Talibanization or the Turkish Model?

Omar`s Jihad in the Pakistani-National Press

Feb-March 1, 2000

Published FRIDAY TIMES, Feb 4th-10th edition, Letters to the ed

From dar-ul-harb



Sir,



Pakistan is a poor country that can ill afford to house so many illustrious convicted, and accused, politicans. In the interests of economy, I suggest that Sens. Zardari, Saifur Rehman, ex-Chief Minister Sindh Ghous Ali Shah, and exPM Nawaz Sharif should be housed together in a single room, so that they can all file a joint complaint against their ``inhuman treatment``. And BB, that unlawfully dethrowned, rightful queen of the deprived people of Pakistan, who await with bated breath, her royal homecoming should be ushered straight from the airport to join the other convicts. Meanwhile, Mullahs Fazlur Rehman & Qazi Sahib, with their ill-conceived public statements threatening foreign nationals, and urging insubordination and conspiracy within the ranks of the Pakistan army, appear to be itching to join the convicts.



Yours etc.,

Omar Mirza,

New York.

Dawn letters to the editor, Feb 15th

Inquiry into the working of madressahs

ACCORDING to news reports, in his first and detailed interview on PTV, Chief Executive, Gen Pervez Musharraf said that in order to increase literacy we would seek help from the army jawans and the mullahs because they are available everywhere in Pakistan.

But this is no reason to inflict obscurantists on the poor, innocent children of Pakistan to `educate` them. Innocent children need no education in bigotry, intolerance, and sectarianism at such an early age.

Mullahs themselves are barely literate, and their method of imparting `education` is rote-learning and memorization, combined with physical abuse. These are hardly the problem-solving skills required for a new generation of Pakistanis to compete in the marketplace.

I suggest instead, that an inquiry be conducted into the operation of all madressahs in the country, and those that are found guilty of child abuse, or those that call for the overthrow of the government by violent means, or the growing of long beards by all men (whether they like it or not), the teaching that followers of certain Islamic sects are kafirs, that Quaid-e-Azam was in fact Kafir-e-Azam, and that smashing up of T.V. sets and satellite dishes is the pressing need of the times, should all be closed down.

I assure the Chief Executive that with this step, literacy, shall not suffer.

OMAR MIRZA

New York, USA

Dawn letters to the editor March 1

Fresh start for Pakistan

IN the last 52 years, instead of following the Quaid`s creed of, `Unity, Faith, Discipline`, Pakistan has followed the creed of, `Bigotry, Intolerance, Sectarianism`.

Zia`s creation of separate electorates and politically motivated religiosity has done irreparable harm to Pakistan. By legitimizing the abuse of religion in politics, not only did he debase religion, but he legitimized and nurtured the religious extremism prevalent in Pakistan today, and brought it into the political mainstream. As a result, violence and killings in the name of religion have become commonplace in Pakistan.

Pakistan needs no ideological justification or excuse for its existence. It exists, therefore it is. That is enough. As for the notion that religious ideals are the glue that holds Pakistan together, the only times this supposed ideology of national integration has been put to the test, it has failed miserably - both in 1971, and the Baloch uprising in the 1970s. The truth is that Pakistan was created to ensure the Muslim minority did not suffer economic and religious discrimination in Akhand Bharat.

Sadly, and ironically, extremists here have institutionalized discrimination against religious minorities as a social, legal and political norm in society.

The Pakistani obsession with the need for religious justification for the existence of the state is a symptom of a national psyche that still harbours an insecurity complex vis-a-vis India. It is time for Pakistanis to shed this insecurity complex especially now that Pakistan has become a nuclear power.

Significantly, Pakistan`s first generally free and fair election after independence resulted in a landslide victory in West Pakistan for Bhutto running on a platform of `Roti, Kapra aur Makan`. He did not garner votes by adding the element of religion to the slogan. When he ran out of ideas, he added the fourth tier to placate the opposition.

A theocracy is neither based on the principles of social contract that underlie a true democracy nor on the consent of the governed. Either Pakistan can be a democracy or a theocracy for both cannot co-exist. The choice must be made unambiguously, between Talibanization or the Turkish model.

