Men of the Millenium

Here`s my list of the 5 great trends of the NEXT millenium:

1. Solarization: Mankind colonizes other planets (starting with Mars by 2050).

2. The Internet Person: Collective consciousness emerges through the internet (same process as brain cells communicating to form individual consciousness)(around 2300);

3. The Elixir of Youth: Cells made to split indefinitely, individual stays young indefinitely (or until the universe dies, when all return to their Maker to face the music). (around 2500);

4. Discovery of Wormholes: Discovery of new dimensions (mathematically considered to be out there) making it possible to travel 12 b. light years with ease (like wormholes through earth). (around 2999);

5. Kashmir Solution Found: Pakistan and Indian Governments finally decide to declare victory and forget about Kashmir and try and catch up with the rest of the world (around 3000);

Re: Tahmed321 and alireza Reply #: 67

While Galileo deserves to be up there somewhere,he (or anyone else for that matter) cannot in any way hold a candle to Newton.

(1) Contrary to what most people believe, Galileo did not invent the telescope. The actual inventor is probably lost to antiquity. A person by the name of Jan Lippershey (Dutch or Belgian) applied for a patent of the refracting telescope a few years before Galileo even knew of its existence. This patent was refused on the grounds that the invention was known to people in general !!!

During a visit to Belgium, Galileo picked up one such instrument and was greatly awed by it. He returned home to Italy and began a series of experiments by which he established the basic principles of the telescope. After applying these principles he was able to produce an unheard of magnification of 32 ! Galileo certainly deserves credit, but lets not go overboard !

(2) It was Newton who invented the Reflecting Telescope (as compared to Refracting). The best and most powerful telescopes in the world today are of the Reflecting type. The discovery of the expanding universe and the big-bang theory - we owe to the Reflecting telescope - and therefore to Newton.

The Reflecting telescope and the Calculus merely scratch the surface of what this great man left us. Not for nothing goes the saying: ``God said, let there be light, and there was Newton``.

Sorry for the lecture, but the lion will be defended !

Why Luther,

Unlike you say Luther had no great inclination to better the lot of the poor. He urged the German princes to eradicate the peasants` revolt ruthllessly. Moreover he called for a persecution of the Jews. He did niot call for the separation of state and religion. The new Protestant churches in Germany were under direct control of the state with the territorial princes as their heads.

Why not Gutenberg,

He was not a genious like Ibn Rushf, Galilei or Einstein, but without his invention of printing the whole scientific process would have been unimaginable,

Yours,

Martin

I think the choices made in the article are excellent, but i don`t agree with Ibn Rushd as the most important person in the last millenium. I think that Johann Gutenburg (invented the printing press) should be on that list. If it were up to me i`d let him win. Without him Martin Luther`s 95 proclaimations would never have led to a revolt. Without him Shakespeare, Descartes and even Averroes would be virtually unknown.

Just a question to increase my understanding of present-day Pakistan, if anyone cares to answer. If tomorrow a poll was held for the `currently- living most respected person in Pakistan`, who would win?

Sadhana

Sadna 72: Tough question. I can mention some names, although there are probably many more. These are rough estimates. Abdus Sattar and Bilquis Edhi (everyone would probably agree). Imran Khan (2/3 of the people greatly respect him due to his philanthrapic work, 1/3 despise him because of his western past, and political ambitions). Jehangir Khan (because of his humbleness despite his great success). Dr. Abdul Qadeer (again 2/3 greatly respect him and 1/3 do not becuase of his contribution in the nuclear program). Dr. Abdus Salam and Akhtar Hameed are some names that come to mind of people who recently passed away. There are many more, but these are a few that come to mind.

