What are they Teaching in Pakistani Schools Today?

Madressah are the only institution in Pakistan, which are giving a high class education in Pakistan free of cost.

All the other institutions are money minting machine and if money is not minted our high class intelligentia does not burn its hand in it.

The reason I am saying high class is because a lot of doctors, engineers, and highly educated people are getting enrolled in Maddressah and before long it will bear its fruit, when intelligence will not be the domain of psedo-intellectuals, but real intellectuals.

That should be a good news for our secular friends to further their killings in Kashmir.

The number of Madaris (Islamic religious schools) in Pakistan has shot up from a mere 868 in 1975 to over 8000 now.

A large number of religious schools in Pakistan are involved in encouraging militancy by sending across their students to Afghanistan for training in warfare, local media reported today.

As many as 126 `Madaris` (religious schools) have been identified by intelligence agencies for sending their students to Afghanistan for training in warfare, `The News` said today quoting a report of Society for Promotion of the Rights of Child (SPARC).

The federal government has reportedly decided to clamp down on these Madaris to stop spread of sectarianism and religious fundamentalism, the paper said.

The SPARC report claims that recently steps have been taken to eradicate those Madaris which have been found to be involved in militant activities and efforts are on to nab hardened criminals being harboured by them.

Not so fast: Mr Farangi Kush

Generally it is a great topic to exchange opinions and read about the different solutions proposed by various people. But it was pretty disappointing to read the solutions given by Mr farangi for following reasons:

1. An attempt is made is to give the religious tinge to education problems (age old phenomenon). Mr farangi`s defines the word yet fails to support it.

2. The main issue is not about the winning or losing. Certainly there is no place for self-rightous attitude. Content is more important than packaging. Mr farangi seem to be totally fixated on winning. As long as we live in this world we have to interact with other systems. Anything which is different from us is not inherently bad but just different. If we can improve by using their certain good techniques, please don`t equate it with cardinal sins.

3. It is certainly not true that ``desi school attendies get enrolled at higher level``. It can be a exception but not a rule. Secondly, jumping a grade doesn`t mean that we have a great system in general.

4. The proposed distinction between sceintist and educators is also very primitive. Guidence is not anybody`s domain and certainly not a class privilage. Maulana and politican can definitely guide in their respective fields but can`t be trusted to give a course on nuclear physics or computers. Everybody can contribute to amend this diseased and infested education system as long as focus is not on demonstrating superiority and spreading hatred.

5. Again, in the last whole portion reply Mr farangi desperately tried to potray the self-rightous attitude. It is a known fact that not every muslim child is a genius nor they are world renowned over-achievers.

I must congradulate Dr.Hoodbhoy for starting such an interesting discussion.

km

DYNAMITE IN THE MOUTH OF BUDDHA`S STATUE

To destroy the ancient Hindu and Buddhist culture of Afghanistan.

Ahmed Rashid, Book: TALIBAN

A major preoccupation of the current Afghan rulers, for instance, has been to determine the most religiously correct punishment for adultery (killing the evildoers by bulldozing a wall over them was agreed upon).

Then they put dynamite in the mouth of a Buddha`s statue and blew it up.

As far as period of ChandarGupt and Ashoka are concerned, I remember I have read in my history books, that was the time of Z.A.Bhutto.

As Feroz K quoted or posted in his article that Pakistan is a place where multiple trends and politics related to that are trying to drag Pakistan in its own direction. And the reason is that although Pakistan was created in the concept of a nation state, it never went in the direction of Nationalism.

If you are from Pakistan you know what I mean.

This has basically created the Pakistan we are living in.

On the one hand our ruling elite had their own interests, which was in direct contradiction to the interest of common man.

The common man and poor man basically seeked refuge in alternative parties, like Mohajir Qaumi Movement, Jamat-e-Islami, Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, TNFJ etc which not only utilized the aspirations of common man but gave them a direction distinct from the feudal-cum-Industrialist alliance.

What is the solution?

