Twosome Troubles of Troublesome Two

Re: #25 gymnosophist

Well I am happy for you my pagan friend :-)

wafa-dari ba-shart-i-ustwari shart hai

marey butkhaney may to garo Ka`ba may Brahmin ko

-Mirza Ghalib

p.s. don`t ask the same question in Kansas, you might get disturbing answers.

Re: #25 gymnosophist

Well I am happy for you my pagan friend :-)

wafa-dari ba-shart-i-ustwari shart hai

marey butkhaney may to garo Ka`ba may Brahmin ko

-Mirza Ghalib

Ref TAhmed321 #: 17

You say {Your reply to wiseguy was so full of anti-Muslim stereotyping, that you unintentionally re-inforced the point wiseguy was trying to make.

Congratulations.}

There was nothing unintentional about it. The irony perhaps was lost on you.

Ref rajanjua #: 20

The explanation is that PN Oak is a stupid, ignorant RSS cadre from Maharashtra. These guys reject history just like people on the other side do.

Why can`t PN Oak take comfort from the fact that Shivaji, a fellow Mahratta, outwitted Aurangzeb and escaped from capture? No, he has got to prove the greatness of Hindus over Muslims in every aspect even at the cost of looking like a fool.

The modern explanation might be that he is trying to compensate for a short you-know-what.

Ref rajanjua #: 15

You say {The lengths we Pakistani go for some sort of normailsation between the two countries and to save you pagans from injustices of caste system and fires of hell. :-) }

Ah! Read my reply to ali1 to find out how the cunning Brahmins have infiltrated Pakistan to try to ensure that you guys still remain Hindus at heart! ;-)

Regarding your use of the word pagan: I have always asked my American friends whether I would be considered a heathen or a pagan. They are acutely embarrased until I tell them the only reason I ask the question is because I want to belong to the group that holds the better orgies! The universal conclusion is that the pagans have more fun. I am glad you put me in that category! I certainly am having the time of my life, trying to reach across the ether and elctronically pick up people by the scruff of their necks to see if I can shake some sense into them.

Ref ali1 #: 22

You say {``I can already hear gymnosophist screaming in the background: ``IN TEN YEARS ILLITERACY WOULD BE WIPED OUT FROM INDIA AND BANGLADESH...``}

That, for your information, was from an article in Dawn published last May, by a Pakistani author on the poor state of education in Pakistan.

It should be a matter of sorrow to every thinking person that not only will there be illiteracy, but the burden will fall more heavily on women.

It certainly is NOT a matter of joy to me that I will have a neighboring country that has a ready source of supply for shahadat-seeking illiterate jihadis.

Ref ali1 #: 13

You say {Your replies # 15 and # 5 show that the only way you can interact is by attacking other people personally, getting to the level of families/fathers etc.}

Oh, come on! I talked about well-documented sociological aspects of Muslim life such as marrying 4 wives, keeping women under subjugation by using physical force if necessary, divorcing them at will and marrying new women, etc. Is this attacking families/fathers, etc? In fact, it was a response to wiseguy’s question about a Hindu teacher’s interaction with his father in the early part of the 20th century. I did NOT question wiseguy’s father’s veracity in reporting the treatment he had received at the hands of the teacher. Why do you react so viscerally when I, a Hindu, ask you about Muslim practices? Are you telling me it is okay for a Muslim to tell us how ignorant and backward Hindus are but Hindus cannot pay you back in kind?

Can you prove that a single instance of what I mentioned about Muslim social/personal life is not happening anywhere in Pakistan, India or Bangladesh? Or, in other Muslim countries? Should I instead have used a different instance such as honor-killing, for which I could have dredged up the Samia Imran case?

I shall even grant you that the Samia Imran murder was NOT sanctioned by Islam but only by Pathan tribal customs. I shall further grant you that Islamic society in Pakistan is not homogeneous in its observance of Islam and that tribal culture takes precedence over Islamic principles. Why, then, don’t you accept the fact that Hinduism does not even have a defined set of rules of behavior like Islam does, that the people populating India are collectively called Hindus though their religious practices vary widely, and picking up an incident involving a UP Brahmin is NOT TYPICAL of India of even those days?

Try reading the books: Castes and Tribes of Southern India, of Central India, of the Punjab, Castes of Bengal, etc. Then tell us you have truth on your side when you paint all the ``Hindus`` with the same brush.