Will General Musharraf have the courage and foresight of an Ataturk, to lead the way, to face down the relatively small, vocal, unrepresentative, armed religious groups that constantly fan the flames of religious hatred, violence, bigotry, and pose the greatest threat to national security that the state has ever faced?

Pakistan deserves a new deal, and a fresh start on the basis of the principles of tolerance and equality of citizenship, espoused by the Quaid-i-Azam.

OMAR MIRZA

Hempstead, USA

my maid is of the considered opinion that there is more `Musalmani` in the West, her reasons r that they r kinder to the poor and honest in their financial dealings ...:)

whats turkish about that???

chowkwala..

Adnan.

Very good point, pakistan has exploited afghanistan by syphoning the aid monies.

At last happy to see some `internal` criticisms of pakistan. (thanks to Bilal Ahmed for the contrived distinction)

I was told recently by a gentleman whom i know here in NY, recently, that an acquaintance Jamaati friend of his in Pakistan, after his wife had given birth to three daughters successively, was at the point of divorcing her! The Jamaati chap, saying 5 prayers a day etc blamed his wife for giving birth only to daughters! The gentleman i know in N.Y, explained to his friend, obviously in whatever unscientific language exists in Urdu, that it was actually not the woman`s ``fault``, but his own, and so prevented a divorce after the chap found 3 concurring opinions.

The second incident my father just related to me, as he arrived from Pakistan recently. Its very similar to the incident in the lounge in Jeddah that i wrote about, except this time the person expressing those views was an Afghan taxi driver in Karachi. This 21 year old, astute product of madressah education, and authority on world affairs (sounding much like Mullahs Fazlur Rehman & Qazi Sahib ... must be their speech writer no doubt), said that ``there is a Shaitan here in Pakistan: The U.S. And that this Shaitan wants to destroy the Muslims & Islam, and wants that the Jews should rule the world. First we shall destroy the Russians in Chechnya, then the Indians in Kashmir, and finally, on the strength of our faith alone, the United States itself``. Also of course, that every muslim has the right to live in Dar ul Islam, so as far as we`re concerned there is no Pakistan or Afghanistan, we can live whereever we want.

To this my father suggested, as I had previously in the Jeddah lounge, that they should try taking up residence in Saudi Arabia, since the Saudis are quite rich, only to be told that they prefer Pakistan (all 3 million of them have it appears, no intention whatsoever of leaving, Zia`s blessed legacy). Finally, as my father paid the fare he noticed the gentleman`s last name in the taxi, ``jehadi.``

Now what in G-D`s name has the United States ever done to affect this fellows life? But no, ``We will wage JIHAD on the United States``, no matter that they cannot even identify its location on a globe! Also, its apparent that madressah education can only produce this kind of ignorance and Pakistan simply cannot afford another generation of these people courtesy of madressahs.

The mullahs opposition to the CTBT is another example of this kind of irrational mindlessness that has spread its tentacles into mass culture all too firmly. It is in fact not even the treaty itself that they object to, for they do not understand it, but what they object to, is participation in a U.S dominated international order by Pakistan per se. Naturally, they have no responsibility for making payments on the national debt or rescheduling loans etc., what do they care for such trival matters ... ? Nor do they understand, or wish to, that if India resumes testing, so can Pakistan, and it has no effect on the use of atomic weapons in time of war or Pakistan`s ability to retaliate or even the production of more weapons. Nor do they understand that regardless of whether Pakistan signs the treaty or not, it cannot unilaterly test nukes in the current international atmosphere, without significant economic reprecussions. All this to them is mere surplusage to them, and besides the primary point as far as they are concerned. Rational debate cannot be conducted with these people while jihalat and poverty reign supreme.

FAULT OF OUR OWN

[My comments have narrowed the topic of your article to refugees/immigration, but I feel it is still relevant to your thesis.]

I would not agree regarding your refernce to bengalis. Their numbers are small and if bengali`s opt to stay and work in pakistan, they should be allowed to. We were one country once and that counts for something. Nevertheless, we should not let the numbers run too high.

Regarding the afghan ``invasion``:

Afghans are good hard woking people, and they have a distinct and different culture than ours. We may share a religion but we are completely different people (mixture of races).

The afghan war is over, the soviets have retrated, and its about time that over 3 million foreigners leave our country. I have lived in punjab and have visited NWFP frequently. This influx of people has changed our whole country over the years. Everywhere, from peshawar to quetta to karachi to even areas near gwadar.

