In Defence of Benevolent Dictators
Noor Ahmed November 22, 1999
#121 Posted by bahmad on December 10, 1999 4:35:41 pm
In response to Asad_K (Reply # 19)
Dear Asad:
Thank you for drawing my attention toward Professor Mian Ijazul Hasan`s feature article ``In defense of politics`` (Dawn, December 9, 1999). Here is my critique.
Hasan states: ``. . . Pakistan was established through a long and arduous political struggle.``
Comment: This statement needs to be verified. It depends upon how we read, write, and interpret our history.
Hasan states: ``What India achieved quickly, it took us decades - to agree on a constitution of national consensus. Which again, let us not forget, was achieved through a democratic process and not through the expertise of technocrats.``
Comment: Which constitution? Perhaps he means the constitution of 1973, which has been significantly amended (presently suspended, and will perhaps be replaced). A political process is important to reach a consensus. As long as we don`t reach a true national consensus, the constitution would to be treated as a simple paper document. Did the people of Pakistan really approval any constitution? Were they ever asked?
Hasan states: ``It was unfortunate that at independence we inherited a gargantuan state structure suitable to serve the needs of a colonial state which by its very nature is suspicious and hostile to civil society.``
Comment: A gargantuan state structure? No way. Pakistan had a very modest state structure at the time of her inception. Even the colonial state structure was not gargantuan. The colonial state was autocratic, unequal, and exploitative. It, however, was not inefficient, and definitely not as brutal as the neocolonial state of Pakistan.
Hasan states (Deception 1): ``That the common people of Pakistan are illiterate and hence incapable of governing themselves. The vast majority of people of Pakistan would accept the charge that they are illiterate. They would however reject the insinuation of not being able to govern themselves, asserting that they have never ever been allowed to govern themselves. They have never really been allowed to elect their own governments or dismiss them with their own free will.``
Comment: I agree that the capacity of common people to govern themselves has long been undermined by a highly class-structured society of Pakistan. If people were not allowed to govern themselves, what did they do to change the situation. A simple excuse of powerlessness fails to satisfy the conditions of a powerful argument. What was the role of the so-called educated Pakistanis (who in a way held some power)? For example, what was the role of college and university professors? How good teachers were they? How conscientiously did they perform their job?
Hasan states (Deception 2): ``That democracy does not suit out genius. How can we say this when in the 52 years of our existence, half the time was usurped by dictators and during the other half 59 national and provincial assemblies were annulled before they could complete their term and all the 14 prime ministers were ignominiously dismissed. Obviously, under these circumstances democracy is not going to root well.``
Comment: Perhaps there is an element of truth in this deception. What else could we expect in a society where the minds, bodies, and spirits had long been (several hundred years, if not more) colonized by the rich and powerful. We live in a class-structured society, where both poor and middle-class people want to simply imitate the rich and powerful. Of course, without much success).
Hasan states (Deception 3): ``That the national security requirements are such that we need a strong centre and strong vigilant armed forces. But at what cost? At the cost of losing half the country and starving the nation to death?``
Comment: This deception is actually a part of the dominant national discourse in Pakistan. I concur with Hasan`s critique.
Hasan states (Deception 4): ``That our `ideological frontiers` have to be protected from democrats, the minorities, women rights activists, trade unions, the free press and the smaller provinces, who are either Indian agents or members of the international Zionist lobby. It is the direct consequence of this that the nation is today torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence and lawlessness. Instead of national integrity, there is discord. It seems the establishment has learnt nothing from its past blunders and foolishly persists in not only `defending` but also in expanding its so-called ideological frontiers beyond its own physical frontiers.``
Comment: This deception is also a part of our constructed dominant national discourse. We need to challenge it in the greater interest of Pakistan such that we do not dismantle the existing limited unity in Pakistan. I have expressed such views on several occasions.
Hasan states: ``No one can deny that there are corrupt politicians, as there are corrupt judges and corrupt generals. They should all be charged for their misdeeds. It would, however, be interesting to know how many amongst the corrupt politicians were raised in the nursery planted by Ziaul Haq.``
Comment: Corruption has long been present in our society. During the past 52, the level of corruption has continuously been increasing. Zia was not the only culprit. There were many more. It is interesting to note that we still consider corruption as something bad, or we talk about corruption just to let others know that we (read I) are/am not corrupt others are.
Hasan states: ``In a way the manner in which people welcomed General Musharraf was a kind of referendum. But what was the `referendum` about? It was about what the general himself said in his first speech - a) to set the economy right, b) to apprehend defaulters and weed out corruption, c) to depoliticize the state and repair damage done to its institutions, and d) to restore genuine democracy.``
Comment: A good question.
Hasan states: ``It is true that in order to strengthen democracy and bring it within reach of the common citizen, it is imperative that there is devolution of power to the `grassroots` level. In order to achieve this we may have to refine our present structure of local government, giving it more financial and administrative power so that people can make their evaluations and set their own priorities about essential issues which affect their lives. But when we talk about devolution, let us not sidetrack the real issue, which is that it is not devolution from the centre to the districts but from the centre to the federating units. This is the central issue that has blighted our politics and has been glossed over by the proponents of a strong centre. If power is not transferred to the provinces, it can prove fatal for the federation.``
Comment: Hasan`s views about devolution are on the mark (particularly, it is not devolution from the center to the districts but from the center to the federating units).