I think the agenda of Pervez Musharraf (only agenda) is the correct way to approach the problem. Because the only way out of this mess is economic progress which is the only way to dilute the Klashinkov Culture in all its form.

As far as your reference to Dr. Hoodbhoy is concerned. I have great respect for him as a person and he is a dedicated person. But his political views, I donot necessarily condone, because they are out of touch with reality.

If anybody left a legacy for the direction, it is Z.A.Bhutto.

Economic revival. Realization of Identification of peoples aspiration with Islam. i.e

Islam is our religion.

Democracy is our politics. and.

Socialism is our economics. (you can change it with economic prosperity of country should be related to prosperity of its people)

And root of power is people.

It was Bhutto who has to give way to religious right, because of their dominant influence.

But he was right. Without realizing this you cannot achieve your objective of prosperous Pakistan. And the leftist style politics never has appealed to masses.

Politics is the name of achieving the objectives, not propagating one`s belief.

krashid:

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/news3a.htm

``To elaborate the point I gave examples from our textbooks, about how history has been distorted and how things have worsened over the years. I recalled how my senior colleagues tell me that in the late fifties, full ten years after independence, some of their examination papers were set in India, their thesis teachers used to come from India, how Radio Pakistan could air Indian film songs until the early sixties, how Indian films were shown in Pakistani cinema houses, how we had the privilege of learning history in an impartial manner, with details on the reigns of early Hindu period of Ashoka and Chandargupt Moriya, etc. But then we closed the door on us and insulated ourselves in order to conform everything, including history, to our own mental constructions. I tried to show that much of what is taught to students nowadays is anything but truth.



``The students are fed on falsity and are taught to hate, I said. Even the most recent history is blatantly distorted. For this I cited some textbooks lessons on the 1965 war, which state that India started the war and attacked Pakistan in the dark of the night. That Pakistan valiantly fought back, winning large enemy territories. India desperately sought international help in stopping the war and Pakistan graciously returned the captured territories. All this against the statements of former PAF chiefs, Nur Khan and Asghar Khan. Linking the state of collective paranoia with nuclear weapons, I quoted a serving Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee telling my friend Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy some years ago that he would not mind if Indians in retaliation to a Pakistani use of nuclear weapon destroyed all the Pakistani cities and killed millions, as long as Pakistan could harm India in some manner.



``What happened in response to this talk was interesting. A student stood up and berated me for negating the ideology of Pakistan and the concept of jehad (I had neither spoken of the ideology of Pakistan nor of jehad). He insisted that Pakistanis must destroy India even if it meant complete annihilation of Pakistan. What struck me most was the loud applause his statement drew from other students. The student then walked out in protest against my subversive talk. The rest of the students remained seated for another half-hour`s session. The discussion was lively with arguments both for and against my contention. I realised later while talking to a student of mine that the younger people, particularly those who have passed through the mainstream educational system where the state indoctrination is so prevalent, are so heavily conditioned by the textbooks that truth comes to them as an unpleasant shock. This may explain the ovation the student got after my talk. It also expalins why jehad has such a wide approval in society.

Professor Nayyar, The Friday Times.

``To elaborate the point I gave examples from our textbooks, about how history has been distorted and how things have worsened over the years. I recalled how my senior colleagues tell me that in the late fifties, full ten years after independence, some of their examination papers were set in India, their thesis teachers used to come from India, how Radio Pakistan could air Indian film songs until the early sixties, how Indian films were shown in Pakistani cinema houses, how we had the privilege of learning history in an impartial manner, with details on the reigns of early Hindu period of Ashoka and Chandargupt Moriya, etc. But then we closed the door on us and insulated ourselves in order to conform everything, including history, to our own mental constructions. I tried to show that much of what is taught to students nowadays is anything but truth.



