A Rumor Of Lies

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/shtml/NEWS/P9S1.shtml

Sunday Mirror, UK

PAKISTAN MUST ACT TO HALT THIS THREAT TO WORLD PEACE

THE export of nuclear capacity from Pakistan is a deadly threat to the region and the world.

Pakistan must stop the trade which the Sunday Mirror has exposed.

It`s no good for their government to say they have no control over third parties or private companies who sell nuclear materials. If they were determined to put a stop to this they could.

When nuclear material falls into the hands of private parties parties it is a short step to getting into terrorist hands.

There is a link between Pakistan`s exports of nuclear capability and terrorism. The country is rapidly becoming a threat to world peace.

I will investigate this matter and take action to alert the international community, the United Nations and other bodies as to what is going on in Pakistan.

Will Pakistan be the next Afghanistan?



By AMIR ZIA, Associated Press Writer

MIRALI, Pakistan (AP) - Loudspeakers used to blare songs from the small music shops inside the crowded bazaar of this town in Pakistan`s remote northwestern border region.

Not anymore.

The shops are shuttered. Also gone are the television antennas that sprouted from the rooftops of the mud and brick houses of Mirali, 20 miles east of the Afghan border.

Emboldened by the success of the Taliban religious militia next door in Afghanistan, men espousing the same restrictive brand of Islam have formed their own Taliban movement and started to impose their rules.

Known as Tehrik-e-Taliban, the movement has the same goals as the Taliban in Afghanistan. It wants to eradicate music, TV, videos - virtually all forms of light entertainment. It seeks to ban women taking jobs and to limit girls` schooling to the study of the Koran and only up to age 8.

Taliban supporters also impose religious observance, requiring all men to pray in the mosque five times a day, grow beards and wear turbans.

While the movement wants to see such rules for all of Pakistan, it is concentrating on the rugged region that borders Afghanistan and is largely run by tribal elders. Like the Afghan Taliban, the people of Pakistan`s tribal belt are predominantly ethnic Pathans and follow similar tribal traditions.

Critics contend the religious interpretations by Afghanistan`s Taliban rulers are more a reflection of tribal traditions than of the teachings of Islam. They say Islam extols the value of education for both men and women and has no objection to music or movies.

The critics are especially bothered by the forcible imposition of Taliban ways on everyone under the militia`s rule.

``The use of force is against Islam`s spirit. We should win people by love and reasoning,`` said Qibla Ayaz, an Islamic studies professor at Pakistan`s Peshawar University.

Pakistan`s tribal region, however, is increasingly embracing the Taliban version of Islam.

In April, more than 2,000 armed Taliban followers went on a rampage in Mirali, smashing TV sets and burning hundreds of audio and video tapes.

``All men keep weapons here, but the Taliban outnumbered shopkeepers,`` said Mohammed Turrab, who repairs tape recorders. ``All music and video shops have stayed closed.``

Zar Gul, a tribal elder who supports the Taliban, said the campaign against television and music was ``just a beginning toward the goal of Islamic law`s enforcement.``

``Television and music are evil,`` Gul said. ``They should have no place in a Muslim society because they promote obscenity and corruption.``

Over the past year, Taliban leaders have formed a parallel administration in some parts of Pakistan`s tribal region, said Shaharyar Bangash, an official of a foreign-financed aid group, the National Research and Development Foundation.

He said the Taliban are winning supporters because national governments have ignored the impoverished and backward region. Less than 6 percent of the area`s people can read and write, compared with the national average of 45 percent. Each acre of agricultural land must support nearly seven people, three times the national average.

Mushtaq Jadoon, a senior government official, dismissed suggestions a parallel Taliban administration has sprung up.

``In parts of the tribal area, people decided voluntarily to curb social evils,`` he said. ``But we have asked clerics to approach us with complaints of obscenity, drugs or liquor instead of taking a direct action, and they say they will.``

Not everyone in the tribal belt supports the Taliban.

``It makes no sense that things that are allowed elsewhere in the country are considered a crime here,`` said Mohammed Sadiq, a truck driver in Mirali.

He said some people have taken to surreptitiously watching television at night, sneaking out in the darkness to erect a TV antenna and taking it down before daylight.

``But we`re afraid,`` Sadiq added.

In the tribal town of Zargari, 80 miles south of Peshawar, Taliban supporters are in firm control. Residents have been ordered to smash their TV sets or sell them to people elsewhere.

Ajab Khan Orakzai, principal of Zargari`s religious school, said harsh punishments are necessary.

``You can check wayward people only through a stick,`` he said. ``Islamic punishments, like chopping hands and feet of criminals as is done in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, are the best way to clean the society.``

The article is well-articulated. However, surprisingly two major components of Pakistan`s future received no attention. One, the mullahs and their increasingly militant inroads into the Pakistani polity and secondly the nuclear bomb. Crude as it might be it is one factor which cannot be discounted in any discussions of future scenarios. My version of Dante`s Inferno is President Qazi Hussain Ahmed with Majid Nizami as the interior minister and Liaqat Baloch carrying the briefcase with the nuclear trigger!! And its not as far-fetched as some of you might think.

Feroz:

DECEPTION OF REGURGITATED LIES

Nice piece.

In a nineteen paragraph article, you touched on the Economy only in the fifteenth. I beg to differ. It is a ‘war’ Economy not ‘aid’ Economy sustained by a ever growing gap between reality and aspirations and an ever shrinking tax base.

(gimme, gimme,gimme, oh yeah, gimme
take away not from me, oh yeah, from me!)

And almost ignored the baton boy’s buckling in to the flowing beards.

You are living in interesting times by that city of Diamond-market-upon-the-Mosque. Who knows, you may survive to write about the Lebanisation and its Aftermath in the next decade.

Keep them pouring in.

regards,

t

PS: I know you won`t mind this. Keep the sentences short. Longer ones become convoluted. Same for paragraphs.

Cry, the beloved `other` country

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0005/27/text/pageone08.html

For Usha Sundar Harris, the coup is the latest in a long line of betrayals.