Let me give you a personal example. When I was in 7th grade, one of the teachers asked all the students in class to identify their castes. (This was at a time when such a question could be asked by the teacher. It is no longer the case.) The kid next to me answered that he was a Harijan. It did NOT make me move to another desk, the teacher did NOT ask him to move to the back of the class, or anything else. That entire year, I sat next to that kid without ever thinking that I should not sit close to an Untouchable.

Let me add a little bit more background to that story. When my father returned from school daily in his younger days, he was required to enter the house through the backdoor, wash himself with water drawn from the well, and don fresh clothes, before he could enter the living area because at school he was mixing with all castes (I don’t believe any Untouchable/Harijan/Dalit went to school in those days, so we are not talking about people so totally degraded by society). My father not only did not make his kids do the same thing, he did not even tell us this was how life was in those days. I learnt it some 10 years after I graduated from college, when an older cousin was reminiscing about life in the old days.

That for you is an example of how life and people have changed in just one generation in India. People do not transmit even their personal beliefs and behaviors to their own children if those beliefs and behaviors are no longer in consonance with a changing society. And if they attempt to do that, the children are smart enough to reject it. Today, I have a cousin who is married to a Dalit girl and my wife’s cousin is married to a Christian guy. Those people are all welcomed in our homes as family. Thus my challenge to all of you shedding crocodile tears for the Dalits and telling us how Islam treats people equally. Educated Dalit women are there, not for ``taking`` as you put it so crudely but to meet with, to fall in love with, to marry, and to love and honor and cherish till death do you part, as my cousin has done.

What do you KNOW about what is happening in India? You think a billion thinking, breathing, alive people are going to be led around by a bunch of priests? Let me tell you a little home truth: we are NOT dumb. We are not Saudi Arabia, we are not Iran and we are not Afghanistan. (I am stopping there out of the personal respect I have for my friends from a neighboring country.)

It was you who said {Drink all the vodka you can and date as many dalit/brahmin/banya/thakur/rajput girls as you wish, you`ll always be a `musla` and a `malich` in the eyes of Brahmin bigots. Nothing (least of all your Banglore yatra) will change that.}

I responded {Must have touched a raw nerve, eh? You mean to tell us that your family ISN`T claiming to be descendants of Babar or perhaps some of the early Arab invaders of Sindh? Wow! What honesty!

Tell you what. Why don`t you change your last name to Butt? At least, you can make the claim that you were once Kashmiri Pandits!}

Your response was {I will post later explaining *your * family background and the sexual habits/preferences of *your * father, mother and other family members.}

Again, you couldn’t handle it when I needled you, could you? It is okay for you to mock the Hindus but you are a little bit too thin skinned to handle what I dish out. How many of you will ever face history and accept the fact that you cannot continue defining Islam as NOT-HINDU and Pakistan as NOT-INDIA? We in India have embraced everything that is good that the invaders brought us. Is not the Taj Mahal THE symbol of India? Have Indians stopped singing classical music because of the Persian influence on the music? Do Indians define India as Hindu, whatever that term may mean? Why do you people reject your ties to the land you were born in, your patrimony, your heritage, and go looking for lineage to the Arabs who treat you like dirt?

We don’t care who you are or who you THINK you are. For all we care, you could all in fact be descended from Arab or Mongol nobles, unsullied by impure Dalit or other blood from the subcontinent. How quaint! How so Brahminical! My God, we shall soon find true Brahmins only in Pakistan and they will all be Islamists!

Are you sure this idea of tracing your roots to Arabs and Mongols is NOT a Brahmin plot to undermine Islam? You know how cunning the Brahmins are. They waited hundreds of years to get rid of Buddhism. This could lead to the death of Islam in Pakistan. All the more reason for you guys to marry Dalit women and destroy the purity of bloodlines.

Still no takers, I see.

RE: rajanjua # 20



`` I can already hear gymnosophist screaming in the background: ``IN TEN YEARS ILLITERACY WOULD BE WIPED OUT FROM INDIA AND BANGLADESH-IN TWENETY YEARS EVERY INDIAN WOULD HAVE A PHD-YOU DAMN JEHADI TERRORIST CONVERT, HOW DARE YOU MALIGN US USING THIS EXAMPLE!!!! THIS IS AN ISOLATED CASE OF THE COW-BELT!!) ``

Raja ji, Bhole Badshaho!

You overestimate gymno`s class. He would rather post some trash about your parents/family.

