The Case for De jure Legalization

The way I figure, the legalization of alcohol will end all sectarian violence!

bottoms up

Ref Fuzair #: 2



You say {Having worked in the Northern Areas, I know that the type of tourist one really wants is not the student backpacker/hiker that is on a very limited budget but the tourist that stays in a good (read: expensive) hotel and spends $250 plus per day at the very minimum. This category of tourist wants a nice place to stay, a bar and a nightclub/disco to go to in the evening to relax, and so on.}

So, who are they going to dance with at the disco? Don`t you think you might have to import girls from Hira Mandi? You think anybody would want to dance with somebody inside a shuttlecock burqua? Remove the ban on alcohol and next the burqua will be gone. Who will then buy all the cloth that we weave in our leader Nawaz Sharief`s mills?

Legalization of alcohol is the first step along a slippery slope! Eternal vigilance is the price of Islamic virtue! And you will be betraying Mahatma Gandhi, Father of the Nation, who demanded prohibition.

Er, wrong nation, wrong notion... man, I got to lay off the bottle.

From the pen of one of the greatest Pakistanis that has ever lived:

`I passed through this world
when it was so ordained,
the dark of night in my eyes
and the blaze of the sun in my heart.
And at the time ordained,
I came to stand before
the throne of the Almighty,
a paean of praise on my lips
and a glass of wine in my hand.`

Faiz Ahmed Faiz

(Just could not resist sharing this one. It decorates my office wall.
Ras)

The short version of a majority of the comments that have been placed so far is that once you legalise alcohol, you have no choice but to legalise heroin/marijuana/child prostitution. Logically, the argument is moronic because (a) people in the West do generally distinguish between alcohol and other, more powerful stimulants such as heroin and the distinction is not seen as without justification and, (b) even Pakistan allows the legal sale and consumption of other drugs, i.e. caffeine and nicotine.

The point which has been overlooked is that institutionalised hypocrisy on such a large scale corrodes the national fabric and the widespread consumption of alcohol -- along with its legal prohibition -- makes for a society which is, quite literally, two-faced.

The final point is that despite 25 years of prohibition, no change in Pakistani drinking habits has occurred. Alcohol is different from heroin and trying to stamp it out in Pakistan is not going to succeed anymore than it did in the US. So, the government might as well make money off it.

By the way, the current price of a bottle of J & B in Pakistan (specifically Lahore) is about Rs. 2200 ($40 approx). The same thing costs less than $ 20 wholesale/duty free. That difference would not only go straight into the pocket of the government but as a tax, it would be a lot less retrogressive than the taxes on electricity and petrol which we as Pakistanis are forced to suffer. Personally, I think even the poor people of Pakistan would rather have their tax burden lightened than have their tax dollars wasted on some futile masquerade of a prohibition effort which only gives extra opportunity to the police and the customs-wallahs to make some money on the side.

Cheers.

I`ll drink to that !

A BOTTLE OF WHISKEY

Yes, alchohol should be taken off the list of prohibited substances. The revenue generation would be very substantial. The revenue potential of beer sales in Pakistan alone generate enormous cash. Murree brewery would expand along with other companies. Naturally the quality of whiskey produced in the country would improve. Current whiskies, like Lion contain a lot of wild alchohols which can cause brain damage. Our chief executive - an avid drinker - probably drank a lot of Lion Whiskey - in his student days as a young officer. On a more serious note - it has been rumoured that there was a dissenting judgement given in the Federal Shariat Court wherein the author posited that Islam did not prohibit consumption of Alcohol.

What an excellent rebuttal Asfind!

What else can you expect from a firangi-educated mind other than these `gems` of idiocy.

Somehow it has entered the heads of the firangi brain-washed characters that they are aquiring knowledge.Any paradigm can be promoted to such kind of travesty.If it is working for the firangi then it is fine,who am I to object.If the firangies want to loll & roll in their depravities then the sooner & more often they do it the better it is for us.

It pains me to see some of our otherwise bright fellows following this pied-piper of immorality to be led into the cesspool of Aids-infested,incest riddled,excrement eating,drug dosed & gay gartered murkiness.