``It is a generally accepted idea in Pakistan that if those responsible for stealing the national wealth are punished and the looted wealth recovered, it will be the antidote for all of Pakistani financial ills.``

The problem is just not confined to looting from the treasury. We find companies, small, medium and large mugged by crooked government officials. And we are not talking about petty extortion by underpaid inspectors but heavy handed white collar criminal extortion by very well paid bankers from ostensibly ``good`` families. Infact manipulating the environment and government policy is reported to part of a large scale scam to loot companies in trouble with their repayments. One individual, now on ECL and apparently under intensive investigation, is reputed to have walked off with an estimated 400 to 500 million rupees while causing serious damage to his clients and his employers. And lot of this has taken place after Musharraf came to office....

This article could have been one tenth its
length and still could have managed to say what
CHOWK is now quite accustomed to.
By that I mean, get out the razor blades and
commit national suicide! Pakistan is has gone down
the tubes, it is a lost cause, nothing works, we
are going to be finished soon.
Little is said about the simplest of solutions
to our many ailments. That being a focus on treating ALL of our own fellow countrymen with
kindness and respect each other irrespective of ethnic, religious or gender background.
The biggest danger to Pakistan today comes from
its uninvited entry into the Nuclear Club. And
someone please rejuvinate the exact year that this
``failed state`` idea showed up? Does it coincide
with the implementation of Pressler and the time
when the Russians withdrew from Pakistan?
Pakistan will need to make many changes that
the ``World`` is asking it to make. But economic
default will not finish the country (If only
Mahboob ul Haq were alive today...)
So F.R., at the risk of sounding too harsh, the
incredible amount of energy that you have used up
to write this mini-thesis could have been better
used to try and raise some money for the drought
victims of Pakistan (at this very moment).
There are certain rules to this gentlemenly discourse here on CHOWK. ``You do not hit a man
or a country when it is down``.
I was Pakistan`s biggest critic during the
Zia Dictatorship and during 1971. But at that
time nobody would listen because Pakistan had
very powerful friends. Now that it is facing
``High Noon`` alone, let us not all get ready to ride into the sunset with a country that needs
nothing else but a much needed dose of reality.

Ras

Ras Siddiqui #7

I completely, totally and whole heartedly agree with you. There is too much of negetivity about pakistan, it is time to look at some positive aspects. I am still looking for some positive reports, real events in pakistan.

Too much analysis along the beaten track, cheated by the americans, corrupt politicians, jinnahs speach, the 2% theorists, the accident theorists, mullah haters.

Look at the reality, look at the failure to amend blasphemy laws, look at the reports on talibanisation, look at whether the 2% has changed, look at the impossibility of peace with india, look at the terms of the peace agreements- the school books will be changed and the history of pakistan will be changed- look at reality in the face.

Try to push pakistan along the current path. The alleged `great` islamic republic evolving in Iran is the outcome of a Shah followed by Khomeni. You had the Bhutto days, time for the Pervez Musharaff Khomeni. Join the jihadists.

Re: Ras # 7

I was not hitting Pakistan when it was down. I was merely stating a fact of reality, which is not so evident from across the Pacific or Atlantic, but it is from ``ground zero``.

Helping the drought victims is a western ``feel good`` wish, but the GoP is not interested in helping those poor souls and that problem, of a drought, is not a problem in Pakistan anymore, because we are following Dr. Schultz`s advice.

Re: Temporal

Points accepted. The article was not about the economy per se, but it was about the role of the bureaucracy in the affairs of Pakistan and its inability to change for the better. Like you said a long time ago: the whole structure is rotten to the core and it is time to kick it in and start all over again! The intent of the article was to look at the process of devolution of power and not the economy itself.

Re: Jay

Quit being an optimist. It does not suit you!!

Ciao!

Just got a couple of questions:

``...the future of Pakistan rests in the dissatisfied hands of the Pakistani people themselves and it will be their conduct, which will determine, for better or worse, what Pakistan will look like in the next decade...``

What conduct and what actions are required of the Pakistani people, specifically, that will decide Pakistan`s future?

``...the people of Pakistan have to take a decision; self-interest or national interest and on the basis of this decision history will record its final verdict on Pakistan...``

Again, specifically, what constitutes self-interest versus what constitutes national interest in which key decisions that Pakistani people are to make?

``The only question is that the do the Pakistanis know the choices confronting them?``

What are those choices?

Sadhana

Dear Khan,

Your article, basically, is a lengthy recap of what we have been hearing for the past 5 decades.

Democracy: The sacred cow#1- Hardly 30% of the Pakistani population casts votes. Conservative estimates put this percentage down to 20%. It is also a common knowledge how people are dragged down to polling stations to cast votes-the percentage could easily go down to 10%. Why 70% of the population doesn’t care about the political process?

Secularism: Sacred cow #2. If secularism and democracy is marriage made in heaven then why people are still living in India like insects- and I don’t mean just physically. By now, they should have been as well off as Chinese, if not better, at least monetarily. (Please look beyond the Barbie world presented in Indian Movies and MTV)

Religion: Sacred Cow #3 and also the Scapegoat# 1 (in Pakistani context). So far it has been an excellent tool for exploiting masses. Have you ever wondered why people after being cheated time and again throughout the history of Pakistan still put religion ahead of everything? There are two possibilities. The first possibility is that people are stupid. The second possibility is that, may be they understand the difference and they are absolutely convinced that the religion is the only way to bring social justice into the society. (This is a question not a statement).

The keyword is SOCIAL JUSTICE. Nobody talks about it; even if they do it’s mentioned as a non-issue. No system of governance can be successful unless it delivers the Social Justice and I don’t mean just the distribution of wealth-there should be social justice in law and order, economics, and governance as well. It means that lawmakers make laws that are equally applicable to the President of the country and to the most downtrodden in the society. Lawmakers not only make absolutely sure that the law is enforced properly, but they also device ways to close all the holes in it. When you see people getting excited about the ``Talibanian`` mode of imparting justice, its not that they get some sort of gratification for their psychotic inner selves-it is the philosophy behind it, that is, Social Justice. (The last sentence is also a question not a statement).

[borrowed]From South Asia Citizens Web May 31, 2000

Saw it. Thought it might inyerest some.

