Resolving the Hijack Crisis

Reply #: 73 Umairr

To all the pakisanis:

Saying that partition was wrong is not a matter of having an Indian trying to tell a Pakistani or anyone else how to live or what is good for them.

Partiton went against the idea of freedom b/c it denied my family the access to the land they had been on for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

How is that fair?

I would not deny south asian muslims access to the places on the subcontinent they hold dear to them. Why should my family be denied that same access b/c of some artificial border?

Pakistanis seem to understand this concept when it is framed in terms of Israel and Palestine.

You don’t have to consider yourself an Indian or even like other South Asians, but 2 million dead (from both sides of the border) in 1947, millions of forced migrations, 50 years of proxy war now with a nuclear threat, constant terrorism, a general state of Pakistani poverty that is no better (if not any worse) then India, and general human tragedy…yea, I’d say partiton hasn’t worked too well for Pakistan or anyone else for that matter.

You’re right. Live and Let Live....Later ``bhai``

If the alleged RAW agents who carried out this hijacking are indeed headed to Pakistan, the logical thing would be for Pakistan to attempt to arrest them (or get their allies, the Taliban to arrest them ).

I look forward to reading about the manhunt in Pakistan for these men in Pakistani newspapers.

-arun gupta

According to rediff.com, the Afghan Taliban rep. in the US has told rediff that the hijackers of the Indian Airlines plane are headed towards Pakistan, having been given 10 hours to get out of Afghanistan.

In that case, Pakistan will have two sets of hijackers to deal with next year -- the former PM Nawaz Sharif & co. being the second set.

It will be interesting to see how the cases will be handled.

-arun gupta

India and the international community should make every effort to apprehend the hijackers and the released ``militants``. There is no way that these people can find refuge anywhere without a ``friendly`` government helping them. The UN should be ready to impose sanctions on any country, and that includes Pakistan, which accepts them.The world cannot afford to encourage hijackers - they must know that they cannot get away with it. It seems like it should be a fairly easy to catch up with these rogues - where can they go? Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan ... and that is about it.

Anyway, I am glad the ordeal is over for the hostages. May the new year millenium be better for all of us and may Leann Rymes grow up to be as pretty as Shania Twain.

A very happy new year and millennium to ALL of South Asia !

Thank god this hijacking thing is over without further bloodshed.

The US, UN, G8 and SAARC all need to make a resolution for Y2K to find a just solution for Kashmir.

Over a billion people are being cheated out of a brighter future due to this 50+ year old conflict.

Ras

Jay:

You talkin` to me?
(again)You talking to me?
(one more time)You talkin` to me?

Your utterances are a version of ``Did you beat your wife yesterday`` syndrome.

Get off your self assigned pedestal and mix with us mortals.

Many happy returns and may the rooster swallow you.

t

A QUESTION OF VALUES

Temporal and Godot,

There are certain societies that value knowledge, the knowledge derived from an empethetic understanding of the living conditions, an intimate knowledge of the people and the history that shaped them and in those societies a person with knowledge is respected.

The hijack crisis is over, the prisoners have been released. Now read my post under ` indian airline plan hijacked`` post no 25, `` Avenging Kargill``. Then also read my `joke`.

Send in your respects if you belong to the society I described above.

Regards and best wishes for the new year.

Jay.

mohajir 62,

Your post is clearly a part of the indian propagenda. I agree all are Pakistanis and Afghans, but the reality is that they are not terrorists, they have been detained illegally by india and this facade of hijack is created to let them free, with out any emberassment.

First of all Asghar came to india as a tourist on a portugese passport. He was arrested.

The next two in your list are goatherds rfrom Jhumritaliah in Assad Kashmir. They fell down a clif, the slope took them to the indian side, and landed into the dastardly trenches dug by the indians. Seeing the two vanish so suddeny, their two brother thought that some genie has took them, they came down to investigate and the hindu army pounced up on them and put them in prison.

The next ten in your list were pall bearers, who took the mutilated bodies to india and were arrested against all international norms and Geneva conventions.

Next in your list we are convinced is an actor, Amita Bachan posing as Akber in amer akber antony. The afghans are totally absurd, they are shown wearing jeans, that is impossible, I learnt from the chowk.

Another five in the list are the long lost brothern, who didnt want to return after 1971. They are ex soldiers, I am told that there was a trial of some soldiers for some bad deeds, so these five didnt want to come home.

What ever is remainig are RAW staff, trying to enter pakistan and trying to secure a good meal at the receptions planned.

