Men of the Millenium

I think Hitler should be in the list. He was evil but his influence and his policies has changed our world. Beside he had done his job very well. Expelling Jews from europe effectivly. The European leaders who were carrying their dream of effectivly expelling Jews for good, came true!

Well pack your bags Solitude. Reply-er #22 is in west:)

Solititude: ``What this has to do with Men of the Millenium escapes me.`` This has absolutely nothing to do with the men of the millenium. But I believe you are the one who started this discussion regarding terrorism with the mention of the NYC comment in reply #1, when you stated, ``We were once a terror for the world (well most of it) just like we are a terror today (take the name of Islam in Times Square and people will forget about partying for millenium and run for their lives as though they saw some deadly poisonous vermin like snake, scorpion etc.).``

No one is saying the West is bad. However Muslims aren`t all bad either, as you seem to think. And what makes you think that Is it alright for you to express your hatred against Islam, in a one-sided manner? Every society has good and bad points. I am sure you are not the only one who understands the West. However, your views seem to indicate that all the terrorism in the world is being carried out by Muslims. This is an extremist view, and it is the incorrect statement that I was trying to reply to. Please try to be more objective in your views. And if you do not want useless discussion to propogate, then please do not start them.

In the meanwhile, check out the following website. Perhaps it will paint allow you to look at things more objectively.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/351435.asp

Other great men (and one great woman)

I have tried to come up with an additional list. Could anyone try to come up with a list of great South Asian?

Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519), Italian painter, sculptor, architect, musician, engineer, and scientist.

Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827), German composer. One of the greatest composers.

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-91), Austrian composer. Untimely death at the age of 35, yet one of the greatest.

The unknown Turkish architect of Taj Mahal. Taj Mahal was built during 1830-68.

Georg W. F. Hegel (1770-183), German philosopher (dialectician).

Willaim Shakespeare (1564-1616), English dramatist and poet. One of the greatest playwrights, if not the greatest.

Jean J. Rousseau (1712-78), Swiss-French philosopher and political theorist.

Maria Montessori (1870-1952), Italian educator and physician. Originator of the Montessori method of educating small children. First woman physician in Italy.

Signmund Freud (1856-1939), Austrian psychiatrist. Founder of psychoanalysis.

Walt Disney (1901-1966), Film-maker and show-business entrepreneur. Founder of Disneyland.

oops. I thought reply-er #22 is bahmad. Cheer up solitude, you don`t need to pack up.

I agree with Bina regarding the absence of women in this list. All men are sexist pigs. I propose the addition of Pamela Anderson to the list.

Summary of reply #22:``West is bad, west is violent, west is cunning, west bombed this, west killed that, western zionist conspiracy of this and that ...`` [rest can be caught at your local masjid]

What this has to do with Men of the Millenium escapes me. What this has to do with Islamic terrorists smuggling in bombs and threatening the ``immoral``-hell-bound party goers of the Y2K escapes me. If anything this is the point of reply-er #22 and most Masjid-Walas: ``West is evil and its evil is a lot more evil than our acts of cruelty so stop being afraid of us when we threaten to blow up TimesSquare no BE afraid of us, be very very afraid of us because we are strong and we are armed and pure and want to send you to hell, actually we can`t make up our minds about whether you should be afraid of us or not- but if you think unlike us then you are brainwashed by the west``. See? perfectly logical, straighforward, un-``confused`` Islamic train of thought.

I hope reply-er #22 is NOT in the west because I would certainly not like to live on the same continent with a person who has such a strong hatred of the West. The West is oft attacked with the preconceived notion that the West is the Best: ``Hey you west! you think you are better than us hanh? you think you are perfect hanh? well you pooped here and there and I hold ALL of you responsible for that and this - so shut up and convert to my religion and stop saying anything that hurts my feelings because I am soo sensitive! otherwise you and your illegitimate-prostitute-of-ancestors will go to hell ! ``

Why are the Believers so eager to denounce the West (and its _relatively_ more FREE people) Why do people (who are into a certain faith, a faith that orders ``hear and obey``) hate their free-er human fellows? Submission vs. Freedom - Islam vs. West. Islam may literally mean SUBMISSION (and advocate the worst kind of submission: mental) but no body ever said West=freedom ( the west never claimed to be ``divine perfection`` or ``completness``- unlike the ``modest`` claims of its opposing party: submission)- the poor people here seem to be fighting their own battles against fanatics of all sorts (homophobes, Christian Coalition, Various Arab/Pan Islamic Lobbies) to win and preserve their freedoms. The ``best`` of the west would much rather criticize their own god, country, religion and look outside for assisstance than the wonderfully self-satisfied oppossing party (the one that is complete and perfect and into submission).

