Compilation of Opinions on the Military Takeover in Pakistan

-Reference Chowkidar agenda - some reflections:

You mentioned very dracaonian punishments for loan

defaulters. General Musharraf also said yesterday

that if people do not pay back by the 17th there

will be a blast. Well one opinion is that this

guy is going to be put on top of a ghauri missile

blasted somewhere. It could be the closet taliban

generals waiting in the wings wanting to let

him be the fall guy. I have no problem with him

being drunk in the evening but he is expected to be sober at day time.

In regard to the matter of default: Son, lot of

business operations fail - just like military

operations. In the third world this is more likely

to happen for variety of reasons that primarily

include government policies. While I am not

denying the fact that people have defrauded banks

or were ill intentioned - but defining a willful

defaulter is quite difficult even for the bankers.

Our economy has been slipping into a recession

for serveral years now. Some international factors

and a lot of domestic factors as well. Fundamentally we have been living beyond means

and supporting a big wasteful and corrupt government apparatus that has been directly and

indirectly spending borrowed money. Plus we have

been supporting a huge military machine that costs

a hell of a lot of money. There is also reason to

suspect that one of the factors that led the

army to decide that the civilians should be ousted

was that they say it coming that the defence

allocations would have to be slashed as there was

no money left. They probably did not think it was

important to work out a strategy that would have

maintained a military posture at the same levels

in lesser funds.

Infact the critical failing has been that they

did not a allow this kind of debate. If Musharraf

allows this I will be convinced that this is the

guy we have been waiting for.

We are unable to generate funds to support the

latter two - obvious brought on by this kind

of spending binge. On top of it we have not spent

any substantial money or had the systems in place

to educate our manpower that could have supported

an economy running on software, high tech value

added work and what have you.

The nuclear program was developed as a sequal to

the emerging resouce contstraints because the

leaders then - Mr.Bhutto included - realised that

we could not maintain a military posture that

provided the balance of power with India beyond

a point. So perhaps the nuclear program was ``a``

solution to freezing the status quo. I would

have done the same.

Coming back to the default thing. The actual

default figures are estimated to be $2.8 billion.

Even this figure has been doubted in a recent

analysis. The figures are apparently cooked up by

the State Bank to con the IMF and includes interest that has not really accrued. This figure

includes a lot of government commercial operations.

We are in the hoc to the tune of 30 billion dollars plus. Where did the other 27 billion go ?

He is not talking about that.

Another point - just to make you think while you

are on guard duty - there is also serious concern

about the IMF treatment and the fact that there

seems to be something stange happening. The banks

are orchestrating forced bankruptcies. I find

that very suspicious because there is a growing

body of literature suggesting that this is part

of scam to acquire Pakistani industrial assets,

banks and infrastructure and 10% value by western

interests. Writings about this ``scam`` have been

published by western economists - not the mullahs,

pinkos and crooks. The statement by the American

Ambassador the other day did give out the latter

odour.

The kind of witchhunt and pogrom being planned is

going to have frightful consequences. Our ecomomy

is likely to collapse with catastropic consequences and the costs are going far exceed

what we may gain. Just wait and see...

Fidel

General`s Agenda

I would like to take this opportunity to slightly reorganize Gen. Pervez Musharaf`s agenda:

1. Ensure swift and across the board accountability.

At this stage, accountability should be the first and foremost priority of Gen. Musharaf with the stress being on “SWIFT”. Any unnecessary delay will jeopardize present government’s credibility. Capital punishment should be the ideal option since it will be a lesson for the next generation of politicians. However, if the rationale for capital punishment cannot be established an alternative approach would be to deprive the convicts of all their wealth and assets and leave them to roam the streets as beggars. This should also apply to the loan defaulters.



2. Ensure law and order.

Personal weapons should be declared illegal with immediate effect. A deadline should be established for people to turn-in the arsenal. Anyone caught with a weapon should be shot.

3. Feudalism should be uprooted immediately.

This is the very core of our problems. Once eradicated, will automatically pave the way for the devolution of power and de-politicizing of state institutions.