Afterall the prime requirement for a `barrister` was(is?) to be called to the bar & demostrate that he can follow the firangi---the cultural third-world .

Methinks people are taking Omar`s suggestion rather seriously. Hmmm...I thought the article

was quite amusing...

``...thereby recognizing the reality that consumption is an individual choice of conscience.``

This bit was a tad patronizing though.

This too:

``The farce of religiosity from the days of Z.A.B, thru Zia ul Haq & Nawaz Sharif should not be allowed to dictate the character of this this debate. Substance, not hyperbole, should become the norm in politics ``

What debate? If alcohol is ever legalized it will be by decree of the ruling elite. You ask for substance, but any mention of religious norms will raise cries of Talbabization. Talk about ``Human Rights`` and you`ll be accused of being an agent for colonialist forces. Talk about hyperbole. Pakistan is full of fanatics and fundementalists....secular or religious. GOOD LUCK in trying to have debates with substance...

Secular point of view:

``Consumption is an individual choice of conscience. We cannot allow religious zeolots to dictate to those who don`t share the same faith. It violates our dogmas of Human Rights blah blah blah, which must be worshipped and reign supreme. No further debate on this is possible.``

Religious point of view:

``Consumption is haram. We cannot allow westernized liberal zelots to dictate to the beliving masses, who don`t happen to hold a secular world view. It violates our dogma that Sharia law must be held supreme blah blah blah. No further debate on this is possible.``

In a society that doesn`t allow drinking, what GOOD reason can there be for allowing it? The only reasons I can think of are at least as good as why the status quo shouldn`t be changed. So let`s not waste our time and think of something better to do.

Rationality is the backbone of debate. You can`t talk rationally on this subject. Expect emotions to fly.

Now there you go Omar, now you got me talking seriously about this article. But I gotta know: are you kidding or are you a nut? :)

Just kidding...

``Kemal Musharraf``. He he he. I liked that. The last thing we need is an ``Attapakistani``.

Lord knows, ANOTHER tyrant would be BAD news...

Yet Another Proposal.

It is a well known fact in Pakistan that despite the policy of criminalization of consumption of cocaine followed by the government, for Muslims over the past 25 years, it continues to be freely available to those who can afford to imbibe it. The people who have benefited the most from the situation are the politically influential smugglers who continue to make vast amounts of money in this illegal trade. Locally produced cocaine is also freely available in Cocaine shops in Karachi, where not even the slightest pretense of checking the religious identity of the buyers is made because the cops have been paid off.

Thus, the present system has induced massive corruption. In line with the government`s anti-corruption drive, it is suggested that the government of Kemal Musharraf legalize the consumption of cocaine by all citizens within the privacy of their own homes, and in private clubs, in order to curb smuggling, limit opportunities for police corruption, harassment of otherwise law abiding citizens, and increase customs duty imposts, thereby recognizing the reality that consumption is an individual choice of conscience. Tourism will also get a welcome boost, more so by this measure than any other the govt could take.

A Rs.1000 excise tax on an imported bag of cocaine of 1 gram could easily net additional daily revenues of perhaps a crore of rupees. This is also significantly preferable to the current system of replenishing the private stocks of customs officers on duty at the International airports by way of `duty payment,` by people who invariably bring cocaine into the country, regardless of the state of the laws. It would also check the black market trade and the accumulation of undocumented wealth earned by influential persons who benefit from the current state of affairs. Undoubtedly some of this wealth also serves to corrupt the political system.

I might also point out that under this proposed scheme of legalization and duty imposts, cocaine will not be available as a practical matter to a significantly greater number of people than it already is. Only 95% of the population would be able to afford it, as is the case currently. Therefore, consumption by the general population shall not significantly increase under such a careful policy of legalization. The only thing to increase will be the excise and sales tax revenues collected by the bankrupt government.