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
Dear Asad:
Thank you for drawing my attention toward Professor Mian Ijazul Hasan`s feature article ``In defense of politics`` (Dawn, December 9, 1999). Here is my critique.
Hasan states: ``. . . Pakistan was established through a long and arduous political struggle.``
Comment: This statement needs to be verified. It depends upon how we read, write, and interpret our history.
Hasan states: ``What India achieved quickly, it took us decades - to agree on a constitution of national consensus. Which again, let us not forget, was achieved through a democratic process and not through the expertise of technocrats.``
Comment: Which constitution? Perhaps he means the constitution of 1973, which has been significantly amended (presently suspended, and will perhaps be replaced). A political process is important to reach a consensus. As long as we don`t reach a true national consensus, the constitution would to be treated as a simple paper document. Did the people of Pakistan really approval any constitution? Were they ever asked?
Hasan states: ``It was unfortunate that at independence we inherited a gargantuan state structure suitable to serve the needs of a colonial state which by its very nature is suspicious and hostile to civil society.``
Comment: A gargantuan state structure? No way. Pakistan had a very modest state structure at the time of her inception. Even the colonial state structure was not gargantuan. The colonial state was autocratic, unequal, and exploitative. It, however, was not inefficient, and definitely not as brutal as the neocolonial state of Pakistan.
Hasan states (Deception 1): ``That the common people of Pakistan are illiterate and hence incapable of governing themselves. The vast majority of people of Pakistan would accept the charge that they are illiterate. They would however reject the insinuation of not being able to govern themselves, asserting that they have never ever been allowed to govern themselves. They have never really been allowed to elect their own governments or dismiss them with their own free will.``
Comment: I agree that the capacity of common people to govern themselves has long been undermined by a highly class-structured society of Pakistan. If people were not allowed to govern themselves, what did they do to change the situation. A simple excuse of powerlessness fails to satisfy the conditions of a powerful argument. What was the role of the so-called educated Pakistanis (who in a way held some power)? For example, what was the role of college and university professors? How good teachers were they? How conscientiously did they perform their job?
Hasan states (Deception 2): ``That democracy does not suit out genius. How can we say this when in the 52 years of our existence, half the time was usurped by dictators and during the other half 59 national and provincial assemblies were annulled before they could complete their term and all the 14 prime ministers were ignominiously dismissed. Obviously, under these circumstances democracy is not going to root well.``
Comment: Perhaps there is an element of truth in this deception. What else could we expect in a society where the minds, bodies, and spirits had long been (several hundred years, if not more) colonized by the rich and powerful. We live in a class-structured society, where both poor and middle-class people want to simply imitate the rich and powerful. Of course, without much success).
Hasan states (Deception 3): ``That the national security requirements are such that we need a strong centre and strong vigilant armed forces. But at what cost? At the cost of losing half the country and starving the nation to death?``
Comment: This deception is actually a part of the dominant national discourse in Pakistan. I concur with Hasan`s critique.
Hasan states (Deception 4): ``That our `ideological frontiers` have to be protected from democrats, the minorities, women rights activists, trade unions, the free press and the smaller provinces, who are either Indian agents or members of the international Zionist lobby. It is the direct consequence of this that the nation is today torn apart by ethnic and sectarian violence and lawlessness. Instead of national integrity, there is discord. It seems the establishment has learnt nothing from its past blunders and foolishly persists in not only `defending` but also in expanding its so-called ideological frontiers beyond its own physical frontiers.``
Comment: This deception is also a part of our constructed dominant national discourse. We need to challenge it in the greater interest of Pakistan such that we do not dismantle the existing limited unity in Pakistan. I have expressed such views on several occasions.
Hasan states: ``No one can deny that there are corrupt politicians, as there are corrupt judges and corrupt generals. They should all be charged for their misdeeds. It would, however, be interesting to know how many amongst the corrupt politicians were raised in the nursery planted by Ziaul Haq.``
Comment: Corruption has long been present in our society. During the past 52, the level of corruption has continuously been increasing. Zia was not the only culprit. There were many more. It is interesting to note that we still consider corruption as something bad, or we talk about corruption just to let others know that we (read I) are/am not corrupt others are.
Hasan states: ``In a way the manner in which people welcomed General Musharraf was a kind of referendum. But what was the `referendum` about? It was about what the general himself said in his first speech - a) to set the economy right, b) to apprehend defaulters and weed out corruption, c) to depoliticize the state and repair damage done to its institutions, and d) to restore genuine democracy.``
Comment: A good question.
Hasan states: ``It is true that in order to strengthen democracy and bring it within reach of the common citizen, it is imperative that there is devolution of power to the `grassroots` level. In order to achieve this we may have to refine our present structure of local government, giving it more financial and administrative power so that people can make their evaluations and set their own priorities about essential issues which affect their lives. But when we talk about devolution, let us not sidetrack the real issue, which is that it is not devolution from the centre to the districts but from the centre to the federating units. This is the central issue that has blighted our politics and has been glossed over by the proponents of a strong centre. If power is not transferred to the provinces, it can prove fatal for the federation.``
Comment: Hasan`s views about devolution are on the mark (particularly, it is not devolution from the center to the districts but from the center to the federating units).
