Where did Pakistan go wrong?

Todays The News` Comments have an article titles `Shameful`.. depressing (not strong enough a word) reading (much more so than this one.. I`m unable to look at it quite as objectively as PM, and look for hidden agendas..). Again, calls on us to reevaluate who we are and what we stand for.. why we are surrounded by hypocrisy and evils.. and most importantly, what can we do to stop it, to change it. Where can we begin? We refer continually to the evils of the bourgousie and the humility and hospitality of the economically deprived (whether urban or rural).. I think our entire society has become sick, from top to bottom.. and can we really bring about change if we don`t actually DO something? Jay and his ilk jeer at our putting forward the extremists representing a scant 2% of our population.. even if just a few hundred thousand, if they are organized and determined, they will be able to weild much more influence than the millions who passively sit by. After all, evil can only flourish when good men just sit back and do nothing.

I know, as I write this, that for all my indignation, I am not so likely to be willing to take to the streets and risk getting lathi-charged, tear gassed, shot or set upon by opposing protestors, upon an ideal, no mater how elevated. I`m comfortable, and as such, I am scared, having things to lose. So will they come for me after they take the Jews, the Communinists and the gypsies?

and if you care to notice Pakistani Muslims are better off than Indian Muslims on average ....

on average a Pakistani earns 1000 dollars more than average Indian ... which means that an average Pakistani Muslim earns atleast 1200 dollars more than an average Indian ... simple Economics .... Purchasing Power Parity they call

or GDP/CAPITA....

SUper power ... yeah right ?

If a fascist, Neo Nazi country (claiming to a democracy) spends more on Nuclear Porgramme and Missle Programme and on its SU 35s ... and becomes a great power apparently ... doesnt mean that its better off ...

You know the only thing holding back Pakistan is India ... had you people accepted Pakistan existence instead of being a pain ... we would both be considerably well off ....

why is it that India still tries to starve Pakistan... why did India increase its defence bdget spending in 98-99 by 28% ... was it not to starve Pakistan`s Economy ....

People like Roopam are the ones who make me hate India ...

I remember reading a post once by an Indian who said ... ``I join you in saying Pakistan Zindabad``

and I thought maybe there is hope for us ... but after reading Roopam`s post ... I am sorry to say but this is exactly the kind of thought that is the cause of India Pakistan Conflict ...

Pakistan and India will never unify ... and if Indians keep this up we will never be friends either...

This adds to my permanent grudge.

I had written about peace and friendship between Pakistan and India in ``Beautiful Dawn`` ... now I take all those things back ....

I dont want us to be friends.....

We have fought a war for 1000 years in the subcontinent ... and we will fight one for a 1000 more .... no Peace without Honor....

-Pakistan Zindabad

-Quaid e Azam Zindabad

-Jiye Bhutto

-Imran Khan for PM

Yasser Hamdani

Roopam your knowledge of Pakistan is ... well I must say Pathetic... Also I am an undergrad in the United States and even when I was in Pakistan I rarely watched PTV ... so your assumptions are innaccurate....

PLEASE go read my post again ...

there are 153 million Muslims in Pakistan ....

the estimate of Muslims in India is between 120 to 140 million ... and 140 million is stretching it.

My advice to all Indians .... mind your own business....

You know why I hate India ... besides Kashmir???

Because you are always out to bash the creation of Pakistan .... dont I have a right to hate you?

We wanted Pakistan, we got Pakistan and Pakistan is here to stay ... untill you make peace with that we will not cease to hate you ... atleast I wont.

Now unless you have something productive to say BASED ON FACTS ... say otherwise please dont waste my time ... I am a college student... my time is precious.

As for the rest of you all.. you can see how Mr or Miss Roopam`s post was unwarranted .... cuz I never said anything against India in mine.

-Pakistan Zindabad

-Quaid e Azam Zindabad

-Jiye Bhutto

-Imran Khan for PM

-Yasser Hamdani

Sameer,

A thriving middle class? I think I`d read that our middle-class is shrinking, with people falling into lower income brackets, while India`s is increasing. Not a sign of good health for us..

Bhutto was no saint, although in the article he has the audacity to pass judgment on why India has remained united in the face of all odds, and why Pakistan has been dismembered. For Bhutto`s role in the secession of East Pakistan, I can think of no better account than in:

War and Secession : Pakistan, India, and the Creation of Bangladesh

by Richard Sisson, Leo E. Rose. Paperback (August 1991)

available from Amazon.com for $16.95

Good article. I would like to include an opinion piece from today`s article of `Jang`:

Inexorable Indian spectre

Najum Mushtaq

Is Pakistan`s foreign policy US-centric? A right-wing section of Pakistan`s bulging corps of foreign policy experts asserts that it is. Therefore, so goes the argument, Islamabad ought to diversify its policy options and cultivate new alliances--in the Muslim world (Syria, for example) and across Latin America, Europe etc.

