Unnoticed Invisibility

rajanjua, Re #53

Yes RaJanjua, I`d love to read what you have to say about SUKAYNA (Sakeena) as well. Being a muslim of shia origins, all I hear of that name is the cries of her childhood misery at the time of Karbala. Unfortunately I myself don`t know anything more significant about this lady than that ``there is a possibility that she lived a long & productive life.`` The childern of the Prophet and their race was scattered to the winds by the powers that be (namely the Khulafa of Islam) because they always felt threatened by the popularity and emotional response they garnered.. The shia, it seems to me, (and I say this only from limited personal experience,) often limit themselves to the mere rememberence of an event at a time when far more significant lessons await to be gathered. I sincerely hope you find it within yourself to share wish us what you know. If I can help in any way, either in terms of collaboration or editing/proofing, my contact information is below. (just remove the /images/... from the URL)

I don`t understand .........

How can anyone don the hijab and yet put on designer jeans with those hideous new-style platform shoes ?

How can they put on one of those skimy, mid-riff baring teeny-tiny blouses and then cover it all up with a baggy swear-shirt from the Gap ? Why ?

How dare one have posters of those dastardly Backstreet Boys and the hedonistic Nsync boy-men plastered all over their room and then have a picture of the Hajj adorn their locker ?

How can you refuse the innocent overtures of the poor love-sick FOB from Karachi and then go out on a date with your mother-arranged ``fiancee`` ?

Oh, how can you berate and deride those poor FOBs with their passion for cricket and nasty habit of saying ``pardon``, and then demand that Mom fix you up with a Paki resident in cardiology from John Hopkins ?

How dare you have a fit and yell, `` not desi khana again! `` and then demand that we have ``methai`` on Eid ?

How can you swooon over Ricky Martin and Hugh Grant and then profess that you want to marry a practicing Muislim ?

Why does your hijab-decked face show disgust and revulsion when I order a scotch ( on the rocks) while you innocently order the sald with haram grilled chicken ?

.................. and then there was her. On a hot summer afternoon, when the loo blows and forces the shopkeepers in Liberty to pull down their shutters and the rehri-wallas seek the shade, she ventured out to the coffee shop to keep her promise. A promise she had made in a few hurried whispers at the railway station, at the end of a six hour journey that began with an innocent exchange of glances.

Her hands shook ever so slightly as she clasped the mug of cold-coffee and raised it to lips dry with anticipation. She looked down at the new formica as she whispered, `` I can only stay for a few minutes``. And he had nothing to say except, `` I can drop you off on my motor-bike``, as he looked at her trying to catch her eye and wishing he could reach out and wipe the little beads of sweat on her forehead. She adjusted her college-uniform dopatta and brushed back a wisp of hair, trying to look brave, maybe wondering, `` what the heck am I doing here ?`` Her friend, her travel companion, had warned her, told her not to be stupid, and had accompanied her to browse at the book-shop a few doors down. But she had to follow har heart, do what she felt she had to do, and now she was here. Face to face with a stranger she had exchanged glances with for a few hours; a strnager who made her nervous, yet happy. But she knew she had done the right thing in following her heart to the little coffee shop in Liberty.

The sahmi-kebabs and chips stayed untouched and she didn`t notice her bell-bottomed friend come in and slip into a corner booth. He lit a Goldleaf, and she watched the smoke rings with an amused half-smile as they rose to dance in the sunbeams that in sneaked through the blind. He wanted to reach out and touch her hand as it nervously played with the fork, but .... She wanted to gaze into his eyes to look past the bushy sideburns and moustache, but .....

Strange and awkward, but there were no pretenses, no rehearsed lines, no pre-conceived order, no notions of propriety - right or wrong, it was what it was. She was herself and he was himself. It all made sense then and it all makes sense now. What doesn`t make sense is the Gucci clad, Ms reading, Gloria Stenheim quoting Muslima who covers her red-dyed hair under a designer hijab !