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
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#120 Posted by kafir K Khan on December 10, 1999 2:29:49 am
There are some similarities between Hitler and Mushraf. Before Hitler came to power, when he was produced in the court on charge of sedition, he told the judge,``yes he is guilty``, giving impression whatever he did,he did it for the country. Few days ago Gen. Musharaf accused the elite, including himself, that they all stand guilty.
Second similarity - after the formation of interim government, Hitler`s trusted official Mr. Strasser had quit just as the Pakistani banker quit the kitchen cabinet appointed by Musharaf.
Third, Hitler had accused that all the problems Germany faced - economic collapse,high unemployment, inflation were the fault of Jews just as is the fault of Indians which is responsible for Pakistan`s anemic economy.Fourth,
nationalism and Nazism of Hitler is no different than Talibanisation of Pakistani society which has polarised the Army and divided Pakistanis.
Yesterday, Pakistani minister of law told the world that former PM is being treated in the prison very well and is provided ``meat``. What nonsense. Is ``meat`` the solution for democracy ?
Shall we all clap at General`s kindness because he let his former boss eat ``meat``. It appears our Pakistani brotheren think nothing except ``meat``. At the rate we are populating the country, there wo`nt be enough ``meat`` for every one. General is very smart.By keeping the interest of the Army above anything else, he can provide enough ``meat`` to his well fed Army. After all why should Panjabi dominated Army care about rest of Pakistan because they are assured of ``meat``.
General should note that men folks of Sharif family are serious when they shout at security gaurds outside Model Town - ``we will see you, let us come back in power``. They imply that they will hang the likes of Musharaf when they come back.
There is a similarity here with Zulfikar Bhutto who kept on swearing revenge on Zia till it dawned on him that he has meeting with Tara Masih.
The fate of Sharif is sealed. If Sharif is not eliminated then it will be Musharaf who will kiss the hangman`s noose. Sharif people will not be generous to Musharaf and certainly will be deprived of ``meat``. General`s turn cometh fast.
Second similarity - after the formation of interim government, Hitler`s trusted official Mr. Strasser had quit just as the Pakistani banker quit the kitchen cabinet appointed by Musharaf.
Third, Hitler had accused that all the problems Germany faced - economic collapse,high unemployment, inflation were the fault of Jews just as is the fault of Indians which is responsible for Pakistan`s anemic economy.Fourth,
nationalism and Nazism of Hitler is no different than Talibanisation of Pakistani society which has polarised the Army and divided Pakistanis.
Yesterday, Pakistani minister of law told the world that former PM is being treated in the prison very well and is provided ``meat``. What nonsense. Is ``meat`` the solution for democracy ?
Shall we all clap at General`s kindness because he let his former boss eat ``meat``. It appears our Pakistani brotheren think nothing except ``meat``. At the rate we are populating the country, there wo`nt be enough ``meat`` for every one. General is very smart.By keeping the interest of the Army above anything else, he can provide enough ``meat`` to his well fed Army. After all why should Panjabi dominated Army care about rest of Pakistan because they are assured of ``meat``.
General should note that men folks of Sharif family are serious when they shout at security gaurds outside Model Town - ``we will see you, let us come back in power``. They imply that they will hang the likes of Musharaf when they come back.
There is a similarity here with Zulfikar Bhutto who kept on swearing revenge on Zia till it dawned on him that he has meeting with Tara Masih.
The fate of Sharif is sealed. If Sharif is not eliminated then it will be Musharaf who will kiss the hangman`s noose. Sharif people will not be generous to Musharaf and certainly will be deprived of ``meat``. General`s turn cometh fast.
#119 Posted by kafir K Khan on December 10, 1999 2:29:49 am
most of the things said about NS are true
#118 Posted by Umairr on December 10, 1999 2:29:49 am
Interesting article from DAWN, Pakistan (Dec 10)
``US rights group blames Nawaz for Army takeover
By Azim M Mian
NEW YORK: For the first time, a human rights organisation has soft words for a military regime, saying: ``The October coup capped a year of increasing discontent with the Sharif administration stemming from its crackdown on opposition political activity and increasing encroachment on civil liberties, with the courts providing only occasional relief.``
Calling the Army takeover as `the most dramatic development during the year`, the US-based organisation `` Human Rights Watch`` in its annual Human Rights Report criticised the Nawaz Sharif government for its treatment of Human Rights and stated: ``By suppressing opposition-led demonstrations and strikes, curtailing civil liberties through repressive ordinances and persecuting NGOs and journalists, the (Nawaz) Sharif administration left civil society battered.``
Blaming Nawaz for offending the Army and his decisions leading to the Army takeover, the report stated: ``Sharif alienated important elements in the Army with his abrupt withdrawal of support in July for militants, who had occupied strategic peaks overlooking Kargil, in the Indian held portion of Kashmir. The subsequent retreat of the militants, who had seized their positions, reduced the danger of Pakistan`s diplomatic isolation; but engendered widespread domestic condemnation and proved to be final catalyst in prompting a military takeover.``
The annual Human Rights Watch Report contains 511 pages with few pages on each country, including the USA, has five pages allocated to Pakistan. The contents of the report on Pakistan clearly indicate that it has been re-written after the fourth Army takeover in Pakistan`s history on October 12, this year.
