The Beautiful Dawn
Yasser Latif Hamdani May 15, 2000
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#35 Posted by ylh on May 24, 2000 6:06:33 pm
Dear Chowk Staff
Hi could you add my other piece ``Oh Manhattan my New York`` ... under other articles by Yasser Latif Hamdani
Hi could you add my other piece ``Oh Manhattan my New York`` ... under other articles by Yasser Latif Hamdani
#34 Posted by sigalph235 on May 21, 2000 3:47:26 pm
Re Farangi_Kush
If you don`t think there is anything wrong with Pat Buchanan, well you must have been in la la land. He is the guy who thinks that non-Christian religions have little place in America, has been admiring of Hitler on several occassions, and has nothing but contempt for immigrants. I guess there is nothing wrong with him, is there?
Trust me I know Masons, in an ``individual`` capacity. More than you think. I don`t have to go to web pages to decipher Freemasonry. Throughout history the biggest totalitarian regimes, be they the Roman Catholic Church or Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin, have been fearful of Freemasons because Masonry was one of the few global organizations that stood in the way of their (Vatican, Hitler, and Stalin) nefarious designs. Today, for similar reasons, most anti-freedom ideologies don`t approve of freemasons. Hence the similarity of anti-Masonic outlook amongst the Taleban, the Wahabis, the Pat Buchanans, and the remaining Communists. To this day, the Roman Catholic Church and all the Communist Parties have one thing in common in this regard: their adherents cannot be Masons. That the rule is sometimes disregarded goes without saying.
Funny, you tend to know all the changes of heart and mind Allama Iqbal went through. Did he personally talk to you before writing his poems?
If you don`t think there is anything wrong with Pat Buchanan, well you must have been in la la land. He is the guy who thinks that non-Christian religions have little place in America, has been admiring of Hitler on several occassions, and has nothing but contempt for immigrants. I guess there is nothing wrong with him, is there?
Trust me I know Masons, in an ``individual`` capacity. More than you think. I don`t have to go to web pages to decipher Freemasonry. Throughout history the biggest totalitarian regimes, be they the Roman Catholic Church or Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin, have been fearful of Freemasons because Masonry was one of the few global organizations that stood in the way of their (Vatican, Hitler, and Stalin) nefarious designs. Today, for similar reasons, most anti-freedom ideologies don`t approve of freemasons. Hence the similarity of anti-Masonic outlook amongst the Taleban, the Wahabis, the Pat Buchanans, and the remaining Communists. To this day, the Roman Catholic Church and all the Communist Parties have one thing in common in this regard: their adherents cannot be Masons. That the rule is sometimes disregarded goes without saying.
Funny, you tend to know all the changes of heart and mind Allama Iqbal went through. Did he personally talk to you before writing his poems?
#33 Posted by farangi_kush on May 21, 2000 12:40:22 pm
sigalph:#33
There is NO CONTEXT.Whenever we quote something(all of us) we do to reinforce our own context.Poetry is always quoted this way.Some of the lines become aphorisms & proverbs.
When one is working towards a phD only then one resorts to the kind of `research` & `scholarship` which one is trained in.Al-Hamdulillah,I have not been conditioned & spoiled by such techniques.
Thank you for `reminding` all of us about Allamas revised version of:
Saaray jahan sey achha hindostaan hammara.
Yes indeed he saw the dangers of nationalism & shirk-level love of land(dharti-maan) for the muslims.He then crooned:
Cheen o Arab humaara,Hindostaan humaara
Muslim hain hum vatan hai SARA JAHAAN HUMAARA.
This has been the beacon which is leading all the muslims in the western world & therefore pangs of post-partum are assuaged for a muslim immigrant.Of course some do get lost in the english alphabets & try to label this O`Desi-pass complex by several permutations of ABCDs.
What is wrong with Pat Buchanan?.In order to learn about Masons,all you have to do is open the web pages.There are pages by both sides(for as well as anti).It is a nice read.For more real knowledge you have to explore more on an individual basis.
