What are they Teaching in Pakistani Schools Today?

Umairr #75 So we agree on the importance of English. The distinction between a ``first-language`` and a ``second-language`` is I think not so important. If, as people increasingly agree, a sound knowledge of English is a definite plus in the global job market, then our schools should aim to produce high school graduates who are fully proficient in English. This does not preclude their being fully proficient in other langauges (Panjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Urdu or even non-Pakistani languages if they are so inclined).

Fairdinkum: Agreed, one can know a dozen languages, but that is no good if one cannot speak honestly or sensibly in any one of them.

Rdisken(?)#81 : Interesting that the introduction of Tamil in India caused non-Tamil speakers to raise a fuss. Same experience with Urdu in Pakistan: Attempts to introduce Urdu as a national language back in 1950`s laid the seeds of mistrust that plagued East-West Pakistan relations ever since. Same thing happended in West Pakistan in the early 1960`s I think when attempts to make Urdu the medium of instruction caused problems in NWFP, Panjab, Sindh etc.

In Pakistan, a beardless man doesn`t fit in

http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/04/21/fp1s4-csm.shtml

Re: tahmed321 #74 and Umairr #75

Well, one of Pakistan’s ex foreign ministers could speak five or six foreign languages. However, he could not speak the language of truth. In my view, it is more important that we shift the focus of our education from darkness to enlightenment…. Teaching kids to become better human beings, no matter what the medium of instruction may be, is more important an issue…. And that’s what we should be discussing here.

Do you think that renaissance, the industrial revolution, and the victory of rational thought over dogma were solely due to the fact that Europeans taught their kids in their local languages?

How many of Islamic countries use their local language as medium of instructions in their schools? I think a lot of them do…So, why haven’t they joined the “first world” yet?

I am sorry Umairr, but yours is a pretty linear argument.

Bahmed,

......the indefatigable and relentless scholar, says, “I think, romanticized histories of the ruling class need to be supplanted by authentic and reasonably constructed (and critically interpreted) histories of the interplay of various social classes and institutions.”.....Wow!......and, if you will excuse me for saying it, “monkeys will fly out of Madonna’s derriere and peace will rule the planet.”

Whether we like it or not, Pakistan and India are at war – hot, cold or lukewarm. When two nations are at war truth, objectivity, handholding and other such niceties should be, and always are, discarded in favor of effective propaganda and the strategic effort to dehumanize the enemy. History and scholarship is simply another instrument of war - everyone does it, and it has to be done well. During WW-II the Allies rewrote history as did the Germans and the Japanese; the Vietnamese were painted as gooks, “yellow hordes” and savages during the Vietnam War; the hapless Argentineans were portrayed as buffoons during the Malvinas conflict; most American students are surprised to hear that California had once belonged to Mexico and that American troops had once marched into Plaza Garibaldi in Mexico City. Even today, most Americans believe that the Spanish–American war started because those despicable Spaniards blew up USS Maine in Havana. Sure, now that the conflicts are over, there are attempts to re-rewrite historical “facts” in the name of truth, justice and academic purity.......So what? ...... All this might cause indigestion and heartburn amongst scholars, historians and other time-wasters who sit around and pontificate on this and that while they watch the grass grow, but it has little or no impact on the common man....all the common man needs to learn is Reading, Riting and Rithmetic.......History, Basket-Weaving, Pottery and Anthropology along with Divinity, Theosophy and Islamiyat are optional - Useless electives for B students!

In the horribly undeveloped societies in Pakistan and India, where most people still think and act like primitive tribesmen as they struggle out of their mud-huts and tents, it really doesn’t matter what is discussed in the drawing rooms of Islamabad and Delhi and the hallways of Princeton and Harvard. All that the common man, pan-walla and rickshaw driver, needs to know is why he should hate those who live on the wrong side of the border ......He needs justification for his miserable existence and slogans to stoke the fire that gives him, like England’s football fans, the reason to live.

...... this might be a little tongue in cheek but I sincerely believe that, under the present circumstances, historical truth is the least of our problems. I do deplore the fact that some of the attempts at propaganda are amateurish, silly and inconsistent and should be better organized......historical facts are a dime a dozen and don’t amount to a hill of dal – history is invariably re-written by the victor. So let’s focus on winning and then we will worry about truth and academic honesty, global warming and tre-hugging.

