The Bombing

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Reply #: 169 SR / temporal

I really think it`s a great idea; one that should be taken seriously; for Temporal`s plot to be developed into a novel. The Tom Clancy`esque technological precision that you are arguing about may not be significant in view of the wider scope of t`s projected scenario, which is rather superior to say ``The hunt for Red October``

You guys are talented in literary arts and I wish you would actually co-author ``The Bombing``.

Rgds.

I hope the verses posted on the Chowk should carry their translation for non-Arabic, non-Persian speaking desis or the poetry should be simple enough for all to understand, as in the case of the verse, in my last post:

Rab ka shukr ada kar bhai

jis naiN hamari gaye bhulai

I am surprised that no one questioned the deliberate replacement of ``banai`` with ``bhulai``. Let me tranaslate and explain this verse for the masters of Arabic and Persian languages here at chowk. Why do one needs those languages when our Urdu is excellent for expressing all sort of thoughts and emotions. So dear Chowkwallas, did your understanding of this verse was same as I intended.

Explanation: Brother, lets thank God for letting us forget the reverence for cows which we used to held sacred as Gaomata, before we converted willingly and happily to Islam. What a rapture! We can even eat them now. Thank Lord for sending peace-loving and women-hating Sufis so that we can have Rib-eye and T-bone steaks after few hundred years.

Few Als, Wals and Uls are not a heavy price for being able to stick teeth into juicy meat.

There is one country whose religious observations have had to undergo tremendous changes in view of the occupation of that country and the destruction of 95% of its religious buildings and expulsion of the priesthood.

I am referring to Tibet.

The Buddhists of Tibet agree that it is more important to hold on to their religious beliefs and culture and that this has been done by re-creating traditional Tibetan schools and monasteries in India and elsewhere and by preserving Buddhist texts. Yes, they would like to go back to Lhasa but if that means taking up arms against the Chinese -- a position antithetical to Buddhism which preaches non-violence -- they prefer not to take up arms.

The practice of the principles of the religion of Lamaist-Buddhism is more important to them than even pilgrimages such as the circumambulation of Mt. Kailash or Lake Manasarovar which an expatriate Tibetan cannot undertake anymore because of the Chinese occupation of Tibet.

They seem to have figured out what is more important: religious observance in the spirit or to the letter. A lesson that some Muslims may want to learn about and learn from. Unfortunately, those who seem to be most in need of such a lesson tend to believe that the Quran is the equivalent of ``Life`s Little Instruction Book``.

I recommend the book ``The Jew in the Lotus`` by Rodger Kamenetz to those who are interested in finding out more about the Tibetans` attempts to preserve their religion from a catastrophe of much greater magnitude than the destruction of one principal shrine.

OMAR1974:#168

I am glad you like Mirza Ghalib.I am also trying hard to convince myself that you like him because of his poetry.

So here is a treat for you:

``Mazsda aye zauq e Aseeree keh nazar aata haye

daam khalee quafas e murgh e griftaar kay pass.``

translating it would ruin it.More so it is specially for you!!!.This answers all your posts to me on this & other boards.



wassalaam

[``…Money or fame don`t interest me … co-author if you agree to manage and invest my share into a temporal trust. … in Oman or Southern Iran…provide … for the relief of sub continental cities … exposed to nuclear devastation…AND agree to…do the talk show circuit and plug away the book…``]

This sounds like a real deal.

Fame does not interest me either. Money, however, is a different matter! Money is unjustly maligned as a source of evil. It is not. There is nothing at wrong with money per se, it is the `lust of acquisition` that is really the root of much evil. Money is simply a tool that can be employed for good as well as evil. It is `potential energy` that is readily convertible to `kinetic energy` to do `work`. Though still a `msst malang` at heart, in my graying years, I`ve recanted my earlier `fikiri` stance and have learnt to welcome monetary gain because it represents `open options`. Options to help others or self indulge, as the case may be.

With your half of the proceeds we shall buy up the entire Army Navy Surplus stocks of tents and clothing. For medicines, we`ll have to seek donations, because my half of the proceeds will certainly not go to the drug companies. Besides, radiation sickness is incurable. All we can do is provide pain relief to the victims while their tissues gradually disintegrate. For pain relief I`d much rather pay Osama bin Laden for his cheap opium, sold by the kiloton, than pay a dime to the likes of Merk or Pfizer.

