Of Boylove and Boylovers

dibb, brother, I hear you. Thanks for your encouraging appraisal of the situation. Yes, I've noticed the affirmation of "love, strange love" from "films, websites and books/memoirs" recently-- while, of course, the legal age of consent paradoxically moves in the opposite direction. I guess, as I think you point out, the 9-to-5ers are a couple of decades behind academia and artist in sheer imagination.

I've accepted your 'friend' request here on chowk but should tell you I'm pretty much an Eid ka chand 'round here. I can be contacted at postmatser@yahoo.com. Note the spelling.

P.S. I suspect you're old wine in a new bottle here. :-)

Dear Sabia urf PM,
I just read got to reading your article on Boy-love (more than a decade after it was written) and have truly been blown away! Being a bisexual boylover and having had (consensual) sexual, and other forms of interactions with with a long list of boys, men, women and girls (including cousins, colleagues, classmates and strangers in strange lands!) I not only fully support your well worded arguments but frequently propound them to all and sundry myself! Many friends and well wishers agree, others do not and only respond with paranoia and moral/legal stock-phrases. Nevertheless since you wrote this piece of luminous brilliance, the debate between the neuters and the free-love brigade has reached an entirely new level, with cinema, internet and literature often leading it. So many films, websites and books/memoirs depicting the beautiful process of 'coming-of-age', childhood sexuality as well as the benefits and joy of intergenerational relationships have emerged since the year 2000 that it is heartening indeed. This coupled with the phenomenon of so-called 'teenage-sex' and all its side effects, as well as a renewed iteration by the medical community of the fact that most children (especially around puberty) are biologically and emotionally ready for sex, has completely caught the conservative lawmakers and penis hating feminists off guard. While of course the governments of the age are responding with (UN collusion) a predictable line of action (increasing age of consent in Canada from 14 to 16, in India from 14 to 16, in Netherlands from 12 to 16, labeling at random people as pedophiles and child abusers etc.)and more and more of these pseudo and naive urban, Americanized 9 to 5"ers are caging their children in repressive and programmed environments; the children themselves however are not interested in being sexually denied anymore and are experimenting like never before! So all in all The situation while dangerous and humiliating(for us types) as never before, is also one that rekindles hope for the future where perfectly natural and human sexual practices will no longer be regarded as dirty and craven. Ah! how I long to live in ancient Greece or Rome, or perhaps Ottoman Turkey, early Vedic or even Mughal India where boy/man love while certainly on the margins was legitimate and out of the purview (unless politicized) of the law. Where importance was placed on male bonding and intergenerational relationships were considered as part of a child's education and growth. Life is short, what is the point in spending it under the thumb of some stupid diktats expounded by corrupt, anally retentive, dirtbag politicians, bureaucrats and clerics, when we all know that the truth lies within ourselves. All we need do is be brave enough stand up for it. As a practicing Sufi, Self empowerment as a means to helping others struggling on 'the path' is a sacred duty. As Allama Iqbal says "Zindagani hai sadaf, qatra e neesan hai Khudi, voh sadaf kya ke jo qatre ko gauhar kar na sake, ho agar khudnigar o khudgar o khudgir khudi, yeh bhi mumkin hai ke tu maut se bhi mar na sake".
Peace Brother and long live love!
:-)

re. #221
Thank you, Asif. It was nice of you to comment.

Zordeck, brother, I hear you! I am so touched, first, by your kind words: it is extremely gratifying to know that my efforts have helped you in some way, if only by helping you articulate your feelings and thoughts better for yourself, and maybe by helping remind you that there are people like yourself all over the world. (Yes, I am from Pakistan)
I am also moved by your own sad account of how you were stopped from performing a duty that I`m sure you were better suited to carry out than most.

Sir, if you wish to contact me, you might visit the ``off-the-wall`` section of the UNPLUGGED Area here on chowk and give me a holler there. I look forward to that.

Best regards,
PM

a very interesting, well-written, article. which makes a lot of sense...

Amazing, amazing!

I am so fortunate to come across this article written by you, PM. I am too, like you, as in also a boylover but from Malaysia. A few of my friends I know are BLs too, and we`re mostly underground. I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed reading this article and the arguments that you have made on behalf of all people like us.

Besides a few other understanding non-BL friends who know about my love for boys, it`s generally been an extremely difficult for me to explain to people what it means to be a boylover. Among the misconceptions of these people is the children are asexual beings (which I countered: so they magically become sexual the moment they hit puberty? What about an 11 year old boy who is an early bloomer?), incapable of expressing and comprehending erotic love and to just plain ignorance and malice. It is sad really, and sometimes I give up hope even trying to argue with these people about the legitimacy of boylove.