Re the various posts on the language of instruction.

Last summer, quite out of the blue, the local state government in Tamil Nadu tried to foist Tamil as the language of instruction on all students upto 5th grade exept those schools under the Anglo-Indian/ICSE and CBSE/central curriculae.

Fortunately, just a couple of days ago, a full bech of the state high court threw out the order as unconstitutional, unfair to linguistic minorities and the wishes of all parents, and improper, done without following due process and taking into account the viewpoints of educators.

While the half-baked idiots in power and bureaucracy can foist language education on the masses [wonder where their own kids study?--Did Laloo`s daughter complete her medicine in Bhojpuri?], they seem to ignore the realities and desires of the majority [and the marketplace]. Even the poorest garbageman does not want his children to repeat after him and despite their ignorance of English, see the benefits of English education. While some in the so-called intellegentsia see it as an unnecessary aping of the West, where will a language education get you?

Will a BA schooled entirely in Tamil or Telugu or Urdu [as opposed to English-medium] stand a better chance of success in today`s economy. Like it or not, the global economic trends are going to drive local trends, and an English-based education gives one a better chance of success, assimilation, etc. One doesn`t have to give up his or her linguistic identity, but why deny oneself a better chance of success. So, who will hire one with a language education? Chances are, no one but the local governments and their various state entities. But given the privitization trend, it`s only a matter of time before these jobs dry up.

Education should provide a level playing field and more importantly, a good education should level the playing field of opportunity. It`s a pity that the language romanticists and the dumb-s__t politicians and bureaucrats do not recognize this.

Our driver back home, while literate in Tamil has insisted his two daughters go to an English medium school. Yes, the kids do struggle as parents at home are not capable of helping them, but my folks help these kids out with lessons, etc., and pay for some tuitions for these kids, but in the long run, these girls have a better chance of doing well.

The other issue that is of critical importance and worth discussing is the role of reservations for various minorities. It`s unfortunately been used as an election weapon in India--with reservations not only being used for college education, but for jobs as well, leading to the overall lowering of standards. While affirmative action in principle is a wonderful thing, it has become as entrenched as any other political patronage tool.

I wonder how reservations, if any, impact education and society in Pakistan. We know that in the US at least, reservations/affirmative action is not too popular an item.

To those who prefer Urdu over English as medium of instruction, consider this

L.C.M. is translated to ``zouzaaf-e-aql`` in ``riyaazi`` textbooks (correct Arabic pronunciation would be Dhou Al-Dhaaf Al-Aql?).

Spare the kids

Hameed # 57,

You could be the only good `thing` to come out of chowk. I look forward to your posts, nurture the gift.

regards

jay.

The discussion of English vs local language should be seen in its context.

In our population or even in advanced countries, how many people enroll, how many make it all the way to basic education.i.e high school or equivalent and how many pursue further studies.

Majority of students do their high school at most. A very small percentage makes it to higher education and professional education.

If this thing is kept in mind, then we can see that role of primary education should be to produce rational and thinking independent being, who can go along with society.

Higher education should have a different priority i.e providing education of highest level. (Since in our stage of development of country it cannot be oriented practically, so it should be oriented theoretically for now).

Now if we start giving education to a child in town or village as an example and this example can be applied to city also, regarding Ba Ba Black sheep or subway or Ninja turtle, he will be confused because he is more oriented to other things. Suppose we replace Ba Ba Black sheep with ``Dumba for Sacrifice`` and subway with minibus, and Ninja turtle with Luddhar and start teaching in English language, what purpose we are serving. Basically we will be replacing our language of communication with English language. Can we foresee that this policy will result in change of our communication language in near or far future for better.

If that is possible. It is very doubtful.

In Paksitan, the Newspaper which is a reflection of people`s understanding is mostly read in Urdu and Urdu Newspapers and for that matter Sindhi press has taken a pivotal role in educating masses politically. While English press although more objective has almost no impact.

In this regards the example of Iran will be very valid. Its education even in Medical and Engineering is in Persian (with off course English as a second language).

Iran has made great strides in Education in last three decades. This country which was almost totally dependent on foreigners for its professional needs, now hardly needs any foreigner.

Also in regards to Mullahism and Jehadist.