Re: #72 sadna

EDHI

PAKISTANIS OF THE CENTURY

(in no particular order)

Abdus Sattar Edhi

Faiz Ahmed Faiz

Abdus Salam

SOUTH ASIANS OF THE CENTURY

(in no particular order)

Mother Teresa

Abdus Sattar Edhi

Faiz Ahmed Faiz

Rabindaranath Tagore

Abdus Salam

Chandrasekhara Venkata Raman

Ten men of the millennium:

1. Johannes Guttenberg; 2. Issac Newton; 3. Francis Bacon; 4. Immanuel Kant; 5. Charles Darwin; 6. Rene Descartes; 7. Thomas Edison; 8. Thomas Jefferson; 9. Karl Marx; 10. Ibn-Rushd.

Ten men of the century:

1. Linus Pauling; 2. Norman Bourlag; 3. Vladimir Lenin; 4. Mohandas Gandhi 5. Frnklin Roosevelt; 6. Deng Xioping; 7. Kemal Ataturk; 8. Albert Einstein; 9. Nelson Mandela; 10. Bill Gates.

Dear Sadna (#72): I agree with the responses of Temporal, Umairr and RAJanjua about Abdus Sattar Edhi being the most respected person alive today in Pakistan. However this consensus is the result of our rational imaginations. If your question,``If tomorrow a poll was held for the `currently- living most respected person in Pakistan`, who would win?`` is put to practical test, I will have to agree with Bilal Ahmad that PM will win the vote. This is because of either ego of PM himself or the yes-men surrounding him, pushing his candidacy with the help of media bombardment of marketing/propaganda, projecting him as the next best person after Jinnah, the Khalid Bin waleed II, the true Syed, the brave mujahid etc., coupled with the defaming of everybody else especially the most formidable challenger. This reminds me of last Russian election which Boris Yeltsin won despite having an approval rating of only 7%, two months before the polls and barely able to talk or walk. In an open-to-all competition, Altaf Hussain (MQM), Maulana Fazal-Ur-Rehman(jihadis) and Qazi Hussain Ahmad (jamaatis) will also grab sizable votes for ``most respected`` position. The chances of Edhi winning are best in polling surveys conducted by some independent organization with the question clearly defined to exclude PM and politicians.

I would also like to know about the most respected Indian. My choice will be Jyoti Basu but I suspect Amitabh Bacchan or Lata will win.

Sincerely,

Sameer

Thanks, all, for the responses and information.

About the currently most respected Indian, its really difficult to say as each region has its own preferences and contexts. As I agreed with Bilal Ahmad on another thread, the head of government is usually a strong contender. Off hand, social worker Baba Amte comes to mind. Kapil Dev was once voted `most popular` :-).

Funny thing is whoever else I can think of has died recently. Like Mother Teresa as mentioned earlier. And of the states I am acquainted with, maybe Shivarama Karanth, a multi-faceted literary personality in Karnataka state, on hearing of whose death the shopkeepers of his native town of Udipi downed their shutters. In Kerala, EMS Namboodiripad possibly (but he had vehement dissenters) veteran communist. I am of course speaking of my assessment of public opinions, in other words guesswork. There are many spiritual leaders in based in the south with huge followings like Sai Baba and the Shankaracharyas.

Well, more knowledgeable Indians can say more.

Sadhana

I will probably get flamed for this, but...

Why not Adolf Hitler among the top ten of the century? His actions were negative (to put it mildly), but if you go by the article`s definition of people who shaped the millennium or the 20th century, you would have to consider Hitler`s impact:

- Led to WW II

- Nuclear bombing of Japan and the resulting world consensus regarding the evils of nuclear weapons

- Destroyed Japan and pushed it into the arms of the West as a de-militarised, peaceful nation.

- Split Germany and kept Germans apart for nearly half-a-century

- Impact on formation of Israel

- Greater importance to human rights and awareness of the dangers of fascism.

I think he should figure in the top ten ppl of the century. Probably we should have a list for people who had the most negative effects on humanity throughout the second millennium.

Mr. Hoodhboy`s choice is obviously a very subjective one--as anybody`s would be by definition in such a list; however there is definitely a Western bias here although it could again be argued that this has been the millenium of the Europeans (then again the Renaissannce and Western superiority is only since the last 3 centuries, and since a millenium is 1000 years I still think that this is too western orientated a list.) Then again it has become fashionable amongst most educated Third World origin people to glorify the Western civilisation and look down upon their own; Indo-Paks are especially prone to it! (Unfortunately).