Our Rights, Our Limits

As humans we are endowed with numerous faculties, one of them is our ability to decide between right and wrong or good and bad. Our decisions are our decision as our opinions are our opinions. We have every right to make our own decisions and form our own opinions as long as our opinions and decisions do not cause violence upon other people.

Are we sure that the opinions we express on the Chowk, or in any other arena, do not violate the rights of other people to live freely and happily in this world that we have no choice than to share with each other?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Truth 68: ``Is this country called Pakistan for real?`` This is a campaign started by Pakistan to counter the false propoganda being carried out by the India media and govt. The best way to couter false allegations is not to give excuses, but to provide false accusations of your own. Just like so many Indians have bought into the false Indian accusations trying to involve Pakistan into this at all costs. A lot of Pakistanis have bought into the false Pakistani allegations. Jaswanth Singh should have been more careful when he tried to falsely accuse Pakistan. One false accusations deserves another. As long as the Indian govt. is falsely accusing Pakistan, I support Pakistan counter-allegations. Once India stops, Pakistan should stop as well.

Truth, perhaps you should first criticize the Indian govt. for politicising this whole affair unnecessarily, in the first place.

``Jaswant Singh also said that Nepal was verifying reports that the hijackers had boarded the plane after arriving at Kathmandu on a Pakistan International Airlines flight. ``On account of certain systems at the international terminal in Kathmandu airport...it seems these five arrived on a PIA flight and simply went from arrival to departure to take five seats booked earlier under one name on the Indian airlines flight,`` Singh said.`` (Nation, Pakistan)

Pakistan had to supply a list of passengers on the PIA flight to show that the hijackers were not on the PIA flight. The Nepalese govt. also issued a statement, that their was no way the hijackers could have gotten off the PIA flight, and entered into the Indian Airlines flight without going through security.

``A dozen voices pronounced and pontificated, and not the least of these was Jaswant Singh whose energy, if nothing else, was notable. He was everywhere, saying everything, and, not surprisingly, there were contradictions. His embrace of the Taliban on Monday was an interesting change to his former position, and Reuters reported that he gave a briefing that day to ``senior editors of domestic media organisations,`` after which one of them, the United News of India, promptly reported that ``highly placed government sources`` stated that ``the entire operation was fully facilitated by Pakistan.`` The man wasn`t even trying to disguise his tracks, and it was a self-demeaning attempt to deflect enormous criticism from the incompetent manner in which Mr Singh and the government were handling the whole affair.`` (Brian Cloughley)

Ummair,

Re post#72

I agree Pakistanis arent & shouldnt be regretting partition. You dont want our problems just as much as we dont want yours.

However, I must disagree with some of your statements. Alas I feel you are buying into the Pakistani media line (just like we are buying into ours) when you say Pakistanis have a much much higher standard of living than the average Indian muslim. If that were indeed the case ,then Indian muslims would be making a beeline into Pakistan--just like Mexicans are into the US.Of course, Pakistan welcomes their Muslim bretheren with open arms, dont they?

If Indian muslims are so economically,politically or religiously oppressed, the ``land of the pure`` will look like heaven to them. There are no throngs of muslims clamouring outside the Pakistani Counsulate applying for visas.

Lets face it, the condition of all the countries in the Subcontinent is ,more or less, equally wretched. Sure, India`s economy is nothing to brag about, but it shows much greater promise.Why do so many Pakistanis feel that they have such a huge advantage in their standard of living as compared to ours? You can put whatever ``spin`` on economic statistics--India`s povetry looks horrendous because we have 8 times as many people. In terms of indigenous technological development, educational opportunities etc we are better off. I`m sure you are better off in other areas. But that is neither here or there.

Pakistanis want to be left alone. Thats fine by us--so could you tell your govt (as well) to stop interfering in our affairs. This self appointed role of being the knight in shining armor for the Kashmiris is wearing a little thin. The rest of the world just isnt buying your propaganda. In fact, when it came to Kargill, even your good friend China told you to cool it!

Peace

Re: the happy one Reply #: 67

``That`s an amazing volume of contraband to take past security... And then there are the unconfirmed reports of bullet proof vests, laptops, satellite phones, bullet resistant pants (!) and what not. ``

Apart from Zeemax`s food cart theory, I have another. At Kathmandu, they carried in whatever little they could (knives, pistol,etc). Once they landed in Kandahar (their own backyard), they were supplied with the other stuff by the Taliban, just in case. They are relaxed in Kandahar - home sweet home. There`s nothing anybody can do to them now. And this laxity has transferred over to the passengers.

Since they are obviously receiving orders from pakistan (everyone knows this, and pakistan knows that everyone knows this) killing the passengers is out of the question. Apart from the sheer stink that this would raise, retaliation in the form of shooting down a PIA flight is easy.