The report also refers to the intimidation of Jang Group of Newspapers and other media by the Nawaz Sharif government. ``The government`s intimidation of the media emerged as an issue of international concern, as authorities targeted a leading independent newspaper group and several journalists, who had collaborated with a BBC team producing a documentary about the government`s corruption in Pakistan.``
It stated that despite repressive measures by the Nawaz government against NGOs and human rights organisations, human rights activists continued their efforts. The annual world report 2000 also listed many incidents of human rights violations, including murders, arrests and torture during the civilian government of Nawaz Sharif.
It makes a mention of the Army rule and suspension of the Constitution, abolition of the National Assembly and provincial legislatures and formation of the National Security Council; but makes no judgement or condemnation, though it is a routine for Human Rights organisations to condemn every undemocratic government around the globe.`` (DAWN)
Another indication of how bad things were getting
``US rights group blames Nawaz for Army takeover
By Azim M Mian
NEW YORK: For the first time, a human rights organisation has soft words for a military regime, saying: ``The October coup capped a year of increasing discontent with the Sharif administration stemming from its crackdown on opposition political activity and increasing encroachment on civil liberties, with the courts providing only occasional relief.``
Calling the Army takeover as `the most dramatic development during the year`, the US-based organisation `` Human Rights Watch`` in its annual Human Rights Report criticised the Nawaz Sharif government for its treatment of Human Rights and stated: ``By suppressing opposition-led demonstrations and strikes, curtailing civil liberties through repressive ordinances and persecuting NGOs and journalists, the (Nawaz) Sharif administration left civil society battered.``
Blaming Nawaz for offending the Army and his decisions leading to the Army takeover, the report stated: ``Sharif alienated important elements in the Army with his abrupt withdrawal of support in July for militants, who had occupied strategic peaks overlooking Kargil, in the Indian held portion of Kashmir. The subsequent retreat of the militants, who had seized their positions, reduced the danger of Pakistan`s diplomatic isolation; but engendered widespread domestic condemnation and proved to be final catalyst in prompting a military takeover.``
The annual Human Rights Watch Report contains 511 pages with few pages on each country, including the USA, has five pages allocated to Pakistan. The contents of the report on Pakistan clearly indicate that it has been re-written after the fourth Army takeover in Pakistan`s history on October 12, this year.
The report also refers to the intimidation of Jang Group of Newspapers and other media by the Nawaz Sharif government. ``The government`s intimidation of the media emerged as an issue of international concern, as authorities targeted a leading independent newspaper group and several journalists, who had collaborated with a BBC team producing a documentary about the government`s corruption in Pakistan.``
It stated that despite repressive measures by the Nawaz government against NGOs and human rights organisations, human rights activists continued their efforts. The annual world report 2000 also listed many incidents of human rights violations, including murders, arrests and torture during the civilian government of Nawaz Sharif.
It makes a mention of the Army rule and suspension of the Constitution, abolition of the National Assembly and provincial legislatures and formation of the National Security Council; but makes no judgement or condemnation, though it is a routine for Human Rights organisations to condemn every undemocratic government around the globe.`` (DAWN)
Another indication of how bad things were getting
#117 Posted by rajanjua on December 10, 1999 2:29:49 am
Re: #118 RoohiAD
Behn Ji,
Don`t you know that Altaf Hussain is the greatest leader Pakistan has known since Jinnah :-). According to you he can somehow magically transform the 14 MNAs from Karachi into 300 MNAs-I say that we should in that case let the Karachiwallahs rule Pakistan just as a reward for this miracle and rename Lahore to Altafpur and Islamabad to Musharafabad.
On a serious note-why is it that you don`t like Gen. Kamal Musharaf apart from the fact that he is a mutterwa.
Amir Janjua
Behn Ji,
Don`t you know that Altaf Hussain is the greatest leader Pakistan has known since Jinnah :-). According to you he can somehow magically transform the 14 MNAs from Karachi into 300 MNAs-I say that we should in that case let the Karachiwallahs rule Pakistan just as a reward for this miracle and rename Lahore to Altafpur and Islamabad to Musharafabad.
On a serious note-why is it that you don`t like Gen. Kamal Musharaf apart from the fact that he is a mutterwa.
Amir Janjua
#116 Posted by MQ_Rahat on December 9, 1999 3:15:24 pm
Appeal to Justice Shabbir Ahmed, Administrative Judge of the Anti-Terrorism Courts of the province of Sindh.
Nations die and live on decisions of such trails. A democratically elected and the constitutional Prime Minister of Pakistan, and his government was hijacked by a military dictator on 12 October 1999. No matter what they say, under the constitution of Pakistan, whose keepers are the judges, the present millitary set-up is illegimate. So an illegimate government is trying to kill its political opponent, the rightful constitutional prime minister of Pakistan, using the juduciary. This is a personnal vendetta of general Musharraf, and you should not be a party to it. By the constitution of Pakistan, army action of 12 October 1999 is illegal, and so is the basis of this case under hearing before you. If you are man enough raise before this unfairness and the nation will remember you as a hero. There were so many who lived and died to the will of their worldly masters, you please raise above them, and acquit all the elected representatives, please. Allah have Mercy on us.