4. Education is what we need.

Although, 4th in my list of priorities, education is the corner stone for the revitalization of our economy, resurrection of national confidence and the overall prosperity of Pakistan.

The core educational curricula should be revamped to bring them in-line with the need of the present. The government should facilitate educational institutions to ensure that our youth attains the necessary education to become value-added citizens. Emphasis should be on post-secondary education.

Women along with men should be encouraged to attain higher degrees so they can contribute to the workforce and teach the importance of education to their children who will be the future of Pakistan.

Last but not the least, in this era of information technology, it should be our national mandate to ensure that Pakistan’s youth acquires the skills that are necessary for our survival in the next millennium.

5. Restore Investor Confidence (Specially in the field of Information Technology).

First of all, Information Technology should be declared an industry. The government should provide financial assistance as well as tax breaks for investors who want to focus in this area.

Instead of focusing on sugar and tomato exports to earn export revenues, Pakistan should focus on this multi-billion dollar global market that is still in its infancy. We should learn a lesson from India who is exporting 3.9 Billion dollars worth of software per year.

6. Strengthen the federation, remove inter provincial disharmony and restore national cohesion.

7. Establish a national social security and credit processing system.

This should be based on the US standards. A credit history should be maintained for everyone with a valid National Identification Number. This will not only facilitate the financial institutions to determine credit worthiness, but will also help the government to collect taxes in an organized fashion.

MUSHARRAF

We need to hear Nawaz Sharif`s version of about

this guy. This man cannot foster political

develpment - period. He is just another adventurer.

His Kargil stunt - that cost over $1.5 billion

and endangered the country - something he

does not want to discuss.

He thinks that diverting attention to private

sector problems with the banking system will

make us forget Kargil.

Fidel

TRUTH IS TRUTH, NO ONE CAN CHANGE IT

Reference SameerJB reply# 72

Thankyou Sameer Ji for clarifying my feelin`s. I really appreciate that and wish we all have similar ability to understand and read each other between the lines. The facts about 12 Oct 1999 coup remain postulates as far as history of civilized nations is concerned:-

(1)that a the chairman of joint chiefs of staff and dismissed chief of army staff, jernaile mutterraf, overturned the entire set-up only because he believed that he had been removed from office unceremoniously and in violation of the procedure.

(2)Jernaile Mutterraf dismissed his `employer` the PM of Pakistan on account of personal vendetta or enmity instead of going to the court for legal redress.

(3)In civil service a Grade 22 officer assumes his office without taking an oath, but the Constitution prescribed oath for all armed forces personnel as compulsary, only because they bore arms. The oath must be honored; but jernaile mutterraf has committed treason.

The whole world is looking towards us and yet there is not a single person who has any regard for the constitution of Pakistan. I have also learnt that Sharifuddin Pirzada has advised to jernaile mutterraf to re-write the constitution, and that Sharifuddin alone can do it. Lets take country back to early 1900, why? Whose purpose are you gonna serve? Maybe we are giving the world a message that we are just like the ones western media has always potrayed; we cannot improve! Please think for a while, don’t let go principles on personal likes and dis-likes for NS or anyone else. We got to behave like civilized world but the sad part is the only few of my nation, who can read and write are distracted, wasting energies on non-issues.

Once again thanks.

RoohiAD

``NAAM MOMINAH WALA AYE``

Frangi_Kush Bahra Ji, reply # 71

Allah ji you are so innocent, you call your self ``Farangi Kush`` but dare not write your own name in the forum. `Suchi tusi tey hudh he kar ditty aye. Ya tey tousi baray Boohlay jay, ya phir tousi baray `Terreyal` (darpook, coward) jay`. At least show courage to write your own name. `Naam tey tusi mominah walla rakh layah way per kartoot tey ------ walay nay. Wasay mein thadi bhain haan ji`. Just because you like jernaile Mutterraf so much, I have decided to give him some respect, so in future I shall write him as jernaile Mutterraf G. `Allah karay` thadi aqul toon curtain haat jaye`. Bye Bye Bhai Ji.