I assume that you are from an Asian country. Even better as many also think that boylove and paedophilia is a `Western` occurrence. What about the Japanese? They typically worship boys (& girls) that they have special holidays commemorated for them! The old samurais too, have the same sort of culture as the Greek Spartans as in they have consorts and some, if not most, are boys. If this is such a normal practice in those ancient times, why is it so bad now?

Sigh, it`s a tough world we all live in. I used to be a schoolteacher (teaching History and PE) at an international school but I got fired when some teachers find it uncomfortable that I am physically affectionate with my male students. How d I teach PE if I`m not suppose to touch my male students?? Is it so wrong for me to hug, kiss and pat a crying child?? (They said that I should have handed the matter over to a female teacher). It`s so sad. But I moved on from that chapter of life now.

All the more reason why I decided to educate these youngsters the difference between what is right and what is wrong. And for me, boylove is not wrong. Being a homosexual is not wrong. When you hurt someone, that is wrong. But then again, I don`t feel obliged to explain or be answerable to anyone except my God. He alone is the Judge of my fate.

I cannot thank you enough to know someone like you, who is willing to put in quite a considerable amount of time and research into this topic which I feel people must talk about openly and rationally. If we want change, that is the only way to do - through research, education and debates. Keep all emotions and feelings aside and look at it objectively.

Anyways, more power to you, sir!

articulating miaN,

Thanks for the compliment re my reasoning skills. I wish I could return it but, alas, the content of your post -- which purported to start off well-meaningly and objectively enough but soon degenerated into the usual confused tripe that is almost expected -- prevents me from doing so in all sincerity.

Thankfully, i don`t have to sit now and attempt to rebut your many points. They have all already been dealt with in the interacts.

All I will say is that you need to distinguish between intrinsic harm and that caused by external circumstances, and recognise better what the argument is. Your point about the extrinsic harm caused by such encounters are, actually, not really supported by empirical studies, which I went to some length to point out in the essay. You seem to have demonstrated the lack of comprehension that was almost the hallmark of respondents on this board. (Conclusive evidence of this is your repeated references to FEMALES who have been abused-- though I took pains to point out that all studies show that BOYS are a different kettle of fish altoghter) But even if i were to accept your contentions on extrinsic harm as (partially) true, you fail to realize that this esasy argues for nothing less than a revolution in these very EXTERNAL circumstances that cause such harm. And this is not going to happen as long as sex is seen as being bad for children. In fact, exactly the opposite is true.

Do read the interacts if you are truly interested in debating this issue.

rgds,
PM

iam 23 m khi , need Some gud friend like mature woman who understand me or bold lady if you are and if you think so plz be my friend i will be thank full to you here my email:ndcap1@hotmail.com
contact:03002201914
i will wait for yor reply in these contacts
have nice day take care bye