Umairr, Re #54

What you say makes a lot of sense. I wonder why Solitude hasn`t come across Muslims like you.

temporal, Re #55

This ranting and raving of Solitude reminds me of Shahbaz who used to express equally outrageous and insulting comments about Islam.

rajanjua, Re #53

Why don`t you post an article about SUKAYNA. I, for one, would like to read more about her. Call it my ignorance, but I had never heard of her before.

re. #55:

``Rant: n. loud, wild, extravagant speech.

Rave: v.i. to talk incoherently or wildly, as a delirious or demented person.

Are these sermons rants or raves?``

I`d say `Rant`. For while the `sermons` in question have been (pleasurably) wild, (joltingly) loud and (titillatingly) extravagant, they show no signs of either incoherence, delirium or dementia.

When one rants more eloquently, its called poetry or extolled as good polemic prose.

If that is ranting, I wanna see some more. There are still all those little gems of truth that sparkle through the coarse, dirty, stony mud you`re digging up and throwing at our faces, Sol. If this be the only way you make your point, so be it.

Umair, re.#54:

``By the way, no one has the right to pass a decision on who is a Muslim, and who is not a Muslim, regardless of the dancing and partying.``

``Religion is one`s private business. One should not label someone one way or the other. Only God knows who is who, and what is what. No one can sit on a pedestal and declare someone an ultra-fanatic, or an ultra-liberal, a Muslim or a non-Muslim.``

Umair, I beg to differ. Religion as one`s private business may be the best ideal to come out of the Protestant Reformation, but is NOT an Islamic priniciple (nothwithstanding the one ayat that liberals are fond of quoting: ``There is no compulsion ...``, which flies in the face of the 1001 dictates.) There is an inherent contradiction in a Muslim spouting the liberal individualist values of the post-Rennassaince West. That was my point.

And while I WAS passing a judgement, it was of a philosophic nature (as with a judgement on whether an `Economy car` with luxury car features can still be called an economy car)-- and was in no way violating the `live and let live principle`. I WOULD, however be violating it if I were to, say, exhort my followers to ``kill the unbelievers``. Yes, you can accuse me of quoting selectively here, but aren`t two of the basic premises of Islam `total submission` and the incontrovertability of the Koran? This is where I see the contradiction. It would seem to me that there is very little room for flexibility in a situation of `perfection.`

That is why it irks me when I hear Muslims- whose personal integrity I don`t question- say, ``Look-ee, we`re Muslims, but we can sing and dance and write poetry with sexual overtones``. See, there`s a contradiction there. Hypocrisy even. And so I do question the logical integrity! I think one has to be blind, or not understand what it means to be a Muslim (or not want to), or confusing Western liberal ideology for Islamic, to be making such claims. It is one thing to say ``Okay, we can be Muslims, even with our `defects` (which we try to overcome)``; but quite another to say ``hey, come on, try these `defects`, being Muslim doesn`t stop you from `enjoying` them.``-- which in essence is what you WERE saying earlier.

No, Umair, I think it is NOT for each to define `Muslim` for him/herself. I think that`s a disingenuous claim for a religion that is so very detailed in its dictates on morality and punishment.

You say some of your friends who ``used to drink quite a bit, and, ``danced`` every now and then`` are better Muslims for regularly risking their lives. I agree at some level. But do you realize that you`ve just passed judgement? It`s unavoiable, because we cannot escape measuring the actions of men against the ideals he claims to represent. But the danger here, of course, is that when you have a `flawless` set of ideals, who is to say which are greater than others? to a Taliban militant, dancing, drinking and writing erotica might consitute as big, if not bigger, vices than say, not treating the poor with justice.