40% of these 3 million ``refugees`` were women, more than half within child bearing age (this was in mid 1980`s). Eventhough some people have gone back to afghanistan, many have ``decided`` to stay in pakistan. One can calculate, keeping in mind extremely high birth rates among afghans, how many afghans reside in pakistan today.

This influx has changed the social fabric of NWFP and of Baluchistan (lets not forget baluchistan). Parts of Quetta seems more like jalalabad than a pakistani city. They live of our economy, and enjoy our resources (hospitals, schools, roads, subsidized food - and are outside any tax bracket).

I am outraged at this notion that many afghans in pakistan have , which is, that they have a right to live there because they are muslim (like the author, I have also come across many afghans who are quick to argue this). Personally i am sick of our muslim ``brothers``. for once I would like to meet a civilized person from a muslim dominated country west of pakistan (exception is turkey).

it is the patience(or stupidity?) of the pakistani public that they have tolerated this situation for so long. But one thing is for sure - it has certainly run out.

Zia and his incompetant planners are to blame for this. Instead of planning as defenders of pakistan, they planned as leaders of an Ummah. I dont know what complex these kind of people have. Why do they lend themselves to this Ummah concept. This is where our civil and military institutions have failed us. Instead of producing nationalists, they are producing this retarded and dangerous bunch. This bunch does not have pakistani interests at heart and have destroyed pakistan.

I am truly happy that people and politicians in NWFP (pakhtoonkwa) are finally reliazing that afghans have to go. There is finally a realization that pakistani pathans are a completely different people , truly apart from their pushto speaking afghan neighbours. A realization that has come in due time. Those old notions of imaginary brotherhood with aghans is DEAD in Pakhtoonkwa.

Pakistan national security planners and other military men need to be aware that the country can no longer tolerate another 10 years of war spillover from afghanistan - no matter how important afghanistan is to military planners. Nor do we want any afghans in Kashmir. Kashmiris know to fight for their people.

The Pakistani planners have among them a lazy ass bunch who have taken the easy road whenever a challenge arose. A small bunch of people in the afghan directorate have destroyed our afghan policy, evetually undermined our kashmir effort, isolated pakistan and gifted to the people of pakistan all what is before us.

It would be wrong to put blame the state of our economy on the afghan war, but it is fair to identify the root cause of the deteriorating social fabric on it. Ethnic strife, guns and drugs are one of the largest threats to pakistan today. And we have the afghan war to thank.

We should have kept all refugees in camps as the iranians did. Instead Zia ( retarded SOB) decided to emphasize his Ummah credentials and let everyone trot all over the country. If the Saudi`s love their muslim brothers so much, maybe they should take them.

What has past has past. It is imperative that people realize that tea time conversation is not the answer to the problem. People and politicians need to bring this issue to the surface and do something about this. We HAVE to take it head on. no other way. ALL Afghans have to leave.

General musharaf should do one favor to the pakistani people before he leaves (for which generations of pakistani children will thank him) and that is to completely revamp the afghan directorate within out national security quarters.

We should have people there who have allegiance to pakistan and nuetralize those elements who think,plan and act as if they are part of some imaginary UMMAH. These people are not only incompetant but are guilty of treason (acting as agents). Screw the Ummah. If the saudi`s want to expand their islam anywhere, let them do it themselves. Dont let pakistan be a proxy. If reasoning does not work, maybe its about time that our arab counsins get a taste of what it is to being a proxy state, to have terrorism be a part of everyday life. It should fix arab ambitions. I am positive that the pakistani national security planners and operations people have no intelligence assets in these supposedly ``freindly`` arab countries. We should watch our ``freinds`` as well - keep a thin rope around their balls.

Pakistan needs to fine tune our relationship with these arab states. no more bullshit!

Cut the source of the money and the afghan situation will get better. Better for pakistan, better for afghans.