Rahat
Nations die and live on decisions of such trails. A democratically elected and the constitutional Prime Minister of Pakistan, and his government was hijacked by a military dictator on 12 October 1999. No matter what they say, under the constitution of Pakistan, whose keepers are the judges, the present millitary set-up is illegimate. So an illegimate government is trying to kill its political opponent, the rightful constitutional prime minister of Pakistan, using the juduciary. This is a personnal vendetta of general Musharraf, and you should not be a party to it. By the constitution of Pakistan, army action of 12 October 1999 is illegal, and so is the basis of this case under hearing before you. If you are man enough raise before this unfairness and the nation will remember you as a hero. There were so many who lived and died to the will of their worldly masters, you please raise above them, and acquit all the elected representatives, please. Allah have Mercy on us.
Rahat
#115 Posted by Assad_K on December 9, 1999 3:15:24 pm
Mr. Ahmed,
I personally preferred the article `In defence of politics` by Prof Mian Ijazul Hasan in todays Dawn, and find myself agreeing with pretty much most of what he says.
I personally preferred the article `In defence of politics` by Prof Mian Ijazul Hasan in todays Dawn, and find myself agreeing with pretty much most of what he says.
#114 Posted by RoohiAD on December 9, 1999 3:15:24 pm
IT`S THE ARMY OF CORRUPT GENERALS
Well dear friends! Normalization with India is something that the Pakistan army has always resisted so far. If we normalise with India, then there is no justification for maintaining such a heavy head and the worthless army any longer. The Pakistan army generals have always opposed to this idea, because they loose their importance, chances to loot and rule the country. One thing is for sure that Mian Nawaz Sharif, the constitutional Prime Minister of Pakistan had taken quite a few concrete steps in this direction that resulted USA`s interest towards resolution of Kashmir, and Clintons` latest staement on Kashmir is reflective of this arrangement. Nawaz had realized that prosperity of Pakistani masses is not possible without cutting the defense spendings and increasing investment in state welfare budget. So Lahore Agreement was initiated; but the Pakistan army generals launched Kargil, a mis-adventure that everyone knows, aimed at sabotaging the process. Then finally, the army overthrew the elected government, all this was to stop the normalization process with India. Friends of Chowk, can a poor country like ours continue to feed a huge army; and its generals like Musharraf and others, who have amassed 9 to 11 plots of residential lands and agricultural lands, just because of their employment with army; and are claiming clean. This general is certainly very clever and teacherous. Also another report is to be noted, according to which the general Musharraf military government have made a deal with Altaf Hussain of MQM; according to which Altaf Hussain will vacate the leadership of MQM and let clean MQM people like Musharraf come forward on MQM platform, so that next elections, if any, could be engineered for MQM victory or at least with greater representation towards MQM in power. Why all this conspiracy general Mutterraf Ji? While the rightful owners of the land, the people of Pakistan are deprived from their own rule; they live miserably. I quote Faiz... ``Dekein gaye hum dakein gaye, Lazim haye keh hum bhi dakein gaye``. People of Pakistan, it is not Benazir, Zardari or Nawaz Sharif, it is these corrupt generals. Pakistanis must raise their voice against this armed oppression before its too late, and the dream is lost.
Roohi A. Ditta
Well dear friends! Normalization with India is something that the Pakistan army has always resisted so far. If we normalise with India, then there is no justification for maintaining such a heavy head and the worthless army any longer. The Pakistan army generals have always opposed to this idea, because they loose their importance, chances to loot and rule the country. One thing is for sure that Mian Nawaz Sharif, the constitutional Prime Minister of Pakistan had taken quite a few concrete steps in this direction that resulted USA`s interest towards resolution of Kashmir, and Clintons` latest staement on Kashmir is reflective of this arrangement. Nawaz had realized that prosperity of Pakistani masses is not possible without cutting the defense spendings and increasing investment in state welfare budget. So Lahore Agreement was initiated; but the Pakistan army generals launched Kargil, a mis-adventure that everyone knows, aimed at sabotaging the process. Then finally, the army overthrew the elected government, all this was to stop the normalization process with India. Friends of Chowk, can a poor country like ours continue to feed a huge army; and its generals like Musharraf and others, who have amassed 9 to 11 plots of residential lands and agricultural lands, just because of their employment with army; and are claiming clean. This general is certainly very clever and teacherous. Also another report is to be noted, according to which the general Musharraf military government have made a deal with Altaf Hussain of MQM; according to which Altaf Hussain will vacate the leadership of MQM and let clean MQM people like Musharraf come forward on MQM platform, so that next elections, if any, could be engineered for MQM victory or at least with greater representation towards MQM in power. Why all this conspiracy general Mutterraf Ji? While the rightful owners of the land, the people of Pakistan are deprived from their own rule; they live miserably. I quote Faiz... ``Dekein gaye hum dakein gaye, Lazim haye keh hum bhi dakein gaye``. People of Pakistan, it is not Benazir, Zardari or Nawaz Sharif, it is these corrupt generals. Pakistanis must raise their voice against this armed oppression before its too late, and the dream is lost.
