A Road To Siachen

Connecting terrorism`s dots

Arnaud de Borchgrave

Dec. 27, 2001

Washington Times

In an attempt to avoid embarrassing Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, and to pre-empt any Indian campaign to extend the war against terrorism to cover terrorist training camps in Pakistan, the White House announced Dec. 20 it was blocking the assets of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) which it described as ``a Kashmiri terrorist organization that has conducted a number of operations against Indian troops and civilian targets in Kashmir since 1993.``

That was once over very lightly. If truth be known, the facts behind LET are identical to Osama bin Laden`s al Qaeda`s organization. The terrorists are interchangeable between both organizations. They were all trained in al Qaeda`s camps and some of bin Laden`s Afghan Arabs have already found refuge among LET`s ranks in Kashmir. The White House`s new formulation calls LET ``a stateless sponsor of terrorism.`` But LET is also Pakistan-based and Pakistan-sanctioned.

LET`s ranks consist of Pakistanis, Afghans, and Arabs led by Pakistani cadres. Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence agency oversees LET`s terrorist operations. Headquartered at Muridke outside Lahore, LET holds annual conclaves that are attended by serving and retired officers of ISI and the regular army, political leaders, and retired scientists of Pakistan`s nuclear establishment. LET`s terrorists are ``freedom fighters`` dedicated to ``the liberation of Indian-occupied Kashmir.`` Its political cover is called Marka-ud-Dawa-wal-Irshad (MDI), a fiercely anti-U.S. pseudo-religious, extremist organization.

LET`s last big meeting was held in Muridke April 13-15 and was attended by retired Gen. Hameed Gul, a former head of ISI and currently ``strategic adviser`` to Pakistan`s extremist religious parties; Retired Gen. Javed Nasir, another former ISI director general; Abdul Qadir Khan, the father of Pakistan`s nuclear bomb; Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, formerly with the Atomic Energy Commission and recently detained at the request of the U.S. for questioning about his meetings with Osama Bin Laden. The conference passed a resolution calling on its ``freedom fighters`` to capture Hindu temples, destroy the idols and hoist the flag of Islam on them.

ISI was tasked with ensuring that no journalists gained access to the meeting. But some did. The News reported on April 22 that LET ``operates six private military training camps in Pakistan and Kashmir where several thousand are given both military and religious education.`` The newspaper also reported that LET runs 2,200 recruiting offices across Pakistan and some two dozen ``launching camps along the Line of Control [LOC] in Kashmir,`` which makes it ``the biggest jihadi [holy warrior] network in Pakistan.``

No militant training center in Pakistan can operate without the consent of the army, now in power, and ISI, a state within a state whose chief reports only to Mr. Musharraf. Yet the government continues to be in a state of deep denial. Presidential spokesman Gen. Rashid Quereshi says, ``No group operating in Kashmir has any base in Pakistan.``

Mr. Musharraf is riding a terrorist tiger and is having trouble dismounting. Last May 18, Najam Sethi, the editor of ``Friday Times,`` an authoritative weekly journal, summed up the president`s dilemma: ``The Musharraf model seeks to covertly ally with the jihadi groups while overtly keeping the mainstream religious parties out of the power loop. This is to enhance and sustain its covert external agenda, while internally maintaining an overtly moderate anti-fundamentalist stance for the comfort of the international community whose economic support is critical to Pakistan`s financial viability.``

The terrorist attack against the Indian Parliament Dec. 13 was almost certainly the work of Jaish-e-Mohammed (Soldiers of the Prophet), another Pakistan-based terrorist organization. This writer found its slogans painted in towns and villages throughout the Pakistani tribal belt last week, to wit: ``Jaish-e-Mohammed and al Qaeda are Bubbling Blood Brothers`` and ``For Commando Training, Contact Jaish-e-Mohammed.`` The motive for the attack was most probably an attempt to disrupt the budding U.S.-Pakistani alliance and isolate Mr. Musharraf.

After ditching Taliban, it becomes increasingly harder for Mr. Musharraf to crack down on those who would Talibanize Pakistan. In fact, he released from detention the No. 1 religious extremist firebrand, Fazrul Rehman.

Mr. Musharraf is now caught between a rock and four hard places — Afghanistan where the anti-Pakistani, pro-Indian Northern Alliance holds the key government positions in the new coalition under Hamid Karzai; a hostile India on the edge of retaliatory action; a disloyal ISI; and a belligerent extremist clergy.