There are two defects in this line of reasoning. One, Pakistan`s foreign policy is not US-centric: it is Indo-centric. Two, the new-alliance theory presumes that there are willing allies waiting out there, anxious to grasp our outstretched hand of `friendship`.

A state`s foreign policy reflects its self-image. (The United States, for instance, sees itself as a modern-day democratic empire with interests to safeguard around the globe and the economic and military muscle to do so--hence its widely extended engagements.) Pakistan`s self-image, unfortunately, has been carved out under the menacing shadow of its big eastern neighbour. From its birth in 1947 the country has been groomed with an identity whose basic ingredient is being not Indian and, as a logical consequence of this, hostile to India. Anti-India rhetoric is blared from the pulpit, chalked on walls, propagated on TV and in the press, and cited in everyday conversations.

This inexorable Indian spectre influences and outweighs Pakistan`s every other domestic and foreign policy consideration. How it sees and responds to India has shaped Pakistan`s worldview and defined its relations with other countries. Even the apparent centrality of the US factor in Pakistan`s foreign policy was initially the result of its search for a security umbrella to shield it from the primary Indian threat.

India, or rather hatred of India, has also dictated the agenda of domestic politics in Pakistan. It determines the pattern of allocation of this country`s earned and borrowed resources. The pace and direction of scientific and technological development in Pakistan has been set in reaction to India`s. Everything is done or said in relation to what happens across the border. The degree of zeal against India is the touchstone of Pakistani patriotism.

Any review of Pakistan`s foreign policy must therefore start with a review of our India policy. It is highly irrational to continue following a course that has taken us nowhere, yielded so little and done so much harm all round to our nation. The impact of Indo-centrism on Pakistani society and economy has been far greater and more harmful than of any other factor. Pakistan`s growth as a self-confident, mature and responsible unit in the comity of nation-states has been stunted by the burden of its enmity with India.

No government in Pakistan has been forthright enough to admit that its India policy is taking the country in the wrong direction. It is a policy that benefits some powerful sections of society whose sole claim to prestige is their anti-India posture and rhetoric. This has been a major factor in making the established India view so hard to challenge. In the past this rigid dogmatism has often led to war. If talk of peace does not gain force now, the next showdown may be the last one.

Interesting article on Pakistan and its present problems.

Though what Lalit Mohan says is true, it would be better for the Indians, in order to discover the root of where Pakistan went wrong, to discern the dicothomy in Pakistani politics. Jinnah was a British trained consitutional lawyer and his consituency was rurul and feudal in its outlook and thus, they did not share his vision of what Pakistan should be.

Secondly, Pakistan is more prone to an autocratic rule than an institutional one, because of the feudal nature of Pakistani society in its early days, the man on the horse back was more important than the insitution of the state and since the majority of its people lived in villages, where the writ of the feudal lord was more powerful than the writ of the state, Pakistanis never developed an appreciation for insitutional goverance; in other words, democracy. If seen in this context, it then becomes clear as to why Pakistani politicans are willing to undermine insititutional rule for the sake of personal rule and thus, this antithesis has been the historic bane of our lack, as a nation, to develop a civic culture in Pakistan, which puts a premium on insititutional rule instead of personal autocracy.

Pakistan society, in 1947, which was agarian and feudal was never prepared for a rule based on egalitarism and it resisted it then and it is resisting it now. Intolerance and hate are relative new comers to this lexicon of our politcal language and have nothing to do with our basic problem, which the fedual mindset which governs Pakistan as a personal fiefdom and is not amenable to change.

Ciao!

I totally agree with this article.

Particularly

the part where it says that oppsition is not exiled or fearful to return home in democracy.

We have seen that in dictatorship and army rule of Nawaz Sharif when Benazir went into self exile and Asif Zardari was perpetually put in jail.

Jamaatis were perpetually beaten and Supreme Court was ransacked.

I think the current democratic setup should continue.

Or am I confusing history of LandLord-Capitalist alliance and their interfight as democracy or dictatorship.

There is something wrong somewhere.

Nice, summarized rehash of arguments I think we`ve heard many times on the chowk.

I think the main thesis of the author, that an ideology based on divisiness results in unsustainable polity, seems to be quite sound.

Have a few questions in re. to Sameer`s post, but I guess I`ll just wait for Sadhana to address them :-)

RE: SameerJB

``In real terms, their is only a marginal difference between living standards of Pakistan and India, so far.``

I`m not sure about that Sameer. While it`s true that the poor on both sides are equally hopeless and the rich on both sides are super rich, there is a noticeable difference between the middle class. For example, in India, miraculously, there is a way for bright lower middle-class youngsters to get a superior, world-class education at an IIT or IIM and succeed without moving abroad. For example, a number of the top investment banks and consulting firms have setup shop in India and hire locally, often paying handsome salaries. I have met many of these people and believe me a lot of them are truly from the lower middle class and have made it without bribes, ministerial favors, or family wealth and connections. I doubt there are as many ample opportunities for the young people of Pakistan.

