Mecca or Mohenjodaro?

Contrary to what some of you have said, I think the writer has made a valid point to some extent. Islam is the defining point and perhaps the most profoud cultural impact on Pakistan. To deny our existence as Muslims, will be to deny ourselves.

I am a great admirer of Attaturk but one great blunder he made when secularizing the country was to engage in benign neglect towards to defining adjective of the Turk nation ... the adjective which had defined them for more than 800 years... and that adjective is Muslim.

By neglecting the cultural impact of Islam ... we are in essence denying our own raison de ettre as a nation... the nation that won Pakistan.

-Yasser Hamdani

To krashid:

--What did Jinnah speak fluently. English.--

Neither did he speak Hindi or the language of Mohenjodaro.

--What did Jinnah wore. Suit most of his life and hat.--

Neither did he wear any Indian dress or that of Mohenjodaro. After independence Jinnah only wore shalwar kameez and sherwani. There is no post-August 1947 photo of him in a suit.

--Also the biggest lie is Farsi and Urdu derived from Arabic.--

The script. He is talking about the script. Farsi is written in the ARABIC script and so is URDU.

Shamyl

Since Mr. Azam quoted Jinnah many times in regards to Islamic culture.

What did Jinnah speak fluently. English.

What did Jinnah wore. Suit most of his life and hat.

What did Jinnah drink. Real drink.

What did he eat, rumored that he ate pork also.

Also shalwar Kameez the tradional dress of Pakistan is as much Arabic as so called WHITE DRESS of Islam. (So far I have heard ``Kali Kamli of prophet PBUH or Subz Gunbad. White is something new).

Also the biggest lie is Farsi and Urdu derived from Arabic.

I have not seen such a confused writer so far.

this is a reply to sherdil #95. i usually don`t do this but people who read 1.75 books think they are experts it really gets my goat! my dear islamic banker/wanker. you say the third element of islamic banking is it being ``equity-oriented``. I know many islamic banks which dabble in equities...margined equities too. what is margin exactly would you care to describe? is interest not paid? do you think islamic institutions trade equities on pure cash???? ya right. by substituting interest with ``profit`` do you think islamic banking kicks in? Islamic Funds all over have cropped up because fat oil barons need to be relieved of their cash; hence most international banks run some kind of ``islamic`` schemes. Islamic scholars broke ground in modern mathematics, astrology, architecture and medicine. Poets, writers and artists flourished. but that was centuries ago. its sad to see that now we come up with and defend half-baked financial models in our spare time when we aren`t engaging in our favorite sports of bigotry and procreation.

re sherdil #95

As a banker, I say, whatever makes profits for the shreholders, pal. Though I assume that the Islamic injunction is against usury rather than interest per se. When investors make money, the communities in which the business operates prospers So, all the power to all the banks, Islamic, Jewish, or Confucian.

reply to AD #44

A global network of Islamic banks, investment houses and other financial institutions has started to take shape based on the principles of Islamic finance laid down in the Qur`an and the Prophet`s traditions 14 centuries ago. Islamic banking, based on the Qur`anic prohibition of charging interest, has moved from a theoretical concept to embrace more than 100 banks operating in 40 countries with multi-billion dollar deposits world-wide.

Islamic banking is widely regarded as the fastest growing sector in the Middle Eastern financial services market.

Exploding onto the financial scene barely thirty years ago, an estimated $US 70 billion worth of funds are now managed by these practices. Deposit assets held by Islamic banks were approximately $US5 billion in 1985 but grew over $60 billion in 1994.

Islamic banking has three distinguishing features:

(a) it is interest-free,

(b) it is multi-purpose and not purely commercial, and

(c) it is strongly equity-oriented.

The following is from Internews:

.........``On the investment side, the bank advanced 13.435 billion taka in 1998 to commerce, industry, real estate, transport and agriculture, etc.,`` the IPS chairman said.

..........``The pre-tax profit of the bank in 1984 was 7.83 million taka while in 1998 it reached to 148 million taka.``

..........According to the book on Islami Bank of Bangladesh, launched by Professor Khurshid, the bank`s contribution to national exchequer as income tax on net profit was about 850 million taka between 1983 and 1998 -- highest than any other private bank in Bangladesh.

..........``The bank handles 10 percent of the country`s external trade and is the fifth largest player among 40 banks in handling foreign exchange business,`` the publication states. ``It is the only bank spending 20 million taka per annum for socio-economic uplift.``

.........The book states that it had better asset quality amongst the state owned and private commercial banks and maintained adequate provisions against its non-performing assets as per criteria set by the Central Bank under the Financial Sector Reform Programme of the World Bank.

