IT Pie in the Sky?

Veeresh,

Very interesting article. I think the IT revolution may well be prove to be the wind that moves the sub-continent ship out of the doldrums of poverty. The question is what kind of sails does one need for this. The English language, technical education, an outward looking attitude to life, are surely useful. I was reading somewhere that the expatriate Indian community is now leaving the expatriate Chinese community behind in terms of income levels. This is thanks to the IT revolution.

Malik Sahib,

Just read one of your old articles: ``What Pakistan means to me?``. It was very well-written. You mentioned that your father was a Baluchi. That is nice to know. May I ask which batallion of the Regt.? (just out of curiosity).

I hope you get a chance to visit Jhang one of these days :-)

Amir

I have often wondered about the importance of english language internet in Pakistan. Currently most Pakistani internet users are very well versed in English. Obviously the internet can not become widely available without facilities for people who can not speak english. There is a technical side to this: right to left/bi-directinoal editing capabilities. Showing Urdu text in a platform, font independent way. Having mechanisms to make Urdu websites interactive (search engines, etc.)

Then there are some non-technical things one needs to think about. Will a large enough number of people benefit from the net in a country where phone and electricity (or clean water) are not so `widely` available?

I am sometimes surprised that there seem to be very few Pakistanis who take any sort of a leadership role (so far, myself included). Where as there are a large number of urdu poems in urdu script as graphic format or proprietary fonts, there is little effort to create some sort of a centralized `database.` There seem to be few engineering/computer profession associations; despite the fact that there are a large number of Pakistani`s in those fields. Student involvement is lacking even more. I haven`t followed the Indians much but obviously they are a model for us in this field.

Since this IT revolution is supposed to chage our lives, understanding and being part of it is more than just getting economic benefits out of it by exporting our typing skills.

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I just love seeing my name up at chowk!

To reply:-

TAhmed321: Boss, any English is fine, grammar and syntax can take and have already taken a running jump. We have generations of struggle in our genes, take for example the fun we have over here paying an electricity bill or mutating land records, computers are so simple, all they do is hang!

Nashat: My father, Lakhan Lal Malik was with the 5th Baluch but in 1947 was with the 7th. The names he remembers were Salah ud din, Gulzar Ahmad and Sher Ali Khan . . . any idea if there is any way I can get him in touch with the 5th or 7th Baluch? I shall come to Jhang one day, and weep.

ShaBazC: A lot of television has ``happened`` in India in vernaculars, unsupported by regular electricity. The same should happen with the Net. How? I don`t know, but small town in Tamil Nadu, Irrunkakkottai has 6 cyber cafe, Manali main square has over a dozen and out of Delhi Garhi Harsalu (town frozen in time, even Gandhi was shot there, the railway station still looks like 50 years ago)has 3. It will happen, and we don`t look at any Western model. Most of us in India have graduated from simple shell accounts to where we are in less than 3 years. Just keen to know, when did Internet ``come`` to Pakistan freely?

Studebaker: Boss, I grew up there, in Bihar, and even today I go to a particular village in remote Samastipur badlands to help out in a sustainable model for self-improvement of caste-less religion-free community on a model started by Abdul Ghafoor, long time ago Chief Minister of Bihar. The little aside was not intended to be caricature but realistic portrayal in a patios I slip into as easily as I will into decent urdu when I go to Nizamuddin.

How a small business will run on an investment of about Rs 50,000/= : Transcription services, increasingly being farmed out on a ``work at home paid piece rate`` model. Home computer Internet centre. Go on the Net with the small stuff you make in your home / village / town and sell / export. I am also presuming that once the y2k thing finishes a lot of time will start going on to making the Net really vernacular . . . in India, it is the vernacular media (tv and print) that actually makes money and increasingly calls the shots!

And I promise you this, we got 6th pass type guys who we managed to teach to type and use Word to make Bills of Lading and packing lists and stuff . . . we managed because they WANTED to get ahead.

We just have to find the guys with fire in their stomach. Jha jee just one of them . . .

Cheers/Veeresh Malik

Veeresh:

I knew Uncle Gulzar quite well- I am sure he must be the same chap your father remembers. He passed away last year. He was the senior-most Baluchi officer at the time of his death.

Dear Nashat: Thank you for your prompt reply on Gulzar Ahmad of Baluch. The thought that comes to my mind now, therefore, is that this makes my father the seniormost retired officer from the Baluch regiment alive today. 83, limps, can`t hear too well but otherwise fit, my father walks about 6-8 kilometres a day and insists on driving his own car too.

I don`t know how to do this but I need to see and try if I can get my father together with somebody from the 5th and/or 7th Baluch, so does anybody have any ideas?

Thanks again, Nashat, thanks very much indeed.

Dear Veeresh,

Great to know that your father is doing well. Please say ``Kai Kai Baluch!!`` to the old Warrior for us.

Regards,

Raja Amir Janjua

The IT revolution, in my opinion, is going to re-shuffle the deck of countries in the first-world and the third-world. Already, new leaders like Ireland, Israel, and Singapore are appearing in the first-world. In the third-world, India and China have taken a huge lead over everyone else. Pakistanis at the individual level have achieved some success. However at the national level, in my opinion, Pakistan has yet to jump on the IT ship.

Veeresh ji, great article.

In my bank in New York, there is a floor where we have about 100 programmers and about 60 of the programmers are Indians on H visa. You can hear 3-4 Indian languages in the elevators. Very talented individuals. American managers do not ask these programmers which country u are from,they want to know the state. I know quite a few companies which are going directly to Indian universities to hire their employees.