[ The below message from ... . (a Peace activist from Pakistan) explains the Peace Banner campaign; Recently such banners for peace and in opposition to Nuclear bombs were made and put up in Pakistan to mark the 2nd anniversary of the Pakistani Nuclear tests (may 98).

Cloth Banner Campaign for the 6th August

Dear All,

This is a follow up msg. I`m sending this msg to friends in Pakistan and India (and to overseas Indo-Pak friends). Clothe banner campaign was a huge success despite the fact that we started it on the 11th May and collected signatures till 28th May. Diversity of messages, colours and languages made it into such an interesting cloth banner spread over more than 100 meters.

Thanks to friends in Karachi (Piler), Lahore (Shirkat Gah, Labour Party, Amnesty International, Peshawar (Sungi), Quetta (Naela Qadri) and all

others Islamabad based NGOs and students at the Khuldunia High School, Quaid-iAzam University and the Hamdard University. Messages from Quetta were

particularly touching with young school children printing their hands and painting wonderful things on the clothe. Needless to say, Dr. Nayyar`s and

Shandana`s contributions made a crucial difference.

I have received some banners after the 28th May. It gives a sense that we should continue this campaign. I would suggest the following:

1) we should keep on getting signatures in Pakistan. Pakistan NGO Federation can play a crucial role in this regard. If we are able to get signatures from various rural and urban communities with which most NGOs work, it would

be a massive contribution to the campaign.

2) various peace groups in India should initiate this campaign over there.

I`ll explain the details for our Indian friends.

a) divide the white clothe into one meter @ one meter square pieces.

b) write one liner main msg for peace (bread not bombs etc.) with a bold marker in the middle.

c) ask people to write their messages for peace (or against nuclear weapons), names, signatures and date around the main message.

d) if possible please use bold pens of various colours (some of the pieces of clothe were signed by ballpoint pen and they were not readable) and the messages should be spread out on the piece of clothe.

e) by 1st august, those pieces of cloth should be stitched together and after every three-four pieces, extra clothe should be added to create space for a bamboo stick,

f) once all the clothe pieces are stitched together, then insert 7 feet long (half inch diameter) bamboo sticks just before the demonstration. These sticks will hold the banner.

3) overseas friends can mail the banners to groups in India and Pakistan.

If that`s not feasible then they can send email messages and we can paste email print outs on our banners.

What Do We Do With These Banners?

I would suggest we should use them as a vote of no confidence against nuclear weapons by the subcontinent`s silent majority. We should organise a huge press publicity campaign to spread the msg of these banners across to the decision-makers and war mongers in India and Pakistan. Right now i can

think of 2 options:

[i] Peace groups in India and Pakistan can march to Wagha border and demonstrate these hundreds of meter long banner with signatures for peace on

the both side of the border,

[ii] If that`s not a feasible option and people want to consider a more local way to display these signatures, then we can go and symbolically wrap the important government building in each city with these long banners. For example, if we get enough signatures in Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Quetta and Peshawar to make a banner in each city, the we can walk to the President`s House in Islamabad and the governor houses in the respective provinces to mark the day. Indian groups can do the same in their cities.

Please pass on this message to all the people on your mailing lists.

NUCLEAR TRIGGERS AND RELIGIOUS MANIACS:

The concerns about religious maniacs acquiring weapons of mass destruction in a society like this are genuine. Having said that we must understand the chances of some splinter group in Europe or North America doing it will always remain and their access the nuts and bolts may be easier than in a third world backwater. What about the hair raising possibility of a mad life sciences going crazy and trying to invent a virus that goes after specific races..

Once again I draw the attention of the Chowkwalas to the fact that a rotten environment of alienation is being created in Pakistan that will make all of the above a possibility. We have crooked bankers trying to bankrupt companies for personal and crooked bureaucrats detrailing reform. A million people unemployed and a marginal standard of living worsened as a result of the IMF prescriptions is as dangerous as having fissile material at the hands of a sophisticated terrorist group...

Dear Observer:

Here you are contradicting yourself from your earlier post when we encouraged Mohajir to post the useful sites. However, your contradiction is more than welcome. This is just a wondeful news that many of us were waiting for. Is the light at the end of tunnel really? I will forward this mail to who I can.

Thanks for your contradiction.

cheraym

Ref Urstruly #: 11

You asked ``If secularism and democracy is marriage made in heaven then why people are still living in India like insects- and I don’t mean just physically. By now, they should have been as well off as Chinese, if not better, at least monetarily.``

Excuse me, the people of India are not living like insects. They have clearly demonstrated a backbone and an independent mind. Indira Gandhi, hailed as Goddess Durga in Dec 1971 was overthrown and lost her own seat in 1977. Rajiv Gandhi elected with an overwhelming majority lost the parliamentary majority in the next election. That tale has been repeated in every state of the Indian Union.

Contrarywise, the Chinese are the insects who have meekly accepted one-party rule for the last 52 years with no hope of ever overthrowing the Communists. If you were born in Tibet or Sinkiang, you would not care for the per capita income which is skewed by the wealth of coastal southern China.

I know your current hero is China. Why don`t you move to rural China (particularly the mountainous states with poor soil) and find out how the peasants eke out a living?

The last time a Chinese-style slum clearance was undertaken in India was by Sanjay Gandhi in 1978. The result was the unseating of the Congress party in the next election. Nor do Indian women queue up to open their wombs for abortion in the 9th month, as is happening in China.

If you guys in Pakistan follow the Chinese policy on birth control, your population growth will also drop.

Jesus, don`t you even know what is happening around you?

Re: Urstruly # 11

Granted, the article is a rcap of the last 50 yrs, but what have we done or accomplished in the last 50 yrs we could be proud of ?

Nothing; nichts; nada; zilch; zero; and still nyet!!!! The article basically was premised on the notion that nothing happens in Pakistan or will ever happen in the future, because of a lack of implementation.