Despite the appointment of a Musharraf loyalist as the new head of ISI when U.S. bombing started last October, the powerful agency has not been responding to the president`s pro-American policies. One regional ISI general even went so far as to rattle tribal chiefs by telling them Pakistan would be next in America`s crosshairs after the defeat of Taliban. The secret organization continues to undermine him at every turn. The country`s principal political leaders are fearful of ISI. They draw the initials with their fingers in the air when the subject comes out lest they be heard by ubiquitous bugs. And they say nothing short of a top-to-bottom reform of ISI, followed by accountability to a yet-to-be-created national security council of civilian and military leaders, will bring the agency back to its proper place in the body politic.

The Taliban infrastructure in Pakistan emerged unscathed from Taliban`s defeat in Afghanistan. While ISI is officially cooperating with the U.S. in hunting down Taliban`s deposed leaders, senior Taliban officials are now resting comfortably in their second homes in Quetta and Peshawar, the two frontier towns where they had parked their families when the bombing started. One has even given an interview to a British newspaper. Another has given a ``religious lecture`` at the madrassa — the ``University for the Education of Truth`` — where he graduated in the town of Khattak. ISI is doubtless aware of these activities. But is Mr. Musharraf?

Belatedly, over the Christmas weekend, Mr. Musharraf decided to freeze the accounts of LET and Umma Tamee-e-Nau (UTN), the group the U.S. believes passed nuclear weapons data to Osama bin Laden. The LET chief then resigned. It is to be hoped that a thorough housecleaning of ISI is next on Mr. Musharraf`s must-do list as he returns from a weeklong state visit to China.

Arnaud de Borchgrave is editor at large of The Washington Times and of United Press International

http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20011227-79790204.htm

Jay: We never expected didley squat from negotiations with India in the past or the future, so at least Pakistan saved the cost of serving (imported) tea to a bunch of Indians!

Frankly, your cost analysis is such a load of the crock it makes me laugh. The cost in the continued Indian illkiterates who still don`t have access to potable drinking water and die of T.B and Hepatitis. Its in the cost of each shell that has to be transported to Siachian etc. Hope your immoral stance is worth your people living in abject poverty with no hope of a better tommorrow on the horizon.

Omar

Now that our feint into Kargil has distracted the Indian army, we should strike into the Punjab with everything. India will counterstrike thru Rajestan into Sindh, mainly thru dessert, perfect, walking into our trap. We drop a nuke or 2 right on their armoured strike corps. India can`t retaliate because our army is marching thru densely populated INDIAN Punjab. Meanwhile their strike corps is annhilated in the Paki dessert with minimal Paki civil casualties. Its a beautiful plan. Lets get started on the raod to Delhi! The ball is then in their court as to whether to escalate by attacking Paki cities.

Re: Jay # 80

Jay, for sorry that lecture, but I love to wax lyrical about military history! Now, only if I could find a girl who shares and understands this passion with me....I would be a happy camper!

I think that there might be a little misunderstanding. I thought we were discussing the military mind per se, but it would seem that you were thinking about a military dictator when you based your comments, about its intellience levels. If that is case, then I would have to agree with you that a military dictator is counter-productive for ``creative`` reasons. I was disgreeing with you on the basis that not all military leaders, past and present, are stupid and I was not, for the record, defending military dictators` levels of sanity.

If you would read my post to Wasiq Nawaz, on the article about citizenship rights, you would have a better understanding about my reasons of concern about the tenure of a dictatorship.

On the other hand, your point is valid that a civilian dictator is always better than a military one. That reason for that is, because a military dictator can not allow too much creativity, lest it comes to haunt him. Still, that does not mean that civilian dictator will be any better. Saddam Hussein is a good case in point. His nearly twenty years of reign over Iraq have done nothing to uplift that nation`s technological or academic standards.

I know that PNS Ghazi was sunk with all hands during the 1971 war, but whether it was tasked with sinking the INS Vikrant is open to conjecture. I think that the sinking of Vikrant, if possible, would have been more a result of opporunity than design. The Ghazi was on a ``roving patrol`` and that meant that once hostilities began, it was authorised to do as much damage as it could. It was on a similar mission as the PNS subs during the recent crisis, which prompted the Indians to increase their naval readiness levels in the western Arabian Sea; prevent interdiction.