Roohi A. Ditta
#113 Posted by bahmad on December 9, 1999 6:32:25 am
In an opinion piece, ``Islam, democrcy and military rule``, Professor Khalid Bin Sayeed writes (The News International, December 9, 1999):
``The only way out of the morass that the present military rulers of Pakistan are in the process of landing themselves into is to announce a clear commitment that the only objective that these rulers seek is the social and economic well being of the great majority of their common people. Such an announcement by itself is not enough. They have to go on record and state clearly that they propose to accomplish a more than modest well-being in the conditions of their people within a certain stated period of two or three years.``
Comment: It is relatively easy for Musharraf to announce that he seeks ``the social and economic well being of the great majority of . . . common people.`` Musharraf could also go on record and state that he proposes ``to accomplish a more than modest well-being in the conditions of . . . [common] people.`` No problem, so far. What is really challenging is to make such declarations a reality. Is there any way that this could be achieved within the next ``two or three years``? How about next ten year? Professor Sayeed himself has fallen short of providing any hint. Maybe he has already said it in his publications. I will search for the same. Finally, it may take another two-three years to clear the existing mess. May be there will be some new mess created during this period? Who knows? Let us wait and see. How long the people of Pakistan will tolerate a military regime? Experience suggests, not more than 10-11 years.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
``The only way out of the morass that the present military rulers of Pakistan are in the process of landing themselves into is to announce a clear commitment that the only objective that these rulers seek is the social and economic well being of the great majority of their common people. Such an announcement by itself is not enough. They have to go on record and state clearly that they propose to accomplish a more than modest well-being in the conditions of their people within a certain stated period of two or three years.``
Comment: It is relatively easy for Musharraf to announce that he seeks ``the social and economic well being of the great majority of . . . common people.`` Musharraf could also go on record and state that he proposes ``to accomplish a more than modest well-being in the conditions of . . . [common] people.`` No problem, so far. What is really challenging is to make such declarations a reality. Is there any way that this could be achieved within the next ``two or three years``? How about next ten year? Professor Sayeed himself has fallen short of providing any hint. Maybe he has already said it in his publications. I will search for the same. Finally, it may take another two-three years to clear the existing mess. May be there will be some new mess created during this period? Who knows? Let us wait and see. How long the people of Pakistan will tolerate a military regime? Experience suggests, not more than 10-11 years.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
#112 Posted by SameerJB on December 8, 1999 7:15:36 am
CASE OF TWO COUNTRIES/ THE UNTHINKABLE IN INDIA
Only in Pakistan one can belongs to a 65% majority and be proud of the largest ethnic group. Do you understand, my friend, what it means to be a majority? you don`t, because.....
India ia a Union of Eternal Ethnic Minorities where each and every group is a minority as compared to all others combined. At present, India is the only country where everybody is a minority. There was one more country until recently. Can you name it? If your answer is Yugoslavia, you are right. You know, what happened to them.
I have always sympathised with the plight of the minorities, so I symphatise with Indian people. My dear cousins were fed a diet of secularism, democracy and history of British Raj and Mughals to feel a sense of nationhood. Unfortunately, west had more claim to secularism and democracy and my neighbors were left to chew upon the history of last 500 years and this was not enough to satisfy the apetite of my cousins. They were still hungry for some `real identity`. So BJP created the Hinutva or Hindu Nationalism. My friends this is the reason, I do not mind BJP at all Because I understand it has to do with a sense of majority feeling than to do with the great and beautiful religion of Hinduism. In Pakistan, majority ethnic group does not need any religous identity. That is why Islamic fundamentalist parties perform miserably in the elections.
You may be wondering about the minorities groups in Pakistan. They are content and satisfied because at least they are significant percent of the population as compared to what they would have been in a united India, tiny and insignificant minorities.
We will either have two nations or twenty nations but no chance of being one nation again mainly because once you taste the feelings being a majority, you get addicted to it. But how would you know???
BTW congratulations that our cousin, Yakta Mookhey has won Miss World Title. She is really a very pretty girl.
Only in Pakistan one can belongs to a 65% majority and be proud of the largest ethnic group. Do you understand, my friend, what it means to be a majority? you don`t, because.....
India ia a Union of Eternal Ethnic Minorities where each and every group is a minority as compared to all others combined. At present, India is the only country where everybody is a minority. There was one more country until recently. Can you name it? If your answer is Yugoslavia, you are right. You know, what happened to them.
I have always sympathised with the plight of the minorities, so I symphatise with Indian people. My dear cousins were fed a diet of secularism, democracy and history of British Raj and Mughals to feel a sense of nationhood. Unfortunately, west had more claim to secularism and democracy and my neighbors were left to chew upon the history of last 500 years and this was not enough to satisfy the apetite of my cousins. They were still hungry for some `real identity`. So BJP created the Hinutva or Hindu Nationalism. My friends this is the reason, I do not mind BJP at all Because I understand it has to do with a sense of majority feeling than to do with the great and beautiful religion of Hinduism. In Pakistan, majority ethnic group does not need any religous identity. That is why Islamic fundamentalist parties perform miserably in the elections.
You may be wondering about the minorities groups in Pakistan. They are content and satisfied because at least they are significant percent of the population as compared to what they would have been in a united India, tiny and insignificant minorities.
We will either have two nations or twenty nations but no chance of being one nation again mainly because once you taste the feelings being a majority, you get addicted to it. But how would you know???
BTW congratulations that our cousin, Yakta Mookhey has won Miss World Title. She is really a very pretty girl.
#111 Posted by jay on December 7, 1999 6:49:24 pm
THE UNTHINKABLE IN PAKISTAN
`Cop`s FIR against Minister legally valid`
HT Correspondent (New Delhi, December 7)
CONSTITUTIONAL AND legal experts feel that the Chief Minister`s stand that the Police should have informed her, the Assembly Speaker and Transport Minister himself before registering an FIR against the concerned Minister about an alleged case of assault on a cop-on-duty in Zakir Nagar, is on a legally untenable premise.