.........``With such features, Islamic Bank of Bangladesh presents a model to emulate,`` Professor Khurshid said. ``Without a government`s resolve and decision to Islamise the entire economic and banking sector, it is an uphill task to change the direction of economy.``

..........``Yet Islamic banks have succeeded in raising considerable deposits and in financing exports, imports and local trade activities, the overall impact is that Islamic banking has become acceptable to the people and business community,`` he pointed out.

..........``This has eliminated the perception that the Islamic economy was not practical,`` the IPS chairman said.--Internews

Tabung Haji in Malasia terms profits earned from investments as `Bonus`. It is not only tax-free but also exempted from `Zakat`.

The deposits and investments have had very positive results, providing a number of benefits which are not available to the pilgrims from other countries.

It is perceived that only Islam prohibits interest therefore any banking that does not allow interest-based contracts in Islamic banking. This belief is not correct.

Judaism and Christianity also prohibit interest.(Exodus 22:25, Leviticus 25:35-36, Deuteronomy 23:20, Psalms 15:5, Proverbs 28:8, Nehemiah 5:7 and Ezakhiel 18:8, 13:17 and 22:12.)

Islamic banking is a new phenomenon that has taken many observers by surprise. Islamic banking has been started in about 40 countries, in the east as well as in some western countries:

Some Islamic financial institutions were established in countries where Muslims are a minority.

* In India during the seventies (Siddiqi 1988).

* The Islamic Banking System (now called Islamic Finance House), established in Luxembourg in 1978, represents the first attempt at Islamic banking in the Western world.

* Islamic Bank International of Denmark, in Copenhagen.

* Islamic Investment Company in Melbourne, Australia.

In addition, there are some thirty Islamic banks in operation in other parts of the globe,

including the Jeddah-based Islamic Development Bank (IDB) but excluding numerous non-bank Islamic financial institutions.

``The essential feature of Islamic banking is that it is interest-free. It is concerned about the viability of the project and the profitability of the operation but not the size of the collateral. Good projects which might be turned down by conventional banks for lack of collateral would be financed by Islamic banks on a profit-sharing basis.

It is here that Islamic banks can play a vital role in stimulating economic development. Development banks are supposed to perform this function. Islamic banks are expected to be more enterprising than their conventional counterparts.

One may find in Islamic banking some innovative ideas which could add more variety to the existing financial network and an alternative to the exploitative character of the institution of interest.`` - Mohammed Arif (University of Malaya)

Although the resurgence in Islamic banking is a very recent, it has already been implemented as the only system in two Muslim countries; there are Islamic banks in many Muslim countries, and a few in on-Muslim countries as well. Along with the successful acceptance there are some problems, mainly in the area of financing.

Islamic banks are expected to engage in these activities only on a profit and loss sharing (PLS) basis. This is where the banks main income is to come from and this is also from where the investment account holders are expected to derive their profits from.

And it is precisely in this PLS scheme that the main problems of the Islamic banks lie.

Current banks practice under three categories: deposits, modes of financing (or acquiring assets) and services. Islamic banks are able to provide nearly all the services that are available in the conventional banks. The only exception seems to be in the case of letters of credit where there is a possibility for interest involvement, and even here some solutions have been found: mainly by having excess liquidity with the foreign bank.

With only minor changes in their practices, Islamic banks can get rid of all their cumbersome, burdensome and sometimes doubtful forms of financing and offer a clean and efficient interest-free banking. All the necessary ingredients are already there. The modified system will make use of only two forms of financing -- loans with a service charge and Mudaraba participatory financing -- both of which are fully accepted by all Muslim writers on the subject. (A.L.M. Ghafoor)

Such a system will offer an effective banking system where Islamic banking is a powerful alternative to conventional banking where both can co-exist.

Additionally, such a system will have no problem in obtaining authorisation to operate in non-Muslim countries.

Participatory financing is a unique feature of Islamic banking, and can offer responsible financing to socially and economically relevant development projects. This is an additional service Islamic banks offer over and above the traditional services provided by conventional commercial banks.

Interest based banking is all about money management and money is the subject matter of the business of banking. In the Islamic banking system money management is not the subject matter of the bank`s business, it is the economy that is the subject matter of the bank`s business. (-Pervez Said in the Business Recorder)

So much for the assertion that Islam cannot function in the financial world of today.

Re: Farangi_Kush

Sigh. One does get tired of trying to enlighten the unenlightenable but here goes one last try.

1 ``Misspent youth`` I refer you to the dictionary to look up the meaning of words like irony or sarcasm.

2 ``Indo-European`` The (hypothesized) parent language of most of the languages spoken in Europe and Asia as far as N. India. So, you see, Indo-European does not literally mean that the language originates in India.