The other thing, which would raise doubts in my mind that Ghazi was intending to sink Vikrant would be the operational parameters of Ghazi itself. Remember, Ghazi was an old diesel boat with out an AIP (Air Induction Propulsion) system. AIP is a system, which allow the submarine to ``feed`` air into its engines and for breathing purposes and hence, it increases the time the sub can remain submerged. The diesel type submarines have two sources of power; they use their diesel engines while on surface and they use their electric engines while submerged.

The Ghazi did not have an AIP or advanced intergrated sonors or targetting systems and that meant it could only ``sprint and drift.`` In other words, it would have to come to surface, scan for targets, and run ``sprint`` on its diesel engines while recharging its electric batteries to silently ``drift`` while underwater and that could be only for limited times.

Hence, aquiring and tracking the Vikrant would be difficult. A submarine runs faster on its diesel engines than it does on its electic power and the speed of the carrier, Vikrant, would be greater than the Ghazi`s speed. So, the Pakistani skipper would have to run on the surface most of the time to stay in order to sustain a ``target solution`` on the Vikrant and if he did that, there is a good chance he might be detected by the carrier`s escort ships or their ASW (anti-submarine warefare) helicopters or even by the Vikrant`s Sea Harriers. Consequently, if the skipper of Ghazi stayed submerged for too long, the carrier would, due to its faster speed, would get out of his reach.

Due to these operational considerations, I do not think that Ghazi could ``tail`` and sink Vikrant. This not a sign of disrespect for the crew of PNS Ghazi nor is this a question of their bravery, but a realistic appraisal of the boat`s limititions. Again, if the Vikrant had been sunk, it would be because it presented itself as a TOO (Target of Opportunity) and that Ghazi was in the right place at the right time.

Incidently, do you know that submarines are referred to as ``pig boats`` in most navies, because of the living conditions on board and I have to wonder just how the Pakistani sailors, who are Muslims, feel about serving on them and being associated with the term ``pig``. Wonder what the mullahs will have to say about this when learn this little piece of triva? May be they will issue a fatwa and dry dock the entire PN sub fleet, because it is against Islam and hence ipso facto, anti-Pakistani! Bet the Indians would love that, if it ever happens!

Sorry for the digression, hope this helps....sorry it had to turn into another lecture!

Ferozk,

I salute (not the military one ) your indepth knowledge of the military history. I always suspected that, a military dictator will be disaster, dur to reason which i posited and you disagreed, but civilian dictator with charisma, hitler to indira gandhi will be good for `creativity` . engineering and technology in general seem to flourish under civilian dictator.

Because you seem to know a lot about military, I read a long time ago that the Pak submarine Ghazi was sent on a mission to sink Vikrant nearly a month before the break out of 1971 war. Can you comment on this. i would appreciate it.

Re: Jay # 78

My friend, this discussion on the merits of military is an interesting one and can go on for ever!

The denigeration of the military mind, as being utterly useless, came about in the midst of the First World War, because of its unimaginative tactics, which resulted in periodic tragedies with names like Marne, Ypres, Somme, Paschendale and Verdun. This is where the saying, ``the grammar school boys always know the best`` comes from, because the leadership of the British and French armies were the best and brightest products of its schools and they were always taught the old maxim: ``to whom much is given, much is expected``. It was because of this, that their sin, the watering the fields of Flanders with the blood of a generation, in the eyes of their fellow country was unpardonable.

Since that war, a military has been seen as the realm of dullards and that impression has never left it, but it was not always this way. Historically, the great captains of war were also considered as able and intelligent political administrators. Look at Ranjit Singh; not only was he an excellent military strategist, but he was also an astute politican who played the ``game`` with the British and his rivals while ruling over Lahore and a great part of Punjab.

Napoleon, another military mind, came up with the Napoleonic Code, a legal system of governance, which still holds sway in France. Even in this century, MacArthur`s political reforms in Japan, which transformed Japan into its present day incarnation was more than just a case of simple memory and analysis. It was his understanding of the oriental mind, which allowed him to fuse the Japanese traditions with the concepts of western democracy. He did it so well that it still forms the bedrock of the Japanese political system. If that is not an example of synthesis by a military mind, then I do not know what can be credited as such.

It was only in the aftermath of the First World War and the specialization of the military, that military became solely devoted to fighting and winning wars. Still, military leaders have proven able politicans when confronted with the task. As to military people coming up with inventions, they have, but not necessarily for civilain purposes originally.

Who do you think designed and created the first submarine? It was not the civilians, but soldiers from the Confederacy trying to perfect a weapon that could break the Union`s blockade of Charleston Harbor. Now days submarines are used in all sorts of things from deep sea exploration to rescue operations.