I have a QUESTION for MR. HOODHBHOY: If Einstein was so great why did he not get laid as often as Mick Jagger? I have always had this conflict within me : religion vs. what-my-heart-desired (women) [that one is solved pretty definitively _evilgrin_] ; science vs. partying (with women); Why can`t a lab also be a harem? why can`t we hump women as we mix toxins? Why can`t books hold you in their arms ? Why do engineering depts have so few women? Why do the Mullahs of this world get all the 13+ wives+ concubines+ child brides+ mureedans? Do books make you solitary or do solitary ppl. make books?

correction reply #22: ``tvarad: I agree with your comments. However it is also a result of Western biases and propoganda`` should be ``tvarad: I agree with your comments. However the negative opinion about Islam in the West is also a result of Western biases and propoganda, as well as the actual actions of the Muslims.``

Decartes, Newton // *and// * Einstein? Aren`t the scientists a little over-represented here? Einstein certainly shaped global politics of the latter half of this century, but beyond that...? could someone please enlighten me?

A short list of five persons was always going to be tricky. However, I do wonder whether James Watt shouldn`t be on even this list. It`s arguable the industrial revolution that followed his invention has changed more peoples lives than anything else this millenium.

Good idea to have this thought provoking exercise, CHOWKSTAFF!

Other names I`d like to toss up: Marx (whose influence is strong even today even in capitalist states), Alexander Flemming, Florence Nightengale, J.Guttengburg and Charles Darwin. (credit SameerJB for the last two).

One name that seems to be quite popular here, but whose influence on people`s lives I can`t quite see (given that the British were decolonizing anyway, and that the land envisaged by this man is still nowhere to be seen), is Gandhi Inspiring philosphies (though nothing truly original), and a novel protest approach (that would, of course, never haved worked with less civilized `masters`) mark the man as a great individual in his own right, but aren`t we rather talking about people who ``shaped the millenium`` here?

regards,

Re: Solitude, #20

You`re hilarious, man! Well said!!!

You can all argue about Man of the Year, Man of the Century, Man of the Millennium, whatever.

There is only one Man of the Human History: Homer Simpson.

Solitude: It seems like some Americans have really been on you, and you have developed some sort of a inferiority complex. First of all, terrorism and violence is practiced by every nation in the world. It just depends on whose line you buy into. If you are just going to look at the American point of view, then what you are stating is true, i.e. Muslims commit all the terrorism and violence, and no one else does anything. But if you look at the issue objectively, you will realize that by far, by a huge margin, most of the violence in the world in this century, and the previous century, and even now, has been committed by the West. And will continue to be committed by the West. The simple reason is that the West is much more powerful than anyone else.

While one should condemn the terrorism being committed by the Muslim terrorist organizations, one should also not buy into the Western propoganda, hook line and sinker. Since we are talking about the millenium, lets take a look at a little bit of history. Slavery and colonization included quite a bit of state-sponsored terrorism (which is worst than terrorist acts of a few individuals, or organizations). Wouldn`t you agree? Who gave the British permission to rule India? How about the various ethnic cleansings of races like the Jews in the Holocaust, Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. More bombs were dropped by the US on Vietnam, then the total amount of armament used by the US in WWII; even the Americans themselves are making movies about how many Vietnamese civilians they killed, and raped. Iran, where the Americans fully supported the Shah and his SAVAK. Would you consider the SAVAK a terrorist organization. Iraq and Saddam Hussain, whom the US supported against Iran. And then decided to bomb Iraq into the stone ages. 7 hous of bombing a day; don`t you think they missed their targets at least once a day. What is Russia doing in Chechnya right now? Wouldn`t you classify that as terrorism, and killing of innocents. What about the tomohawks launced over Pakistan to hit Afghanistan. The US does not even test these missiles over its own localities. It tests them in the ocean. Had someone fired missiles that crossed over the US, the US would have considered them terrorists, however the US action is not considered a terrorist action when it almost hit a small village in Baluchistan. How about the support to the Israeli terrorist organization throughout the history of Israel. If you read the history of Israel, you will find out that many many more Muslims have been killed by Israeli terrorists than vice-versa. Even now, the US supports Israel, as the Israelis bomb and kill innocent Muslims. It just never ends up in the news. How about the nuclear bombing of Japan. The list goes on and on.