RS

Sameer # 1

``Strife, instability and economic decline – how did Pakistan ever get into this mess? The fault probably lies in the sentiments that underscored the creation of Pakistan – INTOLERANCE and hate.``

[I added the capital letters]

Very good article. One is always weary of any hidden agendas in articles critiquing either India or Pakistan by citizens of the opposing country, but this author makes some excellent points.

Regarding Sameer`s point that virtually no Pakistani thinks Partition has anything to do with the country`s current state of affairs, while I`m sure its true, I disagree. At the very least, the fact that Pakistan was founded on the basis of religion has prevented the country from maintaining a successful democracy. a religious state which forced all non-members to flee is at odds with the idea of a free democracy.

Regards,

Harish

the emergency was not a break in the pattern of democracy -- indira gandhi imposed it under specific existing provisions of the constitution of india, which she was empowered to do.

this is rightly seen as being draconian, but it cannot be said to be a break in democracy.

a minor point but an important one.

Another myth I would like to do away with is that the average man in India is more prosperous than an average man in Pakistan....

with all its Economic short comings and recent to nose dive ... Pakistan`s Purchasing power parity GDP/Capita remains at 2600 Dollars per year (Mashallah) as opposed to India`s 1600 Dollars .... In CIA book of facts things look better for India with Pakistan at 2000 dollars and India at 1700 ...

I agree that population is a big factor in this.

A good article from an Indian ...

Especially liked the Bhutto part being an Ardent admirer of the great man .....

One thing I want to clarify to all readers however is that ``India has more Muslims than Pakistan`` is a myth .....

Pakistan has somewhere from 150 to 155 million Muslims .... Indian Muslims remain at around 130 million which is still substantial but in the modern world we are well aware that percentages matter more than numbers ... so this is a ridiculous thing to bring up and for this I hold a grudge against all Indian Muslims ...

Let me end by saying PAKISTAN will not fail... we will not let it inshallah ....

reading the article again I do get the feel of exaggeration in some ways ... maybe the writer never visited Pakistan??????

-Pakistan Zindabad

-Quaid e Azam Jinnah Zindabad

-Jiye Bhutto

-Imran Khan for PM

Yasser Hamdani

Lalit: There are many thing which went wrong in Pakistan, some you pointed out very well. I will rank operation Gibralter or 1965 War as the turning point, for worse, in the historty of Pakistan. Despite political instability prior to 1965 war, Pakistan was generally considered on the right track and economically growing better than India. Nothing really has gone right since then. Instead of always dominated by the concerns about India--spending more than what we could afford on military--we should have been investing in education (which would have positively effected the population growth rate as well as economy) and infrastructure.

There will be many posts in response to your articles, blaming corruption, politicians, feudals or even excessive religion but the backbone of all problems is excessive power of military. They have created, helped and protected a corrpt and worthless group of feudal/politicians/bureaucracy class who have plundered Pakistan in return for their pro military policies. The madaris, jehadis and sectarian violence is the direct consequence of the dominance of military and military-backed elite in all echelon of power.

However, despite all the problems, a thriving middle class does exist in Pakistan and the standard of livings can easily be compared with Indian middle class. This has to do with a very thriving parallel economy and very low taxes in addition to widespread cheating in taxes. The argument against paying taxes is very simple. People expect services in return for their taxes, as in the western societies. If a government can not provide education, healthcare, protection of life and property; they should not expect people paying their share of taxes honestly. Why should anybody pay taxes when the government at the highest level goes on the record of stating unwillingness to clamp down on madaris and jehadis--due to its effects on Afghanistan policy or the destabilization of current regime--effectively telling public to protect on your own against sectarian attacks? They have prosecuted only two persons for sectarian related crimes in the last 5 years. Is it okay to be killed in a mosque or Imam Bargah, but it is unfair not to pay your share of the taxes?

The other bright spot is perhaps higher education. A segment of urban population in Pakistan is doing remarkably well ( as compared to Muslims in India). It can be easily seen among the Indo/ Pak Muslim communities in the USA. Pakistanis are not as successful as Indians, in general, but much much better than the comparable much smaller community of Indian Muslims.

One thing you must remember, almost all Pakistanis do not even think of partition as the main cause of their current difficulties. Besides no one willingly wants to become a minority (religious or otherwise), except for USA-Mexico like situation where economic disparites are very large. In real terms, their is only a marginal difference between living standards of Pakistan and India, so far.