Social justice?!!! By whom for whom? Social justice has a nice ring to it, but in a society like Pakistan`s where the civic society has disappeared altogether, it would be impossible to achieve it, because again, who is going to implement or enforce its provisions? Urstruly, I admire your (misguided) passion for Pakistan, but before you start thinking ahead to a vision of an utopian bliss in Pakistan; just remember one thing. There are no insititutions in Pakistan to implement any ideals of social justice and for that we have to rebuild our civic culture and base it on the notions of tolerance and plurality of opinions and not on a justice based on the whims of an AK-47.

Urstruly, if you can tell me how social justice is going to be implemented in Pakistan, I will support you for the office of the Prime Minister, located in that brothel by the hills!

Re: Sadna # 10

The questions you have asked can only be answered by the Pakistanis if, a big if at that too, they develop a national identity. In Pakistan, people value their provincial ties first, their religious sects second and their country lastly. Unless Pakistanis become Pakistanis first, this country will always be riven by an internal discord, which will undermine its very foundations.

Pakistanis, as Jay rightly pointed out, are unwilling to look reality in the face and still think, like Ras admonished me, that Pakistan has no problems. In many ways, I think that Ras is correct in the sense that though Pakistan may not be a ``failed state``, it is beyond a shadow of a doubt a dysfunctional state, because of its so many internal contradications, it can not clearly articulate a vision of its own raison d`etre and because of that confusion, nothing ever gets done or implemented here with the result that the country is caught up in a timewarp and still exists in the past and that past is all it has, because the future is gradually slipping away as we debate, decide, announce, declare, and promise to move Pakistan forward!

We are stilling dancing the Pakistani Waltz; two steps forward, two steps backwards, a step to right and a step to left and the result is that we keep standing in one spot though we give the illushion of moving! This government announces, it back tracks, it vacilliates and it remains undecided. Has the country moved, in any direction, in the last eight months? Yes, it has: backwards!!!

My late father used to say, in the early 1980s, that Pakistan would end up like Lebanon and my grandfather used to say, in the 1960s, that we are going to be another Afghanistan: tribal, anarchic, and lawless. I used to scoff at their words and now I wish that I had listened to them!

Sadna, the patient is terminal and he needs to be removed from the life support; the plug really needs to be pulled, because a quick death is better than a lingering death!!!!!!!

Ciao!

I agree with the gist of your article and appreciate your time and efforts in putting together a detailed article dealing with the internal contradictions between the most powerful elements with each looking after their own vested interests.

In my opinion, the situation is even more complex than a simple case of competing-collaborating military-bureaucracy-feudals troika. There are actually two troika working simultaneously, the other being military-traders-Islamists.

The traders generally being conservative, have historically sided with the Islamists. The recent appeasing attitude of the military towards Islamists is a compensation for their deteriorating relationship with the traders. In the past, miltary being the commom denominator simultaneously in two troikas, have more often played the role of a middle-man instead of a bridge. They have frequently pitted one against the other for their own interests and seldom played the role of a fire extinguisher. That is the reason, both BB and NS were absolutely helpless in controlling sectarian violence, drugs smuggling and gun culture because same groups were also fighting for the ``strategic interests of Pakistan in Afghanistan and Kashmir (as defined by the military)``. Well, if you can not fight them; join them for the safeguards of your vested interests. That is why most feudals and other groups have more often sided with the military establishment than opposing them.

The notion of devolution of power under military establishment is self-contradictory. I do not doubt much about Pervez Musharraf`s personal integrity or desires but he represents an institution more than himself. He is not going to play the role of Gorbachov or F. W. deClerk, to undermine his own power base. Two possible scenario which maight emerge from devolution of power are: 1) Elections in 2 1/2 years on non-party basis. This was tried before by Zia and resulted in the most feudal parliament in the history of Pakistan. Instead of few horse trading all 212 members were up for horse trading. It is the worse of all possible devolutions. 2) More importantly, if devolution results in independent minded, honest and sincere representative government which does not play the role of second fiddle to various vested interests is a disaster for military establishment. What if they chose to be dovish vis-a-vis relationship with India? Actually, any sincere government would be more tuned to easing tension with India for the sake of peace and prosperity of Pakistanis. What if they want to pull the plug from Afghanistan and Kashmir adventures?

Bureaucracy runs the country, politicians and military don`t. I believe that going after the bureaucracy is more of a public relation ploy than anything else. Removing one set of bureaucrat and replacing with another is nothing new.

The solution to Pakistan`s problems lie in the dismantling of the powers of all elite groups simultaneously. A selective destruction of one by the other is no solution.

RE: FerozK, Reply # 16

Implementation of Social Justice in Pakistan- lets see-there are several ways to look at this issue.

1) Pakistani people do not need or do not deserve social justice-end of story

2) Pakistani people need social justice but since we don’t know a way, therefore the way does not exist.

3) Pakistani people need social justice since we do not know a way, we must work together to find a way

Take your pick.

The people who are gifted with the power of reasoning and knowledge, like yourself, spend all their time thinking how a thing can NOT be done. If you spend half the time thinking how it CAN be done, it will be done.

May be our way of thinking is incorrect. We assume that we can implement or achieve anything through Establishment. Have you ever thought that the very Establishment is responsible for denying Social Justice in the society? An upper echelon of society has vested interests in that and by implementing Social Justice they will have to give up all their self-assumed ``privileges``.

It is true that we can never achieve a Utopian dream but if we don’t know where we are going we sure will never get there.

Ferozek:#16

Sorry to disappoint you Dr.Kevorkian,it is your job which is on line.

Pakistan is boisterous,joyous,full of energy and kick & screaming and is poised to assert what it is supposed to be.The 5% Ba Ba Blacksheep are not a reflection of Pakistan and the bleatings of such is a sign that the lions sniffing too close.

__________________________________________________

The religion of Hindus is the land.Do not let any --ism fool you.Conquerers & invaders do not bother them.They adjust.Their caste system is in their psyche & language,therefore they are willing to co-operate & co-opt any alien creed simply to survive on their land---the other alternative is to cease to be hindus or be a closet hindu.This is evident aplenty in farangi-lands.

Crossing Indian rivers & oceans is going to nirgh for them.The miniscule few Ba Ba Blacksheep who disavow this & still claim to be the mickey-mouse version of hinduism have every right to be apologetic & embarrassed.

I am happy that with all its `faults` Pakistan is not meek & dormant and therefore never cowed down.