This phenomenon, cannot be eliminated from any Islamic country, unless masses are involved in economic activity. Also what alternative is available to them. If not Maddressah, then no education. All our Intelligent people are not able to provide education to them because it does not make money for them.

Travelling through different parts of Pakistan or slums in Karachi, makes one realize that poverty and illiteracy and crime go together.

It is not only education but economic activity also which is important.

Without having a clear objective regarding education, how can we make policies.

P.S: A teacher is killed by students with clubs and knife during BA Examination when he prevented them from cheating and sent the name of students to Board who were cheating.(From today`s Jang Newspaper)

In response to Amit (Reply # 60)

Dear Amit:

You have touched upon a very important issue. Pakistanis and Indians need to address this issue frankly and conscientiously: What kind of history have we been teaching to our children? How biased are our versions of the same? What are we going to achieve if our perspectives are essentially biased (one-sided; prejudiced)? Is it appropriate to be reckless, unfair, and unwise in the construction of our/their history? What do we need to do to avoid rectify the situation? Romanticizing the imagined, perceived, or real glory of the past rulers is a part of an elitist project that is often imitated uncritically in many many societies, including India and Pakistan. Shouldn’t we question, for example, why in India Alexander is generally viewed as “Alexander the Great” and Mahmood Ghaznavi as a “looter”? Perhaps both Alexander and Ghaznavi were great, or both were looters, or both were great and looters. One way to deal with such cases/situations is to see them critically, avoiding all forms of romanticism, and realizing the level of information available as well as the nature of their contexts. I think, romanticized histories of the ruling class need to be supplanted by authentic and reasonably constructed (and critically interpreted) histories of the interplay of various social classes and institutions.

I deplore the fact that both India and Pakistan are currently engaged in a kind of history construction (in practice and in writing) that is both self- and mutually-destructive. We are spending a lot of our much needed resources on numerous so-called security and defense measures. Such practices historically contribute toward the constitution of a discourse that tends to widen the gap between us and them. A noteworthy example of this process is the naming of Pakistani missiles after Ghauri and Ghaznavi. This unwise approach would not only lead to further hatred between the people of both countries but may lead to an unnecessarily distorted reconstruction of the history of Muslims in India. The question is who should we blame as Pakistanis or Indians. I suggest, we need to trace our conscience first.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. On the whole, scholarship in humanities and social sciences is far better developed in India than in Pakistan. As a result, you may find more examples of poorly written history books in Pakistan.

tahmad321: ``The fact that you arrived at a conclusion on by looking towards the ``first world countries`` rather than by using your own ability to think rationally explains what is fundamentally wrong with most Pakistani educational institutions: the student`s confidence in his/her own ability to think rationally is suppressed, and replaced by dependence on rote learning on what others``

I think you are paying more attention to the examples I gave then then the point I was trying to make. Examples are used to strengthen arguments, they should not be considered the primary argument. I did not only mention first world countries. I mentioned a complete spectrum of countries; first world to the third world, including countries that have recently moved out of the third world. I am surprised you only picked up on the first world countries.

``So, even as you talk about teaching in local languages in what you think is a nationalist view, you are simply imitating the first world and did not even think of relying upon your own ability to think rationally.``

The point I was trying to make is exactly the opposite of what you have suggested. ``Simply imitating first world countries`` is what Pakistan has been doing for a long time by using a foreign tongue to educate its population. I think it is about time we did start relying on our, ``own ability to think rationally.`` And if this is the secret to success, then I think it is far easier to think rationally in one`s own language than in foregin languages. Logical thinking is not bound to any language.

``Try to think for yourself, free from emotional insecurities, and you may come up with surprising answers that will make you stronger over time. Follow others, and you will find yourself in a ditch while the others have in the meantime gone off in a different direction anyway. E.g., a prominent government study in Japan (the example that local language promoters have provided for years) recently recommended much greater emphasis on English as a way to give Japan a place in the sun in the emerging economy. I read recently that the Malaysians too are now beginning to stress English. The various examples you provide are very misleading as well: most Swedes speak English fluently, as do increasing numbers of other people on the European continent.``

Once again, the whole point I am trying to make is that Pakistan should not follow others without any logical reasons. If USA and England have made progress teaching their kids in english, that does not mean Pakistan will make progress as well. What is the point of copying them for no reason.