However, I do understand the natural errors you made since your entire mindset and (I presume) training is geared to a literal interpretation of things. However, such a predilection does not help much in the real world.

TTFN

Looks like the only one who makes sense here is Shamyl.

Sadna (Post # 88)

A well put pun!

Sufis had real solid and rich hearts therefore they never needed worldly glitter to adorn themselves. Their hearts emitted the rays of gold that went quite far on God`s created lands and were transmitted (Like the modern age’s electronic signal) to other human beings. Interestingly, the transmission took the route of reaching the most vulnerable component in a human body, human heart. As a result, this transmission created countless real oil wells.

Hai’f Sud Hai’f, in today`s world ``the real oil wells`` do not get the much deserved coverage.

To ylh#90 and others

While we endlessly debate issues such as in this article, here is the latest goings on in the world of cricket.

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2000/may/09prem.htm

We need to cooperate more.

another Indian seconding AD`s opinion,

Ashish

So the population of Mohenjodoero civilization is 0% of the Pakistan`s population what are we supposed to do according to your logic?

Sorry, that was just a meaningless rhetoric. But I understand what you are trying to imply here. Correct me if I am wrong that Punjabi nationalists establish their sense of nationhood from the time the Sikhs established their Raj (aka. Sikha Shahi). But what they deliberately try to ignore is the fact that the status of Punjab as a political entity was first time established when the Muslim rule in Sindh moved their capital from Thatta to Multan. Subsequently, when Ghaznavis and Ghauries invaded from North the capital was moved to Lahore but the status of Punjab as a political entity was established already. After that whether a regional government was instituted by Delhi or Kabul, Punjab maintained its status as a unified political entity.

Punjabis can not advocate Harrappa or Taxila as a representative civilizations of Punjab, as they were merely establishments of a North-Eastern Indian civilization.

We do hear about Porous who had a kingdom between Bias and Jehlum but it wasn’t even close to be the representative of Punjab either.

The history of Punjab from Porous to the Islamic intervention is based on the family accounts of different tribes, families and clans, such as Jats, Gujars, Rajputs and like. These family histories suggest a tribal/nomadic setup in the west and an agricultural society in the East but not a unified nation of Punjab.

I always wonder whether Sikhs put Sikhism first or the Punjabiat first. It is true that Sikh state, though short lived, did give a sense and feel of an independent Punjab but is it true for Punjabi Muslims too?

The point is that, for Pakistani Punjabi Muslims any reference to Muslim intervention in Punjab makes more sense than any of the pre-Islamic or Sikh era reference to their identity. Mr. Azam is advocating the same point in his article but he is talking about Muslims of the subcontinent in general and of Pakistan in particular.

To AD ...

Thanks for your comments. I am glad that there are some of you out there who think like this.....

To Friendship between Pakistan and India ....

:)

-Yasser

REF: Fairdinkum re#80

You are perfectly right about RMS Azams tactics that he used to write his article. But the question is, how do the dog-whistle tactics make an argument invalid, inaccurate, prejudiced, dishonest, or short-sighted?

I would say that any argument that incites a discussion, has an element of that tactic.

Re:RSaxena #83

Dear Saxena,

Take the pig out, and I agree with the gist of your note. One undeniable influence of Islamic tradition is that, pig is definitely OUT.

Fuzair might enjoy his drink, but not sure if we would eat pig kebabs?

Why couldn`t sufis have oil money, too :-(.

Fuzair:# 81

No I am not disappointed.At least you have enough brains to realise that it was //misspent youth---(your own admission).Also now I can understand you a little better.Anybody who was in the Pak army should always be treated with kindness & sympathy---it is not their fault if they become a metaphor for lack of intelligence.I have been to mona and I am fully aware of the third-rate Pakistani `society` seen there.Those are the kinds who are ruining Pakistan.The uneducated(O level kinds) spit & polish and brasso brigade.Mercenaries,kiraye kay tuttoos,money mules.

I am disappointed though that you have not even learnt anything from your misspent youth and are still finding refuge in the pilpili sahib theatrics.

.

Your `explanation` about the article is also very simplistic & flawed.Just one example would suffice because of some other pressing matters at hand.

So if English is an Indo-European language then does it mean that English is `naturally` an Indoo language or at least 50% so?.

So please do not use moenjo-daro as an excuse to become `advanced` & `modern`.You forgot to mention the `progress` you want to make to ``Ecstacy`` and ``marijuana``(charasi sounds bad--does`nt it? it has no farangi glamour).Also be sure to be `open` about your performances to your children(if any) so that you may not be embarrased if `caught`.

I can see you living in interesting times.

There is an alternate to prozaic & liquor.



wassalaam