__________________________________________________

``If Hindus adopt the concept of socialism,they

would cease to be hindus,but if muslims do so then they will be returning to the true teachings of Islam``

A L L A M A IQBAL

(from memory ---------words may not be exact)

__________________________________________________wassalaam

RE: Gymnosophist Reply # 15

I apologize if I have offended you with my harsh choice of words- my mistake.

Beside my inherent prejudices, being a Pakistani, common sense and logic do not suggest that India is a model state to follow. I am sorry to say but 52 years of democracy and secularism has only changed the color of ruling class from white to brown. The system of exploitation and social injustice are still alive and well. (Please subtract Kashmir and caste system from my statement). Bureaucracy still preys on an ordinary Hindustani (regardless of caste). Police treats masses as herds of cows. Politicians are evasive on the issues of Social Justice. The list is never ending.

Sounds like a story of my (Pakistan`s) life eh? I hate to say that but unfortunately I have to say it, ``Anything but India – Thank you very much``.

Regards

Ferozk #16

Thanks for your response.

``The questions you have asked can only be answered by the Pakistanis if, a big if at that too, they develop a national identity.``

Ferozk, I`m assuming you are a Pakistani too? So, as a Pakistani, you could undertake to answer :-):

What conduct and what actions are required of the Pakistani people, specifically, that will decide Pakistan`s future?

Make up plenty delegations to go meet Gen PM? Demand daily press conferences? Make a human chain from Karachi to NWFP(?)? Give up a months salary toward the exchequer? Organise multi-religious/multi-sect gatherings? Campaign for surrender of arms? Organise folk festivals? Go on `aamaran anshan`(fast-unto-death)? Organise `bhoo-daan` and `shram-daan`? Hold a `unity-shanti-yagna` (tauba-tauba, but TOT from across the border is possible :-))

Leaving frivolity aside, though, it would be interesting to understand practical measures?

Sadhana

RE: Sadhna Reply# 21

Thanks for challenging the spirit of Pakistan. Lets see what our analysts, thinkers, activists, and writers have to say.

The Muslim discrimination is a fantasy

Omar Khalidi

http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990825/iex2

5059p.html

Most Pakistanis think that Muslims in India are discriminated. Here`s an article which says much about it.

Every so often one hears of discrimination against Indian Muslims in state employment, particularly with regards to civil service, police and the armed forces. Around election time, ``minority cells`` of all political parties surface through the newspapers demanding ``justice`` and fair treatment to the minorities by the Indian state. Is there real discrimination against Muslims just because they are Muslims? Can the alleged discrimination be established in a court of law? Or is this merely a case of fantasy versus reality?

More on Omar Khalidi

Omar Khalidi an Islamic Studies scholar at Massachusetts Institute of Technology on a Agha Khan scholarship.Email: okhalidi@MIT.EDU http://libraries.mit.edu/people/okhalidi.html

Ref Urstruly #20:

Regarding the inheritance and continuation of the British-Indian civil service and its callous disregard for the common people of India, I have no quibbles with the harsh characterization of that system.

However, glimmers of change are beginning to emerge. Here is one such change. You can also look at Chandrababu Naidu`s determination to change the bureaucracy in Andhra. You might want to visit a Ney York Times article on the internet`s reach into India`s villages. I posted the reference to that article on the board ``A Nation of Beggars``.

I am touched to the quick only by any assertion that democracy is not good for developing countries. I suggest you come to India and ask the common man what he thinks of the need to hold elections and then proclaim ``the truth`` from the rooftops. (Ignore the middle-class. They are all closet fascists.)

`Freed` panchayats change Kerala landscape

By Chandrika Mago

The Times of India News Service

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: A local labour bank guaranteeing 20 days of employment to the jobless. A panchayat with all its data computerised and its 70-year-old president who spends 10 minutes each day on the new-fangled machine. Children`s sabhas reporting to a gram panchayat on teachers who smoke, drink and gossip the whole day and on parents who drink and get violent. It`s all happening in Kerala, where a ``bold`` experiment of decentralisation seems to be taking root.

In 1996, without waiting for a legal and administrative framework, the ruling Left Democratic Front devolved financial powers to local bodies, giving them up to 40 per cent of the state`s annual Plan - about Rs 1,000 crore - as ``untied grants-in-aid`` and ``pure development fund`` for roads, houses, buildings, sanitation, water, and more.

Local bodies` revenues rose, on an average, from Rs 7 lakh to Rs 45 lakh. Panchayats were trained to prepare plans, projects and strategies, and decide priorities, people learning slowly to take charge.

Last week, it was time to take stock as the state gets set to institutionalise the process. And - says T M Thomas Isaac, state planning board member and the ``miracle man`` behind the plan implementation - ready for a crucial transition as panchayat elections near (October).

This, broadly, is how it works: Each of about 1,200 local bodies, nearly a thousand of them panchayats, sets up nearly a dozen task forces, each for a different sector. A general body meeting discusses plans they come up with.

The selected plans go to block expert committees for technical sanction and then to district planning boards. From there, it`s back to panchayats. Committees of beneficiaries are formed to build, or contribute to, and monitor projects. The process of planning is as significant as the outcome - participation, accountability and transparency being the key principles.

There are four musts in all this: 40 per cent of the money should be for production, employment and income-generation schemes. Of the rest, half for the social sector and the rest for infrastructure. At least 10 per cent of the whole plan is for projects directly benefiting women.

The difference has begun showing. Perhaps the most visible change, says a zoology professor and one of many volunteers, is the empowerment of women, ``their courage to stand up and speak.``

Figures say it all: 6,000 houses were built in the first three years of the Eighth Plan for the SCs and STs; the figure has risen to 48,000 in the Ninth Plan. No extra money; the change is in the performance.

But the structure is still taking shape - performance audits, public scrutiny, an ``ombudsman`` body of judges, public men and officials. And there are instances of non-performance and corruption, a need to improve the quality of participation and of projects - many are still ``rehashed`` versions of departmental programmes. One thorny issue is ``redeployment`` of staff from departments to panchayats - and resistance from politicians and bureaucrats unwilling to relinquish control.