All the studies you have mentioned indicate that it is very important to study english. I never said it wasn`t important. That is why I suggested that english should be taught as a compulsory foreign language. Infact, knowing as many foreign languages as possible is always an assett. However, using a foreign language as a primary vehicle to teach the citizens of a country causes far more problems than it solves. Regardless of how much importance the countries you have mentioned give to english, I doubt most of them will ever change their curriculum completely to english. They will only give english more importance as a second language.

``English - the language of the internet and of the overwhelming number of scientific books and professional journals - is becoming a global language that goes well beyond the foggy little islands where it started.``

This is correct. However, english is gaining importance as the global choice of a common, ``second language.`` Hardly any country is replacing its own language, or its own educational curriculum, to an english based one. I have yet to see the use of english language, as the primary language of education, benefit Pakistan as a whole. It only benefits a very very small elitist minority. It creates obstacles for an overwhelming majority. In my opinion, Pakistan should educate in its own language, since that is the easiest for children to pick up. At the same time, Pakistan should stress english as a second language, so that its students have access to the global community. Not the other way around.

I think you have assumed that I wrote this reply in a certain frame of mind. I am not quite sure how you have reached this assumption, since I did not mention it anywhere in my reply. Because of this perhaps you have missed the point I was trying to make. As I stated, I have personally benefited greatly from studying in english medium schools. However, I still believe at a national level, teaching in a foreign tongue creates too many obstacles for a majority of the population.

Umairr #159 writes: ``How many first world countries use a foreign language as their medium of instruction at the primary and high school level. ``

The fact that you arrived at a conclusion on by looking towards the ``first world countries`` rather than by using your own ability to think rationally explains what is fundamentally wrong with most Pakistani educational institutions: the student`s confidence in his/her own ability to think rationally is suppressed, and replaced by dependence on rote learning on what others (others being the Westerners, Japanese, Islamists, post-colonial nationalists, tenth century Arabs, or whoever else you happen to look towards for inspiration) had to say.

So, even as you talk about teaching in local languages in what you think is a nationalist view, you are simply imitating the first world and did not even think of relying upon your own ability to think rationally.

Try to think for yourself, free from emotional insecurities, and you may come up with surprising answers that will make you stronger over time. Follow others, and you will find yourself in a ditch while the others have in the meantime gone off in a different direction anyway. E.g., a prominent government study in Japan (the example that local language promoters have provided for years) recently recommended much greater emphasis on English as a way to give Japan a place in the sun in the emerging economy. I read recently that the Malaysians too are now beginning to stress English. The various examples you provide are very misleading as well: most Swedes speak English fluently, as do increasing numbers of other people on the European continent.

The fact is that when populations mix - as is happening in a grand manner through the internet and migrations nowadays - they have a practical need to communicate and a common language emerges. This is how Urdu evolved, and this why English - the language of the internet and of the overwhelming number of scientific books and professional journals - is becoming a global language that goes well beyond the foggy little islands where it started.

Amit #60

You might be aware that each state has state education board, plus there are about 3(I can remember) Boards at the central level. Each of these boards have different syllabi and textbooks.

So please specify which Board you are referring to in India, that has anti-Muslim bias.

It is not conceivable that Muslim rulers are put in bad light as there are 140 million Muslims in India. Bad rulers and tyrants are mentioned by incidents - if Aurangazeb killed his brothers it is mentioned and so are such deeds by Rajput kings. It is we and our classroom teachers who might form opinions. If you had read that Rana Pratap fought the moghuls valiantly he may become your a hero. A Muslim might decide the opposite since Rana Pratap lost in the end.

Regularly published books, academic discussions, seminars and research on History are regular features in university and academic circles. These are independent efforts and not controlled or approved by the government. Added to this is the completely free Muslim press. In fact I can assure you that the books I read, from the CBSE board (NCERT books) are particularly accurate and are free from bias. I am sure any South Asian can read NCERT books for accurate history without fear of regional or religious bias. India has nothing to loose by projecting history as-was.

I have even read about the 5 tenets of Islam from my NCERT school books. Let`s see if I remember this right (forgive mistakes) -

`` La illah Allah illa mohammed ur rasool allah. ``

Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his only prophet.