Ali

layman #19:

you misunderstood my post #11. it is a rebuttal to umairr`s post in the other thread. i reproduced a part of umaiir`s post (within `[ ]`)in which he claimed that india`s missiles were named after `hindu generals`

the point you have raised in your post is exactly what i was conveying to umairr.

Re: #14 sadna

What baffles me is the following nonsense-Please explain-

This article is taken from the web-site:

http://www.flex.com/

Re Concerned #11

I think you are mistaken when you say that India named the `Prithivi` missile after Prithiviraj Chauhan. As you might be aware, Prithvi means Earth and is among the five `basic elements`. The naming convention only follows the pattern: Agni (Fire) is another `basic element`.

Indian missiles have not been based on historical figures but things like air, water, sky etc.

gymnosophist

Your reply to wiseguy was so full of anti-Muslim stereotyping, that you unintentionally re-inforced the point wiseguy was trying to make. Congratulations. And while you were at it, you also unintentionally revealed your level of respect for Dalits by assuming their girls were there for the taking. Not a bad days work.

Re: #8 gymnosophist

Dawn 09 January 2000

Cyber-love lands Pakistani in Indian jail!

NEW DELHI, Jan 8: A Pakistani stockbroker who landed in India to marry a woman he has been dating on the internet was arrested in the western city of Bombay for violating visa rules, reports said on Saturday.

Abab Ahmedi, 25, a Lahore stockbroker, has been in police custody since Dec 18 for among other reasons providing a wrong address of stay, the Indian Express reported.

Police said Ahmedi, a Muslim, met his Hindu management student wife in a chat room on the internet and they communicated regularly through e-mail in the last one year. Ahmedi flew down to Bombay on Dec 2, 1999 and the two lovers went to New Delhi to escape the wrath of the girl`s family and got married there. They returned to Bombay on Dec 17.

The next day someone tipped off the police that Ahmedi was not staying in a hotel as mentioned in his visa form but with a family in the city. The police arrested the cyberlover.

He has been remanded to judicial custody for violating India`s Foreigners Act until Jan 11. Police confirmed Ahmedi had no criminal links. Meanwhile his wife, whom the authorities refused to name, said in her plea for his release that they would go to Pakistan once he was let off.-dpa



The lengths we Pakistani go for some sort of normalisation between the two countries and to save you pagans from injustices of caste system and fires of hell. :-)

Re: #8 gymnosophist

Dawn 09 January 2000

Cyber-love lands Pakistani in Indian jail!

NEW DELHI, Jan 8: A Pakistani stockbroker who landed in India to marry a woman he has been dating on the internet was arrested in the western city of Bombay for violating visa rules, reports said on Saturday.

Abab Ahmedi, 25, a Lahore stockbroker, has been in police custody since Dec 18 for among other reasons providing a wrong address of stay, the Indian Express reported.

Police said Ahmedi, a Muslim, met his Hindu management student wife in a chat room on the internet and they communicated regularly through e-mail in the last one year. Ahmedi flew down to Bombay on Dec 2, 1999 and the two lovers went to New Delhi to escape the wrath of the girl`s family and got married there. They returned to Bombay on Dec 17.

The next day someone tipped off the police that Ahmedi was not staying in a hotel as mentioned in his visa form but with a family in the city. The police arrested the cyberlover.

He has been remanded to judicial custody for violating India`s Foreigners Act until Jan 11. Police confirmed Ahmedi had no criminal links. Meanwhile his wife, whom the authorities refused to name, said in her plea for his release that they would go to Pakistan once he was let off.-dpa



The lengths we Pakistani go for some sort of normailsation between the two countries and to save you pagans from injustices of caste system and fires of hell. :-)

#11

The `Muslim generals and Hindu generals they vanquished` have been puzzling me exceedingly, too. Given such a simple interpretation of history, what reasons do the self-proclaimed victors have, for carrying around such a sense of injury against those whom they claim to have vanquished so comprehensively?

Sadhana

The pure genealogy question puzzles me, too. How can a whole nation answer for the good conduct of 10-25 generations-worth of each citizen`s ancestors?

RE gymnosophist # 15

Your replies # 15 and # 5 show that the only way you can interact is by attacking other people personally, getting to the level of families/fathers etc.

I will post later explaining *your * family background and the sexual habits/preferences of *your * father, mother and other family members. However my friends at chowk might edit it.....although they tend to more tolerant of Hindus/Indians posting trash on tis website.

Ali