Aakar Patel November 5, 1999
#1 Posted by veeresh on November 6, 1999 7:24:46 am
I live a few kilometres away from the Dargah Hazrat Nizammudin Auliya, catch railway trains from the station of the same name next door, drive past the old bridge (till a couple of years ago we could drive OVER the old bridge) made in the days of the Moghuls, often trot over to the Dargah with friends to listen to the qawwalis there, most of which we don`t understand but it still brings us joy, but nobody ever explained it to me like Aakar has done. My father took me there for the first time when I was 12-13 years old, and I remember the old man there telling my father that this was correct, now he will come if he wants to on his own. Thank you, Aakar, often we forget . . .
#2 Posted by Yousuf Saeed on November 6, 1999 7:24:46 am
Nice article, but we can`t be so sure about most of the musical ``inventions`` attributed to Khusro. Present day musicologist do not agree with these claims due to the lack of contemporary evidence. Khusro has certainly nothing to do with Dhrupad for instance. I may also clarify that Meraj Warsi whose name has been mentioned in the article as the head (sajjadah Nashin) of dargah of Nizamudding Aulia, is only a qawwal there. Mr.Hasan Sani Nizami may be the right person to be given that title.
#3 Posted by tahmed321 on November 6, 1999 7:24:46 am
Aakar,
Thanks for this bit on cultural history. Two questions:
First, was it not Amir Khusro who also developed the Sitar?
Second, my understanding of the origins of the Urdu languate is as follows: The word ``Urdu`` stems from the Turkish word ``Urd`` which means ``military camp`` in that language. ``Urd`` incidentally is also the basis for the English word ``horde`` reflecting the manner in which Europeans and Turks interacted for a few centuries. In India, ``Urdu`` bacame was the name given to the ``language of the camp``, where soldiers of different nationalities (Turk, Persian, local Old Punjabi, and so on)developed a kind of pidgin language (the same way the middle class of the sub-continent speaks that weird pidgin half English half Urdu/Hindi. I never heard about Hindvi that you mention though. While I am all for shedding the distrust and animosity that has plagued our two countries, I do suspect that by saying that Hindvi is the mother of Urdu may be stretching the point a bit.
Please explain though, and I may learn something new. Thanks for writing, and I did learn some new things in your article. Regards to the Queen of England.
Thanks for this bit on cultural history. Two questions:
First, was it not Amir Khusro who also developed the Sitar?
Second, my understanding of the origins of the Urdu languate is as follows: The word ``Urdu`` stems from the Turkish word ``Urd`` which means ``military camp`` in that language. ``Urd`` incidentally is also the basis for the English word ``horde`` reflecting the manner in which Europeans and Turks interacted for a few centuries. In India, ``Urdu`` bacame was the name given to the ``language of the camp``, where soldiers of different nationalities (Turk, Persian, local Old Punjabi, and so on)developed a kind of pidgin language (the same way the middle class of the sub-continent speaks that weird pidgin half English half Urdu/Hindi. I never heard about Hindvi that you mention though. While I am all for shedding the distrust and animosity that has plagued our two countries, I do suspect that by saying that Hindvi is the mother of Urdu may be stretching the point a bit.
Please explain though, and I may learn something new. Thanks for writing, and I did learn some new things in your article. Regards to the Queen of England.
#4 Posted by Truth on November 6, 1999 7:24:46 am
This article was going fine till the last paragraph. Maybe the author was pulling Pakistan`s leg when he said Pakistan may be the ``true`` inheritors of Khusro. If the author was serious, he has, in his desire to be generous and open-minded to Pakistan, shown he is a soul-mate of the extreme Hindu nationalists who argue that Indian identity cannot, or rather should not, claim as its own the achievements of its Muslims sons and daughters. The insidious whittling down of India`s composite identity into a Hindu identity is helped along by stupid, thoughtless throw-away lines such as the last paragraph. Or, maybe, I just lack a sense of humor.
#5 Posted by Pu Li on November 6, 1999 8:22:29 am
During the Partition, as the land was shared, each of us, India and Pakistan, got less than the whole. As India`s treasury was divided, again India and Pakistan got less than the whole. However, as the legacy of of our culture was shared, each of us we took home the whole measure. It is up to us to ensure that we pass this on to succeeding generations and maintain the cultural continuity. That, more than anything else, defines us as a people and can serve to unite us as one even as we live across a militarized border.
Thank you for a soul-stirring article.
Thank you for a soul-stirring article.
#6 Posted by temporal on November 6, 1999 11:38:25 am
First things first
==HAPPY DIWALI== to all who enjoy Diwali festivities.
Aakar:
Interesting article. Would argue against the last paragraph though. Perhaps later.
Tell me one thing please. By what stretch of imagination or literary license can this be called an AUTObiography?
regards
t
==HAPPY DIWALI== to all who enjoy Diwali festivities.
Aakar:
Interesting article. Would argue against the last paragraph though. Perhaps later.
Tell me one thing please. By what stretch of imagination or literary license can this be called an AUTObiography?
regards
t
#7 Posted by Jonty on November 6, 1999 2:10:13 pm
I`d like to second Temporal`s sentiments. Shubha Divali to one and all.
``By what stretch of imagination or literary license can this be called an AUTObiography?``
Trust Temporal to spot what us others always seem to miss. Perhaps the explanation is that Mr Patel, being a ``soul-mate of the extreme Hindu nationalists`` as Truth labels him, considers himself Khusro reincarnate.
Seriously though, I agree with both Temporal and Truth. The last paragraph spoiled an otherwise fine tribute. I also can`t help but concur with Truth re ``The insidious whittling down of India`s composite identity into a Hindu identity.`` It`s a growing shame.