Amit - If you are aware of inaccuracies in Indian history books you should probably report it or write to India Today or other magazines. They will be glad to make a story of it ! And we will be better off for the correction.

Vicky

It seems that Pakistan first needs to find out what it wants to be, and where it wants to go in the future. Does it want to progess towrds globalistaion, or does it intend to regress into another Afghanistan type strict muslim state.

The coexistence of the 2 is not possible. If it were so, the supreme court of Pakistan would not have held interest to be anti islamic and banned it.

My personal take on this is that religon inhibits knowledge. Why ? Because when FACTs that contradict ones religon come about, we refuse to believe in them. Being a Hindu, I know my grandfather did not believe that man had actually stepped on the moon ! This despite the fact that we had pictures and video recordings of that historic event. I am sure in Islam too there are instances where new facts are not accepted simply because they are anti-Islamic.

The main weakness of religons is that they are infelxible and hence cannot keep up with the times. I am sure that when interest was prohibited in Islam it was justified. However, in today`s day and age, not getting interest on your investment is absurd.

So all my Paki brothers... decide if you want to have the a spritual utopia or a materialistic one.

AD

Excellent Article. Keep up the good work.

Poor education is the root cause of all the ills in Pakistan. Improved education will generate better results in all the areas. You have rightly indicated that the education process should start at primary level.

Pakistani education should be a moderate mix of modern sciences and religion as well. I think we should be developing broad-minded Muslims who have the ability to read and understand modern sciences as well as Quran. A good Muslim should be able to read and understand commentaries (Tafaseer) of Quran by prominent scholars and should not depend on the Imam of local Masjid.

When I look at the primary education in Pakistan, I see extreme polarization. On one hand there are schools affiliated with western countries teaching modern sciences and trying to create a pro western person. On the other hand I see madarasas teaching their school of thought and not Quran to the students. So the outcome of existing education system of Pakistan is generating two types of masses. One who sees the religion as backward and orthodox while the other sees the modern sciences as the education of satan “shaitan.”

What is needed is a decent blend of modern sciences and Quran in the primary and high school curriculum. I do not think any sect within Islam (deobandi, naqshbanbi, barelvi, wahabi, green turban, blue turban, black turban, brown turban, etc etc) will have any objection on adding Quran in the primary and high school curriculum.

This will manifest two things. First we will be able to generate good Muslims who will have a fair idea about modern sciences and who will be able to read and understand Quran themselves. Secondly, all these bogus sects (a few of them mentioned above) within Islam will vanish automatically or at least they will loose their importance. These sects are doing disservice to Islam; forget about any good coming out of these sects.

Pakistani school curriculum should emphasize on generating good broad-minded Muslims. Good Pakistanis will get generated automatically.

Minorities in Pakistan should be given time to teach their own religion and/or culture.

Asfand Siddiqui

Sacramento California

Amit (#60)

``In India, there is a subtle but distinct attempt to water down the muslim past of India in history books. While pre-Islamic civilizations are glorified, the Islamic past largely focuses on the negatives such as the invasions by Mohammad bin Qasim, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Babar etc. The two rulers who are talked about are Sher Shah Suri and, of course, Akbar. Due to the presence of large numbers of Indian muslims, the protrayal is not all negative. However, the overall impression it does give is that India suffered under muslims. ``

Just curious, you were under which school board? I did my schooling under Delhi and UP Board and learnt about Nizam, Bizapur, Nawabs of Awadh and Bengals, first five mugal kings and lot many other things.

Please point to specific text books and class levels.

Regards

Amit (#60)

``In India, there is a subtle but distinct attempt to water down the muslim past of India in history books. While pre-Islamic civilizations are glorified, the Islamic past largely focuses on the negatives such as the invasions by Mohammad bin Qasim, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Babar etc. The two rulers who are talked about are Sher Shah Suri and, of course, Akbar. Due to the presence of large numbers of Indian muslims, the protrayal is not all negative. However, the overall impression it does give is that India suffered under muslims. ``

Just curious, you were under which school board? I did my schooling under Delhi and UP Board and learnt about Nizam, Bizapur, Nawabs of Awadh and Bengals, first five mugal kings and lot many other things.

Please point to specific text books and class levels.

Regards