The official estimates indicate how long the road ahead is: One-fifth of the local bodies have done well, an equal number haven`t. ``The rest are neither here nor there. The struggle over the coming years is to win over this group.``

In response to Ferozk (Reply # 16)

Dear Feroz:

Thank you for another good/interesting article. I think, a good article becomes better only when its readers develop a reasonable critique of it. A good critique needs to be informed by a vision that is grounded in ideals/values as well as ground realities. I wonder if Pakistani people generally lack such a vision.

Your present response to Urstruly and Sadna reflects your utter, though somewhat premature, hopelessness regarding Pakistan and its problems. Please consider the following points:

First, you maintain that “nothing happens in Pakistan or will happen in the future, because of implementation.” What is the basis your argument? Do you really mean it?

Second, you link the issue of social justice to a lack of civil society (including the institutions), deplore the unjust culture of AK-47, and identify the need to rebuild civic culture. I agree that the issue of social justice is very complex. Social justice is a notion/condition that is actually sensed, desired, and struggled for. A politics of acquiescence generally creates a crisis of state legitimacy and any top-down attempt to reform removes some minor hurdles for the re-establishment of status quo. Social transformation requires, I believe, an active participation of the common people over a long time period.

Third, you seem to suggest that “a” person (Urstruly or otherwise) with some ideas for the implementation of social justice would be acceptable to you as the Prime Minister of Pakistan. I see some problem here. I believe, you are still working within a top-down political mode where the common people play (or allowed to play) a negligible role.

Fourth, with reference to the question of national identity, you state that the people in Pakistan “value their provincial ties first, their religious sects second and their country lastly. Unless Pakistanis become Pakistanis first, this country will always be riven by an internal discord, which will undermine its very foundations.” The centralized state of Pakistan has tried to vaguely impose a sense of national identity without adequately addressing the problems of everyday life in most parts of Pakistan. A sense of belonging is often constructed naturally/organically. In view of an uneven politics of scarcity and existing dominant/subordinate social relations, we cannot expect the people to behave other than what they normally have done within various social and spatio-temporal contexts. Do you realize that our assessments of a collective sense of belonging are often based upon our limited experiences?

Fifth, you argue that Pakistan (and Pakistanis) cannot “articulate a vision of its own raison d’etre” because of internal contradictions/confusions. Hence, “nothing ever gets done or implemented here with the result that the country is caught up in a timewarp and still exists in the past and that past is all it has . . . .” All countries in the world are embroiled in some kind of internal contradictions/confusions. It seems that you are inadvertently trying to impose a predominantly Eurocentric conception of nationalism upon a non-European multicultural society. We, however, need to rethink our dominant national discourse and try to figure out how and why “the future is gradually slipping away as we debate, decide, announce, declare, and promise to move Pakistan forward.”

Sixth, you argue that we have moved backwards during the past eight month. If so, we need to understand why the army and the so-called experts have failed so miserably. Maybe the army lacks the capacity to bring necessary change? Maybe the army itself has become a major part of the problem? Maybe there are some additional structural problems too? Maybe there is a need to search for some alternative ways of looking at our problems? Maybe we need to use a common sense to come to grips with our difficulties?

Seventh, and finally, how do you propose to remove the life-support apparatus for the ultimate death of Pakistan? Please explain.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

#: 14

cheraym

Dear Observer:

Here you are contradicting yourself from your earlier post when we encouraged Mohajir to post the useful sites... .

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

May-31-00 9:56:8 EST Reply #: 70

[From the board `Where did Pakistan go Wrong?`]

Observer

Re. Cheraym #68

URLs are enough. We don`t need both the URL //AND// the reproduction. It is redundant. ... .``

Dear Madam: Do you really see a contradiction?

Sincerely,

Observer

Following is an abstract from Dr.Mubashir Hasan`s article ``Refining the devolution plan-III: Restoring trust between state and the people`` published in The Dawn on 26-May-2000.

``The chief implementer of the policies of controlling the people and maintaining the status quo of the rule of the establishment over them (people of Pakistan) is the deputy commissioner of a district who also exercises the awesome powers of the district magistrate and the collector. The deputy commissioner has at his command almost the total power of a sovereign except that over the military and of issuing his own transfer orders.

To control the people, to rule over them, in other words to maintain law and order, the colonial state in Pakistan acts as a great subverter of people`s collective power. It is a state which feels totally insecure against its people. Nothing has weakened, indeed, disintegrated the social and political fabric of the country more than this rivalry between the colonial state and the people``

Interesting, and relevant to our discussion here.

Sadhna,

Perhaps “Deputy Commissioner Nahin Chaaheeyay” rally would be a good start :)

Ref fairdinkum #: 27

You quote {The chief implementer of the policies of controlling the people and maintaining the status quo of the rule of the establishment over

them (people of Pakistan) is the deputy commissioner of a district who also exercises the awesome powers of the district magistrate and the collector.}

One of the first things done in India was the separation of the executive from the judiciary. Thus, the district collector (or commissioner, depending on the province/state, the title varied) is no longer a magistrate and when you file a lawsuit against the executive authorities, it is heard by an independent judiciary.

Dear Bilal (re.#25)

Your thoughts on social justice and how it may be achieved were insightful. I think it fait to say that a constant strain of your arguments here has been that ``Social transformation requires... an active participation of the common people over a long time period.``

This rings true. At the same time, though, you seem to suggest that any reliance on ``a`` person as (principal) agent-of-change will only serve to perpetuate the status quo. As I see it, this is the main point of divergence between yours and Feroz`s viewpoints.

Bilal, don`t you think that if we look for historical precednets of transfer of power to the people, more often than not, we find inspirational (or just plain pragmatic) individuals central to the political shift. Attaturk is the most commonly cited such doyen. But why look beyond the sub-continent? We have Gandhi, Jinnah, and Nehru (readers may add to this list) -- mere individuals, yet personas without which there specter of freedom (from whatever/whomever) would`ve always remained distant. Bhutto is another such person who, even if he didn`t deliver, certainly was in a position to effect change that would ensure good devolution of power to the masses. Nehru, in implementing land reforms early on in India`s statehood, I think provided the crucial shift in balance of power that has never occured in Pakistan. Ironically, in doing so, he had to look beyond mere political expediency, something Pakistani democratic rulers cannot seem to get themselves to do.