I know I am late in expressing my opinion, but I guess its never too late!
Not only is this article (I came across it in the archive) one of its kind, the author demonstrates excellent reasoning skills. The comparison between the two kinds of teachers, one who mistreats and the other who makes love to his pupils is not justified. Its like, why accept back in the society an alcoholic and not a cocaine dealer. I don’t think anyone will deny that seducing children is far more easy then seducing an adult or even a young adult. the molestation with or without penetration has dire effects but so does lovemaking, though the intensity does vary. early exposure makes people promiscuous when they grow up. It might not make the child feel victimized but he or she does feel guilty for cheating on ones parents and it inculcates the idea in them that they are bad boys or girls. And this tag of being bad often becomes a good excuse for not refraining from sex. Take the case of Opera Winferey ( though she got it treated) who was raped at 9 and molested at 14. Marilyn Monroe ,Michael Jackson and even Cleopatra ( she had sex at 12) had the same problem. All three were promiscuous. I don’t care if you accept promiscuity or not, but its dangerous. And such people often confuse love with sex and try using sex for relaxation but only end up in frustration. Our understanding improves with age , especially when it comes to sex which is more of an adventure back then. Sooner or later the kid realizes that sex is not to be taken casually, especially in our society. Remember , sexual acts with children even with their consent is illegal in the west and they sure have a wisdom behind it. And I know why you keep mentioning “without penetration”. A child under 12 will have a genital or anus too small for penetration. And if it does take place, you cannot continue to pretend it was an act of love because it would become too gruesome. There is a hell lot of difference between falling in love with children and falling in love with same sex adults.
I have seen several cases in which the person acquires the habit of bed hopping. In fact a girl I know, she had conjugal relation with her father. Now, she always claims that no man can resist her and she tries seducing every man crossing her path. I don’t think you will be surprised to know that the males she pursues are always middle aged. Some people might accept it as normal but to me it appears to be a manifestation of a problem.
Now lets come to Nomi. First of all Nomi was 11 when you met him (thank god). Pedophiliacs can fall for toddlers even. The younger the child, the more adverse the consequences. You took advantage of a neglected child to whom you were assigned to teach. Having sex with your student (even without penetration) when you are supposed to be teaching him is not acceptable. People are not honest with there work and this is one of the reasons Indo-Pak are backwards. You think you were parenting by giving him attention and affection? Good parenting has no sex involved. This is equivalent to saying ‘I saved a woman from rape by murdering her.’ Nomi’s parents didn’t want you to parent him, they wanted geography to be taught, which you didn’t do. Now you say you would have married your “boy-love”. If I love marry a woman, she will grow old but still remain a woman. But if I marry I fall for a little boy , he will grow old and become a- man. Then what? You will write an article on gays then? The fact that Nomi still remembers those times as pleasurable is a proof that Nomi at that time was still too young or else it was just a different kind of hiking trip for him unlike you for whom it was life-changing ( or perhaps catastrophic). Just ask your Nomi after he has kids of his own, would he prefer you to teach geography to his son. The fact that you are an adult means u have skill to rationalize. Children don’t by attracting and then becoming indifferent to each other. This shows you are one cunning adult. And according to Quran you can have sex in paradise to women without marriage but that’s not allowed one earth ( now anyone can say it is allowed on earth too ) and the same is true for boy-love. The Chinese, Romans and Arabs were not always right! And if you can write an article debating you are right, why did you hide your identity? This indicates something…….. Why don’t you give the name of the school you work in or tell the parents of you preys what your are up to. You did behave like someone lurking in the dark not literally but technically.
This article seems to be the wrong choice for creating awareness. Just like a XXX rated movie can do little to create awareness about AIDS.
Don’t get defensive, but you don’t need a counselor. You need a psychiatrist. Just go to him and present this article and maybe he could contribute an interact too. Your fantastic debating skills can be useful to humanity ( unless you become a serial killer and start defending them ).
After reading this article , I wonder who felt that “barha mazaa aya thaa” …………because……………mujhey nahi aaya!

I feel sick but have no place to vomit.

Someone like PM will probably never have children but for anyone who has children or contemplates it, people like this man are a parent`s worse nightmare.
I wish he had been caught with that child thrusting on his lap so he would have been flayed by the parents, the police, and the rest of society. PM should have his face permanently blackened. He is a nothing less than a danger to every male child he is around.
I really do pray that this man gets caught and punished to every extent of the law.

Oh and btw, really disappointing that chowk gave this monster a forum to spew his filth.

PM your writings here remind me of our qari saheb`s suspecious looks and his asking me to massage his legs with mustard oil. later in school our islamiyat teacher sitting on the edge of my bed early in the morning (his hand in his dhoti) to wake me up for fajr prayers. 2 of us (good looking boys) in class being his favorit students.

Dear Chowkstaff,

The latter half or so of this article is missing. I`m wondering if that`s because of the length of the interacts present on the page currently. If this is the case, could you please delete the last post by mumbaikar, which is totally irrelevant to this thread anyway.

Thanks

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Hi PM, i`m overwalmed by your assay, i have no words to explain what i feel. i guess i am too stupid to come up with something original :)

Nevermind the bad contributions of those brainless people, don`t let em hurt you. You`re better than that. a warm salute and good wishes to you this new millenium, have all the love of the world and even more if you can, these are my desires to friends like you. i`m Alexei n. 22 years old, (and BL too) from Mexico city.

oh yes, another little thing, what``s-- “burra muzza aya tha” -- means?

love above it all, Alexei.

I feel a sense of debt to a number of respondents, (too many to name) for various reasons. Some exhibed an open-mindedness that was generally in such short supply that I wouldn`ve quit the debate early on were it not for them. Some showed concern even as they pulled the opposite end of the line. It is always good to know that we may disagree but still repsect each other, as persons.

This closure would be incomplete without my special thanks to SR and Kamran, who went beyong maintaining a helthy skepticism to trying to actually empathise. Your replies were extremely well worded and inspiring. Thank you for taking the trouble. SR, if you are the doctor who periodically contributes to chowk, I think your estimate of me as a good writer is reward enough for me.

Ferozk, man, tumharay saath mathay laranay to kuch aur he baat thi. Thanks for the advice on taking this from the theoretical to the practical, but, given the many other problems that demand more immediate attention here in Pakistan (education, economic injustices et al) I don`t think I would want to invest my energies towards sexual liberation. (That would be an almost impossible task here anyway)

Peace.

PM