It was a group of Pakistani Air Force engineers, military people, who came up an invention that increased the flight ceiling of a helicopter by about 2500 meters. They even got a patent for their invention, which they shared with the French firm making the helicopters and that invention is now a standard feature on all helicopters. It has enabled helicopters to conduct more effective search and rescue missions in high alpine areas.

If you want to talk about synthesis, let us talk about the combat pilots and a condition, which they refer to as Situational Awareness. SA, is the ability to ``paint`` a 3D mental picture of the environment outside of your aircraft through a process of synthesis, which intergrates all the in-coming data from the flight computers and instuments about the aircraft`s state of performance and which allows the pilot to carry out an effective series of Air Combat Maneuverings or as it is known in layman`s term, ``dog-fighting.``

ACM is the ultimate art of synthesis, because you can not fly and engage in ACM without having SA and Jay, ACM is not a case of operating between simple memory and analysis! The ability to survive ACM suggests an ability to fuse all the available data in a synthesis, which tells you just what is going around you during an ACM encounter. In an ACM mode, not only must a pilot be aware of the flight enevolve of his aircraft, but he must also understand the flight characteristics of the enemy aircraft and take that bit of knowledge and information and seek a synthesis with his own sense of SA and anticapte the next move of the enemy.

Does this sound like a case of simple memory and analysis to you? Jay, take my word for it. Air combat is not a case of a simple memory and analysis!

Yes, marching has no utility to a military engagement, but it is done to taught a person to operate within a team and as a part of the team and think as a team and not act against it`s interests. The nature of the modern battlefield requires a soldier to have the ability to take divergent pieces of information and fuse them together to form a picture, or a tactical situational parameters, which can then be implemented with the right decision. Modern armies do not want robots, but clear cool headed thinking soldiers who can adapt to any sitution and still prevail.

Do you really think that the Indian soldiers, who were scapmering up the heights in Kargil, were brain dead and it was only their creative officers which were responsible for the Indian Army`s victories?

On the contary my friend, it takes an extremely sane person to overcome his fear of death and nerve himself to do something, which his all instincts tell him is a wrong thing to do. Your brain dead soldier would have run instead and never would have attacked the heights when ordered to do so.

Jay, have you ever been under fire? Do you have any idea what it is like to be on the opposite end of an in-coming bullet? It takes a hell of ``synthesis`` of your environment, your levels of courage, your sense of creeping fear, and your urge to hide, but still operate in such an environment. What is combat in its most basic sense? It is nothing more than a synthesis of fear, the terror of the unknown and your own awareness of what is happening around you, in a radius of about five to ten yards!

My dear friend, if you only knew the full scope of courage and sacrifice of those who are willing to die for you and your country, you would not be so dismissive or arrogant of their last full measure of devotion to call them as ``brain dead.``

Ferzok,

I loved your valient defence of the military men, efforts to prove that they are not brain dead.

At a broad level of categorisation, functions of the brain can be grouped into (1) simple memory and recollection (2) Analysis and (3) synthesis.

I prefer to say that sythesis is the highest form of mental activity that is commonly termed as creative. Again, creative can be losely defined as inventions and discoveries. I havnt heard of many military men credited with these. Military related reseaech lead to inventions, but theses are carried out by `civilians`.

One also can look at the processes in the military. Command and obey, the code of any military is obviously not conducive to creativity.

Another process one can look at is the `marching`, it has no relevance to any situations of encounter, but is used as a method to reinforce the command and obey system, to short circuit the brain, the soldier hears the command and obeys it without thinking.

Ofcourse one can argue that my comments are valid only for the `sipoys`, low lvel operatives, but the corollary is which creative person would want to lead an army of the brain dead.

In conclusion the military person operate at best between simple memory and analysis and never at the realm of synthesis. I repeat my assertion that military is for the brain dead.

Re: iconoclast # 76

I thought that might be the reason, but I was still taken aback, because I had come to view you as a cool headed type and one who was not given to these fits of bravados.

As to my fellow country men, they can believe what they like and it still will not change reality one iota. Like I told a friend, there is no sense in encouraging people who do not want to be convinced on the basis of facts and that applies to both Indians and Pakistanis. I think most Pakistanis are in self-denial on what just happened and when they climb out of their stupors, they will have to face some very harsh questions and I promise you, they will not like the answers.