Dear Omar,

Nice commentaries but please hold your horses when the right time comes. From one Omar to another and from one Paki to the other, we have a habit of saying things with so much conviction as what we say is the absolute truth. In my 21 years experience as a life form, if I`ve learnt one thing, it`s that you should give your opinion with a belief below 100%. I hope you`re not a Taurus, Capricorn or a Ram if you know what I mean. Please use a better role model than Mustafa Ataturk. The dictator single handedly destroyed Turkey in a bid to become modern. Believe or not, it is possible to evolve and adapt to new situations without being a Westerner. Saying that I sometimes think that Westerners act more Muslims than and civilised than us. I`ve seen the `modern, more advanced Western side Turkey.` I would rather have my balls shredded by a cheese grater. Isn`t it true that Ataturk made a law to not wear a Hijaab and instead wear trousers and so forth. This is the work of a dictator. Where was the freedom of speech then. This is just an example, and some may say a petty one, because life doesn`t change drastically with wearing a cotton sheet over a women`s head. Before you label me a mullah (chee chee chee), talking about women and women only (as in the hijaab), well I couldn`t care because I`m just giving an example. As for the Pakistan problem of leftover Afghanis, there are points I agree with and other points I don`t, but on the whole, It was a good, well commented article.

Kashmir dispute as a jihad

Pakistan`s open support of `holy war` emboldens a new cadre of militants. Robert Marquand

Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

MURIDKE, PAKISTAN

Outside a sleepy little farm town off the famed Grand Trunk Road here in the flat fields of Punjab, is the headquarters of the fastest growing militant group in Pakistan, the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Five years ago, few Pakistanis had heard of Lashkar - one of four main groups responsible for sending young men across the border to Indian-controlled Kashmir to attack Indian positions. But last November, a million followers met at this markaz, or ``center`` in Muridke, dramatizing a truism here: jihad is a growth industry in Pakistan.

No signpost marks the turn-off to the center. Clusters of armed men stare at, but do not stop, a white sedan as it crawls toward a set of buildings covered with Urdu language script so large it can be read for acres in all directions: ``O Faithful, taking revenge is your duty,`` reads one. ``Yesterday we beat Russia, now it is your turn America,`` says another, which gives way to an ethical reminder, ``Killing someone for money is terrorism.

``This is a complete jihadi environment,`` smiles one local, wearing a camouflage jacket over a Nike T-shirt. ``We prepare for jihad here, but we don`t train.``

At this center, or ``campus,`` as it is sometimes called, there is a strong feeling, emphasized by the No. 2 in command of Lashkar, Zakir Iqbal, that the fulfillment of jihad has arrived.

An open policy toward jihad in Kashmir by the new military-led government of Pakistan has emboldened Lashkar. The group boasts 2,500 recruiting offices in Pakistan and reportedly trains more than 40,000 men a year in guerrilla warfare and infiltration tactics - reasons why Lashkar is the most-feared group across the border in India, Pakistani sources say.

Lashkar`s growth means it likely has the backing of the Pakistani secret service, the ISI, Pakistani experts say.

Mr. Iqbal denies this. He says Lashkar`s sudden street power is due to a ``Muslim renaissance that is coming just as the Kashmir jihad most needs it.``

``[Pakistan`s new chief executive] Gen. [Pervez] Musharraf says there is only one point to make - Kashmir. We agree,`` says Iqbal, a tall strongly built middle-aged man who carries a cellphone, wears an expensive green designer safari jacket over a pure white shameez, and talks about the need to teach both the Koran and computer science. ``We will not go back from jihad. Our jihad is against the terrorism of the Indian Army, against the Muslims of Kashmir. We will fight until India talks. That is what we preach.``

In visits to several groups, it is evident that the foot soldiers of the jihad are ordinary Pakistanis - not the radicalized elite corps that made up mujahideenin past decades. Many plan careers as doctors or engineers once their Kashmir mission is complete. Also, while Pakistani officials long argued that jihad was a Kashmiri movement - it is clear the next generation of mujahideenare from villages all over Pakistan and Afghanistan, along with Kashmir.

In Muridke, everything says ``planning for the future.`` The shabby buildings inherited in the late 1980s are being replaced by new ones. A new mosque, a new college of Islamic learning, and a new primary school are finished. A large residency hall is about to be - and three more are under construction.

Two years ago, Lashkar had a small fish farm. Today, with the help of two Massey Ferguson tractors, the fish pond is acres wide, part of a farm that boasts cotton, vegetables, and cattle. ``But we don`t sell the fish, they feed the mujahideen,`` says Muhammed Ilios, a Lashkar official who moved here after a 17-year career with the Pakistan Air Force.