``However, I think it is incorrect to pass a blanket judgement on either, unless one knows each one of them personally.``

No one is passing judgement on anyone in toto, just on the integrity of their logic. I have friends from every conceivable background, and can happily say that their, and my, dogmatism falls by the wayside once we are able to connect on a human-to-human level. It is not people I`m disgusted by... just inane justification and, sometimes, hypocrisy... which DOES lead to regrettably inhuman acts in disharmonious times. (And I`m not speaking only of Islamic dogmatism here-- the West has it`s own `liberal` dogma that charges up it`s own fears.)

regards,

Patrick

btw, khattak, I suppose, would be permissable within the dictates of Islam. As long as it`s performed without that objectionable accompaniment (music), that is. Insofar as that goes agaisnt the recommendations of the Perfect Man, that`s sort of un-kosher, if not illegal.

Temporal wrote:

``Re: #10, 23, 25, 29, 49, & 52.

Have a tough time deciding between rant and rave.

Rant: n. loud, wild, extravagant speech.

Rave: v.i. to talk incoherently or wildly, as a delirious or demented person.

Are these sermons rants or raves?``

Why not both? I don`t think the two words are mutually exclusive :)

Add to that an utter disrespect for rational and decent discourse, then we begin to see that neither of the two words would suffice to describe the abuse hurled by the hate monger.

I suppose this is where the intellectual cripple jumps in, feigning a pitiful Pakistani accent while continuing to spew his venom. How original.

My hats off to Uzma for maintaining her cool.

} Perhaps you should ask yourself what you really know before assuming that you know better...

You`re right, I don`t really know much - except for the fact that you are certainly not the woman in this poem. And there is nothing more I was referring to by that - merely shallow - statement. I actually resonated with some of what you said in here, but wondered why so much of what I am seeing on chowk is depressed, dejected, ``woe-be-unto-me`` sorry material. Is this all that our culture is about? Is this the only way of writing that expresses our viewpoints? Our people? YOU?

Harappa Reply #: 60

} chalay, aap hi batadijay kay may koun hou.

Unfortunately the more I uncover the further I am from understanding you. Enigmatic? Maybe not so much - a little cryptic maybe. Angry at the world, at men, at society, culture, history - closer to the truth there I believe. Or maybe I should say ``seems that way at present``. Don`t know if I`ll be able to explore much further though, the walls are too high to peer over, and no doors seem visible.. though I try. (A guide wouldn`t hurt.. if the city cared to be explored, that is.)

I had a vaguely uneasy feeling when reading parts of ``Invisibility`` that I may have more than just passing influence on it`s origination/ inspiration... & believe me it wasn`t a nice feeling. (Re: }The one sitting next to you, [...] [un-]notice[d]?) Does it not occur to you that there may be men in this society who, trying to please tradition, history, parents(?), etc.. go through the same cr *p that women go through? Would I have been out of place penning those same words? In fact, when you`re a thinking feeling and independent man (as I dare not admit to be in your presence, lest I be thrashed out of existence!@@!) it`s harder to put a boulder on your own desires when trying to live up to a culture that doesn`t give a hoot about what you want. But you know all about this train, because you see it clearly enough from the parallel-yet-opposite side. I wonder if there`s a way to make you realize that I am aware...? (Or if there`s any point? Though I am never quick to judge, and therefore leave that statement within brackets. juzt a side thought.)

}Most of your questions about inspiration, I have

(just) answered...

I object your honor! Maybe in my limited capacity to fathom your depths, your finally putting me in my place has escaped me. Would you _please_ revisit this answer and put it forth a bit more plainly?

Re: ...which dimension are you on today, my friend? Self-fulfilling prophecies... *amused smile * ...

I don`t see that smile as too amused. I don`t see the origin of this animosity. I apologize for giving you reasons to make you consider me ``the enemy``. I am no different (right now) than a mouse trying desperately to find it`s way through this maze it has been placed in because the cruel ``observers`` have situated the ``reward`` at the hardest point for me to reach - from where I am. If only failure in ``my`` maze was something as simple as hunger... (By the way, please don`t respond with pity if that`s what you were going to do, at this point. I am simply on a quest the culmination of which is what`s right for ``me.`` No comments solicited.)