Fifty-two years of musical chairs between bad democracy and equally visionless dictatorship has produced a nation that I think, feel is not capable of pulling itself up by it`s bootstraps. Ironically, it would take either a charismatic or hard-nosed, pragmatic leader (with all the dangers therein) or hitting rock bottom (economically or in the form of a militant religionist `takeover`) to shake the common man up out of a complacency make him start speaking with his feet.

Although I don`t share Ferozk`s pessimism (then again, I might be one of those delusional, complacent, fools), and agree that many states suffer lack-of-identidy problems, I do feel that Pakistan`s case is more acute, what with the bayonets of a bellicose `brotherhood` moving ever closer to blood-thirsty bureacracy, while the while the bonded and the bourgeois alike find their crumbs quickly dwindling, yet dare not, or simply will not, demand their fair share.

Bilal, in such a setting of complacency, where do you see the change being affected, realisitically, if not from the top? (at least in the short run)

Would appreciate some practicable suggestions.

regards,

PM

fairdinkum #27

Wrt district administration in India, from my incomplete knowledge, there are generally three elements, the rep of the state government ie. the district collector, the local legislative machinery or municipal corporators or village councils, and sometimes some NGOs.

From what I can gather, the district collector, while exercising dicretionery powers in areas of responsibility like law and order, government acquisitions of land, exercise of development funds, etc, is also generally responsible for monitoring government schemes.

He is held in check a. by central audit of all financial transactions b. by political leaders/press for corruption/law and order c. other internal checks and balances I am not very aware of.

Its still possible for a DC to be pandering to local political masters in office who have the power of making his life miserable through transfers and confidential reports. It is also possible for the DC to be doing hera-pheri in awarding contracts or other financial transactions, or shielding criminals.

However, his post is just not dispensable at present, in my opinion. There is no other stable backbone for information-gathering, monitoring, and implementing government policy at present.

Obviously when local governments get more and more power, financial and otherwise, and become more effective and less corrupt, the role of the DC may get more and more redundant, but not yet. I think its still an advantage for the state governments to have eyes and ears of a highly educated and well-trained functionary in the more backward districts.

The districts where local government has really succeeded(and drives like literacy drives) has been so far where all three entities I mentioned( the District collector, the local politicians and the cooperative organisations) have supplemented each others efforts. The DC generally facilitates and monitors activities of village councils, disbursement of development funds, he and NGOs also get involved in training programmes for local government and obviously the local politicians/populace have to be encouraged by both to be involved.

If you look at ``Panchayati Raj`` sites on the web, you will see the well-planned and structured training programs that the govt. has consciously planned(but is unable to implement everywhere, thats where NGOs can come in).

These may be of interest:

1. The Civil Service In Transition

by B. K. Nehru

http://www.indiastar.com/nehru.html

2. Rural women demand better work by district administration

http://members.tripod.com/sdnp_india/gender/news/toi-28-6-ruralwomen.html

Sadhana

In response to PM (Reply # 30)

Dear Patrick:

I see society (social relations) as a product of a complex interplay of agency and structure. I don`t deny the role of agents. Of course, one could easily identify the role of a good number of individuals who have made a significant dent upon the course of human history.

The notion of the duality of agency and structure (a la Marx) rests upon the view that, once human actions lead to the establishment of structures (through a long and complex process), structures are inherently difficult to transform.

In Pakistan, a certain set of social relations are deeply structured. One good example is the police bhutta. Another similar practice is bribery (or money for Mithiayee, as they call it). A third example is the use of connections (in conjunction with bribery) to seek lucrutive employment. A fourth example is the practice of subcontracting (or constrained subcontracting) for the purchase of goods and services (particularly the purchase of arms and ammunition from the foreign markets). All these examples are nothing but exploitative, at least. How could we transform these practices and the structures associated with them? I would argue, as you have rightly noted, through the empowerment of the people of Pakistan. If Pakistan wants to get out of its quagmire, it needs to start a process of slow, gradual, and uninterrupted social change based upon a vision and a social contract that is generally supported by the people of Pakistan. In my view, a first step in this direction would be to foster a national discourse that prioritizes the principles/values of freedom, justice, and peaceful coexistence. A second related step would be the instutionalization of respect for the citizenship and human rights of all people in every part of Pakistan.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. Please let me know if my response has failed to answer your concerns adequately.

Beyond talking tough on terrorism

Christian Science Monitor

http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/06/05/fp9s2-csm.shtml

Dear Bilal,

I fully agree with your basic thesis that Pakistan needs to ``foster a national discourse that prioritizes the principles/values of freedom, justice, and peaceful coexistence [and that a] second related step would be the instutionalization of respect for the citizenship and human rights of all people in every part of Pakistan.`` I am even willing to reluctantly agree that (as I think you suggest) the way out of the quagmire will necessarily be a slow, gradual one.

However, given my (admittedly possibly naive) understanding of political realities on the ``ground-level`` (lack of infrastructure, and lack of will on the part of even the `cheated` public to change these realities), I cannot help but wonder who/what the agents will be ``to foster the new discourse``. If it is to be an elected govenrment, then it seems to me to be so much of wishful thinking. History certainly is not on the side of suppporting such change.

The second step would could only ever follow the first, realistically speaking and can be dealt with once the first hurdle is crossed.

My question, I guess, is this: Paradoxical as it may seem, may not the only agent/s to foster a discourse on peaceful, justice etc., be a (temporary) dictator (not necassarily an army General)?

What are the alternatives, realistically speaking (say, keeping in mind Prof. Ghulam`s (?) assessment of the Pakistani people, and the pervasiveness of hoplessness, cynicism and therefore selfishness)?

best regards,

PM

In response to PM (Reply # 34)

Dear Patrick:

Let me begin with a clarification. A slow, gradual, and uninterrupted process of social change must be based on a master plan that is constructed (and reconstructed) discursively.