It should be noted that the Siachin holding operation reportedly costs Pakistan upto $700,000 daily with no end in sight. De jure legalization of cocaine will help cover much of this annual cost and ease the strain on Pakistan`s finances without increasing the burden on the already over taxed poor. Relief from inflation and regressive taxes, not empty slogans, will fill their distended bellies.

Furthermore, the locally produced ?Charras? that is widely available in the cocaine shops has deleterious effects upon the health of the citizenry, and is responsible by its crude manufacture for severe and premature brain damage.

Asfand Siddiqui

sacramento CA

It is hard for me to justify legalization of alcohol simply based on economics. First, I wonder how much revenue would actually be generated if alcohol imports were legalized. Secondly, vast amounts of revenue are bound to be earned if heroin, marijuana, etc., allowed to be traded and exported (perhaps in association with our friends in Afghanistan). It is always interesting to note how many `pro-alcohol-legalization` Pakistanis flinch at the thought of legalizing substances that are thought to be immoral by the general populations of the west.

Excuse me for digressing from the original topic, but for many people this breaks down to the problem of class system in Pakistan. The `elite` make the rules of Pakistan. They, by definition, are educated to view things from somewhat of a euro-centric point of view (the British idea of creating a buffer class between themselves and the natives was very effective). Some may find legalization of heroin to be highly immoral because it is thought to tear apart the fabric of society. Alcohol on the other hand, is something that is consumed by millions worldwide as part ofthe daily routine. From a general `Pakistani` point of view, morally, alcohol is no different from heroin. Medical, scientific facts leave little room for one`s broght-up affecting a debate. Unfortunatley, if an issue breaks down to morality, then how someone is indoctrinated has a defining effect on what they consider acceptable. In Pakistan (may even be true of most other nations), the people who make the rules are brought-up very differently from those who have to live those rules.

Substances should not be legalized simply becuase the powerful have a taste for it; even if they can rationalize using abstract promises of material prosperity. Similarly, ideas and substances should not be banned simply becuase some (majority or minority) feel threatened or disgusted. Again, similar argument could be made in the west regarding a variety of issues.

In the end, the issue of legalizatin of alcohol is not about economics, even if that means alcohol can sponsor our fights against our enemies. Especially if we start to like the fact that alcohol sponsors our battles.

Well well well...though there is little chance of such a thing happening in the near future but it is high time that we did away with our double standards.....It is an open secret that dinking is the most favourite and regular evening activity of our ruling class....

And people who talk about Islam should first think and see as to which extent islam is being followed in matters related to our daily life in our land of pure.....

I need not go in detail as we all know it....

May God be with us in this time of need and desperation....Amen....

always,

Taimur Malik

So what`s next after legalization of alcohol? Prostitution?

When a disease is prevalent, you don`t say we can live with disease, you take steps to eradicate it!

I think your prescription would do more harm than good. Even in the US, drinking (like smoking) is becoming less and less popular, with the traditional whisky having by now been largely replaced by the less strong beer and wine and, more and more, by non-alcoholic beverages. And there are strong movements against specifics social problems resulting from drinking - drunk driving, teenage alcoholism, spouse abuse by alcoholic men, the homeless, - and so on. I would think Pakistan has enough problems to worry about without adding these. The Rs 1000 tax per bottle you suggest would need to be increased a hundred-fold, I think, to pay for similar programs in Pakistan.

This high tax would of course need to be coupled with appropriate punishments for those who are unable to stop before they become drunk. For example, public lashings for public drunkenness, drunk drivers, drunk spouse abusers, would be kind of neat (OK, I`ll settle for a fine with imprisonment). In fact, maybe we can start with the latter (there being a fair sample of candidates for this already in the country), and think about making drinking legal once we are confident that we can deal with these problems as they escalate following implementation of your suggestion.

Aha, another ``sharabi kababi`` lawyer like Mohammad Ali Jinnah want us to make Pakistan into NAPakistan? We finally change name and constitution in 1956 and now you want us to become like Umrika and Europe?