The good news is that their influence is receding.With thew advent of the culture of small independant businesses(business has ceased to be a four-letter word now,let the ICS,military,and feudals know).The bazaaris have been at the forefront of the revolution in the last two centuries(French & Iranian).They are the ones who
have the `luxury` of behaving the way they choose to.The rest subscribe to Corporate,Bureaucratic,or military establishment practises of worshipping & bowing to demi-gods & fir-auns for fear of being denied the `goodies` or facing the wrath of displacement.
__________________________________________________
I hope this was not too long an answer.It is difficult sometimes to stifle the flow of thoughts and I do not plan when I write.And I seldom revise what I write----one grammar-geek on chowk does the nit picking for me.
___________________________________________________wassalam.
__________________________________________________
There is NO CONTEXT.Whenever we quote something(all of us) we do to reinforce our own context.Poetry is always quoted this way.Some of the lines become aphorisms & proverbs.
When one is working towards a phD only then one resorts to the kind of `research` & `scholarship` which one is trained in.Al-Hamdulillah,I have not been conditioned & spoiled by such techniques.
Thank you for `reminding` all of us about Allamas revised version of:
Saaray jahan sey achha hindostaan hammara.
Yes indeed he saw the dangers of nationalism & shirk-level love of land(dharti-maan) for the muslims.He then crooned:
Cheen o Arab humaara,Hindostaan humaara
Muslim hain hum vatan hai SARA JAHAAN HUMAARA.
This has been the beacon which is leading all the muslims in the western world & therefore pangs of post-partum are assuaged for a muslim immigrant.Of course some do get lost in the english alphabets & try to label this O`Desi-pass complex by several permutations of ABCDs.
What is wrong with Pat Buchanan?.In order to learn about Masons,all you have to do is open the web pages.There are pages by both sides(for as well as anti).It is a nice read.For more real knowledge you have to explore more on an individual basis.
The good news is that their influence is receding.With thew advent of the culture of small independant businesses(business has ceased to be a four-letter word now,let the ICS,military,and feudals know).The bazaaris have been at the forefront of the revolution in the last two centuries(French & Iranian).They are the ones who
have the `luxury` of behaving the way they choose to.The rest subscribe to Corporate,Bureaucratic,or military establishment practises of worshipping & bowing to demi-gods & fir-auns for fear of being denied the `goodies` or facing the wrath of displacement.
__________________________________________________
I hope this was not too long an answer.It is difficult sometimes to stifle the flow of thoughts and I do not plan when I write.And I seldom revise what I write----one grammar-geek on chowk does the nit picking for me.
___________________________________________________wassalam.
__________________________________________________
#32 Posted by farangi_kush on May 21, 2000 12:40:22 pm
gymnosophist:#32
Thanks for your query.
This was written,as you know,way way before Pakistan was created.Allama died in 1938.So let us not make it an Indo-Pak or Hindu-Muslim issue.
But the thrust of the message is universal & for all times.It just happens that here it is addressed to muslims(mullah,to be exact,in the shai`r).
If you are ALLOWED or TOLERATED then you are not free.Many mullahs & `ulemas` of the times who were `bought` by the British chirped that since muslims are `free` to do the rituals(-----as long as they `behave`)---they should buttress the British.
Such line of thinking is still touted by those
`enlightened` ones(UNISLAMISTS)in the western world,who are ashamed to see a muslim woman insisting on a certain mode of dress or a sikh fighting for his Vahi-Guru ORDERED(not ALLOWED,mind you--ORDERED) designer-dagger called a kirpaan.
Those who let others `allow` them to do what really is their own Masters Command are at best `tolerated` in this world of ours.They end up on reserves,aborginal corrals,Amish communities,or Quakers.Did I ever say jackals do not have a life of their own.It is the `STYLE` that counts my dear dear friend.`The style IS the man`---and woman,and Nation(with due apologies to the bard).
``Parvaz hai dono ki issi eik fiza mein
krgs ka jahan aur hai shaheen ka jahan aur``
A L L A M A Iqbal
tr:The two of them circle this same very sky,but the world of a vulture is not the same as that of an eagle.