Pakistan was given a lesson in kargil that two can play a game. For 2 Migs, a Helicopter and 5 lives, the price they paid was a $100 million plane and 16 lives. It seems they have short memories. (A certain thick-skinned pakistani is ever fond of bringing up the issue of shooting down an unarmed plane, etc. etc.etc).

The irony is that in spite of all the patriotic arguments offered by the pakistanis, they have no say in ANY matter in their country. Their military govt. is answerable to no one. Apart from the relative anonymity of the web, none of the pakistani spokesmen at Chowk would dare question their govt`s actions inside Pakistan.

regards,

vineet 69: ``Many Indians fear that this has become possible largely because the genial Mr. Vajpayee still subscribes to the liberal secular values and notions of a benign and enlightened state bequeathed by India`s first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru.`` Seems like the guy who wrote the article hasn`t read the BJP party manifesto. It is available at www.bjp.org. It is the furthust thing from being liberal or secular. Here is some minor snippets from the website.

``The BJP is convinced that Hindutva has immense potentiality to re-energize this nation and strengthen and discipline it to undertake the arduous task of nation-building. This can and does trigger a higher level of patriotism that can transform the country to greater levels of efficiency and performance. It is with such integrative ideas in mind, the BJP joined the Ram Janmabhoomi movement for the construction of Shri Ram Mandir at Ayodhya. This greatest mass movement in post-Independence history reoriented the disoriented polity in India and strengthened the foundation of cultural nationalism.

The BJP is committed to facilitate the construction of a magnificent Shri Ram Mandir at Ram Janmasthan in Ayodhya where a makeshift temple already exists. Shri Ram lies at the core of Indian consciousness. The BJP will explore all consensual, legal and constitutional means to facilitate the construction of Shri Ram Mandir at Ayodhya.``

``The future of Bharat is set. Hindutva is here to stay. It is up to the Muslims whether they will be included in the new nationalistic spirit of Bharat. It is up to the government and the Muslim leadership whether they wish to increase Hindu furor or work with the Hindu leadership to show that Muslims and the government will consider Hindu sentiments. The era of one-way compromise of Hindus is over, for from now on, secularism must mean that all parties must compromise.``

Please do not try to misinform anyone about the BJP. Any party that specifically mentions in their manifesto the destruction of a mosque, based on 400 year old history is not liberal or secular. Any govt. that is ordering the killings of thousands of Muslims in Kashmir is not quite liberal or secular to me. It is as fundamentalist as they come. How is Vajpayee going to get anymore fundamentist than this.

I CANNOT BELIEVE

Hamidm,

This is what people have been talking about, Y2K and end of the world, the new millineumm, unbelievable events, pigs flying and indo pak understanding.

Best wishes, happiness, long productive life and every thing worth while in the world for you. I completely agree with you.

Regards

Jay.

THANK YOU UMAIRR

I know what you mean, thank you anyway.

I WOULD REQUEST EVERYONE IN THE DISCUSSION TO STOP POINTING FINGERS TO EACHOTHERS AND PRAY FOR THE PLANE PASSENGERS AND CREW AND ALSO VICTIMS ON THE GROUND. ALL THE PAKISTANIS AND INDIANS COME TO YOUR SENSES AND TRY TO REALISE THE GROUND REALTIES WHICH ARE THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL THIS.

TO ALL OUR CRITICS WHO DO NO LET A MINUTE GO BY CRITICISING ISLAM IN GENERAL AND PAKISTAN IN PARTICULAR SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF KINDNESS AND FORGIVENESS AND SO ARE PAKISTANIS VERY FRIENDLY, HOSPITABLE AND PEACE LOVING PEOPLE. AN ACT OF AN INDIVIDUAL/S CAN NOT BE BLAMED ON A NATION. FOR INSTANCE THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED AUSTRAILIAN PRIEST AND HIS FAMILY WAS ACT OF CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS NOT OF A WHOLE NATION.

PEOPLE WHO DEMOLISHED BABRI MOSQUE WERE ALSO FEW EXTREMISTS AND FUNDAMEMTALIST HINDUS THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE WHOLE HINDU NATION IS FULL OF HATRED AND VOILENCE.

NOW AS FAR AS WHAT ISI IS DOING? THAT QUESTION CAN BE ANSWERED WHAT RAW, CIA, MOSSAD OR FOR THAT MATTER ANYOTHER MILITARY INTELLIGENCE IS DOING. THEY ARE ALL DOING THEIR JOBS WITH THE BEST WAY SUITED TO THEM. IN SOME CASE THEY ARE GIVING BEFITTING REPLY TO EACH OTHER`S ACTIONS.