Roohi Allah Ditta

In response to tariqlodi (Reply # 70)

Dear Tariq Lodi:

Your statement: `` I would have preferred at least two ministers who walk on the gutter littered streets with their trousers tugged high to their knees or ride buses and shop their own groceries, stand in a queue to pay their utility bills and live in rented house.``

Comment: British colonial rule was handed over in 1947 to a new breed of politicians and rulers who generally failed to represent the common people of Pakistan. Your preference/suggestion has some power. I tend to agree with your view, However, a simple cooptation of two such minister will not be sufficient. We need to empower the common people of Pakistan through the devolution of power and make sure that, in the long run, only experienced and tested politicians reach the Cabinet. All others, like you and me (not really politicians), act only as advisors, critics, and scholars.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

concerned: You stated, ``so far of all the people who ruled this country only NS ever came close to the possibility of realization of this dream.`` Could you explain this comment in more detail. How did NS bring Pakistan close to the realization of, ``this dream?``

Finally A Wise Man!

The harsh reality is that we as a ``nation`` have hit rock bottom to an extent that we think that a person who has been trained all his life to be defender of the consitution raped it with vengence and we clapping on his and his teams only conquer ``Pakistan``.

People have different ways of expressing their frustration and I agree with Sameer but even those who were happy puppies three weeks ago are having second thoughts about this mans intentions!

This ``Uniformed Turd`` does not have a clue of what he is doing and the example rests in Kargil.

I sincerly hope that we as a nation stop this ongoing fiasco and give these power hungry generals an exaplary punishment this time so that they dont dare do such an act to us as a nation and to the constitution of the country.

If the turd as he says doesnt know how long will it take to fix these problems the he expected NS to pull a stick out of Turds ``where the sun doesnt shine`` and fix it in a heart beat when country saw the most difficult three years at the international front.

We are expecting miracles as a nation and I believe they still do happen but you know what they take time and so far of all the people who ruled this country only NS ever came close to the possibility of realization of this dream.

FARANGI_KUSH

I assure you that RoohiAD`s comments and opinions will do no harm to Pakistani Nation or Pakistan. Pakistan faces many many problems and all need proper attention. RoohiAD`s criticisms are more directed at one person than against everyone who preferentially speaks urdu. Many people are bitter about this man`s disregard of the most sacred law of the land (constitution) and then asking the people to be law abiding citizens. This man seems to be suggesting that it is okay to run through the red light if your intentions are good. Many people do not buy his arguement and expressing it, either directly or indirectly.

Allah Ditta saab!

Reham srkar Reham karo iss qoum tey.Pehley hi innay masail haygay nay hun tussee navain navain massaley kharey kar rahe ho.

Mein kaun haan? ikk Mutterrwa,per huzoor sirf tin saal da mutterwa sun juddon pakistan bun gya tey mainoon tey putta vee nain see kay abbajan kidr lai ja rae hain-- kee putta see barra hovanga tey tussee vee millo gay ik din inter-net per.

Lekin saree umr punjab da thanda mitha panee pee kay vee sumajh nain aundee main hun vee mutterwa kyonkur haan.Koshish karanga key thora bohut jo mutterwa-pun reh gya hai unnoon vi khatam kar deyan,madad karo gay? ik list phaige deyo kay mainoon mutterway vali kehrhi harkat ya gul nain karni chaheedee.

Apnay Karachi vaale hum-umran noo maim sumjha liyanga.Vaisay vee hun saadi umraan dey loag ghutdey jaa rahay nay.Tussee shaid naujavan ho inshallah Pakistan noo muttwerwa baghair ik din dekho gay.Ik vaada karo? fair kissy noo mutterwa naa akhna.

Allah Ta`llah thwanoon siddhi rah chalan dee taufeeque devay.AAmeen.