__________________________________________________I think you still want to know how,in my view,is your beloved India faring viz-a-viz its muslim population.My answer:much better than most,better than even in Pakistan.It is another matter that this has a lot to do with the 15% `swing` votes and I`m not trying to be cynical here.Please excuse me if you do not find me ready to open a new can of worms here.There are too many cans and no shortage of worms.The best `solution` is to garbage these cans and learn to read their expiry dates.
All the other countries you mentioned also do not fit into the `philosophy` recited above.
I will spare you the `harangue`.Sometimes the waters get more muddled by too much `analysis` & `research`.Let us follow the spirit of it.
Your `name` is unusual and I am perhaps not wrong to think,a very well thought out one.The urdu/hindi equivalent could be Sheesh-assan buddhi.What would you suggest?
wassalaam
Thanks for your query.
This was written,as you know,way way before Pakistan was created.Allama died in 1938.So let us not make it an Indo-Pak or Hindu-Muslim issue.
But the thrust of the message is universal & for all times.It just happens that here it is addressed to muslims(mullah,to be exact,in the shai`r).
If you are ALLOWED or TOLERATED then you are not free.Many mullahs & `ulemas` of the times who were `bought` by the British chirped that since muslims are `free` to do the rituals(-----as long as they `behave`)---they should buttress the British.
Such line of thinking is still touted by those
`enlightened` ones(UNISLAMISTS)in the western world,who are ashamed to see a muslim woman insisting on a certain mode of dress or a sikh fighting for his Vahi-Guru ORDERED(not ALLOWED,mind you--ORDERED) designer-dagger called a kirpaan.
Those who let others `allow` them to do what really is their own Masters Command are at best `tolerated` in this world of ours.They end up on reserves,aborginal corrals,Amish communities,or Quakers.Did I ever say jackals do not have a life of their own.It is the `STYLE` that counts my dear dear friend.`The style IS the man`---and woman,and Nation(with due apologies to the bard).
``Parvaz hai dono ki issi eik fiza mein
krgs ka jahan aur hai shaheen ka jahan aur``
A L L A M A Iqbal
tr:The two of them circle this same very sky,but the world of a vulture is not the same as that of an eagle.
__________________________________________________I think you still want to know how,in my view,is your beloved India faring viz-a-viz its muslim population.My answer:much better than most,better than even in Pakistan.It is another matter that this has a lot to do with the 15% `swing` votes and I`m not trying to be cynical here.Please excuse me if you do not find me ready to open a new can of worms here.There are too many cans and no shortage of worms.The best `solution` is to garbage these cans and learn to read their expiry dates.
All the other countries you mentioned also do not fit into the `philosophy` recited above.
I will spare you the `harangue`.Sometimes the waters get more muddled by too much `analysis` & `research`.Let us follow the spirit of it.
Your `name` is unusual and I am perhaps not wrong to think,a very well thought out one.The urdu/hindi equivalent could be Sheesh-assan buddhi.What would you suggest?
wassalaam
#31 Posted by sigalph235 on May 20, 2000 8:32:57 pm
Re Farangi Kush 31
Funny. The same Allama Iqbal also said
``Cheen o Arab hamara,
Hindostaan hamara,
Hum Muslim hain,
Sara jahaan hamara``
I sometimes suspect that you take quite a bit of liberty with the context of literary writings. One has to read your posts to be in the delusion that Sir Muhammad Iqbal (with knighthood bestowed by the Viceroy on behalf of the noble King-Emperor) was a Taleabni mullah.
Your rants about Masonic conspiracies are xerox copies of Pat Buchanan`s complaints about the Masons. Would you like his address to have a heart-to-heart talk?
Funny. The same Allama Iqbal also said
``Cheen o Arab hamara,
Hindostaan hamara,
Hum Muslim hain,
Sara jahaan hamara``
I sometimes suspect that you take quite a bit of liberty with the context of literary writings. One has to read your posts to be in the delusion that Sir Muhammad Iqbal (with knighthood bestowed by the Viceroy on behalf of the noble King-Emperor) was a Taleabni mullah.
Your rants about Masonic conspiracies are xerox copies of Pat Buchanan`s complaints about the Masons. Would you like his address to have a heart-to-heart talk?