Your pessimism regarding the possibility of nuclear devastation in the subcontinent may not be too misplaced. The possibilities are there because all the elements are in place. The low value placed on `human biomass` (lets not even use the phrase `human life` for it is emotionally charged and gives rise to empty slogans) in that part of the world further erodes one`s optimism.


[``…As for the 72 minutes --- planes in 2020 will be capable of flying at 3 to 5 mach …carrying multiple air to air warheads ..attacks .. targets upto 500-800 miles away; the pilot can be hundreds of miles away when launching these missiles. He could effectively record their `kills` and return in 72 minutes…``]

Your friend sounds more inspired than informed. It is an unimportant tangent, but since the likes of Tom Clancy have already muddied the book-buyers` minds, we have to look into issues of techno-feasibility of our plot.

There is only one little problem with this futuristic warplane of ours: the laws of physics.

Even if we are to somehow rationally explain away how Major Uri acquired all the nuclear weapons security codes (they are not mere hand grenades which, if triggered and tossed away, will explode), it remains improbable that he, unaided, can make that round trip to Mecca with a Mediani detour. The missiles you refer to (the ones that acquire multiple targets - the so-called ``Fire-and-forget`` missiles) are of the `air-to-air` kind. Their aim is simply to blow away another airplane. Their `pay load` is very light, a few hundred grams at most. Rest of the weight is in rocket-fuel. Even then 500-800 miles is utter fantasy. The size of a missile capable of traveling that far will be too large to be carried by an agile war-plane. The planned air-to-air missiles you are talking about are going to be more in the 50 to 80 mile range. Just one Zero less. But those missiles are not even relevant. What Major Uri needs is not just one, but two, air-to-surface missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The smallest, most advanced, nuclear warheads couldn`t possibly be lighter than a thousand kilograms or so (is that about right, Dr. Physicist? My high school science is being stretched here). This means two thousand kilograms of payload. That`s getting heavy already without having to add rocket fuel to further launch these bombs as missile warheads.

See, if you are going to use an airplane as a delivery system, then the bombs are going to be fueled by gravity and inertia only. It makes no sense to fly a plane half way and then launch a missile. Weapons designers simply can`t sell such ideas to weapons buyers. Nuclear weapons are delivered either through a ballistic missile, a cruise missile or simply dropped from a plane. There are no hybrid delivery systems.

Come to think of it, we really need to go back to the drawing boards are come up with an alternate catastrophe scenario.

How about some Cossack terrorists planting a stolen Russian nuke in Mecca. (Let`s spare Medina, I beseech you, after all blowing up the kaaba should be enough to move the plot.) I realize it has to be a nuke. (Biologic or chemical weapons won`t do because you are not looking to kill a bunch of faithful mussalmeen as your plot`s main heinous act. It`s the destruction of the kaaba that moves the story line.)

Your main theme, i.e., `Hajj on wheels`, has a very rational appeal, I really like it. I only wish it could be accomplished without nuking a million hajjis. But, then the book won`t sell and we shall not be able to built the tent city for the radio active South Asian refugees in Oman.

Cheers!

...SR

FARANGI KUSH has now taken to quoting my favorite poet, Mirza Ghalib! Will wonders never cease! Most of his poetry (whether talking about Iman or not) was composed in a state of drunkenness, and what obscurantists would term moral debauchery today. Indeed, he is well known for composing paens in favor of drunkenness and odes to imbibing intoxicants. I`d be careful quoting him ! He would surely have offered you a glass of wine if you visited him, and chose to expound your Taliban philosophy and rule by unelected ulema as the panacea for the problems the Muslim world is facing!

Cheers!

OMAR MIRZA

Sameer #165:

Thanks for your interesting post.

Two phrases I will highlight from it: `middle of the road` and `peaceful co-existence`.

This morning conversing with a friend who is a closet fundamentalist, commenting on the cold blooded murder of those innocent Sikhs, I said ``My God is not their (murderer`s) God.`` He was taken aback. Poor soul.

If the moderates stand up, regardless of religion or politics, the world would be a better place.

regards

t

P.S. Am enjoying your posts and other responses on the Life article.