Yes, it would seem that India has finally forged a national identity for itself, but I still would caution you from too much rejoicing in this matter. There is a very thin line between patriotism and recklessness and if the Indian`s cause celebre over Kargil goes over board, it will hurt your long term interests. I just hope that your hawks and other extreme groups do not learn the wrong lessons from this fiasco.

By that, I mean those elements in Pakistan who really want peace with India. If your hawks indulge in too much martial glory, it will only strenghten the hands of the anti-peace lobby in Pakistan and mererly silence the moderates, who might take this opportunity to discredit the hawks in Pakistan, who have landed us in this quandry.

In other words, instead of losing hope over this mess, people with clear visions and foresights can exploit this situation for a better South Asia. I would not discount peace and there will be peace and prosperity for Indians and Pakistanis yet, because all we have to is free our minds from the chains of hate, which bind us and think of Yitzak Rabin called, ``the peace of the brave``.

Best wishes!!!!!

Re: Icon # 73

Just out of interest, what did India win in Kargil? Has this issue been settled for once and for all and will never flare up again? Did the crisis in Kargil restore the LoC in some way that such events in the future will not happen again? Has Kargil stopped the huge loss of money and lives on the Siachen, which India is presently suffering? Has Kargil lessened India`s military committment to region, because India ``won`` and there is no more disagreements on the LoC with Pakistan? What did India win? Did India win regional security for its side of the LoC? Did India win by putting an end to issue of Kashmir finally? Just what did India win?

Yes, Pakistan ended up with a bloody nose, but India did not emerge from this mess smelling like roses either!

Re: Jay # 72

Jay, I was amused to hear your remarks about the military being brain dead. Yeah, sure.....

Moshe Dyan was brain dead when he led the Isrealis against the Arab forces and so was Yitzak Rabin, who as Israel Army`s Chief of Staff, planned the Israeli raid to rescue the hostages from Entebbe. May be the Indian General Makenshaw was brain dead too when he planned and executed the Indian Army`s brilliant use of helicopters to over come river obstacles in East Pakistan, which caused so much grief to General Niazi and the Pakistani Army!

Yeah, I guess you`re right. Erwin Rommel was brain dead too when he was tactical nightmare for the British Eight Army in North Africa and so too was the American Caesar, Douglas MacArthur, when he planned his island hopping campaign in the Pacific against the Japanese. I guess it takes no real skills or brains to plan and execute massive landings, such as Normandy or Inch`on. I guess General George Patton was brain dead too when he organized the relive of the 101st Airborne surrounded by German SS troops in Bastgone, by disenegaing in the middle of a battle, and advancing nearly 150 kms in 24 hours.

Yeah, Jay, you`re absolutely right and I have to wonder why huge corporations want their executives to have the skills necessary in a military environment: leadership, problem solving, ability to organize resources and effectivily use them. If the military mind is so brain dead as you claim, could you please tell why the Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu`s Art of the War is required reading for your average corporate raider?

Thanks Jay! I needed that laugh!

Re: Ferozk

Ferozk

`` Just out of interest, what did India win in Kargil? ``

-- I agree, the truth is on a grander perspective India did not win either. More money would be spent on the ARMED forces, and on defence of the country henceforth. There would be an increase in terrorism and counter-terrorism in Kashmir.

I was only pointing out the tendency of some of your fellow countrymen to look for victories where none existed. I was only criticising the view point of some pakistanis who would only believe what they like to believe. .

The one thing India did win though was that there was a national camaraderie from North to South, and East to West and people started rediscovering their inherent Indianness. India did prove to itself that during a crises, we react as Indians and not as communities, castes , and creeds. But then the costs were prohibitive.

A needless adventure which just killed a lot of people on both sides.

-- Iconoclast.

Re; Amit or the other Indian who wished me ill obliquely

Someone made a comment that Indian RAW should target Paki military families living abroad, or something like it in what was intended to be an obvious reference to me. Now i want this idolater to see what has happened in response to his plea. The Lord of the Worlds, not ever to be confused with some pathar ki murti, has ironically answered your plea. Read on for yourself, the result of your perverse wish. Those who wish for our destruction, shall only live long enough to see their loved ones and commmunity hurt.

Two killed, 16 wounded in Kashmir Grenade Attack

SRINAGAR, July 21: Suspected ``Muslim militants`` threw a hand grenade into a crowded market in Kashmir today, killing two civilians and wounding another 16, police said. The attack took place in a crowded vegetable market in Baramulla, 55 kilometers (34 miles) north of the Indian Kashmiri summer capital of Srinagar, a police official said. Two soldiers were among the wounded. The market is a favourite spot for the FAMILIES OF SECURITY PERSONNEL (my capitalization).