#30 Posted by gymnosophist on May 20, 2000 4:26:35 pm
Reply FARANGI_KUSH #: 31
You quoted {If Muslim has been allowed to say his prayers in India,the simpleton mistakenly thinks that Islam has attained `freedom`(in the land)}
Would it be possible to explain what else should a Muslim be allowed to do before Islam is considered to have attained freedom? I as a simpleton would like further elucidation.
Would similar conditions apply to Sinkiang?
Are all criteria sufficiently satisfied that you think that in Pakistan Islam is in full flower?
Would you please rank Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Algeria, Iran, and Afghanistan as to the freedom experienced by Islam in those counties?
Thank you in advance for your answers.
You quoted {If Muslim has been allowed to say his prayers in India,the simpleton mistakenly thinks that Islam has attained `freedom`(in the land)}
Would it be possible to explain what else should a Muslim be allowed to do before Islam is considered to have attained freedom? I as a simpleton would like further elucidation.
Would similar conditions apply to Sinkiang?
Are all criteria sufficiently satisfied that you think that in Pakistan Islam is in full flower?
Would you please rank Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Algeria, Iran, and Afghanistan as to the freedom experienced by Islam in those counties?
Thank you in advance for your answers.
#29 Posted by farangi_kush on May 20, 2000 1:04:43 am
ylh:
Gargoyles,demons,trolls,churails,chandaals,rakhshises,shaitaans,bhoots,dayins,ghosts etc etc, donned in many ``harmless`` do-gooder garbs are going to distract you.Ignore them,do not even waste your spit or breadth upon them.You need all the energy & incisive determination.
Know the camaflouges of these monsters.They come under the following brand names:
Secularist,Liberal,Socialist,Communist,Capitalist,Free-thinker,Free-trader,Freemason,Scientologist,Roscicrucian,
Shriner,Rotary,Lions,Knights Templars and many many more.
These always appear as do-gooders & maskingly neverseem lose their temper.Handle them accordingly.
These are the biggest enemies of all those who profess & adhere to any Faith.They despise & hate anyone who is a practising hindu,christain,jew,buddhist or anybody.
The history of the world during the last 200 years has been nothing but the muscle-ing in of the Freemasons.How many of us know that the present day Democrat & Republican parties is actually the result of the rift between the Masonic Party which held an iron grip on American politics till 1860s or so.Even then,the pie was amicably divided between fellow masons on each side.This is no big secret.it is all there for the asking,because it never was considered `evil` by those who wielded the influence.The others never mattered.
Is it any wonder that the first Indian to become a freemason was the Nawab of Arcot,who sold out Indian interests to Clive around 1750s(Battle of Pondicherry & then Plassey).
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.--.-.-.--.-.-.-.-.-
-----Since this is from memory,please pay attention only to the essence of it rather than missing the forest for the trees----a very nefarious tactic employed by certain chowkwallas to deflect the main thrust of the subject matter.
``Muslim ko hai jo Hind mein sujdey ki Ijazat
Nadaan yeh sumajhta hai kay Islam hai azaad``
A L L A M A Iqbal.
tr:If Muslim has been allowed to say his prayers in India,the simpleton mistakenly thinks that Islam has attained `freedom`(in the land).
__________________________________________________
wassalam.
Gargoyles,demons,trolls,churails,chandaals,rakhshises,shaitaans,bhoots,dayins,ghosts etc etc, donned in many ``harmless`` do-gooder garbs are going to distract you.Ignore them,do not even waste your spit or breadth upon them.You need all the energy & incisive determination.
Know the camaflouges of these monsters.They come under the following brand names:
Secularist,Liberal,Socialist,Communist,Capitalist,Free-thinker,Free-trader,Freemason,Scientologist,Roscicrucian,
Shriner,Rotary,Lions,Knights Templars and many many more.
These always appear as do-gooders & maskingly neverseem lose their temper.Handle them accordingly.
These are the biggest enemies of all those who profess & adhere to any Faith.They despise & hate anyone who is a practising hindu,christain,jew,buddhist or anybody.