``The students are fed on falsity and are taught to hate, I said. Even the most recent history is blatantly distorted. For this I cited some textbooks lessons on the 1965 war, which state that India started the war and attacked Pakistan in the dark of the night. That Pakistan valiantly fought back, winning large enemy territories. India desperately sought international help in stopping the war and Pakistan graciously returned the captured territories. All this against the statements of former PAF chiefs, Nur Khan and Asghar Khan. Linking the state of collective paranoia with nuclear weapons, I quoted a serving Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee telling my friend Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy some years ago that he would not mind if Indians in retaliation to a Pakistani use of nuclear weapon destroyed all the Pakistani cities and killed millions, as long as Pakistan could harm India in some manner.

Washington Times http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/commentary-200051016720.htm

Donald Devine

The real threats to American interests are not how well democracy spreads around the world but Islamic fundamentalism and, potentially, China. In fact, realistic analysis suggests the more democracy there is in an Islamic nation, the more it opposes the U.S. and its allies like Israel. Likewise, it is not nuclear ``proliferation`` that is the problem but possession by unstable regimes like North Korea or fundamentalist ones like Iran and Afghanistan, or even, someday, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

How can this possible threat be contained without Russia and India? It is insane to tongue-lash these essentially inward-looking nations, which do have some interest in protecting their borders from madmen.

This is not anti-Islam. The Islamic Supreme Council of America organized a recent conference where the prime concern of the attending Muslims from around the world was the danger from Islamic fundamentalism.

While it can be avoided, China does has the potential to threaten world peace. But the present U.S. alliance system relying upon Japan and Taiwan is inadequate. Neither, nor the two together, are strong enough to balance an aggressive China, even allied with U.S. forces. In a Sino-American war, the two are likely to stay neutral if China allows them to. Only Russia and India are located strategically and are big enough to balance China. What was the reaction of national greatness` John McCain when President Clinton recently wooed India? He said the trip was too ``extensive,`` an excuse for ``photo ops.`` Mr. Clinton was right to go and should do more.

Why you are mohajir!

It is purely a religious thing.

As far as semi educated Pakistanis.

It is very obvious from Indian response that bias is called education in India.

Desis in Silicon Valley

FORTUNE magazine has published a series of articles on success of Desis in Silicon Valley. Worth reading.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/2000/05/15/ind2.html

India is, and always has been, regarded as the `traditional enemy` to the extent that the few Pakistanis who are educated under the official curriculum have, by the time they have completed Class V, been brainwashed as to the `evil designs` harboured by India against Pakistan and they have been tutored as to the `differences between Muslims and Hindus` (Hindus only - Hottentots, atheists, Christians and even Jews are of no relevance).

What they will not be taught unless there is an elimination of the official curriculum enforced for decades on the lamentably tutored semi-educated, encouraged to pass exams by fraudulent means as they otherwise would fail, is the true standing of the `traditional enemy` in the world of the 21st century.

Next time you give an UNBIASED history.

Please name your next missile on person who killed most militants in Kashmir.

That will be an anti Ghauri.

Everyone knows that Shahbuddin Ghauri was an invader of India. He killed millions of people( Both Hindus and Muslims), plundered

India, destroyed temples and mosques. Yet when India named it surface to earth missile `Prithvi` (Prithvi means `Earth` in Hindi) , Pakistani politician tried to name their missile `Ghauri` in

honor of the Muslim invader who defeated the noble Hindu king Prithviraj Chauhan. We have lost sight of the fact that not all of the `great Muslim heroes` were actually so. Tomorrow we would

see barbarous Chengez Khan turned into a Muslim super hero.

Most of the Muslim rulers we consider ``heroes`` behaved abominably by ordering the slaughter of an embassy numbering some three hundred

- most of them Muslims and also Hindus.

This is not only outright ignorance, but an ignorance born out of fifty years of misconstrued history. Successive governments and bureaucrats with vested interests unaware of the fact that history has no religion, but that all religions have a history have attempted to convert the history of the Indian subcontinent to Islam.

Consequently, for most Muslims in Pakistan (and perhaps even in India) any personage with an Arabic or Persian name is a supposed

Islamic hero. For most ignorant folks it does not matter how disreputable that person may have been -- only the name suffices.