There is one major difference between the Muslim sponsored terrorism and western terrorism. The former is carried out openly, the later is done in a very subtle manner. More people are killed by a military weapon manufactured in the US, then with a weapon manufactured anywhere else. So please try to take a balanced view of the situation, and not just a one-sided view. What you have said is correct, but what I have said is correct, as well. Don`t just look at one side. Denounce both sides, and the terrorist activities they commit. Your definition of terrorism seems to be that if it is carried out by one person, it is terrorism, but if it is carried out by a govt. it is not terrorism. The Western domestic policies are very fair, even to minorities, however their foreign policies can be as ruthless as that of any terrorist organization.

tvarad: I agree with your comments. However it is also a result of Western biases and propoganda. The Irani child was as scared of the SAVAK, as the American is scared of the Muslim terrorist. The Iraqi child is as scared of Americans, as the Americans are scared of terrorists. The Palestinian child and Lebanese child, is as scared of US backed Israeli soldiers kicking him out of his house, or bombing him to death as the fear that Americans have of Palestenian terrorist. I read a story by Brian Cloughley, on how the American govt. maneuvoered Butrous Ghali out of the UN to hide the bombing of innocent people by the Israeli military.

All forms of terrorism should be condemned, but to me, state sponsored terrorism is much worst than terrorism carried out by individuals.

Why hasn`t anybody mentioned a single artist?

We`ve got philosophers, theologians, physicists, mathematicians, politicians, prophets, poets (especially the sufi kind which, I have noted, are always popular on this site) etc. but no artists.

I guess it demonstrates how little art and the people who produce it are valued in the East and by the people from them there parts.

I`m kinda partial to the visual stuff myself so I probably would`ve thrown in a Michelangelo or Picasso.

``Men, men, and always men....Bibi Ayesha``-Bina

Wah Wah Bina Ji, Shukran Jazeelan Kareeman! Masha-allah ...er... un ? Bina Ji, a Harvard / Wellesley education serve you really well. You see you once again proof positive that our great civilization (and way of life) include 6 year old child brides also (http://rd4.lhric.org/writings/pedophilia.html)- who documented the saksual habits of the greatest man on earth: the most pious, most virtuouso (guess who?): Praphet Kareem, Nabi-e-akramun Nur-ul-kaynath Mohammad. Was she also responsible for leading the greatest civil war in Islamic history (against Ali? I know the shias don`t like her but they all deserve to be gunned down in their bargahs anyway) Isnt she also the ``precendent`` quoted by all our Arab brothers when they come to our third world countries to provide us with ``Islamic Aid``. They aid by taking our 6 year old daughters (our ``imanat``, our ``Trusts`` and burdens) as their maids (but are later kind enough to promote them to the status of their wives! just like the Holiest of Holy Peace Be Upon Him was kind enought to make his concubines his ``wives``- or so they say). But the REAL question is : when will we be dragging out the heroics (or heroine-ics) of *Muslim * women from the Harems? I say Muslim because I would certainly not want Asma Jahangir included (isn`t she a prostitute or something?)

Lastly Mr Umairr :``If the above is true, then this to me, is more a sign of the ignorance and biases of the people in Time Square...`` What you mean ? you know every other day we have one Muslim brother trying to smuggle in explosives via canadian border to Times Square and all my Ghair-Musalman friends going ``oh, I very afraid Seattle cancel celebration because terrorist threats... and NYC getting threats from Hizb-this and Hizb-that`` My co-worker want to stay away from Times Square after someone wearing big green turban in Queens Mosque quoting Brother Osama bin Ladin and declaring USA ``house of war``. After World Trade Center bombing, after the massacre in Egypt and Pakistan and Embassies in Africa, after arrest of Syrian brothers in their NYC apt. filled with bomb making equipment, after hijacking of Lockerbies and bombing of Russian cities, after kidnapping of swedes and French (who look and act like Americans), after saudi dorm being blown away, after Kashmir, after Indian Airlines, after all that ``effort`` spent by our Mujahideen brothers you say the people in Times Square are ``ignorant`` and they should not be afraid of terrorists sending threatening messages from around the globe that they intend to blow up the millenium celebrations (because we dont like parties period)- Hainh? you are absolutely right! sometimes I forget that we are the enlightened ones and everyone else is the ``jahil`` thank-oo thank-oo.

RE #: 6 Umairr

``Solitude: ``take the name of Islam in Times Square and people will forget about partying for millenium and run for their lives as though they saw some deadly poisonous vermin like snake, scorpion etc`` If the above is true, then this to me, is more a sign of the ignorance and biases of the people in Time Square, than a sign of anything else.``

I believe this is more a reflection on the modern practitioners of Islam than the religion itself. It is a pity that one of the least dogmatic religions in the world which played such a huge role as the keeper of knowledge in the dark ages has become so rigid in it`s structures today. Perhaps a Luterenesque renaissance is what is needed in Islam now.