Don`t you know Islam kick white , western european arse in everything from takhno-low-ji to science (read the Quran brother and you will know all science no need to read Biah-low-ji and kheemyat). Islam must be in everything from toilet to toilet bowl - that is TOTAL nature of our totalitarian religion. Islamic Pakistan mean no alcohol. Next what you suggest? man and woman dancing together in disco also legal? (you like your mother dancing with man like me? you like your sister dancing with strange man like me?) You trying to be like Turkey? Look where Turkey is doing today on people`s dining table during thanksgiving? what bad shape the west is in naoozubillah!

Anyways if it is better so what? life is a test brother and our misery is beautiful - besides your mother is the best finder of beautiful wife for you (less hassle and trouble-shrouble with wife seeing you, smelling you and ``checking you out``).

Why you want to be Western brother? Besides those westerns never allow us to become part of them anyways no matter what! I went once to ballroom dance class - because I tired of being only person willing to touching me. I go with my beard and lots of Itar (Islamic perfume) and I want to dance with this ugly girl and even she scream at me ``You Muslim , you beat your woman... you enslave and you molest little garl`` I say ``Hainh? what you talking? firstly our woman like beating by man - just like those bondage, S&M people, our woman submissiev and LOVE veil to please man. SEC-CONE-DLY we enslave to FREE people! and also Ignorant garl: Ayesha was a very womanly six year old garl!``. Her treatment of me, hurting my feelings for so long time such that I want to put BUM in ballroom!

Let me tell you heartwarming story: When alcohol forbidden in Islam everyone in Makkah asked to throw their alcohol so alcohol flow in Makkah streets for 3 years and 3 nights! that is obediance level and submission level of people in those days. Glory days of better health, lower crime-rate, peace [with the exceptions of battles of badr, khandaq, uhud, yarmallah, bani quraizah, ... phew I forgot others] better takhna-low-ji -everything goood just like gurh (solidified sugar cane juice). Then western USA come to Saudia Arabia and people become bad- this man in Makkah take my 14 year old cousin brother (who go there for Hajj) and drinking your Jack Daniels he go take him behind a sand dune and he do bad things to his behind. Astaghfirallah! that is why TV should be haram and dancing and touching woman haram and drinking wine haram because it make you want to touch our cousin brother`s behind. Stop prapa-gun-dizing evil! If only we follow *_TRUE_ * Islam !

Interesting article and I think it is a good idea.

However there are a few problems and loopholes that stand out.

1. While it is expected that it is the government`s duty to collect the tax on alcohol, it still does not totally regulate the black market as every alcohol customer would rather pay the illegal bootlegger down the road than churn out the extra tax grand for a bottle.

2. Depending upon how extensive the legalization could be I will presume that the government would give licenses to certain alcohol retailers. Retailers and sales people are always making up the books to avoid taxes. Tight regulation and regular auditing would be required by the government to ensure correct collection of revenues. (This epidemic exists throughout the retail business.

3. The big question of course, (and this resonates throughout the government and the country) is if the tax revenue collected is used wisely or if it ends up in some bureaucrat`s pocket. The statement below might not neccessarily hold:

``De jure legalization of alcohol will help cover much of this annual cost and ease the strain on Pakistan`s finances without increasing the burden on the already over taxed poor.``

4. Also legalizing alcohol will have a huge negative effect on the country`s social system. Omar has rightly pointed out that it is a luxury of the elite and upper class of society and that only 5 % of the nation will be able to afford it. Firstly there will be the backlash of the Muslim elements in the country and secondly by middle class folk who will feel alcohol as a class separator. (A fine anology being to social circles where drinkers hang out with drinkers and avoid the non-drinkers.) The effect could be worsening and alienating Pakistan`s upper class to the rest of the country.

Taking these points into account, and being a secularist at heart the rest of the nation might not be ready for such a move. Alienation and a class backlash could be the negative externalities.

Well, Well, Well... my friend you are just providing a BRILLIANT excuse for Jamatis, Lashkaris, and all those primitive empty headed lunatics to seize the power and turn our land of PUREs really pure!!!

TALABANIZATION! no thanks.

Try some other arenas and get real!!!!

Moez Momin