The history of the world during the last 200 years has been nothing but the muscle-ing in of the Freemasons.How many of us know that the present day Democrat & Republican parties is actually the result of the rift between the Masonic Party which held an iron grip on American politics till 1860s or so.Even then,the pie was amicably divided between fellow masons on each side.This is no big secret.it is all there for the asking,because it never was considered `evil` by those who wielded the influence.The others never mattered.
Is it any wonder that the first Indian to become a freemason was the Nawab of Arcot,who sold out Indian interests to Clive around 1750s(Battle of Pondicherry & then Plassey).
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.--.-.-.--.-.-.-.-.-
-----Since this is from memory,please pay attention only to the essence of it rather than missing the forest for the trees----a very nefarious tactic employed by certain chowkwallas to deflect the main thrust of the subject matter.
``Muslim ko hai jo Hind mein sujdey ki Ijazat
Nadaan yeh sumajhta hai kay Islam hai azaad``
A L L A M A Iqbal.
tr:If Muslim has been allowed to say his prayers in India,the simpleton mistakenly thinks that Islam has attained `freedom`(in the land).
__________________________________________________
wassalam.
#28 Posted by rsaxena on May 18, 2000 10:14:25 pm
What a pot of rotten kheer and waste of otherwise valuable Chowk writing space this piece is. What is Chowk coming to?!
Why not let this pimple-faced overzealous kid from Rutghati Univ post his rabid ``5000 years of Pakistan`` pieces too?
Hell, give the Lashkar-e-terrorist group a weekly writing space.
Why not let this pimple-faced overzealous kid from Rutghati Univ post his rabid ``5000 years of Pakistan`` pieces too?
Hell, give the Lashkar-e-terrorist group a weekly writing space.
#27 Posted by ylh on May 18, 2000 12:07:47 pm
It is my understanding that Mohajir is Mr Cowasjee in person .... a writer of immense fame .....
See how problematic it becomes for any Pakistani leader ?
Attaturk had it easy (though he took it a step too far) .... he just had to deal with the extreme
religious right ....
In Pakistan not only do we have to deal with the extreme religious right ... but also the liberals .... the self proclaimed self styled Kemalists of Pakistan who unfortunately have no clue what Kemalism is ........ seems like being anti partition and anti Pakistan ``Pakistan has failed`` rhetoric has become the fad in the liberal mindset .... much like the other pseudo intellectual from Quaid e Azam University Mr Hoodbhoy ..... whose pathetic perfomance in ``Pakistan India and the Bomb`` made me feel like I was going to puke
I think Ardshar Cowasjee was perhaps the same person who ran into some kind of problem with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Shaheed .....
I am sure the blabberings of a self proclaimed, self styled liberal wanna be did not go down well with my hero......
I am sorry if I offend people ... because I am apparently disrespecting the stalwarts of Pakistani journalism ... but this old man insulted Pakistan .... and I have no respect for him what so ever ....
These Pseudo Intellectual, psuedo liberal, self styled Kemalists only know how to criticize ....
when presented with a positive picture ... they are the first ones to criticize it for being impractical ...
So this is for all of you PEOPLE who in any way or form can imagine re unification ... PAKISTAN IS HERE TO STAY INSHALLAH ... AND REUNIFICATION JUST AINT HAPPENIN .....
Mr Cowasjee, your comments were most displeasing!
Maybe because you were born in a Unified India it doesnt matter to you ... but by making such comments you have unleashed a personal attack ... because DENYING PAKISTAN IS LIKE DENYING MY WHOLE EXISTENCE ...... BECAUSE I AM A PAKISTANI WHO WAS BORN IN PAKISTAN ...
MR Cowasjee your time is over... you have done your job extremely patchily because half the time you were dreaming of reunification .... it is our time now and traitors are not allowed!!!!!
See how problematic it becomes for any Pakistani leader ?
Attaturk had it easy (though he took it a step too far) .... he just had to deal with the extreme
religious right ....