The National Security Council, or as I would prefer to call it the National Supreme Council, has been in the minds of the armed forces for long. It is not correct a statement that armed forces have ruled over Pakistan for only 25 years, they have practically been there atleast eversince 1958 coup of Ayub Khan and the rule is a continuation only out of necessity elections ,of the selected, have been held in absence of a satisfactory validation. Now to give the armed forces legitimacy it has been installed. I am not opposed to the idea of National Supreme Council, as I gather there in America also such an institution does exist in an assembly of ten senior most judges of their supreme court and that the vacancy is automatically filled by the next senior most living retired judge. The democracies that we have experienced, where people have been installed, and even if truly elected had been lacking a system by which the people, the voters could not oust the wrongly placed persons. Because of the geography of Pakistan and the composition of our Armed forces may be the masses collectively may have doubts in giving the supreme power to the N.S.C. A way out can be found in that that the N.S.C. be supreme and the armed forces be represented in it proportionately by retired senior officers of repute. This should decide once for all the necessity to impose martial law or setting the constitution in abeyance.

As far as composition of any Commissions, we can not import angels from anywhere. And even if God himself were to come down and correct the wrong He will do it through you and me.

Tariqlodi.

Ref: #47/59.

The same qualifications were of Field Marshall Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, General Niazi Tikka Khan and Zia ul Haq and Fazle Haq, Naseer Akhtar &Babar. One is to know them through writings of General Akbar Khan, Siddiq Salik, and F.S.K. Lodi all uniformed personnel and with out civilian malice. Unfortunately the previous regimes were also star studded with Harvard, Cambridge Oxford and London graduates. Presently to me nothing has changed only the masks. Looking at the list of the cabinet one gets a feeling that stealthily sans INSAF “TEHRIK E INASAF” is being inducted. I would have preferred at least two ministers who walk on the gutter littered streets with their trousers tugged high to their knees or ride buses and shop their own groceries, stand in a queue to pay their utility bills and live in rented house.

Tariq lodi.

Has anyone had a chance to see the BBC video I mentioned in reply 57:

``The interview he gave to BBC can be seen in RealVideo at http://www.pakcyber.com/ppp/. This is a PPP site, but the video is straight from BBC.``

I would appreciate any input.

Re: RoohiAD #66

Planet Earth Calling Allah Ditta Sahib!

Planet Earth Calling Allah Ditta Sahib!

O mai kiya thale ajao jenab.

You have the best conspiracy theories that I have ever come across. They are not only mind-boggling but also amusing every single time.

BTW: Nawaz Sharif is Kashmiri. His village is in the Indian Held Kashmir.

Its not necessary to speak Punjabi to be a Punjabi-that restriction is usually applied by the Pathans. I know many Punjabis who not only don`t speak the language but unfortunately can`t even understand it.

In any case saada jernail Dilli da hoi pawain Lahore da-he`s first and foremost a Pakistani.

Regards,

Amir

I think the following article from the Washington Post does a good job of describing the current situation in Pakistan:

Pakistan`s New Regime Wins Allies

By Pamela Constable

Washington Post Foreign Service

Friday, November 5, 1999; Page A25

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, Nov. 4—Maleeha Lodhi is the sharp-tongued, iconoclastic editor of Pakistan`s best-known English language newspaper, a woman remembered by many in Washington for her three-year stint as the cultured ambassador of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and the left-leaning People`s Party government in the mid-1990s.

Until three weeks ago, Lodhi says, she never would have dreamed of going to work for a military regime, much less becoming one of its most visible mouthpieces. But three weeks is a long time in Pakistan, where political fortunes can shift overnight, democratic rule often proves dictatorial, and many people today view the army as the country`s last remaining credible institution.

So Lodhi, 48, is about to return to Washington, this time as the ambassador representing Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who seized power Oct. 12, suspended parliamentary rule and declared himself chief executive. Her rationale--one echoed by many Pakistani democrats who now say Musharraf deserves the benefit of the doubt--is simple.

``I feel that this is my country`s last chance,`` she said this week. ``My whole life I have opposed military rule, so I had to think long and hard`` about accepting the job. But after meeting with Musharraf, she said she came away ``extremely reassured. I`ve decided to put my career on the line, because I think the military are our last chance to reform or perish.``

Similar arguments are being made by an array of liberal, secular Pakistanis, from journalists to scholars to politicians. Some endured jail and beatings as part of an opposition movement against martial law under Gen. Zia ul-Haq in the 1980s, but now they, too, are becoming apologists for a new military regime. Their change of heart may be genuine, but it is also practical, because Musharraf has made it clear he does not plan to relinquish power any time soon.