SameerJB

post---# 165

Eeman mujhe roakay hai tho khainchay hai mujhay kufr

Kaaba meray peechhay hai kaleesa meray aagay.

---------Mirza Assadullah Khan Ghalib

Ghalib-e Naam Avram,Naam-o namood mprus

Hm Assadullah hm,Hm Assadullah hm.

Devotee & servant of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Taalib.

Jaan Mohammed Khan

Safar Aasaan Naheen--

It is not easy to run away from Islam & its arab roots.It tames everyone as that great EQUALISER of humanity called DEATH nears.Many a headstrong bulls been cowed-down by IT.

Afraid? you`re o.k

temporal, I am not knowledgeable enough to respond to your excellent question. You may or may not find any relevant response in this post, to your following questions:

1: There is a need to define ritual and dogma, universalism as in truth, beauty and justice, and if possible to discuss them from both religious and social perspectives.

2: Qur’an is clear as well as vague. It could be understood by the simple Bedouins, as well as the scientific mind down the centuries. Does this underline its inherent flexibility? If the answer is in affirmative, what happened to the flexibility?

3: Are all Qur’anic injunctions for all times? Say, slavery or polygamy?

4: Are Muslims the ‘final’ of the chosen people?

5: Can a person be a good being and not a Muslim?

Most major religions can be classified in a variety of ways. One such understanding comes from the culture and society in which they originated. Most middle eastern religions originated in the tribal societies. These societies are usually small and the power lied with usually one individual, the tribal chief. These were very authoritarian and paternalistic societies. The moral and social ethic were simple and straight forward. These were the societies of “ones”. There were one of everything, one tribal chief, one shrine, one market place, one oasis, one main street, one court, one judge and so on. It is then understandable that one God concept would be the logical spiritual transcendent authority. Due to the rigidity of the society, the God would also be very authoritarian and powerful who would demand strict obedience and submission. This concept of God would be so scary that His fear would sweat children palms and wet their pants for the fear of committing a sin even of childish nature. There would not be any margin of flexibility in the dogma and the rituals. Next category is city states, case in point; Greeks. In cities, power is distributed out of necessity. There would be a separate mayor, tax collector, religious leader, sanitation head, police chief etc., etc. Moreover, there will be several markets, streets, communities and so on. Such social structures would lead to religions with many gods, the Polytheism. There would be a complex relationship among as much as 1000+ gods. All these deities could be considered a manifestation of the lead deity as all official would report to the city mayor or head of the city state. These gods are less scary and demanding as compared to the tribal gods because people are used to moving from one department to another without fearing retribution from the previous boss. The third category is agrarian societies. The hallmark of the agrarian societies is large populations. Due to the settled life, food storage and developing immunity to many crops-born and domesticated animal-born diseases, the population increases very rapidly and in few hundred years, as in the case of India and China, amounts to many fold increase than the comparative tribal and pastoral societies. In such circumstances, it would have been difficult for any particular seer to effectively communicate most of the people. As the message would move from one segment of the population to another, it would start blending with the local beliefs and traditions. In the end, there would be only some very abstract beliefs on the top with very lose dogma and ritual structures at the practice level, much more in accordance with the local conditions. An example is Hinduism which does not have one particular Prophet for all to follow. With such diverse conditions of origins, it is difficult to have a universal dogma and even more difficult to have universal rituals agreeable to all humanity.

There has been a continuous trend toward urbanization. It is quite possible to have most of humanity living in the cities in few hundred years. Such conditions might lead to some kind of transformation of existing religions where they may overlap one another. There is already a common philosophy developing in most major cities, called Materialism. So far it is mostly ritualistic in nature. But with time this may develop certain abstract thoughts, e.g., based on love, thinking (knowledge) and peace. There have already been several religious group, much more popular in the major cities than the rural areas, namely Unitarian Universalist Churches, Zen Buddhism and many new age group with a mixture of eastern and western thoughts.