The History taught in Pakistan is so distorted. All Indians and Hindus are treated as villians and Muslims heroes. Pakistan does not have any good role model, so it tries to create role

Models of any Muslim. What has this produced, an entire generation of ignorant Pakistanis who are unaware of real history, but have one thing in common ie. ``Indians and Hindus are our enemies``.

Yes Mohajir#

It can only happen in Pakistan.

It is amply reflected in attitudes of Pakistanis on this board.

Pakistani girl students face up to culture police

LAHORE, MAY 1: A quiet revolution is unfolding on a Lahore campus. The hold of Jamat-e-Islami, the fundamentalist Islamic group, has been challenged in Punjab University, Lahore.

The challenge has come from the women students, trying to unshackle themselves from the ``oppressive Talibanisation`` attempts of Jamat-e-Islami followers.

The fundamentalist control of the campus was total a few months ago, until the girls decided to fight back. In the vast new campus of Punjab University, for instance, the women students were not allowed to make phone calls from any of the 30-odd PCOs. ``It is the order of the Jamat-e-Islami,`` explains one of the PCO owners. ``If we allow girls to make calls, they have threatened to vandalise our shops,`` he adds. This is just one of the Jamat-e-Islami diktats that the girls are fighting.

The girls found their voice three months ago when a boy student was brutally beaten by the Jamat followers.``One of the girls had a problem with a Mathematics question and had sought help from one of her classmates, who happened to be of the opposite sex. The Jamat student leaders saw the boy talking to her and started beating him up. There were a few other girls also who witnessed it and protested. The explanation offered by the Jamat students was that the boy was misbehaving with the girl, which was not true,`` explains Sabiha, a first-year Psychology student.

That incident marked the beginning of the girls` movement against the Jamat-e-Islami enforcers. In a spontaneous outburst against the Jamat-e-Islami fundamentalists, the girls took out a procession, shouting anti-Jamat slogans. ``We discarded our fear that day,`` says Rukhsana, an MSc (Mathematics) student.

But the movement is still in its nascent stage. Majority of the girls still keep their heads covered and hair tied. ``There was a time when not even a single girl dared to keep her head uncovered or her hair loose. The Jamat students literally used to go around carrying scissors, threatening to cut the hair of any girl who hadn`t plaited it. But now you can see all that is changing,`` says Qudsia, another MSc student, pointing towards a group of girls sporting trendy hairstyles.

The girls are no more scared by the sight of Jamat-e-Islami student leaders, wearing the traditional salwar-Kurta and sporting beards. ``Till recently, the girls used to scurry inside classrooms, seeing the Jamat guys approaching,`` says Amara, who stands her ground when three Jamat-e-Islami students on a motorbike, come closer. They stop and ask the group of girls not to talk to the reporter from India.

``All journalists need permission from our leader Hamid,`` one of them growls. ``Nobody needs permission from you people,`` says a girl bravely. ``Please, go,`` she tells them. Surprised by the girl`s unexpected ferocity, the Jamat youth retreat but hang around at a distance.

``The power of Jamat-e-Islami is slowly but surely eroding in the University. Our vice Chancellor Lt General Harshad Mahmood has come down heavily on them. But it will take some time before they are completely sidelined,`` says Sumaira.

The girls still feel inhibited to wear jeans on the campus. ``I wear them sometimes and so do a few others. But we are yet only a handful. Though I felt slightly uncomfortable initially, with people staring, it is okay now. Even the stares have become less frequent. This is the only way that people will get accustomed to the change. Somebody has to bell the cat,`` says Amara with a grin.

RSaxena #141: I find your use of the phrase ``Pakistani moderates`` quite interesting. I suppose it is a step forward compared to thinking in terms of ``Pakistani enemies``. Third step, I suppose, would be: ``Pakistani posters`` on Chowk. And fourth would be ``fellow posters`` on Chowk, with attacks/support limited to the posts themselves, not to the individuals. My point is: please dont label Pakistanis on Chowk as ``moderates`` or ``fanatics``. Just stick to the posts themselves, and assume the posters are all perfectly fine and reasonable folks (why assume otherwise?).