His Gift

Fozia:

I would say that science as it stands today is unable to explain the phenomenon of ``wahi`` as occurred with the prophets. Perhaps one day if science ever evolves enough to encompass the realms of the spiritual, there will be ways to measure the higher energy levels that revelations, dreams, and other experiences occupy.

I too have had friends and my own experiences where dreams provide knowledge that defies all logic.

Anarchistan: a lot of people say they are able to tell when someone is going to call them, when someone close to them but not geographically present is upset etc. etc. I would say it is our ``intuition`` at work here, which is also knows as the sixth sense (no, I haven`t seen that movie yet). Perhaps ``intuition`` can pick up energy that travels at different levels than the level our eyes or ears or skin picks up energy at... I`m no science graduate, though, so that could be a totally laughable premise :)

Zahra: Sorry, my day job prevents me from having more time to write at those levels of intensity more often.

- Bina.

Fozia & Bina:

Yes, I do agree that ``wahi`` can not be explained in scientific or rational terms, but that is the only point common between paranormal events and ``wahi``. And I do understand the definition of paranormal. Things are a bit more clearer for all of us now. Well, for me anyway.

Paranormal covers activities or events such as:

Unexplained psychic events (as unexplainable to the psychic as they are to the science).

Magic

Witch Craft

UFO abductions etc. etc.

You can infer by strictly sticking to the definition of paranormal that “wahi” is a paranormal event or as Bina puts it,

“a paranormal event which is nonetheless absolutely true and authentic and coming from God.”

But, in my view (as a Muslim), to classify “wahi” and mysterious, unexplained experiences of the psychics, Magic, Witch Craft, UFO abductions etc. under the one term of “paranormal” would be a great injustice.

“Wahi” is an experience which has a class of its own (see Bina`s post on wahi). It should not be classified under “paranormal events” to avoid confusion between mysterious, and unexplainable psychic experiences, Magic, etc. and “wahi”. That is all I am trying to say.

I do appreciate the patience, and kindness with which you guys have responded to my replies.

It seems that smart, streetwise, and sometimes quite vicious comments are in vogue at this joint. Thank you both for refraining from using such language.

Cheers,

Fairdinkum

Mr. Baker:

Hello! Firstly rest assured that I am convinced on your superb humor. (Applause)!!!

Secondly, the verses are read in two different ways:

Bataan as Baa`tain

Taluk as Tuk

As you come from the origin of these verses, therefore I will leave it to you to figure out your preference. I have read them in my school years in both ways. Though the Taluk sounding ones were from the old books.

Your genuine concern on my understanding your words is well noted. I was just ignoring it previously as it was hard to read. Then I went back and re-read your verse and realized probably you were coming up with something very serious and my laughter(Probably Bae-Mauqaa`) caused some anguish and concern. In fact, I wrote my thoughts on that and it seemed my ``genuine thoughts`` were eaten by Chowk and you were just asked to correct your Hijj`ae of Hansee. Well, you seem to be pretty well protected here :-) besides some others.

So keep on exercising your right to express yourself clearly.

Personally, I am working on the brevity of my thoughts whereas I will suggest you to checkout the clarity of yours (I am sure your ego will withstand the load )

Regards

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Bina:

Well, seems like there was some misunderstanding on your behalf. I just thought I will also enlighten the effects of the ``mediocre`` writings of women who are damn accomplished in their respective fields in IOPWE.

They are role models in their areas and by the Grace of God their existance ``though mediocre - (as per your childish view)`` as they provide guidance and assistance to their fellow Pakistani Women besides being well acknowledged in their respective fields.

Your response was childish where you immediately jumped on comparison. If a person is secure in his/herself they will not need ego boosters.

I do not write as I strategize the articles that need to be PUT FORTH or thoughts that need to be given words. So when a female student in a university reads that she is not there by herself.

Though I plan to retire as a writer. Now it has been some time that my words of wisdom did not get a chance to be in black and white. But thinkers, do that in their heads. They evolve and dissolve in their heads. And then they recite quite often :-)

Re: STATESMAN and Studebaker

both are Indian Muslims, from calcutta, now in the US, who also write distinctly alike and who hold almost alike views.

Do u guys know each other :)

-- Rishi

Re: Statesman

Good for you

Rishi

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wow. haven`t had so many english lessons since second grade language arts.

thanks djiin, you`ve done us all a service. you know, in some countries they kill your firstborn for incorrect usage of `that.`

now, premonitions really interest me. not the hard-core psychic in the story or prophet thing or whatever. like when the phone rings, and you know who it is before you pick it up. or you know when something terrible up is about to happen, that sinking feeling in your stomach. deja vu and all that.

is it some sort latent instinct left over from our ancestors, who really needed it to survive? maybe the mind is constantly calculating probablilities, so that when we do get a premonition, it is simply the most likely outcome of an event (who`s calling me?) as determined by our brain.

FAIR DINKUM #32

There is different level of understanding as we age from primary school to college & there after.Even though some sort of credible scientific explanation for our conducts is helpful to convince the starry eyed,curious,eager to learn.teens .Eg. movement of Namaz is taught as as good low aerobics with Range of Motion exercise.It may be a fact ,i would DISCOURAGE such emphasis on JUSTIFYING all religous activities.There is scientific explanation of all Islamic beliefs,but even though selective use of them specially for the ``Student``kind is necessary,it should be an exception rather than a rule.