Quran provided a complete and perfect way of living to the Bedouin society. They were familiar with the stories of the Jewish Prophets; they could understand the terminology, Arabic language and the description of common use items like dates, olives, camels and sheep etc. However, it required new explanation when it moved out of those societies and many scholars did that for the people who have never seen dates or olives; people who lived under different set of conditions. Now the Muslim population is very large and diverse and divided into various sects and different cultures; it will not be possible for most of them to agree to any one explanation. For this reason, I supported the idea of taking Quran to the level of heart; loving it without expecting answers to day-to-day modern life. Love transcends all expectations. A true love does not demand anything from the beloved, not even the union. It is not to say that Quran does not have relevent moral or ethical rules, it is rather necessitated by the conditions to read it for spiritual purposes only. The terminology of the level of the heart and the level of the mind is merely symbolic; in reality all actions, except reflex actions are controlled by the brain. What I really mean to say is that Quran should be deeply loved without pondering over the explanation of its contents. It could then be said that we love Quran as much as Bedouins once did. A love for Quran is also personal and subjective whereas the affairs of the state are collective. This would effectively separate the state and religion.

It is possible to believe in the creation theory or that the earth is the center of the universe and still have a happy productive life. It is also possible to believe in the jinn power and yet perform good work in the areas of hydrocarbons or solar energy. The life of a farmer would not change whether he believes in earth being the center or not. Why then we expect most people to believe the current understandings of science? This question was once asked by a student of famous mythology teacher, Joseph Campbell and his answer was, “ dogs are perfectly happy with the conditions of being fed by their owners and chained around their necks---their life has not been changed for thousand of years-----but then it is dogs life. You have a choice”. It is the property of human mind to inquire about the unknown. An inquiry does not have to have a beneficial motive.

In one of the recent post, sac put it very bluntly by saying ,”some Muslims feel that Islam has failed them”. He does have a point, though he could have said it differently, something like, “many Muslims are disappointed because Islam has not met their expectations”. This is more of a case of the level of expectations. Since childhood we have been repeatedly told of Islam as the absolute truth, the best, the final literal words of God, delivered to the Chosen people from the line of Abraham. It is this superiority complex which build irrational expectations leading to disappointment when expectations are not fulfilled. A typical mullah’s answer would be to not ask what Islam can do for you but what you can do for Islam and you will be properly rewarded in the afterlife. This is similar to what conservative black preachers used to tell the slaves that God has chosen you to serve your masters; perform your obligations dutifully and you will be properly rewarded in afterlife. Best solution to not be disappointed is the lowering of expectation. It will also lower the level of desire to sacrifice for religion. That is moderation----the middle way.

We must keep looking for improving our understanding by developing alternate discourse in this area also. We must think intelligently and be flexible to adopt the changes taking place in the fast moving world. A mere changing of ba ba black sheep with “Rab ka shukr ada kar bhai----jis naiN hamari gaye bhulai” will not do the job.

temporal, I have tried to respond to some of the question you raised. My this and the previous posts are really an attempt to come to terms with modern realities of life and the desire to be able to coexist peacefully with other Muslims as well as non-Muslims.

You are right. I have been travelling a lot these days, and I am beginning to feel a little dreary and tired. However, if I offended you with my reaction to your story, I apologize.

Will try and give it some more readings before I write again.

afrasiyab #161:

Welcome back. Haven’t heard from you in quite some time.

With all this travelling you must be very exhausted. Will simply ignore all your comments and ask you to revist the story.

rgds

t

SR #159:

Welcome back.


Money or fame don’t interest me enough. I may co-author if you agree to manage and invest my share into a temporal trust. This trust would be based somewhere in Oman or Southern Iran. And would provide tents, clothing, food and medicine for the relief of sub continental cities that are exposed to nuclear devastation. And to offer logistics, liaison and volunteer support to other global relief agencies.
(My natural optimism these days is being dampened by unusually pessimistic tides.) AND agree to be in the limelight, do the talk show circuit and plug away the book.

And now descending to mother earth .....Shaikh Ahmed Sirhindi (d 1624) was the original Mujaddid Alif Saani: Renewer or Reviver of the second millennium. Even taking the liberty, Doyem Saani was wrong. I Should have named him Mujaddid Alif Soyem.

As for the 72 minutes --- an informed friend described it thus: the planes in 2020 will be capable of flying at 3 to 5 mach (1 mach is the speed of sound in one hour); these planes would be carrying multiple air to air warheads capable of launching attacks at multiple targets upto 500-800 miles away; the pilot can be hundreds of miles away when launching these missiles. He could effectively record their ‘kills’ and return in 72 minutes.