HIZBUL RALLY: Pakistani guerrilla fighters of the Hizbul mujahideenmarch in Lahore last July. The Hizbul are 1 of 4 Pakistani groups fighting for control of Kashmir.

MUZAMMIL PASHA/REUTERS/FILE



He likes a place where his five-year-old can memorize the Koran. ``There is no music, no entertainment, no cigarettes, no noise, and no pollution. It`s perfect,`` he says. Only 15 miles away is the headquarters of Jamaat-i-Islami, known as mansoora. At twilight, Majid ul Islam and several young men emerge from prayers at mansoora, their faces moist from ablutions.

Mr. Islam is a 23-year old district commander for Hizbul mujahideen, the military arm of Jamaat-i-Islami, a political party. His hair is neatly cut, he has a short beard, Izod shirt, and speaks articulate English. He has just come back from Kashmir, where he and his command of seven others spent five months, never sleeping in the same place more than three nights, he says, and at one point crossing so close to the Indian border patrol that he boasts he stole a water glass from them.

This center is a place where Islamic scholars, 12-year old boys, political science and engineering majors, veteran fighters, and a variety of mujahideen, all live and study together. Some from the Middle East have dubious passports, sources say. The former president of Chechnya, Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev, for example, was here several days earlier, asking for funds.

Judging by the number of young men who say they are ready to leave to fight in Chechnya next summer, and the number of Arab fighters who use mansoora for a transit point north, Chechnya`s president was an effective speaker.



BORDER PATROL: Indian soldiers run through a bullet-proof trench in northern India.The Indian-Pakistani fight for Kashmir has claimed more than 25,000 lives.

AIJAZ RAHI/AP



Islami himself, who trained for jihad in Kutli, a town in Pakistan-controlled Azad Kashmir, is taking a leave from from his job in Kashmir, and awaiting orders, while studying for his college exam. Among the shifting group of 10 to 12 young men, he is considered the most respected, since his rank was bestowed by Salauddin, the head of Hizbul Mujahideen.

``A few years ago no one talked of jihad, and my friends weren`t interested,`` says Islami. ``But now I definitely expect it to intensify. There is a lot more talk about it, and weapons are much more available.``

Islami says the job of infiltrating is made easier by the increased use of night scopes and by better relations with Kashmiri locals. During the late 1990s, the Pakistani based mujahideenwere often unpopular in Kashmir, where they commandeered food and were generally unpleasant. But the mujahideenhave taken steps to improve relations.

One young Afghan mujahideenwith sharp features and curly black hair, Janat Gul Ghaznavi, crosses over nearly every night he says. He did his training in Kutli where of 2,300 young men, about 500 were Afghanis. He did commando training, lived for days without food to simulate infiltration conditions, and then he says ruefully it took him 14 days to cross the first time he was given a mission. Now he does so at will, he says proudly, adding that few mujahideenget caught by Indian troops at the border, or are even confronted by them if the Indian commanding officer is not present.

``I am back here for relaxation, to get married, and to visit my village,`` he says casually. ``Then I will go back to Kashmir.``

In overall India-Pakistan relations, which by all reckoning is at a low point, much of the talk about jihad from Pakistan is designed to keep India afraid and off balance. The mujahideenhave talked about jihad for years, in very lurid terms. There is also the possibility that the Pakistani army is looking for militant groups to keep the pressure on India, while its own troops are busy collecting taxes and seeing to some of the other needs of the often disfunctional civil society.

Yet much of the jihadi talk is backed up by increased raids, and bolder attacks against military targets in the Kashmir valley. In recent years, jihadi movements have taken place in the spring. Yet attacks this year have remained steady through the winter months.

Last week, for example, another of the four major Kashmir jihad groups, al-Badar announced it will launch a major guerrilla operation against the Indian army in retaliation for the killing of 14 Muslims, allegedly by Indian commandos, in a village on the Pakistani side of the LOC. The head of Al-Badar in northern Pakistan, Muhammad Haroon, said the operations would be launched under the name of ``Shahadat (Martyrdom) Missions.`` Each of the four major militant groups now have a wing of suicide bombers, or faidi.