RISHI #34

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?????I cant understand incoherent,wrongfully juxtapositioned phrases & innappropriate use of english words.

fairdinkum,

When I made my comment, I was not trying to explain all paranormal activity in the light of Islam. Bina understood the context I meant in very well - basically that the revelations that Prophets experience are definatatly not something that can be explained rationally.

I`ll repeat the definition Bina presented of ``paranormal``:

Paranormal - Beyond the scope of normal scientific investigation etc.`` (Oxford Dictionary and Usage Guide of the English Language)

Read the definition carefully, it simply states paranormal is beyond the scope of normal scientific investigation. Obviously a revelation from God is not something that can be explained scientifically.

If one just steps back for a second and tries to

imagine one of the people who was with the Prophet (saw) as he experienced a revelation, I think it`s possible to see how it would be categorized as a ``paranormal`` event in modern day terms.

For example, I`ve read accounts that during a revelation, the Prophet (saw) all of sudden stopped whatever he was doing, breaking into a cold sweat and staring at one position in the sky.

The Prophet (saw) himself is seeing the Angel Gabriel speaking to him. The other people around simply see the Prophet in an altered state of mind and staring into the open. From the viewpoint of the ordinary person this is a ``supernatural`` or ``paranormal`` event.

Now as a Muslim, I`m going to believe that the Prophet`s paranormal event was in fact a real vision from God through the Angel Gabriel.

A Non-Muslim may disagree and just think he was Hallucinating.

This is just terminology, it doesn`t take away from the spiritual reality of Allah and his Messengers.

Modern day ``psychics``, UFO abductions etc can also be classified as paranormal events due to their inexplicability in scientific terms. The source of their ``vision`` however is very different than that of the Prophets.

It could be mental illness, or it could be something else too. Even in Islam, it is accepted that ordinary human beings could see jinns etc if they enter the proper spiritual level.

Surah Al-Falaq (#113) and Al-Falaq (#114) in fact

discuss witchcraft/Black magic, jinns. We as Muslims are told to recite these verses to protect ourselves from the black magic and jinns.

You can read these surahs online at:

http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/noble/nobe113.htm

and

http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/noble/nobe114.htm

Istikharahs are another example of a supernatural/paranormal activity that some of us ordinary Muslims undertake in. I know personally of several people who`ve had dreams and visions after Istikharahs and other duas that really defy all logic yet are incredibly correct.

Regards,

Fozia

Zahra:

I don`t think I was taking it personally (ok, well maybe just a little bit), but I really was responding to your comment about ``The ones who have been writing here are just one side of the picture there is another side far more intense, genuine and thought provoking.`` Then you referred to the Women Engineers` Newsletter so I thought that was what you were referring to. And giving you my opinions on it as far as its contents being ``intense, genuine, and thought provoking``. Don`t take it so personally, my dear... after all, ``people may make fun of your dreams, your thoughts, your arguments...Hey, that is life``.

As for this article being lightweight, well, if I wrote the same thing again and again, or rather, a different version of the same theme again and again, you (the reader) and I (the author) would both get bored. I like to stretch myself by experimenting with many types of writing: fiction, essays, poetry - and also with different voices, points of views, etc. I cannot serve up what everyone always expects; that would be not half as much fun!

Fairdinkum:
Please see reply #28 which has an extensive defition of ``wahi`` and the various hadiths and verses from Quran to support it. I still fail to see how these experiences cannot be classified as paranormal. Remember, we are not debating their veracity or even their spiritual weight (that is agreed to be infinitely more than any regular human being). Definitely the experiences go beyond normal scientific measures, which is all I am trying to say here!

re: STATESMAN

hmm,, looks like the message reached someone atleast, even though it was not directed at anybody in particular.

Thanx

-- Rishi

Bina:

I think you took it quite personally. I have read a few fine articles from your side and therefore expected you to have maintained the intensity. This was a little light weight one!

As far as IOPWEians articles in the newsletter are concerned, none are writers. They are in fact quite far from writing articles. The group is there to motivate the other women from Pakistan who want to pursue higher education in Science and Tech and want to see role models and by the Grace of God our membership is growing. Many times we get a line or two from women.

So do not go by the words only, go by the thought behind the posting. As far as critique is concerned, I never claimed that please go and read my masterpiece work. I just pointed towards the women who are not great writers but are in Science and Tech Fields and still made an effort to convey their message. The one who can write and have the time to do so should do a better job!

Hope I am clear.

The following verse is something that I rellay like by Iqbal:

Bina:

“What I did say was that what the prophets experienced could be classified as paranormal.

``Paranormal - Beyond the scope of normal scientific investigation etc.`` (Oxford Dictionary and Usage Guide of the English Language)”

I understand that, and no I did not leap. It is regretful that you got the impression that I tried to misconstrue you.

However, I’d have to stress the point that there is no relation between “paranormal”, as defined by the Oxford Dictionary and Usage Guide of the English Language, and “wahi”.

There is an element of doubt with paranormal experiences, whereas “wahi” is the word of Allah, crystal clear, and without any doubt.

Now that you have made an effort to look up the definition of “paranormal”, I suggest that you go through the definition of “wahi” and its different forms as well.

Cheers,

Fairdinkum