BTW, Temporal, how was your holiday?
Regards
``By what stretch of imagination or literary license can this be called an AUTObiography?``
Trust Temporal to spot what us others always seem to miss. Perhaps the explanation is that Mr Patel, being a ``soul-mate of the extreme Hindu nationalists`` as Truth labels him, considers himself Khusro reincarnate.
Seriously though, I agree with both Temporal and Truth. The last paragraph spoiled an otherwise fine tribute. I also can`t help but concur with Truth re ``The insidious whittling down of India`s composite identity into a Hindu identity.`` It`s a growing shame.
BTW, Temporal, how was your holiday?
Regards
#8 Posted by Studebaker on November 6, 1999 2:23:34 pm
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#9 Posted by Truth on November 6, 1999 4:58:40 pm
Studebaker: You have bought into the two-nation theory lock stock and barrel. Its a pity but I dont hold it against you. Another soul lost.
#10 Posted by UR on November 6, 1999 6:52:11 pm
Very nicely written, and very educational. I think it`s about time I took a trip to India.
#11 Posted by temporal on November 6, 1999 9:29:42 pm
Jonty:
Not to take any space or time out of the serious business at hand---if you want to know details pls touch base at temporal3@hotmail.com.
rgds,
t.
Not to take any space or time out of the serious business at hand---if you want to know details pls touch base at temporal3@hotmail.com.
rgds,
t.
#12 Posted by temporal on November 7, 1999 1:05:00 am
BRAJ & KHARIBOLI
In the introductiuon towards understanding Amir Khusrau, Dr. Zoe Ansari says Khusrau spent his early child hood in Patyali, which was the area of Braj speaking populace. After his father`s death Khusrau frequently visited Delhi. He writes, ``Obviously this lad would always be found roaming about the streets, with servants or others in the neighbourhood. This was an area of refined Khari Boli, which he afterwards called Dehlavi or Hindavi. Having a base of Braj, this inquisitve boy must have enriched himself by the knowledge of Dehlavi.``
INVENTION OF SITAR, TABLA & DHOLAK
In Amir Khusrau and Hindustani music Abdul Halim Jafferkhan (b.1927 Jaura, Madhya Pradesh recipient of Padma Shree,1970) writes:
``Hazrat Amir Khusrau has been creditied with a number on inventions and innovatins in the field of music--- vocal as well instrumental........the three most important instruments which are usually attributed to Ameer Khusrau are : Sitar, Tabla and Dholak.``
MORE ON SITYAR & TABLA
In Khusrau`s Musical Compositons, Jaideva SIngh Thakur (b.1893 Gorakhpur, UP recipient of Padma Bhusan, 1974) writes:
``It is generally believed that Khusrau invented the Sitar. But the sitar is only a development of Tritantri Veena of India. There is no proof anywhere that it was invented by Ameer Khusrau..........nowhere in his writings does he mention that he was the inventor of Tabla.``
So here we have two opposite views expressed by two musical scholars. And I am as perplexed as ever.
regards,
t
In the introductiuon towards understanding Amir Khusrau, Dr. Zoe Ansari says Khusrau spent his early child hood in Patyali, which was the area of Braj speaking populace. After his father`s death Khusrau frequently visited Delhi. He writes, ``Obviously this lad would always be found roaming about the streets, with servants or others in the neighbourhood. This was an area of refined Khari Boli, which he afterwards called Dehlavi or Hindavi. Having a base of Braj, this inquisitve boy must have enriched himself by the knowledge of Dehlavi.``
INVENTION OF SITAR, TABLA & DHOLAK
In Amir Khusrau and Hindustani music Abdul Halim Jafferkhan (b.1927 Jaura, Madhya Pradesh recipient of Padma Shree,1970) writes:
``Hazrat Amir Khusrau has been creditied with a number on inventions and innovatins in the field of music--- vocal as well instrumental........the three most important instruments which are usually attributed to Ameer Khusrau are : Sitar, Tabla and Dholak.``
MORE ON SITYAR & TABLA
In Khusrau`s Musical Compositons, Jaideva SIngh Thakur (b.1893 Gorakhpur, UP recipient of Padma Bhusan, 1974) writes:
``It is generally believed that Khusrau invented the Sitar. But the sitar is only a development of Tritantri Veena of India. There is no proof anywhere that it was invented by Ameer Khusrau..........nowhere in his writings does he mention that he was the inventor of Tabla.``
So here we have two opposite views expressed by two musical scholars. And I am as perplexed as ever.
regards,
t
#13 Posted by Zahra on November 7, 1999 1:54:11 am
To Veeresh:
Reading you note and your reference to different historical places I felt like asking you if youo ever get a chance you should take some pictures and please post them on Chowk. Just like someone had taken a look at the life in Pakistan.
It would be very educational to see and read a little on the hostory of the places.
Regards
ZJ
Reading you note and your reference to different historical places I felt like asking you if youo ever get a chance you should take some pictures and please post them on Chowk. Just like someone had taken a look at the life in Pakistan.
It would be very educational to see and read a little on the hostory of the places.
Regards
ZJ
#14 Posted by Zahra on November 7, 1999 1:54:11 am
Oh, I forgot to wish all those who celebrate Diwali as ``Happy Diwali``. I happen to be in an Indian Town today in East Coast and found manyin festive mood so realized that it was a special occasion.
Make sure you enjoy yourself.
Regards
ZJ
Make sure you enjoy yourself.
Regards
ZJ
#15 Posted by Studebaker on November 7, 1999 1:54:11 am
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#16 Posted by Studebaker on November 7, 1999 1:54:11 am
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