Most of the young men at the mansoora will either take the training, or have taken it. In the case of Lashkar, the youths go through a preliminary six-weeks training, then go home to think about whether they want to present themselves as full-fledged mujahideen. During this period, they wear the white shrouds they wear to the Hajj, the holy trip every good Muslim takes to Mecca. If they decide to become a real holy warrior, they say goodbye to their parents and friends - ostensibly for good - and present themselves at the camp.

Zakir Iqbal points out that not everyone is chosen.``It is an honor, and not everyone can qualify. We have to be careful that Indian intelligence does not penetrate our ranks,`` he says.

``This summer I will finish my studies and present myself,`` says Sultan Shaiib, a soft-spoken student of economics at the mansoora. ``Then, inshallah, I`ll finish the training, and start fighting in Russia.``

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Omar Mirza:

As somebody who has read your rantings in the past, your encounter with the Afghani was humourous. From where I sit, you and he are cut from the same cloth - a sense of Muslim ``otherness``.

I am not surprised by the reaction of the Afghan gentleman. All the Afghans I have talked to have loathing and hatred for Pakistan for having cynically used them for their own nefarious purposes in the 80s and for having gobbled up the $5 billion earmarked for the Afghans.

There is a clear lesson here for Kashmiris who are now at the receiving end of the brotherly love professed by Pakistan.

Truth:#12

How true to your name.Thank you for a pithy quip.

Moolah($)OMAR MIRZA

Ever heard of the soldiers of fortune operating in Latin America in Nicaragua,Chile,Colombia & Peru----and elsewhere around the world during the hot cold wet steaming freezing `war`?.How about sending the cuban exiles to kill that moral giant Castro? This all from the SATANITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Now that you have become a khalsa of this US by ``Chukking the amrit of amreeka``(meaning taken the oath and trying to find a niche for youself to prove your mettle,may I humbly ask you whose interest supreme you have at heart now? Pakistan`s,Islam`s,Afghanistan`s,Turkey`s or even India`s etc etc.According to your admission this oath that you have taken(or intend to take) must supersede every other oath taken prior to it.I do not have to elaborate on that.

I hope you will become a wonderful lawyer in USA and still work for the muslim Ummah,albeit now within the bounds of taqyyiah,and work towards fighting the oppression against muslims,blacks,and the red indians.Wounded Knee will always stay wounded until these oppressors restore all the rights to their rightful heirs.

Norm Chomsky & McArthur might lend a hand & so will thousands,maybe millions,of justice-minded Americans.

Your theatrics tell me that there are good chances of you becoming a politician & a crusader(jihadi? BA BA Blaksheep variety) rather than a cool & composed (& Cunning) lawyer....and I look forward to that & will support you.

wassalaam.

Hello Omar, Salaam Ale-kum.

Nice to read a well written article from you. You are very obviously pissed of with the

Afghans in your beloved Pakistan, and for right reasons. But the elderly US resident

Afghan wasn`t entirely wrong when he averred that Pakistan had used the Afghan situation

to its own advantage. After all, wouldn`t you agree, that Pakistan`s past and continuing

involvement in Afghanistan is not born out of purely noble sentiments of charity and

compassion. There is more to it, then you or other Pakistanis would want others to believe.

Apart from receiving generous aid from the US, acquiring more sophisticated weapons, a

virtual no-objection certificate for your nuclear program, you guys also got to

strategically control the destiny of Afghanistan, which you hoped and even now do,

will someday provide you with direct and cheap access to the oil fields and markets

of Central Asia. If Pakistan got involved to help the beleaguered Afghans then, what

was the problem with the Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (or was it the Rabbani govt?) regime in

Afghanistan ? Why did Pakistan go

out of its way to help install the obscurantist Taleban in Kabul ? Was it because the

Hekmatyar regime wasn`t pliable enough ? What else could it be, unless you are alleging

that the Soviets (or the Russians if you would) would have returned had not the Taleban

taken over.

So let`s not be too sanctimonious or adopt a ``holier than thou`` attitude about Afghans in

Pakistan. After all, your country is still finding it expeditious to use the Afghans

in your just Jihad in Kashmir, thus saving the lives of some Pakistanis who would

have had to inevitably go to boost the numbers of the mujahideen in the ``indigenous``

freedom struggle in the Kashmir valley, held by the cowardly Hindus and assisted by the

barbaric Sikhs of India.