In his first news conference Monday, he repeatedly brushed off questions about a timetable for the return to democracy, saying he intends to stay until he is satisfied that his sweeping agenda of uprooting corruption, reviving the economy and reforming the political system is well underway. He hinted at a possible referendum and pledged to keep the army out of daily governance, but his message was clear.

``I will act according to the requirements of the nation and not the outside demands,`` Musharraf, 53, told reporters. Members of the suspended parliament ``were not the true representatives, and I want to give real democracy to the people,`` he said.

As the general settles into power, critics have begun to grumble about several of his controversial choices for top civilian advisory jobs, and about the unhurried pace at which he has begun establishing his government and policies. They note with concern that his top legal aide held a comparable position during Zia`s repressive tenure, and that his foreign minister-designate had prickly relations with India as an ambassador there.

Even Lodhi`s appointment, clearly an effort to reassure Washington, has been criticized as an example of cynical opportunism. One group of Pakistani Americans in Washington circulated a statement this week decrying her as a corrupt, ``glorified hustler`` and ``controversial feminist`` who is not fit to serve as ambassador.

Today, Musharraf named six ministers who will run the country`s day-to-day affairs.

Some Pakistanis, while they welcomed the ouster of unpopular prime minister Nawaz Sharif, now say they worry that Musharraf will become too comfortable in power, or that despite his promises to respect civil rights, he will be tempted to clamp down if public discontent spreads or his reform efforts meet legal and institutional resistance.

``The best martial law is worse than the worst democracy,`` said Dawood Hassan, 40, a shopkeeper in Lahore. ``There are no troops on the streets, but there is also no constitution. If you get arrested, where is the law? The army`s job is to protect our borders, not to rule the people. Let us solve the problems with the leaders we choose.``

But others, including those who were outspoken critics of Sharif`s dictatorial style, insist that Musharraf must be given a chance to enact long-overdue reforms, from instituting a uniform sales tax to prosecuting wealthy bank loan defaulters. Once powerful and moneyed Pakistanis begin to feel the pinch, they argue, the firm hand of the military may well be needed to resist their pressure.

Najam Sethi, a prominent newspaper editor in Lahore whom Sharif briefly jailed this year for criticizing his government, said it is too soon to demand a timetable for restoring democracy. But he added that Musharraf must act quickly, make tough decisions while he is still popular and put lawbreakers behind bars before the public becomes impatient.

``It`s too early to say if these guys will be as good as their word. We are keeping our fingers crossed,`` Sethi said.

Abroad, governments that initially expressed alarm about the coup d`etat continue to soften their stance. U.S. diplomats now say they will be looking for ``benchmarks`` rather than ``timetables`` in progress toward democratic rule. Last week, a visiting delegation of leaders from the Commonwealth countries, which had threatened to suspend Pakistan`s membership, went home praising Musharraf--even though he refused their key demand, to meet with Sharif.

In his first weeks in power, the general has continued to make shrewd public relations gestures aimed at sustaining the initial goodwill. Departing from Pakistan`s traditional VIP behavior, his motorcades are said to stop at red lights, and his aides declare imported goods at customs. Musharraf has also dispatched a distinguished former foreign minister and army chief to Washington, Europe and Japan as a special envoy.

Another reason for his honeymoon at home is that the failings of Sharif and Bhutto, who each served twice as prime minister after martial law ended in the 1980s, soured many Pakistanis on parliamentary politics. Both Sharif`s Pakistan Muslim League and Bhutto`s Pakistan People`s Party are now widely viewed as corrupt and incompetent, leaving the country with no credible alternative to military rule.