As for the American Ambassador waking up President Omar, I would have do re think the whole scenario. In addition to those 72 minutes, I would have to tie it in with Abdullah’s Montreal time. Midnight Montreal is 8 am Riyadh. Ideally, Uri should return back to base as dawn is breaking out. That would be 5- 5.30am. this will push back the Ambassador’s calls to around 4-- 4.30 am. That would be 8- 8.30pm in Montreal, hardly the time young men and women return home after dinner.

Pleasure, as always. Pls send me your impressions of the unholy lands.

regards

t

Wow,

I did not see this one comming from you at all.

With making every one of your character a post 6 billionth baby are you setting this in the next 25 years or so, or is there another meaning to it.

Here is what I think.

It is hard to be a Muslim and male (I am sure it is harder to be a female but in view of the fact that men are generally expected to defend their own more vehemently while Muslim females get a little more sympathy comming there way, not totally unjustified ofcoarse, I must say, I will stick with Muslim and Male for this arguement) these days, in the West. So temporal, are you simply `Giving up.` I did not think that you were the kind to do that. I have not had a chance to read the replies to this but I am sure there must have been replies with Muslims predicting the third world war. I think temporal wants an end to the ongoing misery that the Islamic Identity has become for Muslims. He wants to speed up the journey for the most logical of all ends. An all out war between Islam and everybody else. But what`s new in that! Jews and Christians who wrote the Bible envisioned the Armaggeddon(sp?). This is the oldest story in the world. Come on temporal, I know you can do better than repeating these old stories.

SameerJB,

Just read your #133. Made a hard copy. I have the feeling I will read it many times, going back to it like a bedouin to an oasis.

Thank you. That was a spontaneous act of love.

regards,

PM

Temporal:

Yes, I`ve finally returned from the (un)holy lands (re: your message # 76 to Zeemax). I`ve read your piece and its replies (all 158 of them) with much pleasure and amusement. Although now (as of last week) the discussion has been hijacked away from the fictional piece itself and on to matters of theosophy and ritualism, I want to focus on your work of fiction only.

First of all, I think it is merely an incomplete `outline` of a more detailed manuscript, to be submitted to a publisher for the eventual production of an action-packed thriller, a five hundred page long block-buster with all the elements of intrigue, politics, religion, sex, philosophy, suspense, action and violence. It`ll sell a million copies and make the New York Times best seller list for months on end. I hope you will invite me to be a co-author so that I may share in the unending stream of royalties that will inevitably follow.

Now for some specifics. We`ll have to work on many of the details or the critics will have us for lunch and making it to the best-seller list will remain a dream. Following are a few instances.

First, I`m surprised that none of the language hawks have pointed out that `Doyem` and `Sani` both mean `the second`. So your mujadid is styled `Second, second`? That`s a bit redundant, wouldn`t you say?

Second, as he was landing his plane, you specifically say that Major Uri took off ``72 minutes earlier``. That is 36 minutes each way. I`ve done some rudimentary math and it simply does not work out. The distance between Tel Aviv and Mecca (Medina is almost on the way so we won`t even bring up the slight course diversion necessary), as a crow flies, is about 750 nautical miles. Not counting the slower speeds required at take off and landing times, nor the optimum operational speed during targeting and weapons discharge, it would be necessary for Major Uri to fly at well over supersonic speed for the entire 1500 mile journey. There is only one aircraft in the world I am aware of (the B2 bomber) that has this capability without a mid-air fueling requirement. Now perhaps you mean to imply that by the year 2020 the Israel Air Force will have such a plane, I don`t know. However, this is an issue we`ll need to address. The techno stuff much be up to muster or the critics will never forgive us.

Not only this, but you also mention that the US president had been trying to reach his Saudi opposite number for a ``couple of hours``. How does that fit in with the ``72 minutes``?

The central theme will work but much needs to be fine tuned by way of detail. I don`t quite like the idea of CARS. Yes, Gore Vidal, as long ago as the early 1980s, did suggest an eventual cooperation of the US and the (then) USSR, in their common struggle against a possible marriage between the two Asian giants: China and Japan. Yet, there is little to suggest today that the idea of CARS will help us with getting on the NY Times best seller list (after all one does need to cater to the biases and sensitivities of the book purchasing public).

Do I get the job of co-author?

Expectantly yours,

...SR