}As long as I carve my own lines, I can tell you what`s going to happen...

What I am trying to figure out is whether there is any benefit in ``my`` lines intersecting, or - unlikely as it may seem - co-existing, with these that I see so full of anger towards what I am certainly am not trying to be the cause of. How do you know I may not be trying to help you, in understanding if in nothing else, or at least in trying to? (And possibly in helping others do so.. educate the world, remember?) Do you ever evaluate your own ``KNOWlier-than_thou`` attitude and try to see where you may be reading something a certain way simply because of what YOU feel, your point of view, or place in life? Have you ever known yourself to have made a mistake Uzma? Do you go over them and try to learn what lessons you may? Might you be making one here? Circumstances, events, it seems, present us in ways that totally alter the reality of who we truly are. You have already made your judgments about me. }``aap hi batadijay`` seems condescending to me, please forgive my saying so. There is nothing to tell. You already know what you know.

I wonder how you and I would have fared had we met on a ``dig`` somewhere real, like the plains where ``Unearthing yourself`` was merely a subset of the mission... nothing more than a side note. As it is, my introduction to you doomed the possibility from the start.

}or what`s definately not. :)

Say that where it counts - if you continue to believe it. Please.

As for who I am, let not my responses over-rule ``my`` lines, because that is where MY statements are made:

http://pages.hotbot.com/arts/abbas_zaidi/images/Ramooz-e-Khudi.jpg

PM: 48: ``I`m assuming that when you say dancing, you`re not referrring to the `shadow` variety, but have some a sinful woman-non-mehram scenario in mind.`` Actually I was refering to khattak dance. Is that legal? :)

By the way, no one has the right to pass a decision on who is a Muslim, and who is not a Muslim, regardless of the dancing and partying. Perhaps a dancing partying Muslim is more of a Muslim than you or I. Some of my closest friends in the military used to drink quite a bit, and, ``danced`` every now and then. They regularly risked their lives for their country, however. To me they are better Muslims then many non-dancing Muslims I know. Being Muslims, the dancing and drinking part is a defect they have, but obviously that does not describe their complete persona.

Religion is one`s private business. One should not label someone one way or the other. Only God knows who is who, and what is what. No one can sit on a pedestal and declare someone an ultra-fanatic, or an ultra-liberal, a Muslim or a non-Muslim. Live and let live. If someone doesn`t like the dancing partying Muslims, they should avoid them. If someone doesn`t like the Mulsims of the bearded-religious variety, then they should avoid them, as well. If someone has only come across one type, then they should go out and try to meet the other type. However, I think it is incorrect to pass a blanket judgement on either, unless one knows each one of them personally.

SUKAYNA

-------

``Sukayna was born in year 49 of the Hejira (about AD761). She was celebrated for her beauty, for what the Arabs call beauty - an explosive mixture of physical attractiveness, critical intelligence, and caustic wit. The most powerful men debated with her; caliphs and princes proposed marriage to her, which she disdained for political reasons. Nevertheless, she ended up marrying five, some say six husbands. She quarreled with some of them, made passionate declarations of love to others, brought one to court for infidelity, and never pledged ``ta a`` (obedience, the key principle of Muslim marriage) to any of them. In her marriage contracts she stipulated that she would not obey her husband, but would do as she pleased, and that she did not acknowledge that her husband had the right to practice polygyny. All this was the result of her interest in political affairs and poetry. She continued to recieve visits from poets and, despite her several marriages, to attend the meetings of Qurashi tribal council, the equivalent of today`s democratic municipal councils. Her personality has fascinated the historians, who have devoted pages and pages, sometimes whole biographies, to her.