As u said, all it needs is logical, critical thinking mind and willingness to work hard to get every thing right. Does not need any fancy English school education or daddy ji`s connections.

Pardesi:

I`ve noticed the same thing when I go on company visits to our Silicon Valley site. Lot`s of Indians. In Canada, most of our immigrant programmers are Chinese (mainlanders). They, too, are quite good.

Of course, the quality of their code shows the quality of their education. Unfortunately, critical thinking (who needs that?) and logic (much more important) are not all one needs to be a good IT professional. The ability to work in a team environment, produce READABLE and MAINTAINABLE code, etc. are also paramount.

Although the Americans have found their perfect grunt labour force for IT, they still need an influx of experienced software engineers and project managers who can take the IT industry into the next century. The status quo of over-budgeted projects, slipped schedules and write-once-abandon software is hardly anything to be proud of. But the money to be made is incredible.

Just the perspectives of a cynical industry insider...

I also have to get this off my chest:

Those who think that the emerging IT industry in the thrid world, India and China in particular, will reshape the economic landscape of the world should think again.

I cannot think of a Chinese or Indian company that has taken a leadership role in IT. The successes they are experiencing are nothing more than a trickle-down of wealth from western companies employing their services. The IT industry in these countries, unlike Western countries or Isreal, is entirely service-based. There are no new technlogoies, software or hardware, comming out of these countries. This is very bad.

In contrast, Isreal`s high-tech industry (thanks to ex-soviet immigrants) is almost entirely based on exporting new technlogies. That`s the place to be, if you ask me.

India`s IT industry is nothing to be proud of. It`s nothing but a cyber-sweatshop full of educated eager beavers doing other nation`s dirty IT work. Not because they`re particularily good at what they do, but because they`re DIRT CHEAP. To claim India has a successfull IT industry is akin to claiming that Indonesia is a giant in the sneaker industry since Nike makes most of their sneakers there.

I admit, writing software is a more complicated task than manufacturing sneakers. Perhaps a better example would be GM motor cars being made in Mexico. Mexico is by no means an auto-industry giant.

India`s comfy role in the global IT position is potentially under threat from other emerging nations in Africa and Asia aswell. India maybe cheap, but in time I`m certain another emerging IT economy can offer similar services at an even LOWER price. Don`t think it won`t happen. Programming is not hard, and doesn`t demand an incredible amount of resources (a couple of eager new-grads and a handfull of computers ideally with internet access). It`s simply a matter of time.



Food for thought...sorry if I sound like a party-pooper. I would like to add, though, that there is more than enough talent in India/Pakistan/etc to become leaders in IT. Trick is to convince them to stay home rather then hop on a Jumbo to the west for the big wad`o $$$.

Digit: You have made some interesting comments. I think when one looks at the IT world, one must differentiate amongst two different types of environments. You have done that well by explaining the difference between the IT industry in India and in Israel. When I said India and China are ahead of the, ``other countries,`` I was referring to other countries in the third world. You are correct in saying that on the whole, third-world countries are service providers, and not software exporters.

In my opinion the true strength of India and China in the IT industry is the number of programmers they are exporting. One out of every three to four new companies started in Silicon Valley is by an Indian or Chinese. There is an immense amount of money flowing through the hands of Indian and Chinese immigrants, in the international IT industry. Pakistanis have been successful, as well. It is now up to the governments of these countries to create an environment where this money flows back into their countries. I know this is easier said than done. However, unlike the industrial revolution, which was totally dominated at the entraprenueral and management level by the West, in the IT revolution Indians, Chinese (and to a much smaller extent Pakistanis) do have their fingers in the pie. They are driving part of the revolution; albeit not in their native lands. But this is still a lot better than the industrial revolution scenario.

Regarding, good code and bad code. Are you implying that Indians and Chinese do not code as well as Americans? If this is what you are implying, then I would have to disagree. Also, I think quite a few Asians have moved into mid-level and senior-level management positions in the international IT industry. So they are not just the grunt labor anymore.

Any comments are appreciated...

re: Truth #?

Indians may be providing the ``grunt`` class in the

IT industry right now, but then look at Japan. 50

years back their industry was limited to making

cheap, if unreliable, imitations of western

products. But the knowledge they accumulated

through that allowed them to become major players

in their own right in time.

...and in the meantime we are still reaping the

benefits. IT is perhaps the only industry doing

well in India at this time.

-narain

Veeresh - very nicely written, thanks! Reading all that about Bangalore, Chennai, flights and airports reminds me of how I felt a few months ago when I landed in San Francisco airport. Jokes aside, I truly felt I was in Bangalore or Chennai or any major city in India for that matter! As I descended the escalator, I began to count the number of South Asians and felt Ambassador or Fiat cars would be waiting outside to receive me.

In a span of a week I met so many people from India and all IT professionals, I was happily over-whelmed! My friends said they could practically count all their college buddies working in the IT industry right there in Silicon Valley. ``So, who is left in India if all the brains are here?`` I asked. ``Oh, lots of brains left there... lots of brains!`` Hummm....

=zensufi=

Can indonesia be the pioneer of sparts wear because Nike makes most of the goods there?

The answer is yes, definitely if the wages paid to indonesians is the same that paid to Nike workers in USA.

The only feature that is different in IT when compared to Nike is that the wage differentials are not astronomical. The wage difference between a factory hand in the US and india is around 40, in the case of IT it is around 10 which is encouraging.