`Cop`s FIR against Minister legally valid`
HT Correspondent (New Delhi, December 7)
CONSTITUTIONAL AND legal experts feel that the Chief Minister`s stand that the Police should have informed her, the Assembly Speaker and Transport Minister himself before registering an FIR against the concerned Minister about an alleged case of assault on a cop-on-duty in Zakir Nagar, is on a legally untenable premise.
#110 Posted by jay on December 7, 1999 6:49:24 pm
CASE OF TWO COUNTRIES.
The following news item summarises the difference between india and pakistan. For once, may be it is time for pakistanis on the chowk to chart a course for their country, with out caring about india. Just think of the enormity of the difference, in one country the defaulters and their relatives are sent to prison while in the other govt is planning some support packages for the defaulters. What difference TNT has made in 50 years.
Rehab scheme for defaulting small units soon
HT Correspondent (New Delhi, December 7)
THE FINANCE Ministry will shortly present a new scheme to rehabilitate the small scale sector (SSIs) which are unable to repay their debts and have closed down their operations.
The scheme would include a package for the SSIs, which would prefer to hedge their loans against new insurance products expected to be available once the sector is opened for private participation.
The finance ministry is expected to announce the new scheme very soon, with SIDBI as the operational bank for this.
The following news item summarises the difference between india and pakistan. For once, may be it is time for pakistanis on the chowk to chart a course for their country, with out caring about india. Just think of the enormity of the difference, in one country the defaulters and their relatives are sent to prison while in the other govt is planning some support packages for the defaulters. What difference TNT has made in 50 years.
Rehab scheme for defaulting small units soon
HT Correspondent (New Delhi, December 7)
THE FINANCE Ministry will shortly present a new scheme to rehabilitate the small scale sector (SSIs) which are unable to repay their debts and have closed down their operations.
The scheme would include a package for the SSIs, which would prefer to hedge their loans against new insurance products expected to be available once the sector is opened for private participation.
The finance ministry is expected to announce the new scheme very soon, with SIDBI as the operational bank for this.
#109 Posted by Umairr on December 7, 1999 6:49:24 pm
Check out the following website for a detailed description of the corruption of NS:
http://www.best.com/
http://www.best.com/
#108 Posted by Assad_K on December 7, 1999 11:35:22 am
Zeemax re:110
Oh, I`ve always been around.. however, continually repeating my objections to NS or theorizing about the motivations of the new gov (since I`m not in it, all I CAN do is theorize) would be pointless.
1) The article that led to your outburst against gutter press WAS from the Dawn. So, for that matter, are columnists whom you (probably!) object to ie Cowasjee, Amir and Husein. However, all of them were printing anti-NS columns well before the coup (because they weren`t paid off? Well, I obvuously don`t have access to your information sources!). I`ve always tended to regard the English language press as more independent and less toeing of the gov line (whichever gov it is) than Urdu/regional papers, but that may just be my preconceptions.
2) You were a ZAB supporter, weren`t you? Unfortunately, everything I`ve read in history points at him as being one of the greatest villains in Pakistans history. People were committing suicide over economic reasons after 2 years of NS.. should be interesting to see what could happen that would make them rise up. Unfortunately, I don`t quite see the rich through the sympathetic eye that you do, as being regular taxpayers, honest and generally positive contributors to society. Those being targeted are not, for a change, of one political stripe only. The class conflict exists already. And as the rich, being in positions of power, both political and otherwise, are the ones reponsible for the (lack of ) equitable wealth distribution, they`re hardly blameless. No, I wouldn`t support a Stalinisque purge of the rich etc, or a communistic `everyone`s equal, death to the rich`. But I DO expect them to pay their dues like the salaried class.
4) I`d be disappointed if the midnight knock does come, indeed. As Najam Sethi got..? Ah, well, at least NS` tongue and other organs are intact, unlike Zardari (if all the talk is true..). However, starting midnight knocks is generally an indication of the beginning of the end for any gov. Let`s see. As before.. I`m optimistic.
Oh, I`ve always been around.. however, continually repeating my objections to NS or theorizing about the motivations of the new gov (since I`m not in it, all I CAN do is theorize) would be pointless.
1) The article that led to your outburst against gutter press WAS from the Dawn. So, for that matter, are columnists whom you (probably!) object to ie Cowasjee, Amir and Husein. However, all of them were printing anti-NS columns well before the coup (because they weren`t paid off? Well, I obvuously don`t have access to your information sources!). I`ve always tended to regard the English language press as more independent and less toeing of the gov line (whichever gov it is) than Urdu/regional papers, but that may just be my preconceptions.
2) You were a ZAB supporter, weren`t you? Unfortunately, everything I`ve read in history points at him as being one of the greatest villains in Pakistans history. People were committing suicide over economic reasons after 2 years of NS.. should be interesting to see what could happen that would make them rise up. Unfortunately, I don`t quite see the rich through the sympathetic eye that you do, as being regular taxpayers, honest and generally positive contributors to society. Those being targeted are not, for a change, of one political stripe only. The class conflict exists already. And as the rich, being in positions of power, both political and otherwise, are the ones reponsible for the (lack of ) equitable wealth distribution, they`re hardly blameless. No, I wouldn`t support a Stalinisque purge of the rich etc, or a communistic `everyone`s equal, death to the rich`. But I DO expect them to pay their dues like the salaried class.