Your ask: Who/what the agents will be to foster the new course? In my view, all of us. I and you and all others who are interested in the future of our coming generations. I don`t expect the ruling elite to volunteer their services, unless we play our roles. Democracy cannot be established unless we (the people) become a part of the democratic process. Our rights cannot be respected unless we (the people) decide to protect them. A sense of social justice cannot be institutionalized unless we (the people) struggle for it. However, in any society, only a few people start a struggle while the others simply follow/support them.

What are we doing on this board? I argue that we are discursively trying to figure out the nuts and bolts of our (alternative) national discourse. Our effort on the Chowk is simply to develop a sense of collective consciousness. The more we engage in such efforts the more clear we may become over time.

Are we powerless? Yes, apparently. We, however, will remain powerless (apparently or otherwise) as long as we allow the ruling elite to usurp our rights. In a democratic political system, the source of power are the people, nothing but the people. An effective use of such power depends essentially upon the recognition of the power of ``we the people.`` In my view, the Pakistani state is an essentially neocolonial state. Realistically, I am not sympathetic to the notion of a benevolent dictator. Too much power simply corrupts. The pervasiveness of hoplessness, cynicism, and selfishness are a product of the social relations of our neocolonial state structues and a (re)colonized people and civil society. To effectively reduce these problems, we need to foster ``an alternative national discourse`` and educate our people for the much needed social change. We, the people of Pakistan, are the agent of social transformation in Pakistan (though our task is not at all easy).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Dear Bilal,

Read and appreciated your last reply. Thank you.

Patrick

Government Rhetoric and Social Change

In his opinion piece ``The numbers game,`` Dr. Muzaffar Iqbal concludes: ``Those who are playing the numbers game must know that years of empty rhetoric has taught Pakistanis at least one lesson: mere rhetoric is not going to transform their lives. They know well that these promises are not going bear anything. Pakistanis have been cheated, stung and deprived of their legitimate rights so many times that they do not believe in anything anymore, much less the fantasies of a magical rise in country`s GDP merely ``through high value addition of goods and import substitution.````

For details, please see:

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jun2000-daily/10-06-2000/oped/o3.htm

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Government Rhetoric and Social Change

In his opinion piece ``The numbers game,`` Dr. Muzaffar Iqbal concludes: ``Those who are playing the numbers game must know that years of empty rhetoric has taught Pakistanis at least one lesson: mere rhetoric is not going to transform their lives. They know well that these promises are not going bear anything. Pakistanis have been cheated, stung and deprived of their legitimate rights so many times that they do not believe in anything anymore, much less the fantasies of a magical rise in country`s GDP merely ``through high value addition of goods and import substitution.````

For details, please see:

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jun2000-daily/10-06-2000/oped/o3.htm

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Creation of Pakistan on the basis of `Two-Nation theory` (TNT) was wrong.

http://www.dawn.com/2000/06/22/top15.htm

Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) chief Altaf Hussain has said that the creation of Bangladesh in 1971 proves that the Two-Nation Theory of Pakistan`s founders was a ``farce`` and ``it was the biggest fraud played with the Muslims of India.``

``Events after the creation of Pakistan have proved that it was a wrong theory,`` he said, adding that if the theory was correct, he would be convinced only when the government agreed to open borders and allow Indian Muslims to settle in Pakistan and repatriated stranded Pakistanis living in Bangladeshi camps.

Talking to a delegation of intellectuals and professors from the Sub-continent, which visited the MQM International Secretariat, Mr Hussain claimed that history had proved that the Two-Nation Theory was wrong.

No name of the delegation members, or from which city they had come, was mentioned in a press release issued on Wednesday from the MQM International Secretariat.

Saying that there was no future of Pakistan, which was disintegrated in 1971 and whose remaining part is ``on the verge of catastrophe,`` the MQM chief said that East Bengal was the first to support the creation of Pakistan based on the Two-Nation Theory.

But the same part rectified its mistake by separating itself in 1971 thus ``proving that the theory was a farce``.

He said the supporters of the theory were now asking the stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh to opt for Bangladeshi citizenship or settle in any Muslim country instead of inviting them back to Pakistan.

``On what ideological basis are you offering such an advice to the stranded Pakistanis? Does this advice relate to the concept of the Two-Nation Theory or does it negate the very concept?,`` he asked.

He said that if we analyse the history of the Pakistan Movement, it emerged that virtually all Muslim majority provinces of the present-day Pakistan had opposed the creation of Pakistan. He said only the Sindh Assembly had supported the creation of Pakistan and that too with a majority of only one vote.

Mr Hussain said that all those who had supported the concept of the Two-Nation Theory and Pakistan, including Mr GM Syed, had been labelled as ``traitors`` in Pakistan.

``Mr Fazl-i-Haq, the Lion of Bengal, who had presented the Pakistan Resolution, was labelled as a ``traitor,`` the Sindhis were labelled as ``traitors``, the Balochs were labelled as ``traitors``; and now the Mohajirs have also been labelled as ``traitors,`` he said.

The MQM chief said that the Pakistan army had forced the people of East Pakistan to separate by carrying out their massacre in 1970 and raping their women. Similarly, he said, the army had marched against Balochs and Sindhis and now it had been targeting Mohajirs for last eight years.

``The army operation against Mohajirs, which commenced on June 19, 1992, was also a negation of the Two-Nation Theory,`` he said.

Mr Hussain also said that the formation of a nation on the basis of religion was fundamentally wrong because if the religion was the basis for nationhood then more than 45 independent and sovereign Muslim states would not have been the members of the United Nations as separate and independent states.

He said though it was claimed that Pakistan was being created for 100 million Muslims of India, it became the homeland of Muslims of the Muslim majority provinces only.

``Today, if we compare the population of Muslims living in Pakistan with that of the Muslims living in India then we see that the population of Muslims in India is much more than the total Muslim population of Pakistan.

It means that the Two-Nation Theory has failed to provide protection and security to the majority of Muslims of the Sub-continent because the number of Muslims living in India is greater than the total Muslims of Pakistan,`` he said. ``If the Muslims of India were to remain under the Hindu majority then why were they taught the doctrine of the Pakistan Movement and the Two-Nation Theory,?`` he asked.