumdulillah, this is the kind of love that I have for Pakistan. So if someone talks crap about PAKISTAN, he or she better be ready to get the same kinda answer.

I know there are a lotta ills in Pakistan but tell me which country is perfect??? Not even the US. I can fill up pages writing crap about US, but I only counter acted Mr. Ahmed`s response! But I agree that doesn`t mean that we shouldn`t do anything to improve Pakistan`s situation.

Ans what Mr. Ahmed did was disgracing the people who are doing something for the country, by using the words like ``pathetic`` or ``filth`` for Pakistan.

Sure he has his freedom of speech right over the internet, and SO DO I!!! And I believe these are the kind of people who disgrace the dream of Quaid, Iqbal, and many others who gave their lives and put in all their efforts to make a new homeland for their generations.

When Pakistan was created, it was not in this situation, im many cases (e.g. Army, universities etc.) it was in even a worse position and we have progressed.

And when Mr. Ahmed compares Pakistan, which has existed for only 52 years, to a country that has existed for more than 225 years, I don`t think it seems fair. And Mr. Ahmed should know that USA did not have any influence on the ``World Policy`` until after the Civil War, around the late 1800`s, more than 150 years after they got independence, when they had a war with Spanish empire (in Mexico).

As far as disrespect to the country goes, Mr. Ahmed and everybody who is ashamed of Pakistan has every right to point out ills in Pakistan, but when they use filthy language, do you know how would it make people feel who love Pakistan so much that they are willing to volunteer to face the enemy at the highest battlefield, or ``peak`` I should say.

So, if THEY can use abusive language for Pakistan, then they better be prepared for all sorts of answers!!!

And for many who are concerned, I ain`t scared of FBI, rather I`d be scared of ISI!!! Why the hell I`d be scared of FBI???? I ain`t American and FBI has no right on me!! This shows the pathetic mentality of many who are free but still the mental slaves of whites. Yes I am scared of ISI, but no way by F B I! Got the answer!!!!!

re:mayhem

awfully sorry to hear what those rascals and thieves did......

but one thing is quite obvious and evident.....it`s not the land....it`s the people.....we need to educate the ppl and erdaicate all those social evils that have caused such a stigma and blotch on the face of our country and society.....just because a few are corrupt,decayed and sick...that doesn`t mean we cuss everybody who lives in Pakistan....a scum is a scum no matter here in Pakistan or abroad.....devils of today can`t become saints of tommorow!!!!!!!!!!!

I think enough has been said on this article and the replies have encompassed all that should have been justly said.....the article was crude and insolent and if the replies spit their venom...it was aahemed getting the taste of his own medicine!!

if ur home is on fire,u dont put petrol on it(as aahmed seems keen on doing) rather u try to put out the fire.....every one who is a Pakistani should strive for a better future not only for their own selves...but also for Pakistan and if they find this disdainful and abhorrable...they should go and relax on San Tropez...we dont mind...but leave that match stick back home............

some people seem to be carrying bundles!!!

sharayar