4) I`d be disappointed if the midnight knock does come, indeed. As Najam Sethi got..? Ah, well, at least NS` tongue and other organs are intact, unlike Zardari (if all the talk is true..). However, starting midnight knocks is generally an indication of the beginning of the end for any gov. Let`s see. As before.. I`m optimistic.
#107 Posted by parmid on December 7, 1999 11:35:22 am
Well, I agree with your basic thesis but I wish you had not glossed over Zia`s regime. It was as bad as anything that followed it. Worse, because it corrupted politicians through political loans and today we have a totally bankcrupt economy as a result.
#106 Posted by zeemax on December 7, 1999 1:56:02 am
Assad_K Re # 101 -
c.c He Had No Choice.
Well nice to see you back.
1) It`s unfortunate but true that most of the press in Pakistan is what`s termed as Yellow Journalism or Gutter press. They would print anything to sell their few ruppees worth of newspaper. Some influential columnists are known blackmailers and extort money openly from any government in power. The most powerful news paper groups gladly manufacture and print disinformation in return for Government advertising business. You would recall the character assasination which has occured after the departure of every single leader of this country from power. I suspect the fate of Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah would have been the same had he not passed away prematurely. God was kind to him and saved him from the hands of such treachery.
Above is the sole reason why there`s always a very powerful Information Ministry by every government in Pakistan - to negotiate and deal with the character-less press. The most poignant example is the most recent induction in the Federal cabinet - Javed Jabbar as special advisor to the CE on Media. At first the regime thought there was no need for one and the job could be handled by Inter Services Public Relations Div.,( He said the cabinet would be no more than 6 members .. how many are there now ? I`ve lost count !) but they found out that they needed a specialist intriguer like Javed Jabbar to broker with the press. Javed Jabbar has been around since the 70`s and has been a known manipulator. He was a senator during BB`s last term and never even made a speech on the senate floor much less than contributing anything towards this country. So why does the regime need him ?
The only publications in my opinion which are NOT Gutter press are the daily Dawn, and Pakistan Punch-www.pakistanpunch.com .. the latter in a lighter vain.
2) I don`t expect the people to rise. People of Pakistan no longer rise for political reasons alone after the psychological numbing resultant from the hanging of ZA Bhutto; which explains the general indifference over the military coup. Indifference mind you and not support. But the people WILL rise for economic reasons once the effects of this coup begin to bite. The regime for it`s survival is trying to create a class conflict by targeting the rich in a Robin Hood kind of manner but it hasn`t delivered and nor is it likely to. If and when the masses come to the streets no one will be spared in an Iranian kind of scenario .. In fact in their frustration all they`re waiting for is an Ayatollah ... any Ayatollah !
3) No the Mutt isn`t meant as any kind of ethnic slur. Since there`s a misunderstanding over this I retract it. In fact it was meant as a stray variety of the canine species.
4) The mid-night knock hasn`t come yet. I remember in one of your earlier posts you had said that you would be very disappointed if that knock came. I respect your empathy.
Rgds
c.c He Had No Choice.
Well nice to see you back.
1) It`s unfortunate but true that most of the press in Pakistan is what`s termed as Yellow Journalism or Gutter press. They would print anything to sell their few ruppees worth of newspaper. Some influential columnists are known blackmailers and extort money openly from any government in power. The most powerful news paper groups gladly manufacture and print disinformation in return for Government advertising business. You would recall the character assasination which has occured after the departure of every single leader of this country from power. I suspect the fate of Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah would have been the same had he not passed away prematurely. God was kind to him and saved him from the hands of such treachery.
Above is the sole reason why there`s always a very powerful Information Ministry by every government in Pakistan - to negotiate and deal with the character-less press. The most poignant example is the most recent induction in the Federal cabinet - Javed Jabbar as special advisor to the CE on Media. At first the regime thought there was no need for one and the job could be handled by Inter Services Public Relations Div.,( He said the cabinet would be no more than 6 members .. how many are there now ? I`ve lost count !) but they found out that they needed a specialist intriguer like Javed Jabbar to broker with the press. Javed Jabbar has been around since the 70`s and has been a known manipulator. He was a senator during BB`s last term and never even made a speech on the senate floor much less than contributing anything towards this country. So why does the regime need him ?
The only publications in my opinion which are NOT Gutter press are the daily Dawn, and Pakistan Punch-www.pakistanpunch.com .. the latter in a lighter vain.
2) I don`t expect the people to rise. People of Pakistan no longer rise for political reasons alone after the psychological numbing resultant from the hanging of ZA Bhutto; which explains the general indifference over the military coup. Indifference mind you and not support. But the people WILL rise for economic reasons once the effects of this coup begin to bite. The regime for it`s survival is trying to create a class conflict by targeting the rich in a Robin Hood kind of manner but it hasn`t delivered and nor is it likely to. If and when the masses come to the streets no one will be spared in an Iranian kind of scenario .. In fact in their frustration all they`re waiting for is an Ayatollah ... any Ayatollah !
3) No the Mutt isn`t meant as any kind of ethnic slur. Since there`s a misunderstanding over this I retract it. In fact it was meant as a stray variety of the canine species.
4) The mid-night knock hasn`t come yet. I remember in one of your earlier posts you had said that you would be very disappointed if that knock came. I respect your empathy.
Rgds
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