Talking about Sikhs, if you haven`t figured this out already, these Afghan freedom

fighters in Kashmir are also killing many Sikh Indian army soldiers and officers in

the valley along with the savage Hindus. Hey come on, for this you must be singularly

grateful to them, shouldn`t u, after all they are indirectly avenging the partition time

deaths of your relatives at the hands of the Sikhs. Despite all the fire in you, living

in the United States you may not be able to fulfill your wish of slaying a Sikh to

avenge those unfortunate deaths. So the whole Afghan situation isn`t that bad a deal for

Pakistan and also personally for you. What do you say?

Cheers!

Satyavadi

Hello Omar, Salaam Ale-kum.

Nice to read a well written article from you. You are very obviously pissed of with the

Afghans in your beloved Pakistan, and for right reasons. But the elderly US resident

Afghan wasn`t entirely wrong when he averred that Pakistan had used the Afghan situation

to its own advantage. After all, wouldn`t you agree, that Pakistan`s past and continuing

involvement in Afghanistan is not born out of purely noble sentiments of charity and

compassion. There is more to it, then you or other Pakistanis would want others to believe.

Apart from receiving generous aid from the US, acquiring more sophisticated weapons, a

virtual no-objection certificate for your nuclear program, you guys also got to

strategically control the destiny of Afghanistan, which you hoped and even now do,

will someday provide you with direct and cheap access to the oil fields and markets

of Central Asia. If Pakistan got involved to help the beleaguered Afghans then, what

was the problem with the Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (or was it the Rabbani govt?) regime in

Afghanistan ? Why did Pakistan go

out of its way to help install the obscurantist Taleban in Kabul ? Was it because the

Hekmatyar regime wasn`t pliable enough ? What else could it be, unless you are alleging

that the Soviets (or the Russians if you would) would have returned had not the Taleban

taken over.

So let`s not be too sanctimonious or adopt a ``holier than thou`` attitude about Afghans in

Pakistan. After all, your country is still finding it expeditious to use the Afghans

in your just Jihad in Kashmir, thus saving the lives of some Pakistanis who would

have had to inevitably go to boost the numbers of the mujahideen in the ``indigenous``

freedom struggle in the Kashmir valley, held by the cowardly Hindus and assisted by the

barbaric Sikhs of India.

Talking about Sikhs, if you haven`t figured this out already, these Afghan freedom

fighters in Kashmir are also killing many Sikh Indian army soldiers and officers in

the valley along with the savage Hindus. Hey come on, for this you must be singularly

grateful to them, shouldn`t u, after all they are indirectly avenging the partition time

deaths of your relatives at the hands of the Sikhs. Despite all the fire in you, living

in the United States you may not be able to fulfill your wish of slaying a Sikh to

avenge those unfortunate deaths. So the whole Afghan situation isn`t that bad a deal for

Pakistan and also personally for you. What do you say?

Cheers!

Satyavadi

Tvarad, my sentiments exactly. I think Pakistan messed up Afghanistan and messed it up right royally. I am not saying that Pakistan was the only factor, but it certainly was the dominant one. Who else but the ISI were responsible for creating the Taliban (obviously with US funding). And once things started getting out of control, Pakistan easily pulled out. I do consider myself a patriotic Pakistani, but facts are facts!!!

By the way Omer, what is this Dar-ul-Harb place?? I am a New Yorker too, but have never heard of it, where is it???

Amit # 6

{The interesting thing to note is that between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, desis are now controlling everything from the Oxus to Burma. If only India and Pakistan can become allies instead of enemies, we can jointly become a superpower. Heck, India can even support Pakistan in becoming the leader in the Islamic world and extend its influence even further.}

Amit, you have started thinking like those war loving, trouble making, grudge holding Punjabis now :-). Remember your post? See what these few inter-actions with Punjabis can do to you? Now you can see how their character was shaped by the way they suffered, generations after generations, on the border and there does not seem to be any end to it.

Anyway, welcome to the fold. I just hope that you are not one of those ``brave`` people who want to fight your expansionist wars to the last Punjabi, or for that matter other poor soldiers and border people, just to avenge past injustices.

Regards.