The attack created panic in the streets, prompting shopkeepers in the town of Baramulla to lower their shutters. Indian troops have cordoned off the area and launched a massive search operation.

More than 24,000 people have been killed since 1989 in separatist violence in Kashmir, India`s only Moslem-majority state. Authorities here fear that the recent two-month conflict with Pakistan-backed forces in Kashmir could lead to a major upswing in separatist activity in the disputed Himalayan territory. (AFP)

If anyone wants to claim that Pak won in the Kargil episode, be my guest. It is not new for Pakistani`s to make tall claims even when they lose miserably. You did win the worldcup too did u not ? having shown the world that u could have won if u wanted to .......ha..ha..ha.. (however the whole wide world thinks differently)

YES, BE MY GUEST...PAKISTAN DID WIN....(why are a few pakistanis saying differently...oh.oh they must be RAW agents). And why is no Indian saying that they lost ((don`t be dumb....they are Indians and they always lie))

PAKISTAN = PROPAGANDA....

Iconoclast

Omar

I liked your rseponse to my post, fairly objectve with mild dose of your usual venom. To talk of labour shortage in india, especially in the army where all trainings are done in house, shows a lack of understanding of the indian situation.

To be selected to the military still demands above average physical fitness. Among the uni graduates, military was never attractive and always attracted those withoyut much of any scholastic aptitude and correctly so, military is for the brain dead.

The comment in the original article that there is a shortage of recruits into the officer cadre is merely a plagiarism of the generalised remarks about military recruitment in the western countries and has no relevance to india.

So, you people think that `Pakistan lost` the Kargil Crisis, and `India Won`? Think again. Well, from a strategic point of view Pakistan has already won. The cost of India mainting 10,000 troops year round in Kargil, Drass, Batalik is reported by Indian newspapers to be 100 million rupees (thats about $2 million daily added to Indian army cost of operations alone). Siachin costs India and Pakistan $1 million and $700,000 daily respectively. It also costs the Indian army hundreds more dead due to the climactic conditions alone, which are not better in Kargil-Drass-Batalik (they occupy the heights at Siachin). So, India has now been forced to spend $2m/day ($730 million annually) extra in its desperate bid to continue its illegal occupation of Kashmir and its resulting confrontation with Pakistan. This is a victory for India, of pyhrric proportions. Pakistan`s total cost for this operation $5-10 million and perhaps 500+ dead. India`s cost of eviction was over $200 million. As I said earlier, Pakistan will bleed India white to the bone. Over a decade that is an additional $7 billion! To put things into perspective, the 300 T-90 Tanks India is acquiring from Russia cost $750 million USD. Resources are not unlimited. Poverty striken India cannot afford this, as sane Indians will privately admit. This is a disaster for India. After having lost a few hundred troops, defending worthless territory has become a national point of honor for them. This is excellent. Pakistan has succeeded in its strategic aims w/o increasing its own costs appreciably.

Omar

Re: Omar

Ja? Seine gross-mutter and vater sind Deutsch? Sprachen sie Deutsch oder English im deine Haus mit deine gross-mutti oder vati?

Re: Jay #61

Frankly Jay, the facts simply do not support your conclusions, which you posted this article in support of, and only demonstrate that your basic assumptions on which your conclusions rest, are highly questionable. The article demonstrates NOT that the Indian masses are super-patriotic, but rather the massive unemployment rate in India and the large pool of desperate job seekers, so desperate that they turn blood thirsty in their effort to seek succor for their distended bellies, which led this mob to such desperate acts as killing police officers (state officials, which amount to an act of treason, one wonder if they would hesitate to kill their own officers in war, or mutiny under fire?), just for the chance to enlist in the army (guaranteed life time employment afterall). Feroz talked about the Indian middle class deserting the IAF/Indian armed forces, particularly the officer corps, not these unqualified ill disciplined masses. In fact, if this is the caliber of the Indian army recruits, frankly, its no wonder the Indian army is guilty of committing atrocities in Kashmir. You have just given us proof of it! You`ve also showwn us why the insurgency continues against all odds in the valley. Such people, are fresh meat for the kill. Also, i don`t think the Pakistan army will be too worried about facing this quality of humans in a war. Faceless Mobs, are easily dispatch once the fighting becomes personal, and individuals remember to save their own skins under fire and become aware of just how vulnerable they are.

regards,

Omar