Today, both parties are essentially leaderless--Sharif is in military custody and Bhutto, convicted of corruption, lives in exile in London. With parliament suspended, party officials are struggling to position themselves vis-a-vis the military and find a new voice in a society that stopped listening long ago. Some Muslim League members are trying to win military approval, while others insist on remaining loyal to Sharif; but few appear to be engaged in serious soul-searching.

``Our party is at a crossroads. Our leaders have acted like dictators, and politics have been personalized instead of institutionalized. This is our last chance to learn democratic values,`` said Mian Azhar, a senior Muslim League dissident who broke with Sharif months ago.

(THE WASHINGTON POST)

RoohiAD

Jernaile Mutterraf wants to be known as a Lahori!

Well beleive it or not jernaile Mutterraf wants to be known as a Lahori (Punjabi) contrary to the fact that he can`t even speak punjabi, probably he thinks Punjabi as inferior. Jernaile Mutterraf has instructed his military intelligence that the word be spread in interior Punjab that jernaile Mutterraf belongs to Lahore. Then the jernaile claims, he has no political motives; LOL. Let me tell you one thing, when Pakistan came into being, like everyone else, Punjabis were enthusiastic, rather over enthusiastic as my dad recalls. Punjabis played `Ansars` role, they open heartedly accepted Urdu as national language, but Bengalis and Sindhis never did not. Punjab has sufferred because of its giving and scarificing nature. In 1965 and 1971 and now 1999, most of, rather all of shaheeds were from Punjab. I am pleased to say that for past five decades, never ever a government with a Punjabi head of state was never formed through the back door channels. In recent past government from Punjab was formed through elelctions, twice democratically elected PM Nawaz Sharif`s government. This had scared enemies of Pakistan, first time NS was removed though he was doing excellent, again through army pressure; second time the enemies didn`t play it simple,but announced support of NS government and lead to its intriguing downfall. When NS came to power, in both tenures, the opposition formed alliance, and leaders from smaller provinces, mostly feudals, refused to work with NS. Displaying highest level of hatred for Punjab leadership originated from a mid class. Opposition claimed that smaller provinces are being neglected. All the four marshall laws where either imposed by NWFP or Mutter jernails. What is all this nonsense? I beleive that enemies of Pakistan know that they cannot break Pakistan unless the largest province is deprieved of its rights. So their agents in Pakistan continue to do so, and if jernaile Mutterraf on his mission, leading us to another, rather final disaster; To break Pakistan jernaile ji you will have to get rid of NS, may be hang NS and other popular leaders of Punjab, rsulting a strong wave of resentment in Punjab. Keep it up jernaile ji, Allah Hafiz Pakistan. But mind it, if you dare do so, we are still there, we will snatch your skin.

Roohi A Ditta

YET MORE DISAPPOINTMENT OVER CABINET MEMBERS

Ref: Zeemax thanks for the clarification, now I know we have at least someone sensible at this forum!

Usman Aminuddin, though an oil and gas industry related professional, is yet not a suitable selection for the post of minister for petroleum and natural resources. Usman runs his own bussiness in collaboration with one `Shahzad International`` of Islamabad, owned by one Zahid Muzaffar, son of a retd. army general. These people are notorious for being class-I crooks, and their roots are spread deep into the ministry of petroleum and natural resources, that includes Gulfaraz, secretary, the oppotunitist and most dishonest person in the oil industry. Gulfaraz made a shady deal on award of Qadirpur contract for $ 105 million to an Italian firm to oblige the then COAS, general Mirza Aslam Beg. Please note the Italian bid as US$ 43 million more expensive than the lowest bid of a Canadian company that was in full compliance. This great service of Gulfaraz(we better write him Gulloo) gave him a green card with miltary intelligence and ISI ever since. Gulloo was inducted by Benazir, general mirza Aslam Beg helped him survive through with Nawaz tenure, and Gulloo is still in there. All deals for oil and gas industry related concessions and contracts are made through this group of crooks. Well they can serve generals purpose for making easy money over oil deals but imagine how much they are going to loot to give a part of it to the generals.

It appears like general Mutterraf with all his sincerity continues to head for a greater disaster.

Roohi Allah Ditta