In Pakistan not only do we have to deal with the extreme religious right ... but also the liberals .... the self proclaimed self styled Kemalists of Pakistan who unfortunately have no clue what Kemalism is ........ seems like being anti partition and anti Pakistan ``Pakistan has failed`` rhetoric has become the fad in the liberal mindset .... much like the other pseudo intellectual from Quaid e Azam University Mr Hoodbhoy ..... whose pathetic perfomance in ``Pakistan India and the Bomb`` made me feel like I was going to puke
I think Ardshar Cowasjee was perhaps the same person who ran into some kind of problem with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Shaheed .....
I am sure the blabberings of a self proclaimed, self styled liberal wanna be did not go down well with my hero......
I am sorry if I offend people ... because I am apparently disrespecting the stalwarts of Pakistani journalism ... but this old man insulted Pakistan .... and I have no respect for him what so ever ....
These Pseudo Intellectual, psuedo liberal, self styled Kemalists only know how to criticize ....
when presented with a positive picture ... they are the first ones to criticize it for being impractical ...
So this is for all of you PEOPLE who in any way or form can imagine re unification ... PAKISTAN IS HERE TO STAY INSHALLAH ... AND REUNIFICATION JUST AINT HAPPENIN .....
Mr Cowasjee, your comments were most displeasing!
Maybe because you were born in a Unified India it doesnt matter to you ... but by making such comments you have unleashed a personal attack ... because DENYING PAKISTAN IS LIKE DENYING MY WHOLE EXISTENCE ...... BECAUSE I AM A PAKISTANI WHO WAS BORN IN PAKISTAN ...
MR Cowasjee your time is over... you have done your job extremely patchily because half the time you were dreaming of reunification .... it is our time now and traitors are not allowed!!!!!
#26 Posted by ylh on May 17, 2000 1:14:27 pm
By the female representation at 35% was realistic assessment ... keeping in mind that the most Pakistan had was 15% and ... the most US has ever had has remained under 10% ......
ofcourse I would love to see 50% .... only if the
honorable female members did not graduate from Douglass college though :)
ofcourse I would love to see 50% .... only if the
honorable female members did not graduate from Douglass college though :)
#25 Posted by ylh on May 17, 2000 1:14:27 pm
By the female representation at 35% was realistic assessment ... keeping in mind that the most Pakistan had was 15% and ... the most US has ever had has remained under 10% ......
ofcourse I would love to see 50% .... only if the
honorable female members did not graduate from Douglass college though :)
ofcourse I would love to see 50% .... only if the
honorable female members did not graduate from Douglass college though :)
#24 Posted by ylh on May 17, 2000 1:14:27 pm
Membership is now open for Taraqi o Musaawaat Party Pakistan....... please send your emails to
beligible@hotmail.com to join ... Inshallah we will have a convention in ... 20 years time :)
-Yasser Hamdani
beligible@hotmail.com to join ... Inshallah we will have a convention in ... 20 years time :)
-Yasser Hamdani
#23 Posted by ylh on May 17, 2000 1:14:27 pm
First of all, I d like to say that Farangi Kush`s posts always leave me with more optimism,... more idealism.... more imagination .... I enjoy reading his posts a lot.
Ok since some of you have asked me about my Indian friend... my Indian friend`s name is Prem Saghar Bodagala. He is double majoring in Religion and Biological sciences and he is from Andhra Pradesh in India currently residing in Woodbridge NJ... the only thing we do 24/7 is fight about Kashmir and thats why we are best of friends. At the Kashmir forum the way we were talking at each other gave everyone the impression that we were sworn enemies ... only to their amazement we walked out of the forum hand in hand....
To Solitude .... I am sorry but you really are beyond help ....
To Zehra ... what did I ever do to you or Sakina??
:)
-Yasser Hamdani
Ok since some of you have asked me about my Indian friend... my Indian friend`s name is Prem Saghar Bodagala. He is double majoring in Religion and Biological sciences and he is from Andhra Pradesh in India currently residing in Woodbridge NJ... the only thing we do 24/7 is fight about Kashmir and thats why we are best of friends. At the Kashmir forum the way we were talking at each other gave everyone the impression that we were sworn enemies ... only to their amazement we walked out of the forum hand in hand....
To Solitude .... I am sorry but you really are beyond help ....
To Zehra ... what did I ever do to you or Sakina??
:)
-Yasser Hamdani
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