Hazrat Ibn Rushd was undoubtedly a great philosopher and scientist as well but it must not be forgotten that he was also a great Islamic jurist and the Grand Qadi of Cordoba in his time and is considered an authority on Maliki (or Shafi`i?) fiqh. He was in no way against orthodox religion as the above seems to imply (is that the author`s own prejudices against orthodox islam surfacing?) but was only trying to show that philosophy and Revelation were not mutually exclusive truths. Although his status in Islamic history has been huge it has not been as great as that of the great Imam Ghazzali; and recent scholarship has proven that imam ghazzali also had a HUGE influence on the development of Christian thought and philosophy as well which eventually led to the Renaissance. Coupled with his outstanding work in the Islamic Sciences--he is considered probably the greatest of all theologians-and was also a great writer (his Ihya al Ulum al Deen is without peer) and a great sufi as well as being a great philosopher himself. He was NOT against peripatetic philosophy in toto, and in fact its use is evident in all his works, rather he only attacked the philosophers on 3 major issues which he was able to demonstrate were against the Islamic viewpoint and also self-contradictory in his phenomenal Tahafut al Fulaasafa (the incoherence of the philosophers); the precursor to this book--which incidently sounded the death-knell for Greek philosophy in the Muslim world Ibn Rushd`s book Tahafut al tahafut notwithstanding--in which he summarized the basic teachings of the Peripatetic philosophers, called Maqaasid al Fulasafaa (the purpose of the philosophers) was such a brilliant summation of aristotlian thought that when it was discovered in europe in latin translations via spain, the europeans thought that Imam Ghazzali himself was a adherent of Greek Philosophical thought!! They named him Algazel and mistook him for a defender of aristotle when he was the opposite! Incidently he did not rage against mathematics at all rather he defended it in his book the Tahaafut--Mr. Hoodbhoy has made a big mistake there in his dislike of the defenders of Islam. This was Imam Ghazzali`s genius that he mastered the methods of his opponents and used their own methods to refute them! If we add to his influence on European thought--eg Thomas Equinas is HUGELY indebted to Imam GHazzali and used the Imam`s works extensivley in his defence of some of the church`s teachings!!-perhaps his greatest ever achievement (one of many!!)which was to for ever unite the fuqaha and the sufis and show that indeed sufism was a central part of islam, nay its heart, and this way unite the Muslims all over the world till this day (recent heretical modernist movements like the wahaabis and rashid rida etc. not withstanding), he for my money is without doubt the greatest human being of the past christian 1000 years. In fact if he did nothing else other than write the Ihya that alone would probably be enough as the Ihya (a work of 4 volumes, 10 books each volume-about 4000 large pages) as Imam Suyuti once said is so great that if all the books of Islam were lost and it alone remained, it would be but a little loss! May Allah give us the insight and tawfeeq to honour our illustrious predecessors and not slavishly follow the latest western ideologies and take them as our role-models! To top it all up Hazrat Imam GHazzali was a kaamil wali as well, a Perfect Master, and an Insaan al Kaamil like his close contempories Mawlana Rumi and Hazrat Shaikh Abdul QAdir al Jilani (may Allah be pleased with them all).

I would agree that Newton was in the top 5 for his influence in science especialy in mechanics and his invention of calculus...

Has Einstein actually had a big influence on the lives of the common man??

..to be cont`d..

Re: #83 Asif Naqshbandi

And who gave you the right to declare Wahaabis heretics. Did Allah came down and had a chat with you on the subject? Were you also notified about Qadianis? When is the Almighty planning to declare Shias heretics?

Amir Janjua

Amir Janjua,

Your question (Did God come down and have a chat with you?) made my day. I`ll try to remember this line next time I run into one of the several thousand self-appointed God`s spokesmen in Pakistan.