You can imagine my surprise when I was accused of lying at a conference in Penang, Malaysia in 1984, where I presented Sukayna as a type of traditional Muslim woman for us to think about. My accuser, a Pakistani, editor of an Islamic journal in London, interrupted me, shouting to the audience:`` Sukayna died at the age of six!`` Trying to snatch the microphone away from me in vindictive rage, he kept repeating: ``She died at Karbala with her father! She died at Karbala!`` Then smugly assuming the role of ``qadi``, he demanded that I name where I found my version of Sukayna`s history. I furnished him a list on the spot-in Arabic obviously. He looked at it with disdain and told me it was very scanty. In fact, it contained the names of Ibn Qutayba, Ibn `Abd Rabbih, Ibn `Asakir, al-Zamakhshari, Ibn Sa`d, Ibn al-Ma`ad, al-Isbahani, al-Dhahabi, Al-Safadi, Al-Washaa, al-Bukhari - in short, the great names of Muslim historians.``

-- Fatima Mernissi (The Veil and the Male Elite)

Sukayna was the daughter of Hussain, grand-daughter of Ali, great-grand-daughter of Muhammed. She died in Madina at the age of 68. Some sources report that she died in Kufa at the age of 77, which is unlikely, because she did not like Iraq or Iraqis-``You killed my grandfather(Ali), my father(Hussain), my uncle(Hassan) and my husband``, she once told them. Mus`ab Ibn al-Zubayr, the husband she loved the most, was killed by Umayyad caliph, `Abd al-Malik Ibn Marwan.

Dear Uzma:

re.#43

Thanks for helping me get over my myopia a little. Yes, it does read very differently the way you suggest it should be read.

:-)

PM

Came accross this in the Letters in the Toronto Star this morning. Think it kinda relates to the issue (or at least to one thread), apart from providing an unfunny commentary on the real state of personal freedoms and vice-police. Anyone doubting that North America is still very puritannical and eroptophobic at heart, take note (--And please, don`t even try to make it an economic issue!)



Arrest prostitutes, not the men they lure

The sad case of Dr. Wilbert Keon should bring about a change in police operations to combat prostitution on the streets.

In many countires, ``johns`` are not apprehended nor prosecuted. To clear the streets of prostitution, they clear the streets of prostitutes.

To create pseudo-prostitutes out of lascivious female police officers to tempt male libidos and then impute the fall to sin seems rather a convoluted way of trying to achieve this goal.

Presumably, the female police officer is selected with care as to her form, shape and size and dressed seductively and placed on a street corner, and maybe she hitches up her skirt nad makes eye-contact and smiles invitingly. Any man with an ego, single or married, in any station of life, a healthy individual more often than not, would make that primordial move that is ingrained in the male of any species. Then the arm of the law grabs him.

Mark one up for the anti-vice squad and $400 for hte john school.

If this is not entrapment, then what is? Where is the Charter of Rights and Freedoms? Surely there should be other ways to combat the world`s oldest profession than placing police Delilahs in the streeets. Maybe they should arrest the temptress and not the tempted, as is done in many countries, and leave it at that.

--Sinna I Francis, Toronto



But the temptresses, we will hear from certain quarters are really the // *victims// *, since they are the ones being `objectified`. The PC police seem to be saying ``Women have been subjugated for too long by big bad men and their evil libidos, and will NOT put up with it any more. Off with their heads! (And blindfold them so they don`t know who did it)``

Umairr (#43):

I`m assuming that when you say dancing, you`re not referrring to the `shadow` variety, but have some a sinful woman-non-mehram scenario in mind.

Hey guys... does any 1 remember if some1 has written a poem on chowk about loveless lives..

chowkwala..

Adnan.

PM:

I humbly accept your praise. thanks.

try re-reading the lines ``not all men..`` etc with more anger in your voice, tremblings with passion and unfair generalizing accusations. :) it might sound different...or it may not. there are no (or rather, not supposed to be any...) apologetic tones in this poem. and the interesting part is that I am not the woman in the poem...I am the woman sitting next to her... *amused smile *

again, thanks. :)

adaab arz-hai

Oops! my first reply *did * appear at #19. Don`t know how I could have missed it !?

PM: Reply 38: Does dancing really turn a Mulsim into a non-Muslim? I was unaware of this.