AS FOR AS DIVISION OF UNITED INDIA WAS WRONG, IT IS ABSOLUTE INCORRECT. WE PAKISTANIS HAVE UNDERSTOOD THE SEPARATION OF EAST PAKISTAN BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY WANTED FOR THEMSELVES. TODAY ALMOST EVERY PAKISTANI RECOGNISES BANGLADESH AS A SEPARATE ENTITY OR NATION, ANOTHER COUNTRY. SO WE HAVE NO COMPLAINTS EACH OTHER. ON THE CONTRARY INDIA AS GOVERNMENT AND INDIAN PEOPLE HAVE NEVER GIVEN PAKISTAN RECOGNITION THAT IS WHY THERE IS SO MUCH HATRED IN THE SUBCONTINENT. INDIA AND INDIAN SHOULD LEARN FROM THE NEW WORLD ORDER, AND LIBERATE KASHMIR, KHALISTAN, NIXLES, AND ALL OTHERS WHO DO NO LIKE OF WISH TO LIVE UNDER INDIAN COLONIALISM.

IF INDIA ADHERE TO NON-COLONIALISM,NON ANNEXATION AND NON IMPERIALISM, THERE WOULD BE AN ETERNAL PEACE IN SUB CONTINENT.

LONG LIVE PAKISTAN, PAKISTAN PAINDABAD. LOVE PAKISTAN OR LEAVE PAKISTAN.

OK, lets take this step by step...

Question: Are the hijackers acing totally independently or are they just `operatives` of an `agency` that planned and was/is/will be providing moral, logistic & financial support?

Possible Answer A: The hijackers are members of a J&K/ P.A.K (Pakistan Administered Kashmir) based organization that unilaterally took this action to free Maulana Azar & friends. Just based on the fact that last four attempts to free the Maulana have come from a group attached to the Harkat-Ul-Ansar/ Mujahedeen, they would have to be the prime suspects.

Possible Answer B: The hijackers may or may not be members of H.U.M but they are fully controlled by an intelligence agency. And the nominees are... CIA, Mossad, ISI, RAS. And the winner is? Can we safely narrow this down to ISI & RAS by popular demand?

I would personally lean towards Answer B.

Here is the amount of stuff these people smuggled in. Handguns, knifes, hand grenades (eye witness reports indicate that the famous five are not quite sharing one of each, they all have their own fire power). That`s an amazing volume of contraband to take past security. And then there are the unconfirmed reports of bullet proof vests, laptops, satellite phones, bullet resistant pants (!) and what not. How do you get past security with all this? Can you bribe your way into an aircraft with the nature of booty being so frightening? Seems highly unlikely. These folks have been helped out by somebody really high up on the totem pole. Does anybody on chowk have any possible answers? As ridiculous as Zeemax`s food cart theory sounds, it is the only theory so far that explains this.

Before we inspect/ accept the `agency` paradigm, let me just say one thing to all those people who ask ``Why would a `government` plan or execute such an audaciously risky maneuver?`` I am sure you guys are aware of the CIA sending poisoned cigars to Castro and other such hilarious escapades (I think they sell the CIA Bloopers video for 14.95 at Kmart). If somebody alleges that RAS had something to do with this operation, they are not exactly insinuating that the Lok Sabha passed this operation with a voice vote. Intelligence agencies around the world almost feel remiss if they take their respective governments into full confidence.

So which agency is it? I think if you argue that these are Kashmiri freedom fighters and members in good standing of the august institution of Harkat-Ul-Mujahedeen, then you automatically concede that its an ISI operation. ISI provides training, manpower, logistics, infrastructure, funding & command structure to H.U.M. So if its an H.U.M operation, then its an ISI operation. I think ISI has far more to gain and lot less to loose than RAS. In fact the way it has gone so far, it seems extremely unlikely that RAS had anything to do with this whatsoever. If anybody can give me a good reason as to why the RAS would subject the Indian people & government to such an ordeal, I would be really grateful.

In summation I would like to say that I wouldn`t put a `contrived hijacking` or any other sinister plot past the RAS. They are insidious scumbags like any intelligence agency worth its salt should be. But the way this is shaking down, I think its pretty obvious that RAS had nothing to do with this (unless of course they`ve been completely bought over by ISI and their goal now is the destruction of India!). It would be interesting to find out the extent of the role ISI played in this but to concede that this is a Mujahedeen operation and then to release ISI of all culpability is a trifle oxymoronic.

Regards